LETS HAVE SOME OPINIONS OF WIW ON THIS CAR

[MultiMopars]

Her is the link to it:

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/carsforsale/plymouth/sport_fury/952240.html

[x Baldwin Motion]

I may not be qualified to opine, but I did spot a typo in the ad; a couple of extra "zero's" in the price.

[Dog427435]

Wow!!! One to many six packs I think?? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif


http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/dog427435/1218%20ashbridge/4891353-640-0.jpg

[b] 45K - YIKES!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

[agtw31]

that has to be a misprint.
that car came from a junkyard in ga,i believe he paid a couple grand for it a few years back.
he has a few of those.

[wheelhop]

Rare fender delete option is driving up the price.

[MultiMopars]

Oh it is not a misprint. I found this in a thread on Moparts.com This guy has the market cornered on six pack "C" bodies. They built very few of thenm and I think he owns like 6 of them. I don't think any of them are restored or driving but I could be wrong on that.

Think of a 1969 Impala with a factory intalled 427/435 engine. Yeah, I know they never built one, but this is what it would compare to if they did.

[agtw31]

here is where it came from,back in 2003
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/2212/6bblfury.jpg

[Steven J]

It's a tough one to put a price on, but I would go as high as 15k due to the rarity.

[Bill Pritchard]

I honestly don't have a good idea of real worth (what could you compare it to?), but I am willing to bet that it's a lot less than what he's asking. This is yet another instance where rarity does not necessarily equate to desirability...69 or 70 full size Chrysler products have never exactly set the collector car market on fire. Anyone who would do a proper restoration on that car would be so far upside down it would redefine the term, and it would still be NOM!

[Xplantdad]

[ QUOTE ]
I honestly don't have a good idea of real worth (what could you compare it to?), but I am willing to bet that it's a lot less than what he's asking. This is yet another instance where rarity does not necessarily equate to desirability...69 or 70 full size Chrysler products have never exactly set the collector car market on fire. Anyone who would do a proper restoration on that car would be so far upside down it would redefine the term, and it would still be NOM!

[/ QUOTE ]

You read my mind Bill! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Fast67VelleN2O]

I would say the roller is worth $3k. The parts that come with must be worth another $6,000. If this car was restored.... to the right person... 45k.

[69hurstSC]

[ QUOTE ]
I honestly don't have a good idea of real worth (what could you compare it to?), but I am willing to bet that it's a lot less than what he's asking. This is yet another instance where rarity does not necessarily equate to desirability...69 or 70 full size Chrysler products have never exactly set the collector car market on fire. Anyone who would do a proper restoration on that car would be so far upside down it would redefine the term, and it would still be NOM!

[/ QUOTE ]
It kinda reminds me of the 4 door hemi's.

[old5.0]

V-code or not, 5K max. Some cars are rare for a reason.

[69Tom]

45K is a little crazy. I used to own a '70 Sport Fury. It was impossible finding parts for it. You'd basically have to buy another complete car with the same interior and simply carve it up for metal replacement and transfer over the good interior parts.

At the end of the day, a car is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. I obviously find it more "valuable" than most here on the board as I had one and know how impossible it is to find a 'Rapid Transit System' Sport Fury. With that said, I think $45K is way too much in that shape. MAYBE, $17-20K, and this is from someone who really likes these cars and would love to own one.

[SS4Real]

A lot closer to zero than what he is asking. No wonder it's rare.

[black69]

that car needs a donor car in the deal, plus you better check it does not have a salvage title in its closet of secrets. cool car when restored.

[BARRY]

AND ANOTHER 45,000 TO RESTORE

[agtw31]

[ QUOTE ]
that car needs a donor car in the deal, plus you better check it does not have a salvage title in its closet of secrets. cool car when restored.

[/ QUOTE ]

what title? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

[al8apex]

a guy can dream can't he? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

That is what I see, some junk collector that has DREAMS of his junk being worth big money because he had the foresight to save these pigs from the crusher, all that is IMHO, so YMMV, etc

Pretty sure no one else shares his dreams though

as noted above, even if it were FREE it would be a bad deal, PLUS the salvage issue, etc

[442w30]

[ QUOTE ]
V-code or not, 5K max. Some cars are rare for a reason.

[/ QUOTE ]

So what's the reason?

Would you say the same excuse if it was a L78 convertible? Or are they rare for a different reason?

[Dave Rifkin]

Am I the only one who thinks it is a cool car? Very rough and would cost way more than it's worth to restore but, a cool car nontheless.

[MultiMopars]

Well, since I brought up the subject I will give my opinion.

Yes, it would be a cool car. It was part of the Rapid Transit System for Plymouth which was the sister organization of Dodges Scat Pack which the factory designated as "their" idea of a factory built hipo cars. Dodge did not have a "C" body designated in their Scat Pack so the 440-6 Sport Fury is a stand alone car.

The #1 condition in the guide I use for a 1970 Sport Fury, 2 door hardtop, with a 318 is $12050. There is no add for a 440-6 due to the limited numbers to assign a value. There is a 20% add for a 440/375. So lets say the 440-6 is worth a 75% add. Then lets give it another 25% for the Black color. Then lets give it another 25% for it's rarity. This adds up to $27675. for a #1 condition car if my math is right.

I think I have been very generous here and I NEVER add a dollar value for a color as it is personal choice, but of course so are the particular cars we like as individuals. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Your could not buy the parts and restore this car for DOUBLE this amount EXCLUDING your purchase price. Is it worth it? To the right guy that like the big "sea bodies" (C bodies) it would have to be considered Plymouths top dog for a performance model and may take this car to task. It would have to be considered a labor of love with no thoughts of making any money on or even getting your investment back upon resale if kept in #1 condition unless the market exploded sometime again. But who knows, there certainly should be a buyer out there for it but I don't THINK anyone is going to step up to the car for anywhere near the asking price which must certainly be a fishing expedition.

[370454s]

I am like Dave. I like this Plymouth Fury. When I was growing up in Seattle, a couple of Mopar guys up the street had a bunch of different Cool Mopars. One of the Guys had a Triple Black 440-6 Pack Sportfury Gt.That thing would fly for a big Car. It had Buckets, Console, Rallye Dash and 15 inch Road Wheels, IE Kelsey Hayes. Cool Car for sure. I think he bought it used for $1500 in 74 or 75.Just my memories and opinion.
Thanks
Mike Bond

[SuperNovaSS]

Darryl,


I agree it it most likely a fishing expedition.

From the few posts regarding value I have seen you post on, it seems that you think "the guide" is a bible. I'm not sure which particular book you are referring to, but a guide is just that.

Extra special cars are many times excluded. In fact, it appears this one is included. Just for fun, pull out a 80's or 90's blue book and see what the percentage add is for a factory 427 in a 69 Camaro.
On the other hand, many cars are way over valued. Most of this is due to the fact that the figures are taken from auction results. There are many variables that could cause mistakes in auction figures. After all, there is really no reason to ask others for value opinions if you always plan to go back to "the guide".


Jason

[MultiMopars]

[ QUOTE ]
Darryl,


I agree it it most likely a fishing expedition.

From the few posts regarding value I have seen you post on, it seems that you think "the guide" is a bible. I'm not sure which particular book you are referring to, but a guide is just that.

Extra special cars are many times excluded. In fact, it appears this one is included. Just for fun, pull out a 80's or 90's blue book and see what the percentage add is for a factory 427 in a 69 Camaro.
On the other hand, many cars are way over valued. Most of this is due to the fact that the figures are taken from auction results. There are many variables that could cause mistakes in auction figures. After all, there is really no reason to ask others for value opinions if you always plan to go back to "the guide".


Jason

[/ QUOTE ]


The guy that owns this car has several of them. One is another Black car with Orange interior and Orange stripes. My GUESS would be that he is thinking that if he can sell this one for big money it will fund a resto on one of the others.

Your right, you won't find an add in a price guide for a 427 in a Camaro. Primarily because it was not a "regular production option" and because most of the automotive world didn't know it was available from the factory, as well as the limited numbers that were sold by comparison of the total production. Until recently you could not find cars such as true 1967 L88s either still today in these old car guides simply because there are never any sales of them to give any kind of comparable for them. The guide I use shows a 67 Corvette roadster in #1 condition with a 327/300 with a 350% add for an L88 which figures at $270K. That is WAY off as even today in this market is a 67 L88 is a 1,000,000. car

Your right a guide is just that, a guide. Your also right about special cars being excluded which is why I added 125% to the guide's price on this car. The thing is, it is a full size car. The sales of those as hipo cars dropped like a rock when the factories began offering 400+ cubes in an intermediate or pony sized car. I was 20 years old in 1970 and selling new cars. The only people that were buying full sized hipo cars then were my fathers age. The heyday for the likes of the hipo Impala was pretty much over after 1964. Are you old enough to remember when restored to original Ford A's and T's were big money? You can't give one away today. Why? because the guys that were buying them then were My GRANDFATHER'S age and they are dead. The buying audience for the subject car is very small. You have to consider the original buyer senerio for this car as well since that is generally the nostolgic buying group for a car such as this, and my father is 83. Not many people that age buying collector cars anymore. There are very few on Moparts.com that think the car has much value (compared to what the seller is asking) and that is a very large, active, Mopar enthusiest web site. That should tell you some thing.

As far as using the guide I am not exactly a novice to selling cars and determining values. I was in the car business for 30 years. I have appraised 1000s of car throughout my career.
In the past when the market was high I was told I was crazy using it because it was too low. Now it is too high? Granted, it takes a little while for the print issues to catch up to the market when it is moving quickly. This is why the car dealers got "drop sheets" between the monthly print Kelley Blue books.

Yes, price guides are derived from auction reports and reporting dealers for these cars. That is the bulk of the sales for these cars. There are approximately 3000 old cars sold in one month at the Winter Phoenix auctions. There are several other large auction throughout the year that sell a large number of these cars. The dealers that specialize in old cars sell a sizable number of cars throughout the year as well. Ebay, specialized web sites dedicated to specific makes really sell very few cars directly as evidenced by the same cars run and advertised month after month. There is no way to track private sales anyway so what else are people going to point to for a reputable value for an old car?

Try and get a loan for an old car or settling an insurance claim and see if anyone will consider a "I heard of one selling for such and such on a web site." They go straight to a recognized guide just like I have been pointing to.

If you think that these cars don't get financed think again. Have you ever considered that a lot of the slow down and price drops are very similar to the real estate values? MANY of these old cars were funded by real estate equity when the market was booming. Suddenly real estate is way off, (so are old car prices) lending is down, equity loans are a thing of the past, and this is a BIG reason sales have slowed.

I created this thread to see what some of the "other part of the hobby" thought about the value of this car other than what the Mopar boys think.

Check this out:
Here is a link to the moparts.com thread on this car.

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=0#Post5652868 (http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=5652868&an=0&page=0#Post 5652868)

[old5.0]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
V-code or not, 5K max. Some cars are rare for a reason.

[/ QUOTE ]

So what's the reason?

Would you say the same excuse if it was a L78 convertible? Or are they rare for a different reason?

[/ QUOTE ]


Nope, rare for the exact same reason. In 1969, why would you buy an L78 'vert when a hardtop is lighter, faster and cheaper? Same with a HemiCuda 'vert in 1970. Or, in this car's case, why buy a Fury when Six Barrel Runner is lighter, cheaper, and could hand this car it's a** on a plate? Don't get me wrong, I dig L78 'vert's. I like the rarity and now, four decades later, I attach a higher value due to that rarity. But this car is not a Chevelle. Or a 'Cuda. Rare doesn't automatically equal desirable.

Let me put it this way. If somebody announced tomorrow that they had come up with a 70 LS6 Caprice, I would think it was cool, a neat find, but I sure wouldn't assign it the same value as an LS6 Chevelle convertible. Neither car would be the first choice of most performance car buyers in 1970, but no way any 70 full-size is ever going to have the same "cool" factor as a Chevelle 'vert, at least in my opinion.

I'm not dismissing the car out of hand. When I say that in my opinion it's worth five thousand, I'm taking into account it's rarity and desirability. If it were anything but a factory Six Barrel, I would've said five hundred, and choked a little pricing it that high.

This guy is asking Six Barrel Road Runner money for this thing. Which car would you rather have?

[SuperNovaSS]

I agree with both of the last 2 posts.

Darryl,


Financing is absoltuely available on classic cars. That is main reason classic car dealers are so successful. They can show the bank the book on the car and it usually shows a much higher value than the sale price. Why are they selling it for way back of book? Because that is what they can get for it. It works out well. The bank thinks they are buying good paper, the buyer thinks they are stealing the car in relation to the "value", and the dealer has a big grin on his face. I have consigned cars at dealers in the past for this very reason. They can finance a car as quick as a new one. That is very important when a guy planned to buy a car with his home equity and no longer can.

Back to value, I am not at all educated on Mopar fullsize cars. I do however agree with 5.0 that a fullsize car with the same equipment as a pony or midsize car should not command the same money.


Jason

[king_midas]

Back in the day the road test car could only muster a 16.01 / 92.5...

Who cares rare, when it's that slow, not to mention it's uglier than ugly.

[442w30]

[ QUOTE ]

Nope, rare for the exact same reason. In 1969, why would you buy an L78 'vert when a hardtop is lighter, faster and cheaper? Same with a HemiCuda 'vert in 1970. Or, in this car's case, why buy a Fury when Six Barrel Runner is lighter, cheaper, and could hand this car it's a** on a plate? Don't get me wrong, I dig L78 'vert's. I like the rarity and now, four decades later, I attach a higher value due to that rarity. But this car is not a Chevelle. Or a 'Cuda. Rare doesn't automatically equal desirable.

[/ QUOTE ]

But it's not rare for the exact same reason, which is the point that I was unsuccessful in making.

You're talking about a big Plymouth that doesn't carry much weight (pun not intended) in the hobby no matter what engine it has. By 1970, there simply was no demand for a big car with multiple carbs . . . hell, even Chevy stopped promoting the Impala SS (with 427) after 1969. What other full-size musclecar was there in 1970? In the truest sense of the term, there weren't any.

On the other hand, a SS396 Chevelle ragtop with an L78 is very rare, but that's because a solid lifter engine like that wasn't popular to the general ragtop market. . . . not a good motor to tow a boat, requires more frequent tuning, etc.

But the value of a L78 ragtop is high because it's a rare car that has the demand to support it in the marketplace. The GT V-code, in comparison, suffers from being a C-body (even Mopar guys make fun of 'em), and the demand is not there to justify a high price - that's why I'm confused by your analogy because "rare doesn't equal desirable" can't be a blanket statement in my mind.

[ QUOTE ]

This guy is asking Six Barrel Road Runner money for this thing. Which car would you rather have?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, here's an analogy of mine: Would I prefer a '65 Impala with the L78 or a '66 Chevelle with the L78? I'd take the former!

[al8apex]

[ QUOTE ]


Let me put it this way. If somebody announced tomorrow that they had come up with a 70 LS6 Caprice, I would think it was cool, a neat find, but I sure wouldn't assign it the same value as an LS6 Chevelle convertible.

[/ QUOTE ]

there is a well known 69 427 (L72?) Chevy full size wagon with drag racing history that is NICE for WAY less than that asking price of that C body mopar

*I* think a solid lifter Chevy wagon is way cooler than the Fury, but that is MY opinion

The car is priced for deep "sea" (pun intended) fishing

[69Tom]

If I had the money to be in the market to buy cars without worrying about it too much (there's definitely people out there so it's not far fetched), if all the numbers matched and the car were a real Sport Fury 440-6, I'd have no problem paying $55-60K for it in restored condition. Would I be crazy for doing so? Perhaps, but a) a '70 Sport Fury with bucket seats, a console, and Rallye Wheels was my first car, b) because I spent a long time researching these cars, I know how rare the Rapid Transit version is, and c) I think it's a cool car and the numerous people who commented on it EVERY time I drove it agreed with me.

It might not be your general "star" collector car like an L72 Chevy or a other supercar, but it's still a cool ride in it's own regard.

$45K unrestored is still crazy, however.

[69hurstSC]

[ QUOTE ]

What other full-size musclecar was there in 1970? In the truest sense of the term, there weren't any.


[/ QUOTE ]
Wrong.
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/1845/32055111294large.jpg

[442w30]

True, that!

[old5.0]

[ QUOTE ]
But it's not rare for the exact same reason, which is the point that I was unsuccessful in making.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I disagree. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[ QUOTE ]
You're talking about a big Plymouth that doesn't carry much weight (pun not intended) in the hobby no matter what engine it has. By 1970, there simply was no demand for a big car with multiple carbs . . . hell, even Chevy stopped promoting the Impala SS (with 427) after 1969. What other full-size musclecar was there in 1970? In the truest sense of the term, there weren't any.

On the other hand, a SS396 Chevelle ragtop with an L78 is very rare, but that's because a solid lifter engine like that wasn't popular to the general ragtop market. . . . not a good motor to tow a boat, requires more frequent tuning, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

We can speculate all day as to why more people didn't order more of a particular combination, but it seems kind of futile to me. In my mind, regardless of their collectability today, neither a Six Barrel Fury or an L78 convertible made any sense strictly from a performance standpoint, but that's my opinion.

[ QUOTE ]
But the value of a L78 ragtop is high because it's a rare car that has the demand to support it in the marketplace. The GT V-code, in comparison, suffers from being a C-body (even Mopar guys make fun of 'em), and the demand is not there to justify a high price - that's why I'm confused by your analogy because "rare doesn't equal desirable" can't be a blanket statement in my mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, there is no demand for it. What are we debating again? I think you're reading too much into this. I didn't make a blanket statement, I said it doesn't automatically equal desirable. A puke green slant six Belvedere four door sedan with red interior might be a one of one, but who cares? Again, their current collectibility bears no relation to why there weren't more built in the first place. Of course most people would assign a higher value to an L78 'vert than they would a Six Barrel Fury. I know I would, but that doesn't change the fact that in 1969, when there was zero collectability assigned to these cars, no self-respecting horsepower geek would ever have chosen a convertible over a hardtop. Or a Fury over a Road Runner or Cuda.

[ QUOTE ]
Well, here's an analogy of mine: Would I prefer a '65 Impala with the L78 or a '66 Chevelle with the L78? I'd take the former!

[/ QUOTE ]

And I'd agree with you. But I wouldn't trade a truckload of junk Furys for a solid Six Barrel Road Runner. Again this all just my opinion.

[MultiMopars]

Check this out. It sounds like the guy that wants $45K for one of his black cars has purchased this COMPLETE original owner car for 10% of the asking price of the original subject car in this post.

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=0#Post5681319 (http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=5681319&an=0&page=0#Post 5681319)

[gts340]

I call b.s. on the 10% car. I think it's a joke being played on Dan, the seller of the 45k car by a moparter.
I think the car he has for sale is cool. Hopefully someone comes along and restores it. If it's truly for sale, the market will determine the price.
I wish the hobby was more about the passion for the cars than the value, it would be a lot more fun.

[MultiMopars]

[ QUOTE ]
I call b.s. on the 10% car. I think it's a joke being played on Dan, the seller of the 45k car by a moparter.
I think the car he has for sale is cool. Hopefully someone comes along and restores it. If it's truly for sale, the market will determine the price.
I wish the hobby was more about the passion for the cars than the value, it would be a lot more fun.

[/ QUOTE ]

According to the latest linked Moparts thread I show, Dan is the one that purchased the $4500. car.

[Fast67VelleN2O]

That car was a hoax for sure.

[gts340]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I call b.s. on the 10% car. I think it's a joke being played on Dan, the seller of the 45k car by a moparter.
I think the car he has for sale is cool. Hopefully someone comes along and restores it. If it's truly for sale, the market will determine the price.
I wish the hobby was more about the passion for the cars than the value, it would be a lot more fun.

[/ QUOTE ]

According to the latest linked Moparts thread I show, Dan is the one that purchased the $4500. car.

[/ QUOTE ]

So he says but hasn't been seen since on that thread.

[old5.0]

I think you're right. That whole deal was way too convenient. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[x Baldwin Motion]

[ QUOTE ]
Check this out.

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=0#Post5681319 (http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=5681319&an=0&page=0#Post 5681319)

[/ QUOTE ]


http://www-personal.umich.edu/~gkk/alaskapix/DSCN2690.JPG

[agtw31]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

What other full-size musclecar was there in 1970? In the truest sense of the term, there weren't any.


[/ QUOTE ]
Wrong.
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/1845/32055111294large.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]
no way is a Hurst 300 anywhere near a musclecar,not running mid 16's.

[442w30]

Kinda like the 1955 C-300, right? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif