Joel Rosen paperwork and NICB report look!!!!

[67nickeycamaro]

Recently Rockys Rocket was sold and i held the documentation
on the car and the guy does not want to purchase the original
joel letter and the NICB report,he has a Xerox copy of the Rosen letter but not the original.I am posting this just in case the car comes back up for sale the new buyer is aware
of where the paper work is.

[SuperNovaSS]

So you held the paperwork as a sort of blackmail? What kind of money were/are you asking for it? This reads as a classified ad.


Jason

[x Baldwin Motion]

Glad I'm not the only one that thinks something is odd about holding paper work on a car you don't own.

[owners2]

If your not the owner why would you have the original paperwork. And why wouldn't it just be given to the new owner with the purchase of the car?????

[PeteLeathersac]

If someone's hoping to recoup their time and $ spent for sucessfully securing an NICB report and/or absolutely postive Joel docs and these were the key factors in confirming the pedigree of the vehicle, it may be just but very tough to do...especially if they've let copies get away!.

What's the missing posting of this user...3 posts but only 2 show?.

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif
~ Pete

[x Baldwin Motion]

for Pete's Sac, your PM box is full !!

[PeteLeathersac]

Sorry Riddler!.
The recent board changes somehow filled my sac w/ old and previously deleted messages beyond the maximum allowed and I haven't taken the time to sort through what's what yet..
I'll head over there now...try again later or email me if no-go..

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif
~ Pete

[67nickeycamaro]

OK for the Nitwits that care,I did all the research on the car
obtained the NICB report which is extremely tough to accomplish and paid the Joel Rosen Fee of $2000.The new owner received a copy of the Joel letter and was offered the original and the NICB
report for approximately double the Rosen fee.And as far as im
concerned the NICB on a Baldwin Motion car not a Motion car is more valuable than Joels letter.The new owner told me he wanted the paperwork ive contacted him several times and im done wasting my time.NO ABSOLUTELY NOT did i hold the paperwork hostage,what about the $2000 grand i gave Joel and the 7months of leg work?HUH I OWN THE PAPER WORK THE CAR IS DOCUMENTED IN MY NAME IF ANYBODY WANTS IT THE PRICE JUST WENT UP BECAUSE OF YOU KNOW IT ALLS.I WOULD TO LOVE TO SEE THE PAPERWORK WITH THE CAR BUT IM NOT GIVING ANYONE MY TIME OR MONEY AND OWE NOBODY HERE OR ELSEWHERE ANYTHING.YOU GUYS ARE 100% THE REASON WHY MY DOCUMENTED NICB REPORTED CARS WILL NEVER BE LISTED HERE,JOEL
WANTED TO HIRE MY SERVICES WHICH I DECLINED,BUT FOR YOU KNOW IT ALLS HAVE A GOOD DAY IVE CHANGED MY MIND PAPERWORK IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DONT WASTE YOUR TIME ON REPLIES I WILL NO LONGER BE LOGGING ON.

[PeteLeathersac]

Please note my posting said if this was the situation I thought you were just in what you were doing but it would be tough to do..
<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif

You're not the only one who loses their patience here every now and then...so please reconsider leaving as it looks like you're someone who belongs here!.

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif
~ Pete

[PxTx]

I'm not sure I follow this, and it's a shame when a guy gets all bent like this when he has only posted a few times.

67nickeycamaro, found a car, got the NICB and Rosen letter in his name, the car appreciated form this effort and was sold without the original paperwork? Did 67nickeycamaro sell it the car, or did he doccument it out of his pocket for someone else? I'm getting the impression he didn't sell it and did not gain form the appreciation of the car. It's kinda unclear and I'm sorry if you can't understand why people would like ot understand the situation more clearly.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 67nickeycamaro</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... I OWN THE PAPER WORK THE CAR IS DOCUMENTED IN MY NAME IF ANYBODY WANTS IT THE PRICE JUST WENT UP BECAUSE OF YOU KNOW IT ALLS.

... IVE CHANGED MY MIND PAPERWORK IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! </div></div>

Common man, lighten up. It's never a good idea to reply when you're mad, but you probably know than and just got caught up in the moment. A more positive discussion might help you recover form your investment. Right now, you're out cash for a car you don't own.

How about you consider talking about this more. You bring up a good point about the NICB report, and if the present owner see's that a popular opinion agrees with your point about the NICB, you might stand a better chance of making it back up.

Sometimes you'll have to rely on your thick skin around here but I would welcome you to return to this discussion. We're really not all as bad as you've grouped us in as being.

[x Baldwin Motion]

Seriously, it is not clear if you owned the car and sold it without the paper work or offered it at an additional cost or you acquired documentation for a car that was not yours. This is not a witch hunt, just trying to understand the circumstances of having valuable paper separate from car.
<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif

[Tarrytown SS427s]

67NickeyCamaro is also user &quot;dave tadder&quot; who posted on here a while back. Obviously still a fan of the caps lock key:

Post on 8/27/07:
HELLO EVERYBODY HERES THE NEWS I GUESS YOU WERE ALL DISCUSSING AND NOT BELIEVING ON HERE SOMETIME AGO ABOUT ROCKYS ROCKET.WELL ROCKY HAS OWNED THE GEM SINCE 1980 AND STILL OWNS IT TODAY THOUGH I HAVE SOME INTEREST IN THE CAR AND THATS BETWEEN HIM AND I.SO HMMMMMMMMMM WERE DO I START WELL WE HAVE THE JOEL ROSEN LETTER I GUESS THAT SAYS ENOUGH BUT I WILL CONTINUE JOEL ALSO AUTOGRAPHED THE DRIVER VISOR AND NOS REAR QUARTER GLASS STICKERS BUT TOLD US NOT TO REMOVE THE ORIGINAL ONES EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE PEELING FROM THE GLASS AND TO RUN THE REAR BUMPER THATS ON THE CAR BECAUSE THE REAR BALDWIN STICKER HAS NEVER BEEN REPRODUCED AND HE HAS NONE TO OFFER.LET ME CONTINUE WE ALSO HAVE THE NICB REPORT AND FOR THOSE WHO DONT KNOW WHAT THAT IS LET ME TAKE THE TIME TO TELL YOU WELL ITS A NATIONAL DATA BANK THAT VERY FEW PEOPLE CAN ENTER AND DONT ASK ME HOW TO ENTER OR HOW WE HAD IT ENTERED BECAUSE EVEN JOEL WAS WONDERING BUT THE NICB KEEPS TRACK OF EVERY CAR DELIVERED NEW TO A DEALERSHIP AND WHAT DOES THE REPORT SAY WELL YOU GUESSED IT ROCKYS CAR WAS DELIVERED TO BALDWIN AUTO ON FEB 28TH 1968.
SO LETS SEE THE CAR HAS THE JOEL LETTER,ITS AUTOGRAPHED BY JOEL,IT HAS THE NICB REPORT OH LET ME CONTINUE I RESEARCHED THE OWNERSHIP OF THE CAR AND FOUND 6 PREVIOUS OWNERS DATING BACK TO LATE 69 EARLY 70 SO I HAD LETTERS TYPED UP AND SENT THEM TO ALL THE PREVIOUS OWNERS 3 WHO LIVED IN WILLIAMSPORT P.A ONE WHO LIVED IN CANTON P.A AND ONE WHO LIVED IN ELMIRA HEIGHTS N.Y AND ONE IN HORSEHEADS N.Y AND THERE ALL SIGNED AND NOTARIZED SAYING THE CAR WAS A BALDWIN MOTION AND THE GUY FROM CANTON P.A WHO OWNED THE CAR IN 73 HAD PHOTOS OF THE CAR SO I GUESS THE CAR HAS THE JOEL LETTER IS AUTOGRAPHED BY JOEL HAS THE NICB REPORT AND HAS DOCUMENTED OWNER HISTORY.SO MY QUESTIONS TO YOU GUYS IS THIS,THE CAR IS A DOCUMENTED 1968 BALDWIN MOTION SS427 CAMARO I KNOW THERE ARE A FEW PHASE THREE 68S OUT THERE BUT DO YOU GUYS KNOW OF ANOTHER SS427 CAR????? CAR HAS ALL ORIGINAL SHEETMETAL AND HAS BEEN FRAME OFF AND CURRENTLY BEING PAINTED AND FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO PREVIOUSLY STATED THE STRIPE WAS TO WIDE ON THE CAR WELL JOEL ROSEN THOUGHT MAYBE JUST MAYBE IT WAS TO BUT WASNT FOR SURE ALL I CAN TELL YOU IS IF HES NOT FOR SURE THE ONLY THING WE CAN USE AS GROUNDS OF HOW WIDE THE STRIPE IS GONNA BE WHEN IT COMES BACK FROM BEING PAINTED IS THE PHOTOS WE HAVE FROM 1973.HOPE IVE LAID TO REST ANY IFS ON THE CAR AND IM REALLY NOT RUDE JUST TRYING TO GET THE POINT ACROSS.I HAVE TWO QUESTIONS FOR YOU GUYS ONE IS, IS THERE ANY OTHER DOCUMENTED SS427 CARS AND NOT PHASE THREES LIKE MARKS AND KEVINS CARS AND LAST AND NOT LEAST THIS CAR WILL BE FOR SALE IN THE NEXT 12 MONTHS OR SO, SO FELLAS WITH THE BIG CHECKBOOKS GET READY.
IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR ANSWERS FOR ME I WOULD GREATLY APPRECIATE THEM I HAVE CORRESPONDED FOR 7MONTHS WITH JOEL EITHER BY THE COMPUTER OR BY PHONE AND EVEN TALKED TO HIM IN PERSON LAST YEAR IN CARLISLE AT THE CAMARO NATIONALS PLEASE EMAIL ME DIRECTLY AT [email protected]
I DONT ENTER THIS SITE OFTEN AND NEITHER DOES ROCKY BUT ALL QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS CAN COME TO ME THANX FOR READING THIS EXTREMELY LONG LETTER BUT THE CAR DESERVES IT AND SO DONT YOU SUPER CAR AND MOTION FANS.KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK YOU GUYS ARE THE BEST!!!!!!!! DAVE TADDER

Not really sure what the purpose of this thread one NICB papers is, other than to try and stir things up.

[wheelhop]

That was a TAD(DER) bit long of a post

[PxTx]

Kinda makes you feel out of breath too!

[ssl78396]

Don't Do It.. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/no.gif
There Trying To Lure You In To Be There Punching Bag. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/eek.gif
Just One Shot..Just One Shot Buddy.. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/bs.gif

[John Brown]

This is one of the reasons the classified ads were made read only. I call <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/bs.gif

[old5.0]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ssl78396</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't Do It.. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/no.gif
There Trying To Lure You In To Be There Punching Bag. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/eek.gif
Just One Shot..Just One Shot Buddy.. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/bs.gif
</div></div>

Huh? http://smiliesftw.com/x/k.gif (http://smiliesftw.com)

[motionwannabe]

WOW!!!!! Some people. Theres nothing better than having paperwork for a car you dont own. Even though everybody has heard of or seen this 67 camaro&quot;rockys rocket&quot; and for the most part its agreed to be a real MOTION car,The money was paid to verify the car, So, why wouldnt it go with the car??????
Just ad it in to the sale price.
Then he gets mad when asked about it???
Some people!!

[67nickeycamaro]

I will keep it short for those who have a short attention spand.Rocky owned the car,told me he tryed years and years ago to document the car sent joel money the whole nine yards that everybody else has already heard with no luck.Got it so far?
I told him as his long time friend that if the car could be documented i could do it,I did it Notarized letters from previous owners back to 69,NICB report and Joels letter.Rocky owned the car i owned the paper work period.Got it so far?New owner received a copy of Joels letter and the original notarized letters and i offered him the original letter and NICB report which he told me he wanted to purchase which was ohhh 6months ago and after 2-3 phone calls ive given up on him.I posted the info incase he was interested in &quot;flipping&quot; the car for a profit that any potential buyer was aware what he held for paperwork and where the originals were.I was trying to preserve the pedigree of the car in hopes of the two being together like they should be.I dont need the money nor am i giving my money away.Hope all understands if not too bad.

[PeteLeathersac]

Thanks for coming back an explaining the details of your situation..
Are there any pics you can share of the car...a shot of the cowl tag would be interesting!

Also is there something you can tell us about what your 67 Nickey user name represents?.

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif
~ Pete


http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/dog427435/Super%20Chevy/a019.jpg

[x Baldwin Motion]

That was very kind of you to go to all that trouble for your long time friend. It is sad that he do not reimburse you for the documents and ad them to the sale price. Hopefully the new owner will desire them and pay you for your time. Good Luck and thanks for the explanation.
<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

[Yenko Bart]

BULL!!! There was no mention of the bait and switch on paper work before the deal. Just a reminder always beware of the wolf in sheeps clothing.

[67nickeycamaro]

The hell there wasnt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Bob who bought the car was aware of it when I was selling the car and was informed by me when I was selling the car that if he went around me and purchased the car from Rocky (after he told rocky he didnt like me and didnt want to deal with me)he wasnt getting it because the A@%$^&amp;$%$ offered Rocky a price and then dropped 15K when Rocky accepted it and i offered BOB the paper work for 5K which was still 10K less than he offered.The guy that bought the car knows who i am he can step to me when ever he sees me at a show.But beware the wolf might just be in sheeps clothing?HAHA

[Mr70]

I'm sincere when I ask this,but what's to stop him from just sending Joel 2K today for his own personal documentation?

[Charley Lillard]

For the 5k you also get the NCIB report.

[x Baldwin Motion]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the 5k you also get the NCIB report. </div></div>

How much for the entire true story of the paper work? Were you hired to broker the car? I don't really want answers at this point the story has too much anger and negativism for me. If it were my car I would just print this thread for free.

Sorry it's not a happy ending.

[ssl78396]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: x Baldwin Motion</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the 5k you also get the NCIB report. </div></div>

How much for the entire true story of the paper work? Were you hired to broker the car? I don't really want answers at this point the story has too much anger and negativism for me. If it were my car I would just print this thread for free.

Sorry it's not a happy ending. </div></div>
This is really exciting with words like &quot;negativism&quot; <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/crazy.gif
I feel it necessary to call on &quot;Dr.Tawillaker&quot; <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/scholar.gif

[67nickeycamaro]

Yes Rock had me sell the car an &quot;BOB&quot; was informed at syracuse nationals where he looked at the car and on the phone when&quot;BILL&quot; made us an offer and stated to me be very carefull of &quot;BILL&quot; and his group they are a bunch of A%$% they offer you money then a week or som later low ball you which is what happened here,During that phone conversation about BILL and the syracuse nationals BOB was informed if anyone went around me to buy the car they were only getting a copy of joels letter and they werent getting the NICB report.Maybe he can send the copy of Joels Letter and 2,000 and get a letter maybe he cant either
i know Joel.Still I have the NICB which we all know proves rockys
rocket was delivered to baldwin much more significant than Joels Letter.Now if BOB is YENKOBRAT and wants me to call him and discuss what i told him on two different events and a price just post you want me to call you and i will one time thats it im
not wasting my time.Ball is in your court YENKOBRAT you either want me to call you or you dont and i will come down in price to make all happy here but i wont be losing money either.Next time someone is speaking to you you might wanna pay attention to what came out of there mouth months before you went around me because either you didnt here or you forgot,but either way it was said to you.

[resto4u]

If you were selling the car for rocky, why did rocky sell the car without your assistance?

[ssl78396]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: resto4u</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you were selling the car for rocky, why did rocky sell the car without your assistance?</div></div>
Rowen&amp;Martin's Laugh In
&quot;Very Interesting&quot; <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/cry.gif

[x Baldwin Motion]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ssl78396</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: resto4u</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you were selling the car for rocky, why did rocky sell the car without your assistance?</div></div>
Rowen&amp;Martin's Laugh In
&quot;Very Interesting&quot; <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/cry.gif </div></div>
...........but strange.... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif

Dr. Terwilliker, I presume?
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/fugitive247/snagged/artie-johnson.jpg

[ANDREW MACTAVISH]

The Adventures of Rocky &amp; HoodWinkle!

[ssl78396]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: x Baldwin Motion</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ssl78396</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: resto4u</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you were selling the car for rocky, why did rocky sell the car without your assistance?</div></div>
Rowen&amp;Martin's Laugh In
&quot;Very Interesting&quot; <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/cry.gif </div></div>
...........but strange.... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif

Dr. Terwilliker, I presume?
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/fugitive247/snagged/artie-johnson.jpg
</div></div>
Niiiiiice... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/haha.gif

[Belair62]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 67nickeycamaro</div><div class="ubbcode-body">he went around me and purchased the car from Rocky (after he told rocky he didnt like me and didnt want to deal with me)</div></div>

I'm thinking he had a pretty good reason by the sound of your posts.

[67 Nova Boy]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the 5k you also get the NCIB report. </div></div>

Ok...I'm A Nova dude and have no Ideal what an NCIB report is!!

Enlighten me Charlie please!! LOL

Dave
67 Nova Boy

[x Baldwin Motion]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 67 Nova Boy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the 5k you also get the NCIB report. </div></div>

Ok...I'm A Nova dude and have no Ideal what an NCIB report is!! </div></div>


It's complicated......



http://static.tvfanatic.com/images/gallery/gibbs-and-right-hand-men.jpg

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/wink.gif

[njsteve]

NICB is the National Insurance Crime Bureau. They have microfiche shipping records from most but not all of the assembly plants going back to the early 1900's. There is no &quot;report&quot; per se, really it is a one page document that shows that a particular VIN was shipped to a particular dealer code on a specific date.

The main use for these records is for vehicle fraud - if someone makes up a new VIN tag and the police suspect something, they can contact NICB and they will search that VIN to see if it ever existed. For example if you &quot;find&quot; a previously unlocated 71 hemicuda convertible and sell it for a couple million dollars and then there is a lawsuit over whether it's real or not - the VIN can be searched and if the engine code is different in the NICB records, that will prove the car had a fake VIN recently made for it. For example: BS27R1B100000 (hemi) versus BS27N1B100000 (383).

The real use if for much more modern cars in chop shop/auto theft investigations. There is a numerical &quot;check digit&quot; in post 1980's car VINs that is created by some crazy algorithym that chop shoppers don't have, so if they try to make a new VIN tag for a $250,000 Mercedes they are shipping overseas, the officials will check the VIN against NICB records and if the numbers don't match, there is a problem.

The unintended value to collectors in the NICB records is that you can learn what dealership a car was originally shipped to, such as Yenko, Baldwin, etc.

Unfortunately, the records are not available to the general public. It would actually be a goldmine to NICB if they would only see the light. Almost like Pontiac Historical Services selling the microfiche Pontiac invoice copies. I think a great deal of people would pay $50, $100, etc., to know what dealer their car came from originally, especially if it was thought to be from a specialty dealership.

[69 Post Sedan]

Thanks for the reply, that was very useful. But, how do some people get a NICB report and others don't?

FYI...I would easily pay $50-$100 to find out what dealer my car came from.

[67 Nova Boy]

Thank you for the detailed info!! Now I understand what and why it is so sout after.

Dave
67 Nova Boy

[67 Nova Boy]

LOL.....I watch this show all the time! Abby is soo cool!!

Dave
67 Nova Boy

[old5.0]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 69 Post Sedan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the reply, that was very useful. But, how do some people get a NICB report and others don't</div></div>

Some people are tight with a police officer.

[njsteve]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 69 Post Sedan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the reply, that was very useful. But, how do some people get a NICB report and others don't?

FYI...I would easily pay $50-$100 to find out what dealer my car came from. </div></div>

It used to be easier for a someone &quot;tight with a police officer&quot; to get the info. But now it requires an actual case number and the officer could get fired/charged with a crime for requesting the info without a legitimate law enforcement reason. In civil cases like the example of the lawsuit for the fake hemicuda ragtop, I think it would be easier for a private investigator or an attorney to still get the info, since the police are not involved. Insurance company fraud investigators use the info to prevent fraudulent insurance claims. Imagine that fake hemicuda ragtop burning to the ground and the insurance company on the hook for a couple million until they do their research and find out it was a re-VIN'd 383 car.

[Chevy454]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 69 Post Sedan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the reply, that was very useful. But, how do some people get a NICB report and others don't?

FYI...I would easily pay $50-$100 to find out what dealer my car came from. </div></div>

It used to be easier for a someone &quot;tight with a police officer&quot; to get the info. But now it requires an actual case number and the officer could get fired/charged with a crime for requesting the info without a legitimate law enforcement reason. In civil cases like the example of the lawsuit for the fake hemicuda ragtop, I think it would be easier for a private investigator or an attorney to still get the info, since the police are not involved. Insurance company fraud investigators use the info to prevent fraudulent insurance claims. Imagine that fake hemicuda ragtop burning to the ground and the insurance company on the hook for a couple million until they do their research and find out it was a re-VIN'd 383 car.</div></div>
My opinion is, that the NICB should be opened up to the collector car insurance companies...it would seem to be a valuable tool before writing policies on some of these high $$$ cars, Yenkos in particular.

[njsteve]

That is a great idea!