1970 L89 4-speed Nova????????

[southside]

About 2 yrs. ago I purchased a 1970 Nova that was advertised as an "orig. numbers matching L78" car, which had a CKU engine code. I put about 1200 mi. on the car since I've had it and it is a riot!! Anyway, curiosity has got me and I tore it apart. It has what I believe the original 854 casting block and a set of 291 square port heads which are clearly not original. I'll post some photo's and let me know what you guys think.

[southside]

Need help, can't post pictures!?!?!!!

[x Baldwin Motion]

email me the pics.

boats at sagstone dot com

or try this easy picture posting tutorial (http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/199732/an/0/page/0#Post199732)

[southside]

try this

[Fast67VelleN2O]

..... 28 pages later.

[WILMASBOYL78]

You can't do this now...Tibor is on vacation http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[southside]

I can work on cars, not computers!!

[southside]

I guess it's one at a time, Vin #

[southside]

Engine code, there is a sleeve in #4 cylinder, I would say it was lightly decked that's why the T is gone and the 4 is almost gone, nice broach marks!!

[southside]

casting date

[southside]

casting #

[southside]

trim tag

[MosportGreen66]

The pad looks fresh...

[Hotrodpaul]

I think the pad has been filed/sanded down and re-stamped, no broach lines at the end. This is what a good pad looks like:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/Hotrodpaul86/DSCN6485.jpg

Paul

[ron67]

1 of ???

I think I've lost count!

[lowmile]

Neat looking car. Obvious restamped pad, not so neat looking.m http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[southside]

I think the vin # on this picture looke weird. What happened to the 5, why is it a different size?

[92646]

You need to look at the VIN stamp on the trans and compare. I have seen variations of the stamps to some degree over the years.

[vdavie]

I agree. If the guy was going to re-stamp, why would he/they make the 5 like that?

[x Baldwin Motion]

http://www.yenko.net/attachments/443410-tn_101_0188.JPG

long day. Here is the one you sent me Dave. Good Luck!

[Jonesy]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the vin # on this picture looke weird. What happened to the 5, why is it a different size?

[/ QUOTE ]

That is a common anomoly at the LA Plant. All the plants have their own characteristics. That pad is the real deal.

The CKU pad doesnt look right to me.

[Mr70]

southside,I have to ask you this,do to something similar I came across with a 70 L-78 nova in your area.

Is that CKU stamped on a 4 bolt main block?

[WILMASBOYL78]

Where's Tibor..?? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

[kwhizz]

[ QUOTE ]
Where's Tibor..?? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/kwhizz/Jamaica%2010/DSC00330.jpg


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[Xplantdad]

Nice.... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[WILMASBOYL78]

He's my hero http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[southside]

It's funny you talk about the tranny stamp, the vin # is the exact same size but it's not exactly straight. Maybe because it's a little curved there? Note the tranny date is the SAME as the engine date????

[southside]

The car came from the Chicago area about 2 yrs. ago. YES it's an original 4 bolt block, not a converted one. I will take pictures if it would help!!

[southside]

Who the F#*% is Tubor and why is he part of this conversation????????

[GTO_DON]

[ QUOTE ]
Who the F#*% is Tubor and why is he part of this conversation????????

[/ QUOTE ]
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[x Baldwin Motion]

[ QUOTE ]
Who the F#*% is Tubor and why is he part of this conversation????????

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's Tibor.

It's NOT a TUBOR !!
http://dshafa.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/kindergardencop16.jpg



He is the L89 answer man. And the answer is NO !!!

Southside, are you from RVC ?

[WILMASBOYL78]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Who the F#*% is Tubor and why is he part of this conversation????????

[/ QUOTE ]
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

That question should be etched in marble and put in a museum http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Lynn]

[ QUOTE ]
Who the F#*% is Tubor and why is he part of this conversation????????

[/ QUOTE ]

He is Ken Tibor and goes by kwizz on this board (not sure if he got that name because he is REALLY good at something, or if he has a bladder control problem) and he has done a lot of research concerning the possible existence of L89 Novas.

[x Baldwin Motion]

13 posts and using the "F" bomb on Kwizz... is that a new record? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Lynn]

[ QUOTE ]
13 posts and using the "F" bomb on Kwizz... is that a new record? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but it beats the average.

[92646]

Well I can see what direction this post is going, oh well.

[kwhizz]

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/kwhizz/very_nice1.jpg

[MrsBillyBobcat]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Who the F#*% is Tubor and why is he part of this conversation????????

[/ QUOTE ]

He is Ken Tibor and goes by kwizz on this board (not sure if he got that name because he is REALLY good at something, or if he has a bladder control problem) and he has done a lot of research concerning the possible existence of L89 Novas.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe the "whizz" has to do with the Whizzer motorbike http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I had the pleasure to meet and talk to Ken in person this year and he is REALLY good at something...being a kind, decent human being http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[MrsBillyBobcat]

[ QUOTE ]


It's NOT a TUBOR !!
http://dshafa.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/kindergardencop16.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

LMAO! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[m22mike]

[ QUOTE ]
Who the F#*% is Tubor and why is he part of this conversation????????

[/ QUOTE ]

Hay "TUBOR"...that's some funny A$# smack right there.. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Postsedan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Who the F#*% is Tubor and why is he part of this conversation????????

[/ QUOTE ]
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

This thread has got the making for a "Pulitzer Prize" http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

Dan.

[Charley Lillard]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Who the F#*% is Tubor and why is he part of this conversation????????

[/ QUOTE ]

He is Ken Tibor and goes by kwizz on this board (not sure if he got that name because he is REALLY good at something, or if he has a bladder control problem) and he has done a lot of research concerning the possible existence of L89 Novas.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe the "whizz" has to do with the Whizzer motorbike http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I had the pleasure to meet and talk to Ken in person this year and he is REALLY good at something...being a kind, decent human being http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

You have been duped....

[ORIGLS6]

Oh well, it was quiet for a few days. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

I gotta go feed my unicorn.

[ QUOTE ]
It's funny you talk about the tranny stamp, the vin # is the exact same size but it's not exactly straight. Maybe because it's a little curved there? Note the tranny date is the SAME as the engine date????

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it me or does any one else see numbers starting under the 9 and going from there?

[budnate]

how the H... can you tell...every f'n time a motor is in question all the other photos including the dash vin is crystal clear and the pad picture is blurry http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

[Schonyenko2]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Where's Tibor..?? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/kwhizz/Jamaica%2010/DSC00330.jpg


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

That's BS. He was at the Tea party writin stuff on Sarah's hand. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[iluv69s]

When comparing the Vin from the trans. with the vin from the motor, I see a few obvious differences. First, the '0' in the trans VIN is more of an oval than the '0' in engine vin. And the 'W' in the trans vin has the centerpoint extending the same height as the letter itself. The 'W' in the engine vin has this centerpoint extending only about half way up.I wish I had the technology to post both side by side here on this thread...can somone help with that? It seems pretty obvious when comparing side by side...I am p.c. iliterate..hehe

My opinion is the 2 vins were stamped with different stamps.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

[southside]

Are the vin #'s on the engine/trans. stamped at the assembly plant or are they stamped at the engine plant and shipped that way for assembly? I can't understand why someone would restamp a block with a CKU code and then put steel heads on it, should have put the proper CKO code on it. I have some other close up photo's I'll post. Thanks for all the feedback, I love all the different opinions.

[southside]

engine code

[southside]

sucky tranny pictures, I'll try to get better one's today it's still in the car

[Hotrodpaul]

The VIN stamps don't match, the "0" is different, as well as the alignment.

Paul

[old5.0]

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee238/turbo306/homer-eating-popcorn-small-c7873.jpg

[Xplantdad]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh well, it was quiet for a few days. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

I gotta go feed my unicorn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can help if you have to go out of town... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[southside]

There's a '70 L-78 Nova on e-bay right now, it's not a good picture but it does look simular.

[budnate]

Southside now that you have good pics its pretty clear the broach markings are fine back where the headgasket was, so it has not been decked, sure looks like it's nice and smooth and shiney where your stampings are, you can figure this out at this point right?

[southside]

It had paint on the pad, scratches are from razor blade and it's shinny because I've wiped it 1000 times with different cleaners. There is a sleeve in #4 cyl. so it must have been lightly decked at one time, I still have .020 deck clearence with the Speed pro pistons that are in it.

[vdavie]

I was of the understanding that when these things where stamped the folks doing it where not splicing atoms. Did they really put that much effort into getting them all lined up ect..? Maybe we are reading a bit much into it? To read my numbers on my L78 i had to clean and even sand a bit to see the whole numbers, so it has a bit of a shine to it.

[Fast67VelleN2O]

http://www.yenko.net/attachments/443566-tn_101_0187.JPG

As you can see from this picture here.... you can see the faint outline of the PREVIOUS vin number starting under the fouth digit (4) and the letter "C". Just my 2 cents.

[budnate]

everyone knows there is sloppy stampings, if this was decked it would show a decking pattern front to back on the block, if it was original and the elements worked on it, it would be pitted with some broach pattern in it....this pad is polished with no machineing, right up to the original broaching pattern, you dont get a finish like that just removing paint, ...you can believe what you like.

throw a straight edge on the block your going to find that lip low.

[92646]

Has anybody seen a chevelle VIN stamped below the engine code stamp?

[vdavie]

Thats what i was wondering. I have a 70 chevelles also and the vin# is not stamped under it.

[Kim_Howie]

You can wipe that area 100,000 times with any cleaner , and the broach marks will still be there. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[resto4u]

There is a number 5 under the letter K, I would not buy anything like that without seeing in person for closer inspection. Maybe even do a acid test on the engine pad. It would be cool to have a metal density x-ray to highlight previous removed stampings. The technology has to be out there for this testing. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gifRoger

[Mr. Chevy]

The nova on e-bay right now is Item number: 220552658654
I think it is a member's car here.. Nice car, love the color!!

Rich

[1969l78]

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.yenko.net/attachments/443566-tn_101_0187.JPG

As you can see from this picture here.... you can see the faint outline of the PREVIOUS vin number starting under the fouth digit (4) and the letter "C". Just my 2 cents.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree 100%

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

It's a stamp job. Don't worry, just enjoy the car.

[JRSully]

Non orig engine means you can "KILL IT". I swear I am yanking my orig L78 motor and will build a "fun, till the cows come home" motor

[southside]

I think Budnate and a few others are on to something. There is a slight dropoff with the straight edge. I put my magnetic base dial indicator on it and it seems to be about .003 difference from the top of the engine code to the bottom. I agree, it does appear to have had numbers under the code. The magic question we already heard, has anyone ever seen a Chevelle or any other BBC with the vin # stamped under the block code? I think Chevelle's & Nova's are the only ones to have the CKU code. There is no other #'s stamped by the oil filter so it had to be on the pad. As far as enjoying the car, I agree with that to!! I'm almost done building a 1970 "CE" replacement engine with the 854 casting 4-bolt block standard bore, GM L-78 pistons with the .330 dome, GM 6223 steel crank standard on the mains & rods, GM 842 aluminum heads, Lunati hyd. roller cam & valve train with L-88 specs. and the GM 163 intake, check out the attachment, the engine from the car is in the crate on the floor. The car is a ton of fun, it just really pisses me off when people pull shady stuff!!!!

[BUIZILLA]

SCREW THE STAMPS...

COOL PROJECT

[1969L78Nova]

[ QUOTE ]
Non orig engine means you can "KILL IT". I swear I am yanking my orig L78 motor and will build a "fun, till the cows come home" motor

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll dealing with the same issue!!! Now I'm looking for a "Non-Matching Numbers" car that I can truly enjoy when I put the pedal to the metal http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[Salvatore]

You can kill those L78 novas anyhow. They ain't worth much. Its the L89's that count! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[1969l78]

[ QUOTE ]
You can kill those L78 novas anyhow. They ain't worth much. Its the L89's that count! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[Kim_Howie]

David , take it out and have fun with it. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[1969L78Nova]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You can kill those L78 novas anyhow. They ain't worth much. Its the L89's that count! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Damn ...should have bought that 1 of 1 "real" one at Russo and Steele last month http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

[kwhizz]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You can kill those L78 novas anyhow. They ain't worth much. Its the L89's that count! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Damn ...should have bought that 1 of 1 "real" one at Russo and Steele last month http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[Salvatore]

Tubor is baaaack! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[m22mike]

[ QUOTE ]
Tubor is baaaack! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

"TUBOR"... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif I like the new handel Ken... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[x Baldwin Motion]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Tubor is baaaack! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

"TUBOR"... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif I like the new handel Ken... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[/ QUOTE ]




It's NOT TUBOR !!




http://dshafa.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/kindergardencop16.jpg

[budnate]

Kwizz is now known as Tubor... All say I...I , Man Law. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[southside]

Thanks for everyones input, that explains why it was reasonably priced. I had a hunch something was up. The car was advertized as a "driver" and that's exactly what it is, a VERY cool and fun driver. The B/S "numbers matching" still gets me. Either way, it's still a 396/375 block. Can't wait to get the new motor running and for spring to come. Sorry about the Tubor thing, I was on a mission.


----------------------------

'68 Pro Street Nova 509BB
'56 Chevy Gasser Style 427BB
'01 SS Camaro 41K mi.
Fake '70 Nova L89 4-speed ha ha

[m22mike]

David, no need to be sorry. It is a long winter and the "Tubor" thing was fun ( And were not done with that yet http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif)
Sometime I hope you can meet some of these guys, Like Ken, then you'll know why we ran with it http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif
Get that car up and running and pound on it http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[RamAirDave]

To re-open the can of worms on the black Nova from a month or so ago...

The engine pad stamp was given the "OK" by some experts, right?

Heads were wrong, but those can be swapped even if it made the car run like sht. No way to say if they were original (not likely), but I would say there is more validity in a "verified" engine stamp than I would in a set of heads. At least that is what I would focus on.

[kwhizz]

[ QUOTE ]
To re-open the can of worms on the black Nova from a month or so ago...

The engine pad stamp was given the "OK" by some experts, right?

Heads were wrong, but those can be swapped even if it made the car run like sht. No way to say if they were original (not likely), but I would say there is more validity in a "verified" engine stamp than I would in a set of heads. At least that is what I would focus on.

[/ QUOTE ]


Dave........Correct.......Also "Focusing" and documenting the cars past history would have helped http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif......withstanding the fact that the car was built 5 months after the engine option was cancelled by GM.... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[WILMASBOYL78]

Tubor is back..happy days! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[ANDY M]

Not only back, but seeking out new ways to self-promote:
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Porsche-Racing--...0118234002r9471 (http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Porsche-Racing--Tubor-Baseball-Cap-Hat---Black_W0QQitemZ220542011079QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20 100118?IMSfp=TL100118234002r9471)

[kwhizz]

Is there nothing Sacred.......LOL

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/youguysrock.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Charley.gif

[Xplantdad]

That's funny Andy! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[MrsBillyBobcat]

[ QUOTE ]
Tubor is back..happy days! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I had a feeling that name was gonna stick http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Tenney]

[ QUOTE ]
Not only back, but seeking out new ways to self-promote:
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Porsche-Racing--...0118234002r9471 (http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Porsche-Racing--Tubor-Baseball-Cap-Hat---Black_W0QQitemZ220542011079QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20 100118?IMSfp=TL100118234002r9471)

[/ QUOTE ]

Lid of choice whilst at the helm of 997 Twin Tubor (1 of 1 w/cast iron heads) http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[kwhizz]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not only back, but seeking out new ways to self-promote:
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Porsche-Racing--...0118234002r9471 (http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Porsche-Racing--Tubor-Baseball-Cap-Hat---Black_W0QQitemZ220542011079QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20 100118?IMSfp=TL100118234002r9471)

[/ QUOTE ]

Lid of choice whilst at the helm of 997 Twin Tubor (1 of 1 w/cast iron heads) http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif Cast Iron Heads http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/youguysrock.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Charley.gif