69 RS COPO CANADA DOC'S

[lwkitt427]

WOW DID ANY OF YOU GUYS SEE THE 1969 COPO RS WITH GM CANADA DOC;S SELL AT B.J I THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD DEAL AT THAT PRICE?

[Tracker1]

Yes, on the surface it seems someone got a screaming deal. I'd be like the lady in that IKEA sale commercial - "Start the car, Start the CARRR!!!!!

And $192,000 for a black, w/black billboard 1971 hemicuda??

If those cars really sold for that much and weren't bought back by their owners it's a new low in the market.

But, then again, the silver 1970 W30 Olds 442 convertible goes 205,000K - strong money.

I just hope the new owners use 'em as they were intended and put some rubber up on the quarter panels.

[ChevyThunder]

[ QUOTE ]
WOW DID ANY OF YOU GUYS SEE THE 1969 COPO RS WITH GM CANADA DOC;S SELL AT B.J I THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD DEAL AT THAT PRICE?

[/ QUOTE ]

The screen on stage behind the car when they started to roll it off said it was a non-numbers matching car.
Can anyone there confirm exactly what the car is? Orig body.. any original components ?

Did anyone see the Canadian docs to see what options the car was originally equiped with ?

[Fast67VelleN2O]

An RS COPO should have brought more money than that, NOM or not.

[69Tom]

What was the final selling price? I was away from the tv when it crossed the block.

[Musclecarkid]

$137,000

[firstgenaddict]

The disclaimer on the screen is on every one, it says to assume the engines are not numbers matching unless otherwise noted or something of the sort.

[Charley Lillard]

Nobody knew anything about the COPO so we sat and watched it sell. The black hemu cuda had options like the billboards and rubber bumper added but a great price. I was high bidder at 75K on a 440 sixpack roadrunner convert and all of a sudden they went to 76K and I never had a chance to bid that I could tell and someone else got it for 76K. Great car for the money.

[Tracker1]

L72 RS COPO Camaro. Matching numbers 427cid/425hp, M22 4-speed close-ratio transmission. This is a restored and highly optioned COPO. Documented by GM of Canada. Registered with the COPO Connection. The "9561" optioned COPO Camaro needs little introduction to those in the Camaro world, but this highly optioned car is more unusual still. This car was delivered new with a host of very unusual options for a COPO. The Rallye Sport option, Endura bumper, Rallye wheels, and rosewood steering wheel are nearly never found on COPOs. This car also has power front disc brakes, power steering, tinted glass, Cowl Hood and floor console. The General Motors Technicians Guild chose this specific car to highlight for their year 2000. An original painting was commissioned at the time depicting the car entering a drive-in theatre, so popular in the 1960's. Collector's limited edition china plates and framed prints were specially created for guild members. One of each was provided to the car owner and they are included in the sale. "$137,000"

[MosportGreen66]

As long as the COPO is real, with some sort of authentication or paperwork from day-1, it is a STEAL at $137,000. Also, the Gold COPO Camaro at Gooding and Co sold for $142,000 (around there). Another very attractive price!

[quick-bowtie]

I wish I knew more about the RS COPO but its hard bidding on a car that know one knows of. The gold COPO at Gooding did well considering the color IMO.

The 71' Cuda had gthe worst description you could ever have!! That car was a buy!

All of the ex. Bill Wiemann cars had horrible descriptions and didnt say what they really were and there was some somkin' buys on them.

[Fast67VelleN2O]

Was it a Hemi Coronet that sold for 26k? Something with a Hemi in it sold for under 30K i wasn't really paying attention, I was at the bar.

[Xplantdad]

Sorry I didn't get to meet up with you Andy... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[njsteve]

Wasn't that black on black 71 hemicuda a Weimann car? That was the one with the chrome plated undercarriage, right? That was a helluva bargain for something that just needs an underside "dechroming".

[CamaroNOS]

Was it a deal or not, that's the $137,000 question.

Well, we have to answer a few questions first.

1. Who were the previous owner(s)?
2. Who found the car?
3. Where did it come from?
4. How was it found?
5. Who restored it?
6. Who owned it after the restoration?

Answer these questions and the puzzle is solved. Who cares about the accolades. A CARS HISTORY NEVER LIES!
Also keep in mind, if it was to be judged by a real judge, would it end up at 700 pts. or a 1000 pts. That "small difference" can mean a PILE of money!

In other words, supply this info. and maybe the buyer got a deal or scammed.

Supply a VIN number and the real story will come out.....it always does.

[MosportGreen66]

question 1, 2, 3, and 6 are entirely arbitrary

[CamaroNOS]

If you are familiar with some of the people that restore these highly sought after Camaro's, Nova's and Chevelle's from Canada, it is extremely important.

Much has been written on this site about such individuals.

[Hylton]

[ QUOTE ]
Was it a deal or not, that's the $137,000 question.

Well, we have to answer a few questions first.

1. Who were the previous owner(s)?
2. Who found the car?
3. Where did it come from?
4. How was it found?
5. Who restored it?
6. Who owned it after the restoration?

Answer these questions and the puzzle is solved. Who cares about the accolades. A CARS HISTORY NEVER LIES!
Also keep in mind, if it was to be judged by a real judge, would it end up at 700 pts. or a 1000 pts. That "small difference" can mean a PILE of money!

In other words, supply this info. and maybe the buyer got a deal or scammed.

Supply a VIN number and the real story will come out.....it always does.

[/ QUOTE ]


Good point. The car was restored by Matt Langford 6 years ago. Do a search here on the cars that this guy has been associated with and you'll quickly understand why it went so cheap.

[talwell]

Was this the car that sold? Note it was listed for sale at $250k:

Extremely rare RS CoPo Camaro. VIN 124379N640809. Fathom Green over Black interior. Documented by GM Canada twice, CoPo connection, Ontario owner's records and by the GM Technicians Guild. Immaculate condition in every respect. The best CoPo Camaro available anywhere. $250,000. This 1969 CoPo Camaro, ordered as a Central Office Production Option number 9561, was ordered by Chevrolet Dealer number 95517 - Chevy Yonge Ltd. of Toronto, Ontario, Canada and was shipped from the Norwood, Ohio Camaro plant on May 8, 1969. It was ordered with the extremely rare Z22 RS package that has been documented by GM of Canada on two separate occassions as well as by Edward Cunneen of the CoPo Connection, a historical society for these rare Camaros. This car was restored to a fastidious degree by Dave Mattina and Matt Langford of Ontario, Canada. Their sole business was the restoration of original condition, Canadian delivery Camaros. This car was highlighted by the GM Technicians Guild as part of the 2000 GM National Champions Award. GM has confirmed that this car is an RS CoPo. It was fitted with the L72 427 cid, 425 hp, 460 lb ft engine, M-22 "Rock Crusher" 4 speed transmission, 12 bolt posi-traction, heat treated gear rear end, Rally wheels, Rally Sport Package, spoilers and soft front bumper. Every significant number on the car matches the VIN and the GM supplied documentation. This car is for a serious muscle car collector who wants a unique CoPo Camaro. Only some of the Yenko cars are more sought after than a documented RS CoPo. In terms of condition, there may be none better anywhere. This car is fastidiously restored and in perfect, better than showroom condition.

http://www.vintageracingservices.com/?page_id=33&album=3&gallery=23

[markinnaples]

I am pretty sure that RS COPO was "Mountain Green" or whatever, not Fathom Green.

[Xplantdad]

Nope....it's the same car as the above post references...check the first pics in the link above...

Here's the card that was offered at the auction

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b156/lotsayenkopics/zz/RScopo1.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b156/lotsayenkopics/zz/RScopo2.jpg

[CamaroNOS]

Thanks for filling in the blanks with all that detail. It's exactly the car I suspected it was.

Well with those two names attached.....that is all I need to know. We up here in Ontario are very well versed in this car which is quote "fastidiously restored and in perfect, better than showroom condition."

To whoever bought it, GOOD LUCK.

[AutoInsane]

Hummm... I am glad I wasn't at the auction and had $138k in my pocket.... if it looks to good to be true....

Research, research, research

So the trick is you order GM of Canada documents on a wrecked car and build a 'new' car with 'documentation'. You would think the authorities would be a bit more interested in investigating cars like this....

[talwell]

In comparison to ZL1 #27 - this really was not a bad buy. Despite the reputation of the builders, the car as it stands is "technically" a RS COPO w. docs. ZL1 #27 is basically the same thing if this car has also been fabricated from the VIN and that car is "technically" a ZL1 and sold for about 50% of actual value. This COPO also sold for about 50% of actual value as well.

So here is the developing trend - if you have a car to sell with an unknown history or questionable authenticity then expect it to sell for about 50% of actual market value. Even at that price, I am sure it is still very profitable to produce one of these in demand very rare muscle cars.

[69L89396]

[ QUOTE ]
In comparison to ZL1 #27 - this really was not a bad buy. Despite the reputation of the builders, the car as it stands is "technically" a RS COPO w. docs. ZL1 #27 is basically the same thing if this car has also been fabricated from the VIN and that car is "technically" a ZL1 and sold for about 50% of actual value. This COPO also sold for about 50% of actual value as well.

So here is the developing trend - if you have a car to sell with an unknown history or questionable authenticity then expect it to sell for about 50% of actual market value. Even at that price, I am sure it is still very profitable to produce one of these in demand very rare muscle cars.

[/ QUOTE ]

the question is could you not build a "clone" for half the selling price? Then what are these docs worth? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Hylton]

[ QUOTE ]
In comparison to ZL1 #27 - this really was not a bad buy. Despite the reputation of the builders, the car as it stands is "technically" a RS COPO w. docs. ZL1 #27 is basically the same thing if this car has also been fabricated from the VIN and that car is "technically" a ZL1 and sold for about 50% of actual value. This COPO also sold for about 50% of actual value as well.

So here is the developing trend - if you have a car to sell with an unknown history or questionable authenticity then expect it to sell for about 50% of actual market value. Even at that price, I am sure it is still very profitable to produce one of these in demand very rare muscle cars.

[/ QUOTE ]

Technically an RS COPO with docs? Rebodies are one thing (which we have talked about to death) but I draw the line on phantom cars.

I don't think there is one jurisdiction in the United States or Canada which would legally allow you to rebuild a car starting with from nothing more than a piece of paper.

[Charley Lillard]

Does anyone really know anything about this car or is it just being trashed without facts ?

[Hylton]

[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone really know anything about this car or is it just being trashed without facts ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Fact is that it sold for half the going price and it was restored by highly contravercial people. What would that tell you?

[COPO PETE]

Wow. What a week-end. I truely believe the RS COPO was the buy of the week-end. Terrible marketing, and previous owner history hurt the car bad. I was shocked to see the car there as I strolled through BJ. Anyone I saw that I knew asked me "Is this the bogus green copo those boyz were trying to sell a few years ago." It is not that car, and my opinion is that I have never ever heard anything negative about this car. It has previous owner history back to at least 1973 from the DMV. I have seen the car at the Camaro Nationals and don't recall any issues with the firewall tag and anything else. I did not check out the motor stamps or anything else. I truely belive this is a no issue car. He STOLE it!!!!!!! The GM of Canada doc he was showing was in one the the prevous owners name that has had some real questionable dealings. He did not market this car well. He should have spent $60 bucks and got a new GM of Canada doc from George. He also should have started a post on this site stating the car was for sale. I was not aware the car was for sale till I saw it there. Car is coming back to Canada as well as the Hemi Cuda. That man made some great buys. Congrats.
Of course this is just my opinion and add that to a $1.50 and it will get a a medium coffe in most establishments in North America!
Was at Russo a couple of hours before the tents went down! What a shame.
Peter

[Charley Lillard]

Tells me nothing. I sat there and watched it sell late when not alot of people were there. Two really good Hemi Mopars sold at that same time cheap also. One sold for 87K. It had been bought for about 100K and Aloha did about a 160K resto on it...Yet it sold for 87K. There were some great deals. Barrett didn't send out a full catalog this year. They sent out a crappy big catalog with a bunch of ads and info on a few cars. You had to find the Copo on their site. Most of us would rather look at a catalog. I'm not going to waste alot of time on the site browsing the cars. If the catalog would have had the Copo listed in it and had been sent out to everyone there probably would have been a discussion thread and maybe real info would have come out ahead of time. Green is not a great selling color either.

[Hylton]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow. What a week-end. I truely believe the RS COPO was the buy of the week-end. Terrible marketing, and previous owner history hurt the car bad. I was shocked to see the car there as I strolled through BJ. Anyone I saw that I knew asked me "Is this the bogus green copo those boyz were trying to sell a few years ago." It is not that car, and my opinion is that I have never ever heard anything negative about this car. It has previous owner history back to at least 1973 from the DMV. I have seen the car at the Camaro Nationals and don't recall any issues with the firewall tag and anything else. I did not check out the motor stamps or anything else. I truely belive this is a no issue car. He STOLE it!!!!!!! The GM of Canada doc he was showing was in one the the prevous owners name that has had some real questionable dealings. He did not market this car well. He should have spent $60 bucks and got a new GM of Canada doc from George. He also should have started a post on this site stating the car was for sale. I was not aware the car was for sale till I saw it there. Car is coming back to Canada as well as the Hemi Cuda. That man made some great buys. Congrats.



[/ QUOTE ]


In light of your information Pete, I am very happy for the new owner. Like Paul and I have stated, previous owner history is key and you have that with respect to this car.

Congrats to the new owner on the buy.

[talwell]

Wow - if it is just truely a result of poor marketing, bad representation by BJ and a restoration by a sketchy person then this sale will be talked about for years to come. For those of us looking to buy a COPO lets hope that this sale sets a new price bar for the cars http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

A real documented RS COPO for $137k - words cannot express what a deal that is.

[Hotrodpaul]

Did the COPO really sell or did the owner buy it back? 137K seems low for a real restored RS COPO Camaro with Canadian Docs.

Paul

[talwell]

[ QUOTE ]
Did the COPO really sell or did the owner buy it back? 137K seems low for a real restored RS COPO Camaro with Canadian Docs.

Paul

[/ QUOTE ]

At that price I would not be surprised if the owner had a friend step in and buy it to protect the sale price on it. If it were my car and the hammer was coming down on that price I would do anything in my power to back out of that sale.

[Mr70]

Paul
Going by what Pete stated earlier,it sounds like it sold to a new owner.
......."Car is coming back to Canada as well as the Hemi Cuda.That man made some great buys.Congrats."

[COPO PETE]

Yup, new owner. He bolted from the back to the front once it stalled at just over $100. If we did not know the guy, I would have thought it was bought back myself.
Peter

[d_n_m69]

Great car!!!Want a steal!! an good luck to the new owner

[markinnaples]

My mistake, was looking at another Camaro RS.

[firstgenaddict]

wow congrats! Sometimes the stars align and a bargain is snapped up in front of the world...

[rpoz11]

[ QUOTE ]
Tells me nothing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am interested in that GM Canada Documentation.

If it is real, I certainly like the L78 origin order sheet documetation declaring this Camaro as a base L78 designation.

This is somethning I wish to see more of in regards to the L72's origin ordering.

Can anyone here state the Doc's listed for this car ae genuine GM Canadfa docs?

[firstgenaddict]

The L72 COPO's were base L78's with exceptions. How these docs read is how all I have seen from Canada have read before including other COPO's.

The silver JL8 Z sold for 122K. If both cars are genuine I would have to agree that someone got the deal of a life time on the COPO.

[showyourauto]

There were more than a few opportunity buys at B-J this year, many of them because the people who knew what they were looking at took advantage of misinformation and bad marketing on behalf of the sellers. This car is one, the black 1969 Hemi Bee was another. It was actually refreshing to see things in the expo tent could be bought with money left in them. ~Patrick

[firez]

I have to agree with CamaroNos anyone in Southern Ontario into GM muscle cars knows all about local cars.

[Lynn]

[ QUOTE ]
The black hemu cuda had options like the billboards and rubber bumper added but a great price. I was high bidder at 75K on a 440 sixpack roadrunner convert and all of a sudden they went to 76K and I never had a chance to bid that I could tell and someone else got it for 76K.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really Charley???

What happened to this guy?

"I hate Mopars..... :-)" Charley Lillard

Something's fishy here.... and the anchovies haven't arrrived yet.