Pontiac's SD 455

[ssl78396]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
Hmmmm..
Wow..
Pontiac's Trans Am SD 455 all over ebay 100g's+
What's up with that http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Well I guess will see what reality is.. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[njsteve]

The 74's don't go for nearly as much as the 73s do, even when they're really nice with 16,000 miles.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pontiac-T...s#ht_632wt_1167 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pontiac-Trans-Am-SuperDuty455-1974-Super-Duty-455-100-Orig-1-Owner-16K-Orig-PaintMINT_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2eabb81498QQi temZ200449463448QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks#ht_632wt_1 167)

And the 73's that have appeared on ebay lately have been in need of some major work. Like this one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160412003411

They keep dropping their buy-it-now price every few days. Started at $125K in last auction, then went to $95K, this morning is was reset to $89K. If the quarters look that bad in the photos I can't imagine how bad they are in person. And do you really think a Jeep dealer correctly rebuilt the SD455 engine in that car? That's like having your local Autozone rebuild your ZL1 engine.

[69 Post Sedan]

My cousin has a white 74 SD. That was the first car I ever drove with an automatic that was bone stock and would tear up 2nd gear! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif

[L78steve]

I had a 74 SD back in the 80s. In stock form it was a turd. With a true dual exhaust system, 041 spec cam, carb rods,open up the shaker and a distributor re-curve, Hold on.

[1970Bluel78]

[ QUOTE ]
I had a 74 SD back in the 80s. In stock form it was a turd. With a true dual exhaust system, 041 spec cam, carb rods,open up the shaker and a distributor re-curve, Hold on.

[/ QUOTE ]
You must have had a lemon. My buddy bought one new ( still has it ) That car lights em up at will. The dist is recurved and the scoop opened also, but otherwise all stock

[RichSchmidt]

They are very rare cars,more rare then Yenko/Copo cars.70 thru 73 Firebirds have a rabid following that rivals or exceeds that of their first gen counterparts.The SD cars were the last of the Muscle era Muscle cars,and were legitimatly fast in the road tests of the day,because of the fact that the engines were powerful,combined with the fact that the much wider radial tires gave them much better showroom stock traction then bogblock cars of just a few years earlier that ran on 6 inch tread with bias plys.Mid 13's in off the showroom floor trim with road and track type drivers is faster then the majority of off the floor 454 Chevelles and Hemi Cuda's of that era.In today's market any muscle car going over 100K has to be the cream of the crop,but in all fairness the 73 SD cars are among the best,and are much more sought after then the much more garden variety 454 4 barrel T/A's and Formulas of that year,so I could see them commanding top dollar.Remeber that we are talking about some of the best performing muscle cars with what could be only double digit numbers of remaining examples.

[Steve Shauger]

SD are unique, but for roughly half the price and just as fast I rather buy a couple of 71-72 TA, 455HO's.

[southernfriedcj]

[ QUOTE ]
...and are much more sought after then the much more garden variety 454 4 barrel T/A's and Formulas of that year

[/ QUOTE ]

A factory 454 Trans Am is indeed a rare Bird! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Keith Tedford]

I think I read somewhere that the very early road test SD cars were ringers with a different cam. They were running mid 13s when anything else in '73-'74 couldn't get out of its own way. It seems that even the production ones ran pretty well. In the sixties, Pontiac wasn't above a little creative advertising as in the Ferrari-GTO road test comparison so nothing surprises me there. In '68, I had a warmed over RA 400 Firebird, later a '69 GTO, and more recently a '72 Lemans Sport with a warmed over '70 455. These can be mild mannered, smooth as glass to drive and still run 12s with very little work done to them. Not bad for a basic design from the '50s. Those 454 Firebirds were built here in Canada where they built the 302 Firebirds that Titus raced in the TransAm series in the late '60s. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[GTO_DON]

[ QUOTE ]
SD are unique, but for roughly half the price and just as fast I rather buy a couple of 71-72 TA, 455HO's.

[/ QUOTE ]Steve I hear ya but you and everyone else here is forgetting the fact this is a true survivor car with 16 thousand miles! Any 71-72 T/A with 16k on it would be in the 80-90 range also and this car id well optioned with the very rare cloth inserts on the seats which I believe only a handful were built. I think if it was a 73 T/A with these miles the owner would be asking 130-140 for it. Personally I think its a great car and I like the 74's as much as the 73's.My whole issue with the car is the fact it has to stay in a garage and you cant drive the http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif[censored] out of it like it was built to do. Great car with nice pedigree and colors is JMHO BTW My old 77 Bandit car which is a nothing car but way cool with 10,000 miles on it just sold at auction for over 62,000 http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif so maybe this T/a isnt that high. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[1969z280]

I want to own a Super Duty. I keep waiting for the prices to go down and they keep going the wrong way. Check out the Mecum Auction website. There are a number of SD, HO and RA IV cars coming. It looks like Pontiac heaven to me. This particular 74 looks to be a great car and a Survivor but, at that price hopefully it was never rust-proofed or under-coated. I'd like to see the red oxide. JMO, Ed

[L78steve]

This is correct the early test cars got the 041 spec. cams installed. All were supposed to get that cam but emissions nixed it for the 744 spec. cam instead,which is still no slouch.The board on the shaker and the crossflow muffler system killed the performance even more,I'm sure the test cars had this opened up. The quad air valve would never fully open in stock form.[ QUOTE ]
I think I read somewhere that the very early road test SD cars were ringers with a different cam. They were running mid 13s when anything else in '73-'74 couldn't get out of its own way. It seems that even the production ones ran pretty well. In the sixties, Pontiac wasn't above a little creative advertising as in the Ferrari-GTO road test comparison so nothing surprises me there. In '68, I had a warmed over RA 400 Firebird, later a '69 GTO, and more recently a '72 Lemans Sport with a warmed over '70 455. These can be mild mannered, smooth as glass to drive and still run 12s with very little work done to them. Not bad for a basic design from the '50s. Those 454 Firebirds were built here in Canada where they built the 302 Firebirds that Titus raced in the TransAm series in the late '60s. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

[StealthBird]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I read somewhere that the very early road test SD cars were ringers with a different cam.

[/ QUOTE ]

The original road test cars were not ringers, they were pre-production models that used the RAIV cam. This was the intended setup for the SD-455. The SD-455 story is fascinating, and a tribute to how grit and determination by a few engineers allowed these cars to be built.

The pre-production SD-455 Trans Am's were built with the RAIV cam, and they passed the EPA emissions test. But the EPA discovered that Pontiac engineers rigged the EGR valve to close after approximately 50 seconds, which just happened to be a few seconds after the standard EPA emissions test was complete. The government was not amused, and they failed to certify the SD-455 for production. Pontiac then had to go back and re-do the setup, elminating the RAIV cam, assigning a new casting number to the intake manifold, and get the whole thing re-certified by the EPA. This is what caused the SD-455 introduction to be delayed, so these cars did not appear until very late in the 1973 model year. Also, because the certification process was so lengthy, and anything from a simple air cleaner change to hood change had to be re-certified, Pontiac decided to build the Formula SD-455 cars with the Trans Am hood, which had already passed the EPA tests (that's the reason the Formula SD-455 cars did not come with the Formula twin-scooped fiberglass hoods).

But in the meantime, the pre-production SD-455 Trans Am's made the rounds in auto magazines, and ripped off mid-high 13 second blasts completely stock (with the exception of an open hood scoop). Amazing performance for an engine with 8 to 1 compression, in a car weighing 3800 lbs, with a steel intake manifold, 3.42 gears, restrictive exhaust, an auto trans, and stock tires.

But when Pontiac had to remove the RAIV cam and put in their boiler plate special .408 lift cam, the cars slowed to around 14 seconds flat in the 1/4 mile. Still amazing performance considering all the other handicaps mentioned above. No cars were delivered with the RAIV cam. The SD-455 engines were quite special, and they weren't simply parts thrown onto a standard 455 engine. The SD-455 used a special block, connecting rods, distributor, carb, intake, heads, and camshaft.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[1970Bluel78]

How about a 1973 GTO with the SD-455 ?? Cars Mag, car of the year. I was told 3 mules were made but the car never saw production. Too bad

[Xplantdad]

I'd rather have a Formula 455 SD...One of CHarley's friends had one...it was blue! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[markjohnson]

I absolutely LOVE the Formula SD455 cars!

[1969z280]

Check this one out:

Mecum 1973 SD Formula (http://www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_detail.cfm?LOT_ID=SC0510-90202&entryRow=632)

[StealthBird]

Another oddity : The 1973 SD-455 GTO was that the SD-455 engine was scheduled for the Lemans, GTO, and Grand Am ONLY, not available in any other Pontiac. Pontiac sent a 73 SD-455 GTO to CARS Magazine, they proclaimed it "Performance Car Of The Year", but by the time the issue hit the newsstands, Pontiac had already notified their dealers that the SD-455 would not be available in ANY A-body, and all of the engines were going into the F-body Formulas and Trans Am's (Pontiac also canceled the availability of the 1973 GTO/Grand Am Ram Air setup, a system that supposed to be exclusive to the SD-455 engine. A few SD-455 A-Body Ram Air setups were later thrown into the parts bins, and about a dozen were sold).

By the way, people always ask about the difference between the 1973 and 1974 SD-455's, as the 1973 was rated at 310 hp, the 1974 was rated at 290 hp. In reality, they were all 290 hp, but press releases and promotional material had already been released with the 310 hp rating from when the car was supposed to receive the RAIV cam. The 1973 and 1974 engines are identical.

Pontiac Engineers produced over 500hp on the dyno using headers and a RAIV valvetrain setup, and the production engine produced around 350 NET hp, and over 400 NET hp once the exhaust was removed, which places this engine on the same level as the greatest powerplants of the 1962-1970 era. Amazing considering the lousy EGR steel intake manifold, pathetic 8:1 compression, and .408 lift cam. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

[njsteve]

[/ QUOTE ]Steve I hear ya but you and everyone else here is forgetting the fact this is a true survivor car with 16 thousand miles! Any 71-72 T/A with 16k on it would be in the 80-90 range also and this car id well optioned with the very rare cloth inserts on the seats which I believe only a handful were built. I think if it was a 73 T/A with these miles the owner would be asking 130-140 for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Original low mileage is pure gold. But I'd still drive it with the low miles - they need the exercise/maintenance.

I think the reason the 74 market is soft is that it just isn't an attractive looking front end with the 5-mph bumper look and the slant nose. The 70-73 styling is so much nicer (and this comes from a guy with a '75 bird that my Grandmother bought new).

http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr24/nk15268b/firebird75001c.jpg (http://s466.photobucket.com/albums/rr24/nk15268b/?action=view&current=firebird75001c.jpg)

The 70-73 is so much hotter looking:

http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr24/nk15268b/72frontpass3411-20-04A.jpg (http://s466.photobucket.com/albums/rr24/nk15268b/?action=view&current=72frontpass3411-20-04A.jpg)

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Steve Shauger]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
SD are unique, but for roughly half the price and just as fast I rather buy a couple of 71-72 TA, 455HO's.

[/ QUOTE ]Steve I hear ya but you and everyone else here is forgetting the fact this is a true survivor car with 16 thousand miles! Any 71-72 T/A with 16k on it would be in the 80-90 range also and this car id well optioned with the very rare cloth inserts on the seats which I believe only a handful were built. I think if it was a 73 T/A with these miles the owner would be asking 130-140 for it. Personally I think its a great car and I like the 74's as much as the 73's.My whole issue with the car is the fact it has to stay in a garage and you cant drive the http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif[censored] out of it like it was built to do. Great car with nice pedigree and colors is JMHO BTW My old 77 Bandit car which is a nothing car but way cool with 10,000 miles on it just sold at auction for over 62,000 http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif so maybe this T/a isnt that high. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Don, my comment was meant in a general sense. I was not referring to this car. I wasn't questioning the price of this car specifically (I did not even review the ad, and you know I love survivors). My point was that SD's are close to twice the price of a comparable HO. I am going to look at the car ad now. I do have some room http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif....

[StealthBird]

Steve, I actually disagree with you, I think the 74's are just as cool as the 73's! I like the 74 nose and tail. The 75's are ok, I never cared for the parking lights in the grille, but I think the sour note for me on the 75's is that they signaled the beginning of the catalytic converter, massive drop in horsepower, and the end of the SD-455. But the 75's are still pretty cool.

I think the 73's always go for more money than 74's because they shared the 70-72 design, which was still attached to the 1970-earlier Musclecar Era. The 74's seem to get lumped into the 75-76 era because they shared similar design cues.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[442w30]

I think the '72 has the nicest grille.

And I'd take a SD Formula over a T/A any day - make mine a '73 stick car!

[drdave69]

I would take any 1970 - 1974 T/A or Formula 455. I owned a 1974 455 car many years ago and LOVED it.

[WILMASBOYL78]

Back in 73-74 I worked at a local Chevron station and one of the customers had an early 70's Formula 455...awesome car. 4 speed, honeycomb wheels, dark brown paint....it really ran. He let me help him do some performance upgrades and I even got to drive it a few times http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

That car has always had a special place in my memories...wish I owned it today http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif

wilma http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Salvatore]

Sell one of your children and buy one. No need to own lots and lots of novas. Expand your horizon young man! Start unzipping the bags and let em go! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[GTO_DON]

[ QUOTE ]
Sell one of your children and buy one. No need to own lots and lots of novas. Expand your horizon young man! Start unzipping the bags and let em go! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[/ QUOTE ]ARe we talking about Sperm donations here???? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Are they paying enuff to buy a SD T/A???? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[king_midas]

Long stroke engines, such as the 455, are hurt much less by the loss of CR than a shorter-stroke variant.

While more compression would give more power in a racing tune, the compromises such as timing curve and valve timing are much less with the low-comp engine. And there's much less of a compromise with the torque curve because of the displacement.

[al8apex]

I worked at the main Pontiac plant complex as a co-op student going to General Motors Institute (now Kettering University) back then (71-74). One of the engineers had a 4 speed Grand Am with a SD in it (his name totally escapes me, not Herb Adams, although he was an instructor at GMI). The engine build area was in a locked cage in the middle of the "normal" engine production area. Apparently too many of the good "purple" parts were walking out the gate ...

You wouldn't believe the cool stuff that was in the engineering recycle bin area (locked cage again) side pipes, Weber intakes, etc, etc.

The one plant had a large scale recycle line ... NOS parts from the parts depot (that were discontinued) were sent down a line and all aluminum, stainless, etc were pulled ... I remember seeing NOS 58 Impala side spears being disassembled to pull the leaping deer (Impala) from the stainless trim. Clocks, trim, etc, etc, tons of NOS stuff being recycled, it was amazing and no, we weren't allowed to "save" anything, even if we had one of what they were destroying ...

[StealthBird]

I remember way back in 1974, my brother had a 69 GTO that he used to run occasionally at a local track in Ontario, Canada. He ran steady mid-14's, no posi, the car had 50,000 miles. I actually have home movies of that car running his friends 69 Dart 340, they were dead even. Anyway, when the SD-455's came out, my brother had NO respect for these 8:1 compression "new" cars, and he thought it was ridiculous how the magazines were touting them as "old Musclecar power". As luck would have it, a brand new Buccaneer Red SD-455 Trans Am appeared at the track one weekend. Since the track did not have board lights to announce the et's, we watched it run a couple times, thought it was SLOW. It made no noise, at least nothing we could hear in the grandstands, as most cars ran open headers back then. We found the car in the pits, and my brother sort of laughed that someone would bring a "new" car to the track. I remember it had a black interior, auto trans, and a/c (which meant it had a 3.08 posi). We assumed it would run high 15's. The driver's side window was down, and it smelled new.

So with about 40 to 1 odds of actually lining up with this lone SD-455 car, my brother actually got paired up with the Trans Am. I was riding shotgun (local track, they didn't care), and my brother told me to watch the Trans Am (passenger side) and tell him how much he was beating him by. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

We launched, and the Trans Am immediately jumped about a car length (remember, my brother's car had no posi), we pulled up a little in the mid range, then stayed even on the top end, then the Trans Am actually pulled a little on us. I didn't have much to report to my brother while going down the track, the Trans Am was right there the whole way! We picked up the time slip, and my brother ran a 14.41 at 96 mph, the Trans Am ran a 14.32 at 98 mph.

My brother was stunned, and a little embarrassed. The smog motored, ultra quiet, 4000 lb, brand new car with about 500 miles on the odometer defeated my brothers mighty 69 GTO. When we later found out the a/c equipped cars had 3.08 gears, we were impressed beyond belief. With a 3.42 gear and an open scoop, we figured 14.0's were quite possible.

Simply amazing performance, especially considering all the handicaps the SD-455's were straddled with. The SD-455 is still the most impressive performer of the era in my opinion. It wasn't the fastest Musclecar ever in stock trim, but considering how far it was from being "maximized" from the factory, hindered by a .408 lift cam, 8:1 compression, an EGR intake, not even a cold air induction setup, it's quite impressive.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[njsteve]

[ QUOTE ]
I worked at the main Pontiac plant complex as a co-op student going to General Motors Institute (now Kettering University) back then (71-74). One of the engineers had a 4 speed Grand Am with a SD in it (his name totally escapes me, not Herb Adams, although he was an instructor at GMI).

[/ QUOTE ]

If only that car survived!

GTO DON probably has more info but I believe they made 2 of those before they cancelled the SD engine option in the A-body line and redirected them only into the Firebirds. Cars Magazine voted that car the Performance Car of the Year and it went to print even though the car/option was cancelled.

http://www.abodysite.com/73sd455lit.html

http://www.highperformancepontiac.com/features/hppp_1001_1973_pontiac_gto/index.html

[PeteLeathersac]

I saw that clone '73 SD GTO in the above link advertised for sale last fall here in Ontario Canada..

Here's another cool article worth reading...

http://www.tachrev.com/GrandAm1973Nascar.htm


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif
~ Pete

[markjohnson]

I tell 'ya the car that SHOULD have been built........the 1974 GTO SD-455. Now that would have been one heck of a car! I've always had a soft spot for those much-ignored Nova-based '74 GTO's. My father actually purchased a very nice '74 GTO with it's standard 350/Auto drivetrain and Shaker hood that was to be my first car for me when I was 16 years old. It was actually much too nice of a car to be handed over to an in-mature driver such as myself as I was wanting something faster and not quite as nice. Anway, it would have been neat for the last year of the GTO to possibly have been the fastest factory one ever built! The '74 GTO DESERVED that SD-455 and it should have happened!

[PeteLeathersac]

[ QUOTE ]
I tell 'ya the car that SHOULD have been built........the 1974 GTO SD-455. Now that would have been one heck of a car! I've always had a soft spot for those much-ignored Nova-based '74 GTO's. My father actually purchased a very nice '74 GTO with it's standard 350/Auto drivetrain and Shaker hood that was to be my first car for me when I was 16 years old. It was actually much too nice of a car to be handed over to an in-mature driver such as myself as I was wanting something faster and not quite as nice. Anway, it would have been neat for the last year of the GTO to possibly have been the fastest factory one ever built! The '74 GTO DESERVED that SD-455 and it should have happened!

[/ QUOTE ]

Right on Mark!.
I always wanted to build a '74 Olds Omega w/ a 455 Oldsie and/or a '74 Buick Apollo w/ a 455 Buick lump too...both stick cars of course!.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif
~ Pete
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[StealthBird]

The SD-455 would have been WAY too much for the 74 GTO, but it's a shame that Pontiac didn't drop in the standard 400 that was being used across nearly the entire Pontiac line. Just with the extra 50 cubes, the car would have been a high 14 second performer.

I like the 74's!!!

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[L78steve]

I remember seeing a Pontiac Grand Am ad in 73 bumping the soft nose with a SD455 badge over the fender side marker lamp.

[Jack_Tar]

If anyone is interested, I know of two '73 SD cars for sale as a pair for 200k.

[olredalert]

------I ordered a 73 Grand Am SD. Obviously, even after a loooong wait I didnt get it. Would have been sweet. Rather than get something cool I then went and ordered a new 73 Riviera with the Gran Sport engine and package. What a load. I still, to this day, dont know why I went down that road. Kept the car about 5 months and traded for a 72 TA from a rather famous Akron Oh. Pontiac dealer (Knafel). It was actually his wifes driver for about 9 months. Still think about what might have been with the Grand Am SD........Bill S