Could a '69 Chevelle be ordered w/ a 454?

[TMagda]

Don't know much about Chevelle's but it just occured to me that I haven't seen anyone mention one on the forums that I can remember. The reason I ask is that a friend of mine in HS had a triple black '69 SS that had a 454 but also had 454 emblems on it. Was this a made up car?

[Fast67VelleN2O]

You couldn't get a 454 engine in anything until the 1970 model year.

[Mr70]

True that!

[TMagda]

It's easy to see how confusion could be created around the existance of certain option combo's. This was roughly 1975 and I was working on my Z/28 in a friends driveway. His next door neighbor (older guy - I was 16) comes home driving what appears to be a '69 triple black Chevelle SS 454 w/Torque Thrusts and For Sale signs. I called another freind and he bought it shortly after. That means that sometime after 1970 but before 1975 someone swapped the engine and installed 454 emblems all around. Looked very stock.

[XXXGoldL34M20]

454's started being built late 1969 for 1970 cars so chevrolet never had one in a 1969 model car.

[Postsedan]

Ask the same question...with a 427? Yes, indeed! Besides the 427 was a much better engine! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

Dan.

[markjohnson]

'Ya really think, Dan? You're gonna create a firestorm with that statement! Seriously though, that's an arguement that's been going on a long time. 454 vs. 427. It's hard to beat an extra 27 Cubic Inches but it does takes 440 RPM for a 427 to move the same amount of air through it as a 454 @ 7000 RPM. The 427 does have a desireable rod/stroke ratio of 1.63 which makes it a little harder to hurt and decreases piston "rock" in the cylinder which makes for less bore and piston wear. Crankshaft is slightly stronger too with that shorter stroke because short stroke crankshafts are generally SLIGHTLY stronger than their long-armed brethren. I've had many of both (and much bigger) but I've always tried to put the biggest motor together that's financially possible! I'll tell you......I've always been impressed by the Buick 455 and the power that people have gotten out of them.

[Postsedan]

Mark,

I agee with you 100%.... the Buick 455 is a true torque monster.

Dan.

[jeff morocco]

[ QUOTE ]
Besides the 427 was a much better engine! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

Dan.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree with you Dan. here's a little story about a 454 vs a 427 in 1970. my dad and his friend were in the final round against each other at Oswego dragway. he had the yenko and his friend had the 70 LS6.


http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o229/killr68/scan0006-1.jpg

my dad won the race with a 12.42 to a losing 12.98. that race was the reason for fred,the owner of the LS6 , to go to the E.T. Shop and swap out the 454 for a 427.

final round time slip

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o229/killr68/et1.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o229/killr68/et2.jpg

and the trophy

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o229/killr68/trophy1.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o229/killr68/trophy2.jpg

so yeah.......i agree, the 427 is a better engine!! even though i was only 2 !! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Keith Tedford]

I can believe 12.4s for the 427 but a good LS6 should be right there too. The only dyno figures that I have seen showed an L72 making about 430 hp and an LS6 making around 460. The difference in weight and state of tune can make a big difference in how well these engines can perform. From the factory, with retarded timing and #68 primary jets, they sure didn't show their true potential. In about 200k miles about all that ours needed replacing was a water pump, fan clutch, and one valve spring. I guess they just weren't up to the rpm potential. Now, that's a good engine in my book. I was told back in the day that the COPO engines were honed out to the loose limit of the bore spec. Any truth to that. Ours revved as freely as any small block. Curious. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[Postsedan]

Jeff,

Great story! Man I wish I was your Dad for only that one special day!

Dan.

[WILMASBOYL78]

Dyno figures vary widely depending on the equipment and various "human" factors...I have seen a number of L78 motors producing 420-430hp. So, it wouldn't surprise me if the 427's made 450hp or more...others may have different ideas.

wilma http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[hubleyman]

Just out of curiosity.....

What is the approximate latest build date of the 1969 Chevelle model run (from any plant)?

What is the earliest known casting or assembly date of any HP version of the production line 454 engine?

[WILMASBOYL78]

Calling Mr70...calling Mr70...please come in.

[XXXGoldL34M20]

[ QUOTE ]
Just out of curiosity.....

What is the approximate latest build date of the 1969 Chevelle model run (from any plant)?

What is the earliest known casting or assembly date of any HP version of the production line 454 engine?

[/ QUOTE ]
i remember reading on one of the chevelle forums that the earliest 454 motor from a documented chevelle was november of 1969.

[markjohnson]

I recently ran across an old Bill Jenkins article where he spoke of running a totally stock L-78 396-375 HP on the dyno and it made a real 430 HP. That's actually pretty believable as people forget that when the L-78 was released in 1965, it was rated at 425 HP. Then naturally, we have the 1966 L-72 427-425 HP that was really 450 HP as shown on early production cars before they were "stickered" down to 425 HP after only a few months. Back to the 427 vs. 454, my own totally stock LS-6 ran 11.80's in an early Camaro I used to own. Through the exhaust with headers and a 4.10 Posi but that was with stock intake, camshaft, rockers, etc. Pick your own poison whether it's an L-78, L-72, or LS-6, they all enjoyed that same camshaft where you could drive to work everyday Monday thru Friday, go to the Dragstrip on Sunday and run 12's or faster with some simple tuning. They did something right becuase we're still driving, racing and talking about these things 40-45 years later!

[1970Bluel78]

When I was a 19 year old kid not knowing too much I ran 12.48 at E town with my 70 L78 Nova. It was not stock (but close ) had some bolt on's and 456 rear and a pair of re-tread Kelly Springfield cheater slicks.

[chevy427450]

I can tell you guys that the day I ran the 12:42 against the LS6, we both were young guys and not really able to tell the difference between a well tuned engine or one that was not. The only changes made to the car was a set of headers and a Hurst shifter. The slicks were a set of "hard as a rock" recaps from McCreary and 7 inches wide.
As far as tuning, the best we could think to do was advance the timing so the mark was somewhere under the waterpump. We didn't dare open up the carb, becaues in those days, holley's came with cork gaskets that broke when you looked at them. A tool box full of spare parts was not around in those days. As a matter of fact, tools were not very abundant either. We just happened to be lucky enough to live "back in the day", not very mechanically inclined but had a blast. We trusted the Generals decision to built that type of car so we just drove them. Those certainly were the days!!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[SUSQ]

[ QUOTE ]
Mark,

I agee with you 100%.... the Buick 455 is a true torque monster.


Dan.

[/ QUOTE ]

I couldn't agree more. Had a high school buddy who had a bone stock GS455. It was an absolute beast (an pretty darn luxo too!). The 350 hp rating wasn't even close. Anybody know what a base GS455 engine dynos at? Gotta be 400+? How would a stock GS455 fare when matched up against full-sized, stock Hemi car in the quarter mile?

[ORIGLS6]

[ QUOTE ]
We just happened to be lucky enough to live "back in the day", not very mechanically inclined but had a blast. We trusted the Generals decision to built that type of car so we just drove them. Those certainly were the days!!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

AMEN!

[chevy427450]

I have an old 8 mm movie of that race. If I can figure out how to convert it to dvd without destroying it, maybe I can post it. Does anyone remember 8 mm movies????

[PeteLeathersac]

Learned from experience, take the old 8mm movie to a place that offers the service of converting to Dvd's BEFORE ever viewing it even once!.

Sometimes running old film past the projecter bulbs washes out the color also can make the film crispy from the heat so subsequent running breaks the film..

Also if you use a conversion service place, unless you're a computer whiz it may be worth asking if they'll load it onto YouTube for an extra couple o' bucks?.

Best of luck whatever you do...we'll all be on the edge of our seats waiting to see the SHhttp://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gifW!.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif
~ Pete

[jeff morocco]

[ QUOTE ]
I have an old 8 mm movie of that race. If I can figure out how to convert it to dvd without destroying it, maybe I can post it. Does anyone remember 8 mm movies????

[/ QUOTE ]

FINALLY !!! ive told everyone that you have alot of stuff on 8mm, so find someplace to get it done ASAP ! its not like you have anything to do anyway !! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[chevy427450]

Time for my Nap..... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Bill Pritchard]

[ QUOTE ]
Time for my Nap..... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[jannes_z-28]

[ QUOTE ]
How would a stock GS455 fare when matched up against full-sized, stock Hemi car in the quarter mile?

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a compilation from magazine articles of the time were they have listed all tested cars and their E.T.

This was all factory stock cars, brand new.

The Buick GS came third on that list with all Hemi cars below it. The two that beat the Buick was Corvettes.

I think it was Car Craft that put together the list and it was republished in MCR a while ago.

In 1970 the Swedish truck manufacturer Scania came with a new model that had a V8 diesel at almost 1000 cu. in. The most powerful truck engine in Europe! The 1970 Buick 455 had slightly more torque than that truck diesel engine!

Jan

[black69]

Bill thomas showed how you could get 500HP just by blueprinting a 65 L78 vette engine (I got the book, done in 65). I think it shows the potential of a 11:1 compression L78 if its set up perfectly.