Odd option on LS6 Chevelle

[Don_Lightfoot]

I posted this on Team Chevelle a couple of years ago, but thought it would be interesting to repost on here for some input.

A local car buddy is the second owner of his LS6 that he purchased in 1973. He has GM Canada Vintage Services letter from April 25, 1994 which shows the following option:

GV2 3.08 Rear Ratio.

This was relayed to me on the phone back then so perhaps he read it wrong or I wrote it down wrong. Maybe an error from GM Canada in their notification http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

My understanding is they came standard with 3.31 with the only available option 4.10. I know in 1969 (perhaps other years as well) you could option down to an "economy" axle. Was this a possibility? Special order maybe? Comments appreciated.

[SS427]

Don, I have only ever seen the 3:31 open (CRU), 3:31 posi (CRV) and 4:10 posi (CRW) in these cars and that is after researching literally hundreds of cars. Not to say that it could not happen but I seriously doubt it. All three of the above rearends were designated 454 rear ends and I know of no special 454 designated 3:08 rear codes nor can I imagine why GM would put an "economy" rear behind a solid lifter 450 hp engine in the first place. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[PeteLeathersac]

Regardless of what the GM Canada paperwork notes, do you know what rear is actually in the car...if the original?.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
~ Pete

--------------------
I like real cars best...the REAL real ones!

[Don_Lightfoot]

I certainly can’t disagree with your comments Rick.

Here’s the story on the gears Pete. Shortly after purchase he removed the carrier and gears and replaced them with a new carrier and 4.10’s. He apparently still has the original parts stashed somewhere. Like a lot of us at this age, his memory from 35 years ago isn’t the best, but he seems to think the removed gears were 3.31’s.

I suggested to check the code on the rear axle housing. The car has been in storage forever and a day since restored in the 90’s. He really doesn’t worry too much about this stuff, nor has the interest in these oddball things like a lot of us do. Maybe someday he’ll go check it or actually get the car out again.

Anyway, just wondering if it was in fact a GM Canada glitch. He’s also not interested in getting another letter from them at this point.

[Mr70]

I'd be interested to learn more background on this car Don,because I think it was possible on a very select few.

What plant was it assembled at?
What dealer was it delivered too and on what date?
How long after delivery was it sold to it's 1st owner and for how much?

At least two other LS-6's got a similar ratio on the line that I know of back then.
One being an RPO GV-4 3:36,the other an RPO GV-8 4:11 ratio,both by the ordering dealerships special request.
Both had 3:31/4:10 callouts respectively on their rearend tubes,before the gears were swapped out at the factory it appears.
Both of these Chevelles were found to be "Brass Hat" cars as well,with paper work to back it up.
I've also come across one 1970 L-34 SS Chevelle that looks to have come with a 2:73 ratio,yet to date,has not been substantially proven to be assembly line installed with it.

[Don_Lightfoot]

OK Rick. There was apparently no dealer shown on the GM Canada letter. Perhaps they didn't do that back then. It is believed to be from a local dealer here in Eastern Ontario.

Here is the information he read to me from GM Canada Vintage Services:

- Date of GM letter is April 25, 1994.
- Assembly Plant Baltimore.
- Shipping date Jan. 27/70.
- A31 Power Windows.
- A51 Bucket Seats.
- D55 Console.
- D88 Body Striping.
- F41 Suspension.
- GV2 3.08 Rear Ratio.
- G33/34 computer selected springs.
- G80 Positraction.
- JL2 Disc Brakes.
- J52 Power brakes.
- LS6 454/450 engine.
- M22 HD four speed.
- N40 Power Steering.
- PL4 White Lettered Tires.
- P60 HD battery.
- U14 Gauges.
- U63 Am Radio.
- U76 Windshield antenna.
- U80 Rear speaker.
- V48 Increased coolant.
- W84 Additional Fuel.
- ZK8 tire pressure sticker.
- ZL2 Cowl Induction Hood.
- ZQ7 Canadian warranty booklet.
- Z15 SS package.
- 756 Black trim.
- 28 Fathom Blue.

[Mr70]

Thanks Don.
Can the 1st owner be found today?
I wonder if he paid a significant discount price,possibly meaning it was driven extensively daily and for long distances before he took possesion of it...

[markjohnson]

Wow, I can't believe that if there was a 3.08 geared LS-6 Chevelle built, that there was a 2.20 First gear close-ratio Muncie attached to it. With that relatively long-duration camshaft and that combined "launch ratio" of 6.77 (2.20 x 3.08), this just had to be the biggest slug of an LS-6 ever made. I'm having trouble believing that they would even produce this. Maybe with a wide-ratio 2.5 Muncie or a TH 400, I could see.

[442w30]

[ QUOTE ]
Regardless of what the GM Canada paperwork notes, do you know what rear is actually in the car...if the original?.



[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is the most important comment in the thread.

On the Olds site, someone has Canadian docs from GM that shows the stripe color to be something that it is not - they call the stripe color Azure Blue. If you look at the available stripe from the dealer book and Azure Blue from the color chips (I believe it may be the same color as "Carolina Blue"), you'll see they're different. Clearly the documents were correct in intent, but they named it wrong, which could lead to a misunderstanding.

So is it possible this car came with a 3.08 rear? I dunno, but GM of Canada docs are not the horse's mouth.

[Don_Lightfoot]

I don’t know if the original owner is known Rick. I was wrong about the present owner being the second owner since 1973. I just went through my notes again and he bought it in 1975 and is the third owner.

“Right On” Mark – it would have been a slug for sure. Not something I would want http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

Agree Diego, GM Canada Vintage Services are certainly not infallible.

[GaryH]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow, I can't believe that if there was a 3.08 geared LS-6 Chevelle built, that there was a 2.20 First gear close-ratio Muncie attached to it. With that relatively long-duration camshaft and that combined "launch ratio" of 6.77 (2.20 x 3.08), this just had to be the biggest slug of an LS-6 ever made. I'm having trouble believing that they would even produce this. Maybe with a wide-ratio 2.5 Muncie or a TH 400, I could see.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had a 64 327-365 Vette and planned a trip from PA to AZ back in the day. It had a close ratio 4sp and I stuck a 3.08 in it for the trip. I can tell you for sure it was a slug out of the hole with that high reving solid lifter cam. I got blown off by a 350 2bbl Chevelle at a red light in Tucson. I was so embarrassed! I could run 1st gear up over 70MPH no problem.

[vintagez]

Please provide me with the VIN number and date it was done and for who, I will check and post back on here the result of a recheck, I am thinking it should be GY2 for a 3:31 but would like to check for myself. [email protected]

[Don_Lightfoot]

Hi George, good to see you respond to defend yourself http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Your explanation makes more sense than anything to be honest. When this discrepancy first came up a couple of years ago I did an extensive internet search on the codes and never did come up with that one which would probably have stopped any further discussion at that time. The "Y" and "V" could easily be mistaken when he was reading the codes to me on the phone. Still does not explain the 3.08 which is hard to misread from 3.31 http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif The owner is dealing with some serious health issues right now and I don't think it is appropriate for me to call him to get the serial number. Maybe at a later date.


Sorry to take so long to respond, but I migrated to a new computer today and have had nothing but problems with ISP connections, wireless, router, etc. I hope I never have to change computers again http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

[Schonyenko2]

I have no dog in the fight, but people did unusual things back then, sometimes for a purpose. I believe that I remember seeing at the Gibb reunion, a 67 L78 Camaro royal plum convert, that was ordered with a 308 gear. I believe the owner ordered it that way because he wanted to run down the interstate at 100+ mph. Not everyone back then wanted to go quick fast. Some wanted to go top end stupid fast. As in out run the cops for whatever reason. I remember a particular 64 dodge that could do that pretty well. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif FWIW
Carry on. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Keith Tedford]

I only remember GM having the 4.11 ratio in the 10 bolt and 4.10 in the 12 bolt. Then again, remembering isn't one of my stronger points. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[William]

[ QUOTE ]
I have no dog in the fight, but people did unusual things back then, sometimes for a purpose. I believe that I remember seeing at the Gibb reunion, a 67 L78 Camaro royal plum convert, that was ordered with a 308 gear. I believe the owner ordered it that way because he wanted to run down the interstate at 100+ mph. Not everyone back then wanted to go quick fast. Some wanted to go top end stupid fast. As in out run the cops for whatever reason. I remember a particular 64 dodge that could do that pretty well. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif FWIW
Carry on. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

If it is this one it actually had 2.73s...

http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt65/JJZ109/SC67L78Conv001.jpg

[COPO_Anders]

It´s another story but I had a 1967 Impala with a 275 hp 327 that was built in Canada. It was supposed to have a 10-bolt rearend with a 3.08 posi in it. It actually had a 12-bolt with a 3.07 posi in it, and it was date-correct for the car. I´m thinking it was a glitch at the factory that made this happen. Maybe they ran out of 10-bolts and installed the standard Taxi-car 12-bolt instead ? We will never know.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Schonyenko2]

Yep, that's it.

[Keith Tedford]

There seems to be some evidence that any car ordered with the F40 option also got the 12 bolt. True??

[COPO_Anders]

Keith, my Impala had the F40 option. But George Z. said it should have been built with a 10-bolt.

[vintagez]

COPO Anders, I do not think I ever said whether your car came with a 10 or 12 bolt rear end as my documentation does not show that, you must look in the parts book and use the axle ID to see what is correct. Regarding the GV or GY not really defending myself, just curious what was written, whether it was by me or someone else. Lots of documentation floating around that has been done by other people in the 'old days' and if I made a mistake would like to catch it. I am always willing to re-check what I have done as in life I have learned I am not perfect, but do my best. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Kurt S]

[ QUOTE ]
It´s another story but I had a 1967 Impala with a 275 hp 327 that was built in Canada. It was supposed to have a 10-bolt rearend with a 3.08 posi in it.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
What trans was in the car?

[68l30]

My 68 L-30 Camaro was ordered with a 2:56...Ugh, slug...but a fright on the highway.. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif


Big

[Kurt S]

Steve,
That was a special order. I've only seen one other L30 with that axle.

[COPO_Anders]

First of all I want to apologize for highjacking the thread. I didn´t mean to do that.

George, when I asked you about the 12-bolt rearend on the car you told me to read through the material you had sent me. After doing so I was convinced that it should have been built with a 10-bolt, just like you said. I therefore thought that the 12-bolt was put under the car at the factory by mistake.
But when Keith wrote: "There seems to be some evidence that any car ordered with the F40 option also got the 12 bolt. True??" I started to think that it maybe wasn´t by mistake.

So did F40 cars get 12-bolt rearends ?

Kurt, it has a powerglide as you can see in the document.

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq85/COPO_Anders/Impala-67007.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq85/COPO_Anders/My1967Impala002.jpg

[DaveC68]

My 68 L-35 Camaro was ordered with and still has the 2:56 Posi 12-bolt (code "PO" also calls out "w/metallic brakes") not sure what the signifigance of that was...but its the only 68 Camaro rear listed as such in the reference manual I have.
Original owner ordered that way, and recalled problems and warranty work on the TH400, which he suspected was due to the rear gearing.

[Tarrytown SS427s]

I have seen a lot of 12 bolts in 327 big cars.

[Kurt S]

Dave,
I don't think the PO code was anything other than a 2.56 posi. No idea why the Metallic Brake note, it is the only ratio in 68 with that note...
Did it have the original rear brakes shoes when you got it?

Steve / Warren,
Didn't the F40 suspension add another control arm? If so, was the mount on 10 bolts or only on 12 bolts?

[DaveC68]

[ QUOTE ]
Dave,
I don't think the PO code was anything other than a 2.56 posi. No idea why the Metallic Brake note, it is the only ratio in 68 with that note...
Did it have the original rear brakes shoes when you got it?


[/ QUOTE ]
The car had 43k on it when I got it, I think they had already been changed...I changed them before putting her back on the road (sure I still have what I took off somewhere)
I know I have seen that note in more than one place...it was the only code/ratio to call out the metallic brakes...not sure why?
Dave

[Kurt S]

They didn't need done at 43K, but it's not uncommon for people to be talked into having them serviced.
My SS has 90K miles on it and the rear drums have never been off.

[RPO LS7]

[ QUOTE ]
I have seen a lot of 12 bolts in 327 big cars.

[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed, I have owned a few big cars (1 '65 Impala and 2 '66 Biscayne's) over the years and they all had unmolested 12 bolts in them. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif