1967 Z28 automatic?????

[Nasblu]

Look at this guys ad for a 1967 Z28 original powerglide car? What will they come up with next!!!!Heres a quote from the ad:

""The trim tag or “cowl tag” has an M Code for Powerglide automatic, in addition to the 4L Code for 302 Z/28 Engine. It is thought that all Z/28 Camaros were equipped w/ manual 4-speed transmissions. Seller has pondered installing a 4-speed Muncie manual transmission, but then the transmission code on the trim tag would no longer correspond. Nevertheless, this may be the only known 1967 Camaro coded L for Z/28, in addition to being coded M for a Powerglide transmission on the trim tag"



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet...=item43a1d9d509 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet-Camaro-Decoded-Z-28-1967-Camaro-Trim-Tag-Decodes-4L-Z-28-and-Rally-Sport-/290478216457?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item43a1d9d509 )

[x Baldwin Motion]

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_S6PAkdF7UOY/TJg2h4-cvEI/AAAAAAAAAqw/lZpKKRpvWWI/s640/TRIMTAG.jpg

[Tarrytown SS427s]

Most likely a fake tag which was stamped wrong. Original tag probably had all of those codes except the Z28 one and when adding the 4L they didn't think to change the tranny code.

[al8apex]

their disclosure says it all, even though the say "matching" numbers ...

"It is probable that the 3892657 casting engine block has been surface milled and restamped:"

and:

"Seller has no way to verify if this vehicle is a real Z/28 RS or a clone ... "

Funny he uses JM's name but hasn't sprung for the inspection to answer the above questions regarding this car ...

[Nasblu]

Not that it really matters but whats up with that wire loom bracket? Is that gobs of weld holding that on or is that just rust bubbles under the paint?

[COPO_Anders]

There was an Antwerp built 1967 Z28 here in Sweden that was supposedly built with an automatic. But Antwerp cars are different.

[jannes_z-28]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COPO_Anders</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There was an Antwerp built 1967 Z28 here in Sweden that was supposedly built with an automatic. But Antwerp cars are different. </div></div>

Anders, they didn't make any Z/28's in Antwerp. And as far as I know there aren't any 67 Z/28'z in Sweden.

Jan

[COPO_Anders]

Janne, the guy who told me he had a 1967 Z28 built in Antwerp is a VERY competent Chevy-man, but I guess he could fool me any day.
If it was ever registered in Sweden, how would you recognize a 1967 Z28 just by looking at a VIN in the register ?
You know more about Antwerp cars than I do, but how can you say that no Camaros were assembled there with Z28 parts ? Just a few years ago even the experts in the USA said that no COPO Camaros were built in L.A., but now we know that some were built there. The same apply to Kansas-built COPO Chevelles.
I´m just trying to keep an open mind.

[iluv69s]

This car is being discussed on Camaros.net and Kurt from CRG has determined the cowl tag to be a fake. f.y.i

[m22mike]

Here it is....


http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/m22mike/Zdocs20001-1.jpg

[Tarrytown SS427s]

What a great piece of &quot;documentation&quot;. The idiot who heated the plate originally stuck to that back page couldn't even do it without burning the paper, and still stuck the new plate to it!? The protecto plate says nantucket blue, and the cowl tag says deepwater hmm.. Maybe Mr. Bonkowski can clear things up for us <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/bs.gif

[Jonesy]

This whole car is <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/bs.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/bs.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/thumbsdown.gif

[al8apex]

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=185660

POP and cowl tag are fake

a LOT of money for a clone

[PeteLeathersac]

VIN 124377N174147

What a bunch o' foolishness!.
Note the statement made by the seller in the eBoy questions area..

<span style="font-style: italic">&quot;...The car appears to have a lot of rare and valuable GM parts Z/28 parts on it, whether McNeish would certify it or not...&quot;</span>

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif
~ Pete

[AdmiralityBlue]

not that my opinion matters in such an esteemed forum of COPO owners but i'll bet any car ever made in the history of automobiles could be 'special ordered' under 'special circumstances' any way someone wanted their car built no matter option lists. for anyone to 'Guarantee' that a 67-68-69Z could'nt be special ordered or built w/an automatic tansmissions preposterious, probably (realistically)
20-40+ 67-68-69Z28's were built with automatic transmissions.

[Fast67VelleN2O]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AdmiralityBlue</div><div class="ubbcode-body">not that my opinion matters in such an esteemed forum of COPO owners but i'll bet any car ever made in the history of automobiles could be 'special ordered' under 'special circumstances' any way someone wanted their car built no matter option lists. for anyone to 'Guarantee' that a 67-68-69Z could'nt be special ordered or built w/an automatic tansmissions preposterious, probably (realistically)
20-40+ 67-68-69Z28's were built with automatic transmissions. </div></div>

You sound like the owner of the car. Your car has already been proven to have a fake cowl tag and a fake protecto plate.

[al8apex]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AdmiralityBlue</div><div class="ubbcode-body">not that my opinion matters in such an esteemed forum of COPO owners but i'll bet any car ever made in the history of automobiles could be 'special ordered' under 'special circumstances' any way someone wanted their car built no matter option lists. for anyone to 'Guarantee' that a 67-68-69Z could'nt be special ordered or built w/an automatic tansmissions preposterious, probably (realistically)
20-40+ 67-68-69Z28's were built with automatic transmissions. </div></div>

there were no 67-69 Z28's that left the assembly line in Norwood or Van Nuys that had an automatic transmission, ESPECIALLY any with a powerglide ...

this is not the only forum that knows the car is not anything close to what it is being presented as ... see above link

You should have built a &quot;rare' 67 Z28 with a powerglide AND factory air ... wow, think how more desireable that would be ...

[jannes_z-28]

They only made basecars, specials were made in Norwood or other plants if it wasn't a Camaro. The specials came in through Antwerp and got the Antwerp trimtag but it kept the Norwood tag. Several examples of that on SS cars.

So if it was a 67 Z/28 it was going through Antwerp as a special. And it wouldn't have had an auto trans.

There was a magazine claiming a Swedish Stock Dragrace car was a 67 Z/28 30 years ago, I think I've showed you that one.

Jan

[COPO_Anders]

Janne, could they have changed the car to an automatic in Antwerp ? Or maybe it was done by a dealer, who knows ?
A friend of mine who lives in Värnamo had a 1971 Antwerp Z28. I can´t remember seing a Norwood tag on that car, but it was probably there. This was years ago.
Yes I remember the dragrace car.

[AdmiralityBlue]

not the owner of the car or know the owner of the car Jim, also not attempting to challange anything you guys say 'could' or 'could not happen', you guys are the experts not me, but my dad was a 9 level executive @ Chevrolet Central Headquarters (mid 70's-mid 90's), if he was around in 67-69 and a relative or friend wanted an auto in a Z pretty sure he could've pulled some strings and made it happen. out of 26,815 Zs made between 67-69 i find it hard to believe that not a single auto made it through the system. theres probably 'hundreds' of special circumstance examples of chevrolet musclecars that were built contrary to order forms. if r.penske wanted a 68 auto Z it would've been made.

[bergy]

I agree that Chevrolet would have accommodated an executive, but some things were better handled at the dealer level - the factory had emission certifications to be concerned with for different drive train combos. I was also at Chevrolet Warren HQ - it was easy for us to mave around build schedules, and get certain special builds - but some &quot;favors&quot; were more easily accommodated at the dealer service level. If it was done at the factory on the &quot;QT&quot; - we probably wouldn't have produced a TT to document it.

[markjohnson]

Gosh, I'm already hating myself for responding on pg.3 of a disputed '67 Z-28/Powerglide but I'm having a good time tripping on P.C.P. right now.....so why not 'til this wears off. I'm sure special combinations could be &quot;special-ordered&quot; by GM exectutives, but this was usually just something like an unusual Paint request or something. Does a Holley List #3910 for '67 Z-28 applications even have a kickdown provision? What about vacuum fitting and line for the transmission modulator? What kind of radiator would have been used so it would have a transmission cooler? I don't even need to mention what a dog this car would have been with that long-duration solid camshaft and a stock convertor'ed Powerglide. It would have been embarassing slow and a laughing stock! As far as this Vietnam Vet theory.......such a veteran would have been persuaded to purchase a nice Bumblebee stripe'ed '67 automatic SS350.

[Jack_Tar]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AdmiralityBlue</div><div class="ubbcode-body">not that my opinion matters in such an esteemed forum of COPO owners but i'll bet any car ever made in the history of automobiles could be 'special ordered' under 'special circumstances' any way someone wanted their car built no matter option lists. for anyone to 'Guarantee' that a 67-68-69Z could'nt be special ordered or built w/an automatic tansmissions preposterious, probably (realistically)
20-40+ 67-68-69Z28's were built with automatic transmissions. </div></div>

Let's face it, if this were a real 67 Z28 1 of 1 automatic the reserve would be at lease 150k.

[Big Block Bill]

And if it was real, I don't think it would have a Powerglide in it....

Bill

[TimG]

Sometimes rare doesn't mean desirable.

[John]

If it were only a convertible.......Hmmmm?

[al8apex]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Big Block Bill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And if it was real, I don't think it would have a Powerglide in it....

Bill </div></div>

Yes, GM already knew that the Turbo 400 was the HD transmission ...

total fabrication of &quot;facts&quot; by this seller in an effort to sell his clone / fake tag car

[al8apex]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AdmiralityBlue</div><div class="ubbcode-body">not the owner of the car or know the owner of the car Jim, also not attempting to challange anything you guys say 'could' or 'could not happen', you guys are the experts not me, but my dad was a 9 level executive @ Chevrolet Central Headquarters (mid 70's-mid 90's), if he was around in 67-69 and a relative or friend wanted an auto in a Z pretty sure he could've pulled some strings and made it happen. out of 26,815 Zs made between 67-69 i find it hard to believe that not a single auto made it through the system. theres probably 'hundreds' of special circumstance examples of chevrolet musclecars that were built contrary to order forms. if r.penske wanted a 68 auto Z it would've been made. </div></div>

wrong again, but keep trying <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

[PeteLeathersac]

Since SS350-Automatics weren't available for '67 cars either, anyone wanting a performance engine w/ an auto would've probably been 'steered' into an L35/M40 car!.


<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif
~ Pete

[njsteve]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: al8apex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">not the owner of the car or know the owner of the car Jim, also not attempting to challange anything you guys say 'could' or 'could not happen', you guys are the experts not me, but my dad was a 9 level executive @ Chevrolet Central Headquarters (mid 70's-mid 90's), if he was around in 67-69 and a relative or friend wanted an auto in a Z pretty sure he could've pulled some strings and made it happen. out of 26,815 Zs made between 67-69 i find it hard to believe that not a single auto made it through the system. theres probably 'hundreds' of special circumstance examples of chevrolet musclecars that were built contrary to order forms. if r.penske wanted a 68 auto Z it would've been made. </div></div>


I can see the bumper sticker now:

WHAT WOULD PENSKE DO?


(I think he would have ordered a Chevy II with an L88 backed up by a powerglide and a 2.76 single leg rear dif with dual underdash mounted tissue dispensers loaded with alternating blue and yellow Kleenex tissues)

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif

[Canuck]

Why didn't Chevrolet put the TH400 in the Corvette in 67 rather than continue with the PG as the only automatic choice? Oldsmobile offered the TH400 in their 442.
Was the TH400 offered in the Ss396 Chevelle and SS396 Camaro?

Paul

[SuperNovaSS]

????? What do you mean no SS350 automatics?

[resto4u]

Anybody that knows anything about automatics, already knows why they did not use an automatic. You would have to have a min.3200 rpm stall converter. These engines with the 4-speed are not even driver friendly, they are a handful. And mine came with the rare scca prototype chambered exhaust. Roger

[al8apex]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Canuck</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why didn't Chevrolet put the TH400 in the Corvette in 67 rather than continue with the PG as the only automatic choice? Oldsmobile offered the TH400 in their 442.
Was the TH400 offered in the Ss396 Chevelle and SS396 Camaro?

Paul </div></div>

yes, my understanding is the trans tunnel on the 63-67 was not large enough for the t-400 ... 68 &amp; up vettes had the t-400 though

[markjohnson]

Chevrolet didn't get TH400's sorted out for high performance applications until 1968, most notably the Fred Gibb COPO 396-375 Novas. In 1969 though, you could pretty much get them across the board in everything to 396-375 L-78's all the way up to the King......the '69 ZL-1 427 Camaro. It's also kinda funny to note that if you wanted to go fast with an automatic tranny in a Chevrolet application, companies like Wilcap and Art Carr sold adapter kits to put a Chrysler Pushbutton Torqueflite behind Chevrolet cars. It even came with a neat console/tower to mount the push button panel between the seats in the stock console area. I know of an aluminum front Z-11 car locally here that ended up with a Torqueflite after breaking many 4-speeds.

[Big Block Bill]

in the late 70's I used to work on a customers documented RS/SS 350 convertible, and it had a power glide in it. He was the second owner &amp; he had all the original paperwork for it.

Bill

[TimG]

Years ago I had a '65 Corvette roadster that had been modified with a turbo 350 or 400 (can't remember now). It was a blast, you had no idea what gear you were in acording to the shifter plate. It was hot and banged against the transmission tunnel. I do know why they didn't produce that combination. It was fun in the early 80's, though.

[Jonesy]

The owner is here:

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=185884

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=185921

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=185660

and he just doesnt get it.

[jannes_z-28]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COPO_Anders</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Janne, could they have changed the car to an automatic in Antwerp ? Or maybe it was done by a dealer, who knows ?
A friend of mine who lives in Värnamo had a 1971 Antwerp Z28. I can´t remember seing a Norwood tag on that car, but it was probably there. This was years ago.
Yes I remember the dragrace car. </div></div>

I don't think so, if it had an automatic it would have been changed by someone else, and as said in another post, it would have needed a high rpm stallspeed converter. Not fun to drive on the street.

1968 was the last year they put American cars together in Antwerp, after that they were only imported and in some cases got extra equipement added, like sunroofs. So that '71 would have had a Norwood tag on it.


Jan

[PeteLeathersac]

To clarify my last posting, I was referring to 3-Spd Autos not being avalable w/ L48 and L35/M40 the RPO choice for performance w/ a 3-Spd Auto..

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif
~ Pete