what 454 is this?

[XXXGoldL34M20]

my friend has a motor running in his car and wanted some help in finding out what 454 he has. the pad in front of the passenger head is decked so no numbers there.
Casting at the back of the block by the bell housing is 3963512 K-7-9 which is a 454 dated November 7 1969.
now there is a Vin# on the pad near the oil filter which reads 10S189855 which breaks down as 1=Chevrolet 0=1970 S=St.Louis and 189855 would be the Vin# to ?
is this a 454 for a corvette or impala and if so what horse power rating is it.
the top end has a low rise GM aluminum intake with Hi Horse Square port heads but it does have the smaller oil pick up hole so i am guessing it is a 2 bolt main with the hi horse top end installed.
judging by the Vin# it is to high to be a corvette 454 so maybe it is a impala 454. what was the difference between the 390 HP vs. 345 HP 454.
any help appreciated.
attached is a photo of the Vin# by the oil filter.

[XXXGoldL34M20]

here is a photo of the oil pick up hole.

[WILMASBOYL78]

Dan, the 345 horse 454 had the low lift hydraulic cam...I believe the same one used in the 325hp 396 motors. If this engine has the rect.port heads and 569 intake, then perhaps the cam was upgraded too. Since you said it was a running engine...does it sound like solid lifters..?? Since you mentioned the block was decked you may find that someone used the 2 bolt block and built it to LS6 specs...

What kind of vehicle is this 454 in now..???

wilma

[XXXGoldL34M20]

[ QUOTE ]
Dan, the 345 horse 454 had the low lift hydraulic cam...I believe the same one used in the 325hp 396 motors. If this engine has the rect.port heads and 569 intake, then perhaps the cam was upgraded too. Since you said it was a running engine...does it sound like solid lifters..?? Since you mentioned the block was decked you may find that someone used the 2 bolt block and built it to LS6 specs...

What kind of vehicle is this 454 in now..???

wilma

[/ QUOTE ]

the motor is in my friends 1970 Chevelle SS 454 LS6 car.
it does have solid lifters and cam.
we are trying to get as much info as we can as my friend will be searching for a 4 bolt main block soon and may want to take this block out and sell it. we clearly know it is not a matching motor to his car but if he pulls this motor out he wants to be honest in telling people what it is if he plans to sell it. i would really like to know were that Vin# would belong knowing it came from a ST. Louis Plant.
i also popped the valve covers off and both heads are different,one is a 3919840 D-3-8 and 3964291 F-6-9.
the only piece that matches his car is the correct low rise GM intake.the carb is a 3893229 3613 653 from a 1966 motor.
so as you can see this motor was pieced together but it does have good components to sell or trade off.

[WILMASBOYL78]

So, if your friends car is a real LS6 car with the wrong motor...then should we assume he will be looking for a dated LS6 block and components to replace this motor...??

The current motor should bring decent money from someone looking for a good BB...as for VIN stamps...they are either on the front pad or on the rough cast surface near the oil filter...the Corvette/Fullsize guys can take it from here.

All the correct dated parts will cost a few bucks...good luck.

[XXXGoldL34M20]

[ QUOTE ]
So, if your friends car is a real LS6 car with the wrong motor...then should we assume he will be looking for a dated LS6 block and components to replace this motor...??

The current motor should bring decent money from someone looking for a good BB...as for VIN stamps...they are either on the front pad or on the rough cast surface near the oil filter...the Corvette/Fullsize guys can take it from here.

All the correct dated parts will cost a few bucks...good luck.

[/ QUOTE ]
the first post shows the photo of the VIN by the oil filter.
my friend will decide sooner or later if he wants to go for the LS6 Components as he knows they aren't cheap.
now that we know it is a LS5 motor the question is what car would the 10S189855 belong to ? I've been told its to high of a number for 1970 Corvette's and it may fall in line with a 1970 Impala. can anyone confirm were the sequence of this Vin# would fall for which type of Chevrolet,Being it is assembled in ST. Louis?

[beater68427]

In my eye if its not numbers matching it not numbers matching! if it has the correct parts on top and runs good leave it alone and enjoy it, funny how times change seems there are more documented numbers cars than GM ever made now days, The factory hot rods were just that, they lived many days on the drag strip most blown up parts changed things switched out. I guess a good question is what your friend is looking to do? If he just wants a 4 bolt main engine or trying to ??????

[RichSchmidt]

Before you start pawning off the engine,check to see the dates on the heads and intake.If they are within a month or two before the build date of the car,and he is fairly sure it is a bigblock car,maybe it is the numbers matching top end.I think the 375 hp 396 and the LS6 might have had the same heads and intake,but different camshafts.If the car ate a short blok early on,it could have been replaced with a lower performance one with all the high po stff added on.

[WILMASBOYL78]

[ QUOTE ]
Before you start pawning off the engine,check to see the dates on the heads and intake.If they are within a month or two before the build date of the car,and he is fairly sure it is a bigblock car,maybe it is the numbers matching top end.I think the 375 hp 396 and the LS6 might have had the same heads and intake,but different camshafts.If the car ate a short blok early on,it could have been replaced with a lower performance one with all the high po stff added on.

[/ QUOTE ]

He listed the casting numbers and dates for the heads...one is a 1968 #840 head, so the top end is not original. The LS6 and L78 shared the same #143 camshaft....depending upon how the car is used, it might be cheaper to just leave it alone and drive it.

wilma

[PeteLeathersac]

[ QUOTE ]
...Vin# on the pad near the oil filter which reads 10S189855 which breaks down as 1=Chevrolet 0=1970 S=St.Louis and 189855 would be the Vin# to ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep must be a B-Body Vin as '70 'Vette sequential six ran from 100001 to 128566 also not a '70 St. Louis truck either as their Vins had different year indicator digits..

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif
~ Pete

[1967 Impala]

Could also be out of a Monte Carlo..the SS 454 had the LS5 as an option did it not?

[PeteLeathersac]

But did they build Montes or any A-Body cars at a St. Louis plant in 1970?.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif
~ Pete

[XXXGoldL34M20]

Thank you guys for the input.
My friend has decided to leave this motor in the car,he figured why waste all the money and time to take this motor out and then find an LS6 motor and components when in the end it will still be a non matching motor car just the same.
but it would be still interesting if someone can answer the original question of this thread.
...Vin# on the pad near the oil filter which reads 10S189855 which breaks down as 1=Chevrolet 0=1970 S=St.Louis plant and 189855 Vin# (to which Chevrolet model would this motor belong to?)
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
1-i am pretty sure that 1970 Chevelles or Monte Carlos were never built from the St.Louis Plant so there out of the picture.
2-also the Vin# is to high for a 1970 Corvette.
3-does anyone here have a 1970 454 Impala to share the Vin# so i can compare it to the above one.

[SS427]

Unless I am missing something and based on the VIN alone it could only be from an Impala or Caprice and either a 345 or 390 horse.

[1967 Impala]

[ QUOTE ]
But did they build Montes or any A-Body cars at a St. Louis plant in 1970?.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif
~ Pete

[/ QUOTE ]

My Bad duh http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[XXXGoldL34M20]

I went over to Team Impala and asked the only member of a 1970 454 Impala on that forum about this motor through an email.
He did respond telling me that it is actually a 1970 Vin# for a 1970 Impala/Caprice or Station Wagon.
he also told me that in 1970,the production for the LS5 in an Impala/Caprice or Station Wagon were only 2,459 cars,this is the combined number for 345 HP + 390 HP LS5'S.
There was no SS in 1970 for the above models.
pretty good to know that the motor is a rare one for an Impala/Caprice or Station Wagon guy.
Thanks guys for all your help,i have my question answered.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[XXXGoldL34M20]

[ QUOTE ]
I went over to Team Impala and asked the only member of a 1970 454 Impala on that forum about this motor through an email.
He did respond telling me that it is actually a 1970 Vin# for a 1970 Impala/Caprice or Station Wagon.
he also told me that in 1970,the production for the LS5 in an Impala/Caprice or Station Wagon were only 2,459 cars,this is the combined number for 345 HP + 390 HP LS5'S.
There was no SS in 1970 for the above models.
pretty good to know that the motor is a rare one for an Impala/Caprice or Station Wagon guy.
Thanks guys for all your help,i have my question answered.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Update from above post.
there were 2 different 454'S in the St.Louis built plant for big passenger cars (Biscayne/Caprice/Impala/Station Wagon)
1-LS4 345 HP production total 14,280 units
2-LS5 390 HP production total 2,459 units
=for a total of 16,739 units

There really is not that big of a difference in the LS4 vs. LS5. The comp.ratio, heads, are the same.
The Cam and Rear Gear ratio were different.
Rear gear: LS-4 2.56 LS-5 2.73
Cam shaft: Lift: .3983 I-----.4300E LS-4
.4614 I-----.4800E LS-5
The distributors were different also,with timing being a 2 deg. difference.

thank you Dale from Chevellestuff
thank you Graig from Team Impala
now i have it figured out http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif