ZL-1 block versus Can-Am block?

[DandyDon]

A hot rod acquaintance has a 1969-1970 vintage Aluminum BBC motor. He claims it came from Bill Jenkin's shop many years ago and has just been rebuilt. I assumed it was an over-the-counter ZL-1 block but he referred to it as a "Can-Am" block. Are these the same blocks? If not,what are the differences?
He said the Can-Am block was used by Jim Hall in the Chapparal program.
Any thoughts?

Thanks- DandyDon

Off hand, the Can Am block should have a larger bore (sleeve) size -- 4.440-inches versus 4.25-inches for the ZL1. The original Can Am engine was built with a short stroke (3.47...I think, but I'm getting old) for a final displacement of 430 cubic inches, but that changed quickly.....a 4.0-inch 454 crank produced a 494. And as we all know, there's "no replacement for displacement" <g>. IIRC there are other differences, but that's the big one.

Wayne

[PeteLeathersac]

Jenkins did run CanAm blocks...is there truth to where it came from?.
What's the casting #?.
Is there a provision in the block for a mechanical fuel pump?.
Lance 'midyr' on this site may be able to share some insight as he ran a few of these blocks back in the day and ended up w/ what was left of Geo. Eaton's CanAm stuff..

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif
~ Pete

[John Brown]

I don't think the Can-Am blocks had any provisions to mount a fuel pump on the block either.

[Kim_Howie]

I don't think they have side motor mount bosses. From what I can remember on them. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[Kim_Howie]

The motor that was in my 70 Camaro was a Can Am motor. Dave libby told me that it was. The pictures taken in 1970 prove that. The block had no winters flake on it and has a fuel pump where the fuel pump mounting boss is. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[John Brown]

From CRG.... http://www.camaros.org/copo.shtml talking about ZL1 production engines vs Can Am engines.

[ QUOTE ]
In production form, the engine differed from Can-Am configuration. The dry-sump oil passage was eliminated and provision for a mechanical fuel pump added. Production tooling was developed for the block (castings #3946052/53), cylinder heads (#3946074), and intake manifold (#3933198). A new aluminum water pump was to be included (and at least one and perhaps two Camaros were built with it), but last minute testing raised reliability questions.

Chevrolet continued to develop the Can-Am version of the aluminum big block for racing, progressing to a liner-less 390-alloy block buildable in displacements of 430, 441, 494 and 510 cubic inches. These did not have provision for a mechanical fuel pump. They were never used in production and few were produced.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.v8buick.com/images/smilies/bla.gif

[PeteLeathersac]

Here's the block casting #'s and info I've collected..
Please feel free to add the missing & more info also clarify and/or correct any mistakes..


Can-Am blocks 68/69 - Reynolds
# 0-294550 = Linerless?
# 0-321270 = Linerless?
# O-326711 = 4.44" bore with steel liners (427 ci)

Can-Am blocks 70/71 - Reynolds?.
# O-399204 = 4.5" bore and steel liners (509 ci)
# O-495102 = 4.5" bore and no liners

ZL-1 Factory blocks - 1969 - Winters
# 3946052 (No 'O') 427 ci.

ZL-1 Factory blocks - 1997 & up
# 3946053 (No 'O') 427 ci.

# 3992038 (O?) * may be 4.44" bore w/ Liners - era?.

# ? - Yenko - Casting has YENKO
# ? - Yenko - Casting has Y E N K O
# ? - Yenko - Casting has Yenko Crest Logo

# 3946502 is the # quoted on the Guinn's Engineering site but the # is actually 3946052 as shown in their pics..

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif
~ Pete

--------------------
I like real cars best...especially the REAL real ones!

[Kim_Howie]

Here is a pic taken by Jon Asher in 1971. please note no winters flake & fuel pump boss. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[Charley Lillard]

What's this ? http://www.yenko.net/attachments/453672-005.JPG

[Kim_Howie]

Kinda looks like some #s cast in alumium. Other than that have no clue. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[69SSZL1]

I have a NOS GM Can Am camshaft that is also from Bill Jenkins shop. The most radical cam ever made by GM!

[olredalert]

----Charley,,,Is the second 7 really a seven??? It is obviously different than the other 7. Just wondering........Bill S

[Charley Lillard]

I would say yes.

[William]

The true 'Can-Am' block is the unit Hot Rod magazine did a tech feature on in the Sep 1972 issue: no liners, no fuel pump.

Can-Am racers did not use the standard fuel pump so if an aluminum block has the provision it's not the Can-Am version.

[PeteLeathersac]

If it works, this is the pic Lance 'midyr' posted here previously of some of the stuff he got from Geo. Eaton's CanAm team..

http://www.yenko.net/attachments/425524-430CanAmblocks%26headsDec1969pic2.jpg

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif
~ Pete

[chet urbanek]

Here is some information on Yenko's ca am engine, I have owned this engine for 40 years, bought from an old drag racer, whose name is long forgotten. The engine now sits in my 1969 camaro, some call it a Yenko ZL1. It has the 4.44 bore with a 454 steel crank, ( near 500 c.i. ) The casting seems to read 3946052, same as a ZL1. I was told this is an early engine, that when Yenko bought the molds, chevy told Don to lose the winter snow flake, but forgot to tell him to change the casting number, which Do did changing it to 3946053. This engine has ZL1 aluminum heads, intake, with a 850 holly carb. pictures to come118460

118461

118462

118463

118464 soon

[William]

ZL1 blocks were cast by Winters under two part numbers; 3946052 & 3946053. Production ZL1 Camaros can have either. Yenko did not change it.

[Martin]

My friend has a complete disassembled '73 Can Am engine, aluminium bores, no mech. fuel pump provision. I can take pictures of any particular details if anybody wanted them.

[SuperNovaSS]

I have had 2 big bore blocks and both were 052 casting and externally identical to a 4.25 block.

Jason

[rcalzaretta62]

I have the Reynolds Aluminum Block that came from Grumpy's Toy IV that won the 1970 Winternationals and documentation/pictures from the Peterson Archive with this exact engine in the car. It is a 0-326711 block and what Bill was running at the time. I heard Bill didn't like the ZL-1 block and had something to do with heat transfer causing them to lose power as the day went on. I have been in contact with the current owners of Grumpy's Toy IV to see if they are interested in it before I put in my car. I would post some pictures, just not sure how to add them.

[RALLY]

I have the Reynolds Aluminum Block that came from Grumpy's Toy IV that won the 1970 Winternationals and documentation/pictures from the Peterson Archive with this exact engine in the car. It is a 0-326711 block and what Bill was running at the time. I heard Bill didn't like the ZL-1 block and had something to do with heat transfer causing them to lose power as the day went on. I have been in contact with the current owners of Grumpy's Toy IV to see if they are interested in it before I put in my car. I would post some pictures, just not sure how to add them.

That is awesome you have that Reynolds Aluminum block. Agree Bill Jenkins has said he didnt like those ZL-1 Blocks because of bad core shift and the cylinder seal had bad blow by causing bad ring seal resulting in power loss. That is cool you are contacting the current owners if they are interested in that Reynolds block. Great story. Good luck and like hearing these stories.

[rcalzaretta62]

To add to the story......So I contacted the folks that supposedly have Grumpy's Toy IV in Pennsylvania (Dale & Vicki) and sent them the pictures of the motor with the documentation that is was indeed the motor that was published by the Peterson Archive. I offered them the motor for what I purchased it for as I thought it should go to them. They let me know today that they wanted to pass on buying it. The potential value of a Jenkins car with the motor that won the 1970 Winternationals beating the Ronnie Sox car would put it in the stratosphere......I was shocked at their response!! Well, it is going in my Camaro where I intended it to go when I bought it. It is a Yenko built SCCA car, later turned into a drag car. This will be a good fit rather than the 1969 ZL-1 block that I was going to use. I will post a few pictures when I get it out of the crate.

[big gear head]

That's really too bad. It would have been great to see it back in that car.

[PeteLeathersac]

'

No need to feel bad as their car's a well known clone also actually a '67.:ooo:
The truth's been discussed in a few threads here over the years, this one w/ the most info...
https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=139335
:beers:
~ Pete

.

[JoeC]

did you try to contact the owner of the 1970 Grumpy Camaro? maybe they will be interested

Bill used the 68 , the 69, and the 1970 Camaro in 1970 Pro Stock and match racing using many different engines Cam Am , ZL1, iron car blocks and truck blocks


Sometimes running multiple cars in one race

[rcalzaretta62]

Well, that explains it. Thank you for the clarification and link Pete. I did see a few posts on other sites that said it was not Toy IV, but they kept responding and arguing that it was....I fell for it!! I am sorry I sent them a copy of the documentation/details I had on the block. I have not contacted the owners of the 69 or 70 cars. I think I would rather put in my car as intended at this point since I was unable to reunite with Toy IV.

[Sean]

I used to talk to Bill on a regular basis before he passed. I know he did not like the aluminum blocks at all. Even the cylinder heads. Those blocks have a lot of porosity in them just not compact enough. On the dyno your looking at a 10-12% loss

[bracketracer-78]

To add to the story......So I contacted the folks that supposedly have Grumpy's Toy IV in Pennsylvania (Dale & Vicki) and sent them the pictures of the motor with the documentation that is was indeed the motor that was published by the Peterson Archive. I offered them the motor for what I purchased it for as I thought it should go to them. They let me know today that they wanted to pass on buying it. The potential value of a Jenkins car with the motor that won the 1970 Winternationals beating the Ronnie Sox car would put it in the stratosphere......I was shocked at their response!! Well, it is going in my Camaro where I intended it to go when I bought it. It is a Yenko built SCCA car, later turned into a drag car. This will be a good fit rather than the 1969 ZL-1 block that I was going to use. I will post a few pictures when I get it out of the crate.

The car out in Pittsburgh is a fake. The whole story about Toy 4 was a ex SCCA car was fabricated. Its very easy to disprove the whole story by looking at original pictures of Toy 4 and compare them to the fake one from Pittsburgh. The easy way to i.d. the car is when Jenkins had the car and when Brooklyn Heavy had the car there was no full cage like the Pittsburgh car has that was claimed to be installed before Jenkins got it.

[RALLY]

I used to talk to Bill on a regular basis before he passed. I know he did not like the aluminum blocks at all. Even the cylinder heads. Those blocks have a lot of porosity in them just not compact enough. On the dyno your looking at a 10-12% loss

Agree, Bill said the Aluminum heads didnt put out the horsepower like the iron head then. Thinking heat transfer had something to do with it. Yes the aluminum heads were lighter, but loss of horsepower was down.

[Grumpy's Toy VIII]

I recently purchased the remains of Grumpy's Toy VIII. I'd like the opportunity to discuss purchasing this block from you.

[EZ Nova]

Is this the TOY that was for sale with just the bars and dash pretty much? IF SO, glad to see you taking this on and bringing it back to life.

Congrads and good luck, John

[Grumpy's Toy VIII]

That's the one. Thank you for the kind words, it might be a bumpy road ahead but there is a plan in place to do some really nice tribute stuff with this ol girl.

[JoeC]

this chassis was for sale online and was said to be the remains of Grumpy's 70 Camaro

[Grumpy's Toy VIII]

That would be her Joe. On the bright side at least I'm seeing her at her worst.

[EZ Nova]

Grumpy, one ALWAYS sees the wife undressed before we marry them! This is the same, nothing hidden. Good luck

[big gear head]

I wonder why someone would cut the body off like that.

[Grumpy's Toy VIII]

The same question that's been asked hundreds of times before. Perhaps in the future I'll be able to answer that.

[big gear head]

I found this in the Sep '72 Hot Rod.

[William]

Were there two?

Grumpy's 1970 Camaro PRO car was restored many years ago and consigned to Mecum Kissimmee 2011.

[JoeC]

Only one 70 Camaro race car as far as I know

There was a 70 Camaro Grumpy's Toy VII that was more like a street/show car not a race car.

It had a ZL1 engine and 4 speed , straight bumper car. It had a prototype steel L88 hood that Chevy gave to Bill Jenkins for the car.

The 1970 COPO ZL1 Camaro that never made production

I have the hood to it so I am always looking for pictures of Grumpy's Toy VII

[EZ Nova]

Removed at request of the admin

[William]

And therein lies the fundamental problem with old race cars.

Too many owners, too many modifications, tags gone, sketchy histories, no documentation. Several obvious recreations being paraded around as the 'real car'.

Those who have been on the sites for a long time may remember the Dick Harrell '68 Camaro FC mess.

[Mr70]

Yup..

[DW31S]

And therein lies the fundamental problem with old race cars.

Too many owners, too many modifications, tags gone, sketchy histories, no documentation. Several obvious recreations being paraded around as the 'real car'.

Those who have been on the sites for a long time may remember the Dick Harrell '68 Camaro FC mess.

I'd say "SOME" old race cars. There are existing originals that are fully documented and have never been torn apart, destroyed, or left to biodegrade into the earth; some are still in competition. I will agree that quite a few bogus cars are, or have been, portrayed as the real thing and those imposters may cloud the judgment concerning period race cars in general. It's sad, indeed, but the entire hobby is rife with illegitimate examples of race cars, muscle cars, classic cars, etc.
And yes, the 1968 DH FC is a prime example....and the 1970 GT probably will be in due time.

[William]

Agreed.

A great example of a famous race car that maintained its identity is ZL1 #1. Still has its VIN and body tags, known history.

[Grumpy's Toy VIII]

It's not difficult to determine a car's provenance. The story either lines up and is easily verified by facts or it doesn't, it's that simple. If its questionable don't over pay, and therein lies the problem. Buyer's sometimes lack knowledge. Much like the stock market do research and invest what you can afford to lose.

[Grumpy's Toy VIII]

Probably better to get this thread back on track, after all its titled ZL-1 vs Can Am.

So I'll help to refocus this thread with this offering. Jenkins most successful big block, and what is arguably the Holy Grail of Rat motors. Bill Jenkins Can Am 430 won multiple Super Stock titles and match races before winning the first ever Pro/Stock race. This famous engine won literally hundreds of matches in Grumpy's Toys IV, VI and VIII before being converted to a 495 inch match race monster.

Reynolds Aluminum cast only 70 of these very special big bore (4 7/16") 395 alloy Can Am blocks. Sixty went to the 3 Can Am teams and 10 went to drag racers, Jenkins initially received 3 of the blocks but in the end may have ended up with as many as 5.

This also happens to be the engine Robert Calzaretta so graciously sold to me and one of the pieces I am excited to have Steve Shauger discuss with me when we talk about GT VIII.

[Grumpy's Toy VIII]

Figured I might as well follow up with the actual difference between the 427 Zl-1 and the GM/Reynolds 430 Can Am in Bill Jenkins words from a 1970 article.

Source: Super Stock & Drag Illustrated July 1970

Jenkins was asked "can the standard 427 be competitive against the 430 or Can Am short stroke engine in Pro/Stock."

Jenkins replied: The Hp difference is negligible. It's the range with the 430 that makes the difference. He continued, the difference is 10 - 15 at peak and the peak for the 427 is 7,200 and +7,500 for the 430. At 7,200 there is no difference and at 7,600 - 7,700 the 430 makes 10 - 15 more hp than the 427 at 7,200. The 427 is definitely downhill at 7,700 - 7,800 being approximately -40 Hp say from 660 - 620.

The 430 climbs from 7,200 with about the same power to say 10 hp more at 7,500 and then maybe 15 hp more at 7,700; at 8,000 it is back to about the 7,500 power output.

SS & DI then asked how many of these engines are there ? Jenkins replied, 70 blocks were cast and distributed among 10 different Can Am teams and 6-10 of the blocks were given to potential or actual drag race users.

Note: very few Can Am blocks were cast with fuel pump bosses but the majority of all the early Can Am blocks were sleeved.

Note: Jenkins eluded to Reynolds experimenting with linerless blocks to increase bore size to 4.500.

I'd like to add that these engines weigh in the mid 400 lbs. range and when the mcLaren M8D/3 was subsequently tested by ex-F1 driver and double Le Mans winner JJ Lehto, the Finn declared M8D/3 to be “the fastest thing I have ever driven…”

[Carleen]

What you have there is an Experimental / Prototype Block.
They start with 0- and I have heard that only 20 Block were made of 0-326711 and they were cast -68. In 1969 3946052 - 3946053 Can Am Block were produced

[Grumpy's Toy VIII]

Carleen, agreed Reynolds prototype for GM. I have worked with and documented 21 variations of the GM aluminum blocks.

The 0-326711 you mentioned is definitely Can Am only. I have seen none with provisions for a mechanical fuel pump and agreed that mold was 68 only. It is also 4.440 bore and does have sleeves.

Who did you hear the production run number from ? That is interesting, I have never heard a definitive count other than from Bill Jenkins and Smokey Yunick who both state 70 short blocks cast between 67-69. This is Reynolds casting, not Winters. Different block, yes, even those that share the identical mold numbers:
3946052 and 3946053.

The Reynolds and Winters were cast from different alloys.

However, GM did turnover casting 052, 053 and 040 to Winters for '70 and '71 with big bore molds for Can Am teams.

If your into the Can Am stuff we should compare notes. A small group of us here in the USA that work on these are comparing notes to combine all this data and get it to those who restore these engines.

[Carleen]

I have one of the 0-326711 Blocks.
I heard that Chevrolet ordered 20 Blocks (minimum order) of all 0-blocks.
Its the third Prototype / Eperimental casting of CanAm Big Block
They were supposed to be scrapped after trying them out but came out the back door to Racers. WDC Casting.
BTW Mine have provision for fuelpump.

[Carleen]

I have seen some 3946052 Can Am Block on ebay with Casting date early 69. Also bought one of these but got into trouble with the seller

[Carleen]

Heres what I have found out.
And I thought WDC means Winter die casting

Can-Am blocks 68/69 - Winters
# 0-294550 = 4.250" bore with steel liners Experimental Prototype 67-68 Dry sump (427 ci)
# 0-321270 = 4.440" bore with steel liners Experimental Prototype 68 no boss for mechanical fuel pump(430, 465 ci)
# 0-326711 = 4.440" bore with steel liners Experimental Prototype 68 (430, 465 ci)
# 3946052 = 4.440" bore with steel liners (430, 465 ci)
# 3946053 = 4.440" bore with steel liners (430, 465 ci)

Can-Am Block 70 Winters
# 3946052 = 4.440" bore with steel liners (494 ci)
# 3946053 = 4.440" bore with steel liners (494 ci)

Can-Am blocks 71-72 - Reynolds
# O-399204 = 4.5" bore and steel liners (509 ci)
# O-495102 = 4.5" bore and no liners

ZL-1 Factory blocks - 1969 - Winters
# 3946052 427 ci.
# 3946053 427 ci

ZL-1 Factory blocks - 1997 & up
# 3946053 427 ci.

# 3992038 may be 4.44" bore w/ Liners - era?.

# 3946052 Yenko Casting LC 427
# 3946053 Yenko - Casting has YENKO
# 3946053 Yenko - Casting has Y E N K O
# 394605Y Yenko - Casting has Yenko Crest Logo

[STEFS]

I still have some parts from the Can Am engine from Jenkins. If you need something give me a call. Thanks Joe 908-216-5614

[RALLY]

Only one 70 Camaro race car as far as I know

There was a 70 Camaro Grumpy's Toy VII that was more like a street/show car not a race car.

It had a ZL1 engine and 4 speed , straight bumper car. It had a prototype steel L88 hood that Chevy gave to Bill Jenkins for the car.

The 1970 COPO ZL1 Camaro that never made production

I have the hood to it so I am always looking for pictures of Grumpy's Toy VII

Beautiful looking drag car.

[Kered-TCracingCA]

Heres what I have found out.
And I thought WDC means Winter die casting

Can-Am blocks 68/69 - Winters
# 0-294550 = 4.250" bore with steel liners Experimental Prototype 67-68 Dry sump (427 ci)
# 0-321270 = 4.440" bore with steel liners Experimental Prototype 68 no boss for mechanical fuel pump(430, 465 ci)
# 0-326711 = 4.440" bore with steel liners Experimental Prototype 68 (430, 465 ci)
# 3946052 = 4.440" bore with steel liners (430, 465 ci)
# 3946053 = 4.440" bore with steel liners (430, 465 ci)

Can-Am Block 70 Winters
# 3946052 = 4.440" bore with steel liners (494 ci)
# 3946053 = 4.440" bore with steel liners (494 ci)

Can-Am blocks 71-72 - Reynolds
# O-399204 = 4.5" bore and steel liners (509 ci)
# O-495102 = 4.5" bore and no liners

ZL-1 Factory blocks - 1969 - Winters
# 3946052 427 ci.
# 3946053 427 ci

ZL-1 Factory blocks - 1997 & up
# 3946053 427 ci.

# 3992038 may be 4.44" bore w/ Liners - era?.

# 3946052 Yenko Casting LC 427
# 3946053 Yenko - Casting has YENKO
# 3946053 Yenko - Casting has Y E N K O
# 394605Y Yenko - Casting has Yenko Crest Logo

I know this is a slightly aged thread, but for my first post here in this forum, I can help this history. Covering the Yenko blocks, the first batch commissioned by Yenko was thru the Winters people, so they had the snowflake. Then Yenko bought the molds and Winters asked him to knock off the snowflake for his personal production.

For the 1967 year, Chevrolet was building limitedly 427 Aluminum engines, going out to Chaparral/Hall. So 0-294550 were this batch. They lost about 11 of them in race testing! First ran at the 1967 Daytona 24 where one 2F was fitted, and one 2D modified was fitted, due to the other Team 2F, not being ready. They won Brands Hatch with this engine in 1967. Also these could be configured either internal dry sump or wet sump. I have put up some pictures up of this in the last thread on Corvette Forum (TCracingCA) showing this, in the recent thread talking of a White ZL-1 clone selling on Ebay.

For 1968 to the dissatisfaction of Jim Hall, Chevrolet opened it up to offering supply to all Teams with the next version 0-321270 (I believe 20 produced). They were working on revisions, and due to supply demand, they released 0-326711 upping production and supplied to more outfits, 60 units out to Can Am and like Drag Racer Grumpy Jenkins got 3 initially, might have acquired 2 more, along with other outfits like Motion. As these could be built with the famed short stroke and big bore, in 430 or 465. These were the first of the Chevrolet units, that get confused as being Reynolds 390 units.

For 1969-onward, these Chevrolet units made using 356 aluminum (preceeding the Reynolds 390 Alloy program), Chevrolet finally gave them a Part # and made some available to select Dealerships over the counter. As these were designed to go 430, 465, they are as said with the proceeding 0-dash units, confused often with the Reynolds 390 units that would come later. And this engine was thought to be the 454 version of the ZL-1 mistakenly. I have to study the 0-326711, the ZL-1, and this #3992038 block side by side, but I think this latest has some of the characterics of both the Chevrolet 356 Alloy series and the ZL-1. The ZL-1 needed some clearancing for 4.0 stroke and this latest engine had that done.
Part #3992038.

They had problems with the larger displacement sizes 441 (.060 overbore) & 509/510 (.060 overbore) especially, due to the cylinder bores being so close to the head bolts, so they would get fracturing. I can elaborate more on this later, like core shifting. Therefore to solve a number of issues, they went with Reynolds and their improved Alloy and better production casting techniques.

Reynolds 390 only offered a Block which became Chevrolet Part #3965755 for 430, 465, 495

Next Chevrolet was working with Reynolds for bigger bores and plating techniques, different piston plating, etc. they had larger bore development happening under
0-399204 & later 0-495102, but the Can Am series died.

A few ZL-1 units were found to be able to be built in large displacement, in an attempt to keep competitive to the Porsche 917/30 & 917-10, until the last year of the old Can Am in 1974, when a gas consumption formula negated the sheer horsepower advantage of the Porsche Turbos in 1972 & 1973, and thus Shadow won that final year.

[Rex]

I have two of the 0-321270 blocks. One has sleeves and the other does not and doesn't appear to have ever had sleeves. The one without sleves has these characters hand stamped on the left rear corner of the block: RMC MOL and under that the number 10.

I was told on another forum the RMC stood for "Reynolds Massena Casting" (Massena, New York).

I also have an NOS 430 crank and pistons. Crank came from Grumpy Jenkins’ shop.

I’m trying to post pics but I’m having problems. ��

[Kered-TCracingCA]

I have two of the 0-321270 blocks. One has sleeves and the other does not and doesn't appear to have ever had sleeves. The one without sleves has these characters hand stamped on the left rear corner of the block: RMC MOL and under that the number 10.

I was told on another forum the RMC stood for "Reynolds Massena Casting" (Massena, New York).

I also have an NOS 430 crank and pistons. Crank came from Grumpy Jenkins’ shop.

Hi Rex, glad to see you over here. On the project that we talked about an 0-dash history mostly, that I started sharing over on CF, this throws a curve ball, but a helpful curve ball. On the Chevrolet 1967-1970 Chevrolet 356 blocks, I have assumed one or more of those 0-Dash units might be the prototype for the Reynolds 390, so no panic. I have seen and read RMC (but even though I try to be on top of it all, sometimes my brain misses occasionally), I think even in this thread I read quickly to see if that was discussed. Those are still done up separate from the Reynolds 390 series, but the 0-321270 might just be that development/prototype run that led to the tooling up for Reynolds 390. Interesting. Thus let me dig some more on that history. I wanted to throw in to help, where I know smart guys on here, all of this hang out. As my personal email indicate, I know you know some stuff. :beers:

Therefore this line from my post is inaccurate, so removed this--->>>> Reynolds had nothing to do with these 1967-essentially thru 1970 offered engines or blocks using 356 alloy! Thus interest is to improve the History. I added 390 to two of the other mentions of Reynolds too. With your valued knowledge, I just gladly improved the accuracy overall of my post above. I still want to check into the RMC, go back and look at the castings for such, just to double check. Chevrolet was known to farm out Casting, so we had Winters, Alcoa, Reynolds, Tonawanda, and a few others. I wasn't pursuing who did what for Chevy, but that would be good to know information.

[Kered-TCracingCA]

Crankshafts for 430 were:
P#3993803 Machined 3.47 stroke
P#3965746 Semi-Finished 3.4 to 3.8.

Another Semi-Finished one was available, but will have to search down that unit part number meant for 3.9 to 4.25 stroke.

Then we had:
P#3967811 3.76 (L88 unit) for 465 cubes
P#3963524 4.00 (LS7 unit-454) for 495 cubes

[Kered-TCracingCA]

I just threw up a post on Can BBC over in Technical and Restoration that might be of interest to people following these Can Am/ZL-1 threads. I am still trying to figure out the ins and out of this forum.

[Keith Seymore]

Your post from the other thread:

https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=139808&page=3

I just joined and participating in some of these Aluminum Development threads. Yes I know exactly where this block was used. Too bad something famous like this can't be reunited to it's home car.

So ZL-1 Engine #1 was being pushed from the CEC White Room to the Hot Test Room, which was just 175 feet away. The guy pushing it, stopped to use a vending machine and when he walked back around the corner into that hallway, that engine was gone/stolen. Because of GM clout, even the FBI came in. So Engine #2 was heavily escorted, as #1 has never turned up.

So Engine #3 was the first engine that made it into Zora Duntov's care. They had disbanded his Engine Development team, just prior to ZL-1, so was waiting on his first ZL-1 from the Chevrolet Engine team where Frincke was transferred. Thus this got fitted to what would become known as the ZL-1 Super Vette, made famous in an article named 10 Second Ride or whatever it was named. Not getting that title off the top of the brain. So they were using this engine to push the limits on the capability of the platform, this particular engine #3 getting modifications. Then this very unit was built up into the 454 #2 config, and installed in the famed LT-2 car, that was used for the Press showing, to demonstrate 1/4 mile capability.

I have tried to accumulate names of guys in these different departments, but I have that data loose in notes all over the place. So don't know who A.C is, without looking into it.

This is a treat to see these stampings on this very block!

I love stuff like this, like another famed block popped up that I saw belonging to the famed 1966 Penske L88 race car. What is in the car now belongs in the Penske L88 Grand Sport, as some of these guys that do restoration find something rare and it doesn't make it back to the right car!

[Kered-TCracingCA]

Your post from the other thread:

https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=139808&page=3

Thanks for helping to share my posts!!!!!3gears.gif:beers:

I have to figure out finding URL to upload pictures I guess. Ugh!

That article is:
Oct 1969 Sports Car Graphics "The 10 Second Trip Story"