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View Full Version : LT1 compared to L79


black69
10-01-2010, 09:45 PM
Had innocent question: Are the LT1 and L79 motors close enough in idle behavior that if you could get an auto with one (LT1=yes?), why not the other. I heard a L79 could never keep an automatic happy, so thats why one was never offered, but is an LT1 that much different really at idle in gear? same HP with just a little more displacement?
curious on how different they really are.
-bob

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY
10-01-2010, 10:50 PM
I think they are night and day, LT1's rock and the L79's are junk! JK of course, <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif

Good question, and one that my ole buddy Neal and I debated at length. I was on the LT1 side, but had never driven an L79 where Neal owned 4 Yenko Deuces and a '66 L79 Nova. He felt that the L79 might be the better combo, even given the small carb and hydraulic cam - just short on cubes.

kwhizz
10-01-2010, 11:26 PM
In 66 I bought a new L-79 Nova.....with just slicks and headers the car ran a best of 13.12.........3:73 and a close ratio...........

Ken

Mr.Nickey Nova
10-02-2010, 12:04 AM
The L79's if tuned right with a good driver would beat up on the big block cars including some Hemi's.I was told this by someone who street raced back in the day with a L79 ChevyII,also read it somewhere too.

Bill Pritchard
10-02-2010, 12:27 AM
Keep the time frame in mind here...in 65 and 66, when the L79 was at the peak of its popularity, the most popular automatic in a Chevy was the Powerglide. The T400 was a new transmission at the time, and restricted to use behind the tamer big blocks (which were also 'new'). I feel pretty confident in saying that an L79/PG combo would not be the hot setup <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/no.gif , which could be the major reason it was never offered. By 1969, when automatics became relatively common behind high performance Chevy engines, the L79 was history.

Jeff H
10-02-2010, 12:54 AM
If you're talking stock, I don't think you can really compare a solid lifter engine to a hydraulic lifter engine, especially idle quality, vacuum and putting behind an auto trans.

jbsides
10-02-2010, 01:10 AM
I'm with Jeff. In '71 I was turning in 14 flat with a bone stock '70 Z LT-1 T-400 combo, went to slicks and headers for consistent low 12's.

JB

markjohnson
10-02-2010, 01:51 AM
I recently sold an original 1968 Nova L-79 327-325 HP 4-Speed that I had purchased from the original owner. It still had it's original motor, tranny and 3.55 gear'ed 12-bolt. Even though the L-79 was tamed down a bit in 1968 with a Q-Jet/cast iron intake, it still had all the good stuff underneath: 11.00:1 Compression, 2.02 heads and that famous #151 camshaft. It even came with the original Blue Streak slicks in the trunk that were purchased for it when it was brand new! It's kinda like a prehistoric Yenko Deuce! Anyway, I would have loved to turn it into a Pure Stock car and seen just how fast it would have been capable of. It would have been a great race between a '68 Nova L-79 vs. '70 Yenko Deuce LT-1.

black69
10-02-2010, 02:41 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeff H</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you're talking stock, I don't think you can really compare a solid lifter engine to a hydraulic lifter engine, especially idle quality, vacuum and putting behind an auto trans.</div></div>

wouldn't hydraulic vs solid lifter be irrelavant at idle? doesn't the lifter type difference come in to play at the top end of the rpm curve (solid lifters win). I am still stumped on why some say a L79 can't idle smoothly while in gear with an PG (the main reason it was not offered). I agreed with that until I noticed the LT1 came with autos, so thus the questions above. GM offered a 409 340hp (not a performance slouch) with a PG, as one example that was 10HP down from a L79. I picture a L79 to be hard to manage to keep at idle at lower RPMs. The LT1 has to be happier down in the lower RPMs when in drive in an auto application.
The vacuum difference I do not get at all between the 2 engines.

SuperNovaSS
10-02-2010, 03:23 AM
I don't believe it has anything to do with the differences between the L79 and LT1 or hydraulic vs. solid lifters. The fact is, there was not not a production trans ready for the higher shift points and heavy duty usage to readily handle the L79. Couple that with the fact that the low shift point between first and second would take the L79 out of its power band and its a recipe for low performance and warranty work due to self shifting and back yard tinkering.

The torque converter would allow the engine to idle with no problem no matter what the cam was. It is the fact that it was not logical to put a low RPM shifting 2 speed auto behind an aggresive V8 that stopped the L79 from being coupled with an auto. I for one am glad it never was.

Jason

Tommy
10-02-2010, 10:21 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think they are night and day, LT1's rock and the L79's are junk! JK of course, <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif

</div></div> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: markjohnson</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It's kinda like a prehistoric Yenko Deuce! Anyway, I would have loved to turn it into a Pure Stock car and seen just how fast it would have been capable of. It would have been a great race between a '68 Nova L-79 vs. '70 Yenko Deuce LT-1.</div></div>


I'd like to see it too! That L79 would probably suck the stripes off that Primer colored car when it motored on by <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

Tommy <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

ORIGLS6
10-05-2010, 03:36 PM
You're talking apples and oranges with the L-79 engines. Compare the '65 Chevelle and '66 Chevy II L-79 to the '68 Chevelle &amp; Chevy II versions; Something of a downhill evolution in performance terms.
Kwhizz had the GOOD one. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY
10-05-2010, 04:10 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tommy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think they are night and day, LT1's rock and the L79's are junk! JK of course, <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif

</div></div> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: markjohnson</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It's kinda like a prehistoric Yenko Deuce! Anyway, I would have loved to turn it into a Pure Stock car and seen just how fast it would have been capable of. It would have been a great race between a '68 Nova L-79 vs. '70 Yenko Deuce LT-1.</div></div>


I'd like to see it too! That L79 would probably suck the stripes off that Primer colored car when it motored on by <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

Tommy <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif </div></div>

Ahhhh Grasshopper! We all wish the same, <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif

Food for thought, just my recollection from my time at the Pure Stock Drags.

A truly stock LT1 Nova is easily capable of running very low 13's without headers, traction bars or slicks - just ask Pete Simpson. My own shiny-primer Deuce has run 13.5's at near 106mph with a rookie driver, tired leafs, air shocks and a few spring clamps: there is plenty more left in my own car!

A truly stock L79 Nova might pull a mid 13 with a Pete Simpson tune. I'm suggesting that not because of Neal's L79 Nova that he ran at the pure stocks, bec quite frankly that car was the furthest thing from stock (it had some 600+ lift roller cam in it, talk about idle quality <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif ), Neal's best time that weekend was 13.09 I believe, close box, 4.56 gear. I'm rather suggesting that because of what I believe was a truly stock L79 Chevelle that was running in the low 14's possibly high 13's. Factor out the weight diff and an L79 Nova is good for mid 13's.

Now, if someone were to throw down and lay out a LT1 Nova vs. L79 Nova....... that would be fun, <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

ORIGLS6
10-05-2010, 04:53 PM
Pure Stock Drags last month.

Thomas Payne's '66 Chevy II, L-79 4 speed, 4.56 gears. 13.145 @ 107.50

And YES, I'd love to see an L-79/LT-1 match-up on the track. Both are killer engines with a slight nod to the LT-1 strictly due to CI.

SmallHurst
10-05-2010, 05:59 PM
And Tom last year ran a 12.93 with his stripped down, bare bones, knuckle draggin', hub-cap-wearin', fire breathin', 327!!!!

Chevy454
10-05-2010, 06:05 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ORIGLS6</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pure Stock Drags last month.

Thomas Payne's '66 Chevy II, L-79 4 speed, 4.56 gears. 13.145 @ 107.50
</div></div>
Just for comparison's sake, Owen Simpson did a 12.909 @ 107+ this year at Stanton...and has been in the 12.80s @ 108+...all of this while running an insanely stock [and tired!] LT-1. My gut tells me a full-boogie LT-1 Nova will be coming down the pipe soon...

Payne's '66 = 3,066 pounds
Simpson's '70 = 3,466 pounds

L-79 Nova
10-05-2010, 07:05 PM
I think comparing ANY car that races at the PURE STOCK events is not a part of the real word, 9 second hemi's, 10 second L-88 vettes, come on. Ron....

Chevy454
10-05-2010, 07:33 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: L-79 Nova</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think comparing ANY car that races at the PURE STOCK events is not a part of the real word, 9 second hemi's, 10 second L-88 vettes, come on. Ron.... </div></div>
Wrong event...you're thinking of the F.A.S.T. series [Factory Appearing Stock Tires], we're talking about P.S.M.C.D.R. cars [Pure Stock Muscle Car Drag Race]...2 entirely different racing series!

Xplantdad
10-05-2010, 08:01 PM
Rob, the latter series is just for super tuned and well set up suspension cars, right?

Chevy454
10-05-2010, 08:06 PM
Bruce: &quot;yes&quot;, sort of!

PSMCDR rules:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rules Print E-mail

The rules for 2010 will be posted once they are available.

The most important rule: Your musclecar must be completely stock, like it rolled off the assembly line, except for the rule modifications allowed below. If a modification is not listed below, keep it original. Remember, the goal is to have fun while drag racing your musclecar. Supertune it to comply with the rules. At the same time, see old friends, make new ones, all while representing your musclecar in original factory form.

For 1955 to 1974 muscle cars built in United States and Canadian assembly plants with a minimum warranty of 12 months and 12,000 miles. Factory lightweight cars built for sanctioned drag racing and dealership-built/modified cars are not eligible to participate. Cars must be factory equipped with a minimum of four-barrel carburetion, dual exhaust, and other factory-installed equipment that promotes a high-performance intent and image. Cars paired up based on time trial e.t.s and compete in a best-of-three heads-up shootout.
Body

The original appearance must be maintained. No after-market panels of any kind are allowed. No &quot;custom&quot; paint colors, designs, or lettering are allowed. The car must maintain the stock ride-height. Raising or lowering either the front or the back of the car is not allowed. The car must have a presentable appearance. No primered areas, mismatched paint, or large rust-holes allowed.

Bumpers must retain all original bracing and reinforcements. 1996/1996_004Inner fender panels, front and rear, must be retained. Factory hood scoops, ram air, and fresh air induction must be correct for the year, make, and horsepower claimed. No after-market or homemade induction units of any kind are allowed. The factory air cleaner assembly must be retained and in place during all runs. No after-market air cleaners allowed.

Interior seating, trim, and materials must be correct for the year and model claimed. After-market tachometers and gauges are allowed if mounted on the steering column or under the dash, except for some factory tachs mounted on top of the dashboard. OEM glass only. All windows must be functional and closed during all runs.
Drivetrain

Automatic Transmissions: The transmission and torque converter must be correct for the year, make, and horsepower claimed. Torque converters must be within one inch of O.E.M. diameter. Shift improver kits are allowed. Aftermarket shifters are not allowed. No manual valve bodies. No lightweight purpose built drag racing transmissions allowed.

Manual Transmissions: The transmission must be correct for the year, make, and horsepower claimed. 3-speeds may be upgraded to the correct 4-speed if originally available. after-market H-pattern shifters are allowed if no modifications to the floorpan are necessary. Line locks are not allowed. Scattershields are okay. No conversions from column-shift to floor shift allowed unless available as a factory option.

Rear Axles: The rear axle must be of the same manufacturer as the car. Any gear ratio is allowed. Driveshaft safety loops are mandatory on all cars 13.99 and faster!
Engine

Engine: Must be factory correct for the year, model, and horsepower claimed. Dealer installed engines and dealer performed engine modifications are not allowed. Casting numbers must be correct for the year and horsepower claimed including intake manifold, heads, and exhaust manifolds. Modifications are prohibited. Blocks do not have to be &quot;numbers-matching,&quot; but they must be the correct displacement. Overbores up to .070&quot; are allowed. Stock cranks only. NO strokers! Random P&amp;G checks are possible. No lightweight cranks, aftermarket cranks, or connecting rods allowed. Pistons must be of the original design for the year and horsepower claimed. Replacement forged pistons are allowed. Compression ratios limited to N.H.R.A. maximum, based on stock eliminator class engine blueprint bulletins. Torque straps are allowed for safety reasons. No after-market blocks allowed.

Electrical System: The battery must be retained in the original location and securely fastened down with the original style hold down. The charging system must be fully operational at all times. The removal of the alternator belt is not allowed. Lightweight batteries are NOT allowed.

Fuel System and Carburetor: The carburetor must be correct for the year, make, and horsepower claimed. Jetting and metering changes are permitted. THE CHOKE ASSEMBLY MUST BE IN PLACE AND FUNCTIONAL! Mechanical secondary carburetors cannot be substituted if vacuum operated units were original to the car. Mechanical fuel pumps must be retained. Electric fuel pumps are NOT allowed. No fuel pressure gauges are allowed. Factory fuel lines are required. No rubber lines allowed unless originally equipped as such.

Pulleys: All pulleys must be factory issue, and they must have the correct diameters for the year and horsepower claimed for the engine. Belts running the water pump, alternator, and power steering must be retained at all times. Air conditioning belts may be removed if they do not affect other components.

Valve Train: The complete valve train must be factory stock for the year, make, and horsepower claimed. Rocker arm ratio must be correct for the year and horsepower claimed. Roller tip rockers are allowed as long as correct ratio is used. OEM-style replacement lifters only. (No trick racing type allowed). No full-roller rocker arms allowed. Random requests for valve cover removal WILL happen. Poly-lock type adjustable nuts, jam (crimp) nuts, and adjustable pushrods are allowed. Valve covers must be correct for the year, make, and horsepower claimed. Maximum valve spring seat pressure allowed will be 140 p.s.i.

Camshaft: The camshaft must be correct for the year, model, and horsepower claimed for duration, lift, and type of lifter (hydraulic or solid). No roller cams allowed. Engines must be able to produce at least 16.0 inches of vacuum at 1200 rpm. However, some factory-produced engines were not able to generate 16.0 inches in showroom condition, so those cars will be given a variance to the rule.

Exhaust: Cast iron exhaust manifolds are mandatory and must be correct for the year, model, and horsepower claimed. NO internal modifications to the exhaust manifolds are allowed. Under no circumstances will headers be allowed, including those cars that came with headers delivered in the trunk. The exhaust system may be upgraded to a maximum of 2.5-inch head and tail pipes. Pipes must be routed as they were originally for the year, make, model, and engine combination. Mufflers must be stock-looking in design, that is, oval in shape. No glasspacks or straight-through pipes allowed unless installed as original equipment. Maximum muffler inlet and outlet size is 2.5 inches.

Ignition System: The ignition system must be stock, including the distributor, cap, coil, and wires. Points may be replaced with any electronic conversion that fits under the stock distributor cap. Replacement coils are allowed as long as they are the correct shape, color, and size. Coils must be mounted in the correct location with correct brackets for the make, year, and engine combination. Spark plug wires must be of correct appearance in size and color for the vehicle. Ignition boxes allowed for ignition and rev. limiter purposes only. Ignition boxes must be hidden to maintain stock appearance under hood.

Cooling System: The radiator must be correct for the year, make, model, and horsepower claimed. No lightweight, aluminum radiators allowed. Overflow catch cans of at least 16 ounces are required. Radiator shrouds must be correct for the application. The fan must be factory original and correct for the year, model, and horsepower claimed. No after-market &quot;lightweight&quot; flex-fans allowed.
Suspension

Front Suspension: Stock springs and shocks must be retained. Drag springs and shocks that allow excessive lift during launches are NOT allowed. The front sway bar must be retained, and it must be functional at all times. Raising or lowering of the front end is not allowed.

Rear Suspension: Traction devices are limited to hop-stop bars for the upper control arms on coil-spring cars. Pinion snubbers and clamping of springs are allowed on leaf-spring cars. No slapper bars or ladder bars of any kind are allowed unless originally equipped at the factory. Factory documentation will be required to prove authenticity for any car equipped with bolt-on traction devices. No dealer-installed traction devices allowed. After-market upper and lower control arms for coil spring cars are not allowed. Raising or lowering of the rear end is not allowed.

Tires &amp; Wheels: Reproduction tires or radial tires only. No soft compound tires of any kind allowed. Retread tires are not allowed. Use of traction compounds or rubber-softening chemicals on tires are strictly prohibited. Tire size must approximate what was originally installed on the car. All four tires must be the same size. No 60-series tires will be allowed unless they were originally available for the car's year and model. 60-series tires must be run on 15-inch rims as they were originally. Cars built before the introduction of 70-series Polyglas or Wide Ovals are allowed to upgrade to 70-series tires of appropriate size for the car. Please call for clarification. Suspicious tires will be durometered. Factory wheels only. Wheels must be correct in size, offset, and style for the car's make, model, and year. All four wheels must be the same size and offset.
Safety

Drivers must wear long pants. Cars 13.99 and quicker must have an approved Snell 2000 helmet! Batteries must be secured down. All cars must have seatbelts for the driver. All wheelstuds must be present and lugnuts tight. Radiators must have an overflow catch can of at least 16 ounces. All accessory belts MUST be in place and tight to operate the water pump, alternator and power steering (A/C belt may be removed). Cars 13.99 and quicker must have a driveshaft safety loop! We highly recommend carrying a fire extinguisher in your car at all times. No passengers allowed in participating vehicles.
Attention: Please Read

1. No passengers allowed in participating vehicles.
2. Wristbands for drivers mandatory.
3. Guest driver wristbands mandatory.
4. If you run faster than 3/10 during shoot-outs, you forfeit the shoot-out.
5. No more working on vehicles in the pits after the scheduled time of closing. We will be locking the gates. If you need to work on vehicles, please do so outside the gate or back at the hotel.
6. Air cleaners must be on engine during time trials and shoot-outs.
</div></div>

FAST rules:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">F.A.S.T. racing is for 1955 to 1974 muscle cars built in United States and Canadian assembly plants. Factory lightweight cars built for sanctioned drag racing and dealership built/modified cars are not eligible to participate. Cars must have been originally equipped with a minimum of four-barrel carburetion, dual exhaust, and other factory installed equipment that promotes a high performance image.

NOTE: Throughout this rules document, all references to “correct*” acknowledge that it is “proper for the year, make, model and horsepower claimed, for both the car and engine claimed. The car year, make, model, body style and engine combination must all have been produced and available to the general public in the year claimed, in an actual car.”

Most parts of the car will fall into one of four categories:

1) Correct* OEM parts. These parts must be proper for the year, make, model, and horsepower claimed, and they must be Original Equipment Manufactured (OEM) parts. Examples: Intake manifold and cylinder heads.

2) Correct* parts. These parts are the same as Correct* OEM parts, except they do not need to be OEM manufactured. Reproduction parts, that duplicate the Correct* Original parts in appearance, form, function and material and are primarily designed as “restoration” parts are allowed, as long as they comply with all other applicable rules. Examples: wheels, upholstery, emblems, replacement sheet metal, etc.

3) Spec parts. Parts that meet a specification defined in the rules, but are not necessarily Correct* or stock appearing. Examples: tires, exhaust system. Note: Every effort should be made to achieve a stock “look” with these parts. For example; your car did not come from the factory with a 2-1/2” mandrel bent exhaust system. But it is specified in the rules that you may run one. Do not have it powder coated pink or highly polished stainless. Rather, try to keep the finish somewhat consistent with what the original correct* exhaust system would have been.

4) Correct Appearing. Everything not specified otherwise must be correct appearing. “Correct appearing” and “appearing correct” means: upon a cursory visual inspection by someone reasonably familiar with the year, make and model claimed, it looks like a correct* part.


ANYONE USING NITROUS OXIDE WILL BE BANNED FROM PARTICIPATING FOR LIFE!


1.00 BODY
1.01 The correct* original appearance must be retained.
1.02 No custom or fiberglass replacement panels are allowed.
Car frame and body, including bumpers, must be made from correct* original material.
Repro parts are OK if made from correct* original material, ie: repro fiberglass hood on 440 six-pack.
1.03 No &quot;custom&quot; paint colors, designs, or lettering is allowed.
Paint color must appear stock. Graphics (for advertising or creative purposes) will not be allowed anywhere on the vehicles. Only correct* graphics will be allowed. Example: Dodge Scat Pack bumble bees ,Hurst Olds, Yenko graphics, etc. Exception: F.A.S.T. sticker as provided by and placed as directed by F.A.S.T. Directors.
1.04 Front and rear car height must appear correct.
1.05 Bumpers, fenders and under hood must retain all correct* bracing and reinforcements.
1.06 Correct* inner fender panels, front and rear, must be retained.
1.07 Factory hood scoops, ram air, fresh air induction must appear correct.
1.08 Interior seating, trim, and materials must appear correct.
1.09 Aftermarket tachs and gauges are allowed if mounted on the steering column or under the dash.
1.10 Correct* glass only. All windows must be functional and closed during all runs.
1.11 Hood must be fully closed during all runs.
1.12 Wheel base must be correct*, within +/- 1&quot; of original factory spec.
1.13 The outside car body must maintain correct* original dimensions.


2.00 ENGINE
2.01 Engine block must appear to be a correct* original block and it must be an original vintage OEM or vintage OEM replacement of the same engine family and exterior size and must be made from the same material as the correct* original block. Also, a new OEM replacement block is allowed only if it duplicates a legal vintage block in design, material, appearance, bore size and performance. No aftermarket blocks are allowed. Replacement OEM blocks that have raised decks, raised cam or bigger bores are not allowed. Block casting number does not have to be correct*. No aftermarket blocks allowed.
For example:
a. A correct* 400 cid block could be replaced with a vintage, OEM 455 block, if it appears externally correct*, and is made from the correct* material.
b. A correct* Mopar 340 could use a 318, 340 or a 360 block, if it appears externally correct*, and is made from the correct* material.
c. A correct* 327 Chevy can use a 350 or 400 block, if it appears externally correct*, and is made from the correct* material.
d. Mopar Hemi standard replacement block is allowed, but a Siamese bore Mega block is not.
Only early Hemi restoration blocks are allowed. For clarification, Email Dave Dudek @ [email protected].
e. GM ZL1 replacement block # 3946053 is allowed.
2.02 Dealer installed engines and dealer performed modifications are not allowed.
2.03 Cylinder Heads and Intake Manifold MUST be correct* OEM casting, have correct* original casting numbers and be of correct* original material.
This may very well be the most important and teched F.A.S.T. rule.
Note: Any cylinder head or intake manifold that is not the correct* casting number, must be approved and published on the F.A.S.T. website.
Casting date codes are not looked at and are not part of the tech process.
2.04 Internal engine modifications OK.
2.05 The entire engine compartment and engine assembly, including accessories, must appear correct, except for items specifically defined otherwise in these rules. Appearance of the engine will be inspected with the air filter housing off and on. Removal of pollution control air pump is allowed. Engine torque strap OK.
Engine color should appear stock.
2.06 No Nitrous Oxide allowed.
2.07 Lightweight mini starters OK. If painted to appear as stock as possible.
2.08 Aftermarket harmonic balancers are OK, if painted to appear as stock as possible.
2.09 Maximum of 2 OEM type intake manifold gaskets allowed between manifold and cylinder head.


3.00 FUEL SYSTEM AND CARBURETOR
3.01 The carburetor must appear externally correct*.
Internal modifications are OK. Carburetor housing must be the correct* housing for your application. The stamped part number need not be correct*. For example any 750 Q-jet can replace any 750 Q-jet as long as it externally appears correct*, but an 800 Q-jet cannot replace a 750 Q-jet, even if it does appear externally correct.
3.02 Carb choke flap and assembly is optional.
3.03 Choke horn removal is not allowed.
3.04 Carb spacers are not allowed
3.05 Maximum of 2 OEM type gaskets allowed under carb.
3.06 The air filter housing assembly must appear correct.
All qualifying and race runs must be done with the correct appearing air filter housing and an air filter in place. Correctly sized aftermarket air filters are OK.
3.07 The correct* mechanical fuel pump must be retained.
3.08 Electric fuel pumps are allowed if mounted in a location out of view.
Fuel regulators and fuel pressure gauges are OK, if mounted in a location out of view.
3.09 Correct* fuel lines are required from engine mounted mechanical fuel pump to carburetor.
3.10 Fuel lines from tank to mechanical pump may be upgraded.
3.11 Gasoline as outlined here is the only acceptable fuel for use in F.A.S.T..
The F.A.S.T. tech inspector reserves the right to check gasoline at any time during competition. Gasoline is defined as a mixture of hydrocarbons only. The average dielectric constant (D.C.) for the hydrocarbons that compromises gasoline is 2.025. This is defined as a reading of &quot;0&quot; on the fuel-check meter.
3.12 Nitrous Oxide is NOT allowed. ANYONE USING NITROUS OXIDE WILL BE BANNED FROM PARTICIPATING FOR LIFE!
3.13 Propylene Oxide, Nitro-methane, alcohol and nitro-propane are NOT allowed.

4.00 EXHAUST
4.01 Cast iron exhaust manifolds are mandatory and must be correct*, have correct* casting numbers and be of correct* material. Under no circumstances will headers be allowed, including those cars that had headers delivered in the trunk.
Internal modifications are OK. Correct* appearing exhaust manifold paint or coatings are OK. Casting date codes are not looked at and are not part of the tech process.
4.02 Even if equipped from the factory with cut-outs, all runs must be made with closed exhaust running through the mufflers.
4.03 Exhaust systems may be upgraded to a maximum of 2.5&quot; diameter head and tail pipes.
Exception: Certain Max Wedge cars left the factory with 3&quot; inch head pipes, these cars can retain these head pipes up to, but not past, the transmission tail-shaft. Even if equipped from the factory with cut-outs, all runs must be made with closed exhaust running through the mufflers.
4.04 Mufflers must be stock looking in design.
No welded mufflers allowed. Maximum muffler inlet and outlet is 2.5”.
4.05 Exhaust pipes must exit in the correct* original location.
4.06 Excessive exhaust leaks are not allowed.
4.07 &quot;X&quot; and &quot;H&quot; pipes are allowed. The “X” pipe assembly can not exceed 24” in length.
4.08 Maximum of 2 OEM type exhaust manifold gaskets allowed between manifold and cylinder head.

5.00 VALVE COVERS
5.01 Valve covers must appear correct.
5.02 Valve cover spacers are not allowed.
5.03 Maximum of 2 OEM type gaskets under each valve cover allowed.

6.00 CAMSHAFT
6.01 Camshaft must produce a correct* stock sound at idle. We all know what a STOCK cam sounds like! Factory cam specs will be taken into consideration when determining the correct* idle sound.
Example: An Olds W30 or a Mopar Max Wedge car had large cams from the factory. They will not be expected to idle as smoothly as a 1973 400. Camshaft lopiness and smoothness will be teched with the engine operating at idle RPM and from the exhaust outlets. Upgrade to solid flat tappet or roller cam OK. Mechanical sounds from the valve train are not a tech item.

Note: The camshaft rule is under investigation, so that it may be better enforced. Currently there are no changes but the F.A.S.T. Board will be conducting various tests during the 2010 racing year to determine the best way to tech for this. During 2010 there will be testing of cars done at the track (during normal F.A.S.T. tech) to document engine vacuum, idle rpm, db sound levels, ect. These test results will be used to better clarify, test and enforce the spirit of the F.A.S.T. camshaft rule.

7.00 PULLEYS
7.01 All pulleys must be correct*. Aluminum pulleys are not legal.
7.02 Belts running the water pump and alternator must be retained at all times.

8.00 IGNITION SYSTEM
8.01 The distributor, distributor cap and coil must appear correct,
Distributor housing does not need to have original part number stamped in body.
8.02 Coil must be retained in the correct* location.
8.03 Aftermarket ignition boxes allowed, if mounted out of sight.
8.04 Spark plug wires and boots must be black, (or of the correct* original color if the correct* original color is not black) 8mm maximum diameter, and have NO aftermarket lettering on them.
Aftermarket spark plug wires are OK if they conform to the above rules.

9.00 COOLING SYSTEM
9.01 The radiator, fan and radiator shroud must appear correct.
Replacement radiator caps are OK. No electric fans.
9.02 Overflow cans of at least 20 oz. are required.
Aftermarket overflow cans OK, if car originally did not have one. If an aftermarket overflow can is used, racers are encouraged to hide the overflow can as best they can with paint and placement.

10.00 ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
10.01 The battery must be retained in the correct* location, be functional and securely fastened down with original style hold down.
Original looking batteries are encouraged but not required, Replacement batteries are OK.
10.02 The charging system must be fully operational at all times.
10.03 Under hood wiring should appear correct.

11.00 DRIVETRAIN
11.01 Cars that were only available with a manual transmission may not convert to an automatic. And vice/versa.
For example: 1969 Camaro Z-28 only came from the factory with a manual transmission, so an automatic would not be legal.
11.02 The transmission must be of the same manufacturer as the car.
For example: an Olds with a TH400 could change to a TH350 or Powerglide, and a Chevy with a Saginaw could change to a Muncie or other GM 4 speed trans. Transmission casting numbers are not a tech issue. Internal modifications are OK.
11.03 OEM appearing aftermarket cases are OK.
11.10 Automatic Transmission:
11.11 Any torque converter is OK.
11.12 Aftermarket shifters are not allowed.
11.13 Maximum 3 forward gears.
11.20 Manual Transmission:
11.21 Any clutch/pressure plate assembly is OK. Scatter shields are OK.
11.22 3 speeds may be upgraded to a 4 speed.
11.23 Shifter must be stock appearing.
11.24 Maximum 4 forward gears.
11.30 Drive Shaft:
11.31 Aftermarket drive shaft is OK. Maximum 3.5” diameter.
Aftermarket drive shafts should be painted, to appear as stock as possible.

12.00 REAR AXLES
12.01 The rear axle housing must be of the same manufacturer as the car. OEM appearing aftermarket housings are OK.
Internal modifications are OK. Any gear ratio allowed. Aftermarket axles are OK.
Upgrade to posi-unit or spool is OK.

13.00 SUSPENSION
13.10 Rear Suspension:
13.11 Traction devices are limited to hop stop bars for upper control arms on coil spring cars.
13.12 Upper and lower control arms on coil spring cars must be correct*.
13.13 Pinion snubbers and clamping of leaf springs are allowed on leaf spring cars.
13.14 No slapper bars or ladder bars of any kind are allowed, unless originally equipped from the factory. Factory documentation will be required to prove authenticity for any cars with bolt on traction devices.
No dealer installed traction devices allowed.
13.15 Aftermarket bushings OK.
Must be the correct* original color.
13.16 Shocks and springs must appear correct.
Aftermarket adjustable shocks are OK if painted to appear correct.
13.17 Air bags are not allowed.
13.20 Front Suspension:
13.21 The front sway bar is optional.
13.22 Aftermarket shocks, bushings and springs are OK, but must be painted to appear correct. No other aftermarket front suspension parts are allowed.

14.00 TIRES AND WHEELS AND BRAKES
14.01 Wheels must be correct*, including correct* diameter, width and material.
Note: Width may be upgraded to a maximum of 6”, if the correct* wheel is narrower than that. Reproduction wheels OK.
14.02 All 4 wheels and tires must be same size.
Exception: Mopar TA Challenger came from factory with G-60’s on rear and F-60’s on front.
14.03 Original equipment reproduction bias-ply tires only. No soft compound tires of any kind are allowed. Retread tires are not allowed. Any car is allowed to upgrade to a maximum size tire of G-70 of the correct* wheel diameter. All cars that were originally available with a 60 series tire can upgrade to a maximum size of G-60 tire of the correct* wheel diameter.
Exception: First time F.A.S.T. participants are allowed to run normal ’non-sticky’ street radials for their first F.A.S.T. race.
14.04 Aftermarket or OEM brake upgrades are allowed for safety concerns. Every effort should be made to achieve a stock appearance.
14.05 Line locks are allowed if hidden.


15.00 TRACK TECH
15.01 All track safety rules apply and you must pass track tech.
When required by track safety rules, roll bars and aftermarket seat belts will not be cause for disqualification under the 'stock appearing' requirement in the F.A.S.T. rules. We require that everyone racing in the F.A.S.T. class maintain a stock image and appearance as best they can. Every effort should be made to integrate required safety equipment with a correct appearance. Careful shaping and placement of the roll bar tubes to hide them as best as possible and painting of the roll bar is one way to try and blend in the roll bar with the interior.

16.00 UNDER BODY
16.01 Underside of vehicle needs to appear correct when viewed from ground level, 3 feet outside perimeter of the car.
Exceptions to this are any components specifically identified and mentioned in the rules.

17.00 ET SPECIFIC TECHING
17.01 11.50 - Any car that runs 11.50 or quicker any time during the event will be subject to a mandatory cylinder head casting # and material check via valve cover removal.
17.02 10.70 - Any car that runs 10.70 or quicker any time during the event will be subject to stricter tech inspection, requiring removal of carburetor/s, valve cover and distributor.</div></div>

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY
10-05-2010, 10:28 PM
That's a good runnin '66 L79 Nova, and '70 LT1 Nova - I stand corrected on both ET's, but the spread remains the same..... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif

Dave Rifkin
10-05-2010, 10:55 PM
I'll throw another match up option for you all to consider; find similarly equipped C3 Corvettes and run them down the track. I'd also like to throw in another engine into the mix:

1968 L79 Corvette
1969 L46 Corvette
1970 LT1 Corvette

I think this would be the best match up option since you could potentially have the same car with a different engine.

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY
10-06-2010, 12:35 AM
What's an L46?

Xplantdad
10-06-2010, 12:49 AM
Thanks Rob!

Dave Rifkin
10-06-2010, 04:02 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What's an L46? </div></div>

1969 to 1970 350 cubic inch / 350 HP small block. I have a 1969 L46 Corvette that is equipped with the transistor ignition (like an LT1) and, from what I have read, the L46 has all of the internals of an LT1 minus the solid lifter cam. It would also need the aluminum high rise and 780 Holley.

kwhizz
10-06-2010, 02:38 PM
Just for what it's worth.......In reference to my 66 Nova L-79 car.....In 67 I installed a Sig Erson solid Lifter camshaft and 4:88 gears and with a Edelbrock crossram the car went a best of 11.73 and with a Z-28 single 4 barrel the car would run 12.10 all day long.........

Ken

ORIGLS6
10-06-2010, 04:53 PM
4.88 gears and 11.73 ET. Without knowing tire size (little low-end torque - short tire) I'm guessing you were hitting the traps around 7600-7800??? <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/shocked.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/worship.gif

kwhizz
10-06-2010, 05:26 PM
Geez!!! I can't even remember what I had for dinner last night......But.....I do remember that I came out of the hole at 7000 rpm.......I wouldn't have the balls to do that today.....LOL

Ken

mockingbird812
10-06-2010, 06:15 PM
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 14pt">Ooowee!</span> </span> that's haulin the mail Ken! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/3gears.gif

SmallHurst
10-06-2010, 06:27 PM
I have heard that about small torque/ high horsepower small blocks.... Wind them up till they are screaming for mercy and pull another gear!!!!

I had a friend that did something like this. Tube frame Vega, sheet metal interior, 327 bored to 331, twin Holleys on a hi-rise, full roller valve train, 5.33 gearing, going through the 1/8th mile at about 8K!!!!!!!!!!!

markjohnson
10-06-2010, 07:21 PM
Those early Hi-Po Corvette 327's were really amazing little motors. They've got a great 1.75 Rod/Stroke ratio and are strong, reliable little engines that behave like they are much larger than they really are! The famous #151 hydraulic L-79 camshaft was responsible for giving that little motor lots of mid-range torque. When I was 17 years old in high school, I purchased a '64 Chevy II SS that had it's original 6-cylinder replaced by a stock 327-300 HP motor and my father told me that we MUST put in the &quot;350 Horse&quot; camshaft (as they were commonly called). I also lucked into a factory '65 aluminum intake (327-350 HP application) and with a set headers and 2.500 Sonic Turbos (remember them?!), it made for a really fun little high school hot rod.

Salvatore
10-06-2010, 10:15 PM
I will take the LT-1 anyday. Only L79 close is the Jenkins version era with the small Holley and the aluminum intake. NEITHER are competitive in todays stock class racing in NHRA IMO. The 327/340 horse motor was pretty fast also.

olredalert
10-07-2010, 01:35 AM
----While this is off the beam a bit it does have some relevance.
----When I first took over the &quot;Red Alert&quot; helm in 1990 the car hadnt been changed substantially since Bob H had run it. He ran that 3980lbs 70 LS6 SS/DA Chevelle with 5:88s thru the quarter. Someone else can figure out the RPMs with a 33 inch tall tire, but I knew I didnt want to run the car thru the traps at anywhere near that RPM. Point being,,,A good light weight bottom end is everything. Keep the rods attached to the crank and you can twist almost any motor tight. Well built small-blocks have a built in edge (low reciprocating weight), and almost any HP small-block can make big RPM with that in mind. Big-blocks can also reap those same benefits when the reciprocating assembly is built light and the stroke is believeable.......Bill S

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY
10-07-2010, 07:00 PM
I'll stick to my instincts, and go with Sammy on this one: LT1 over the L79. All of the Day 2 mods from back in the day are impressive, but from a pure stock w/ a regular guy tune I'd put my money on the bigger cubes, solid cam, bigger carb version.

L-79 Nova
10-09-2010, 02:24 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: L-79 Nova</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think comparing ANY car that races at the PURE STOCK events is not a part of the real word, 9 second hemi's, 10 second L-88 vettes, come on. Ron.... </div></div>

My bad Rob, thanks for the clarification. Looking forward to the ET's at Stanton next year. Ron.....

Salvatore
10-09-2010, 02:41 AM
Love the L79 motor BUT will take the LT-1 anyday. How could you not?

Chevy454
10-10-2010, 04:08 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: L-79 Nova</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: L-79 Nova</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think comparing ANY car that races at the PURE STOCK events is not a part of the real word, 9 second hemi's, 10 second L-88 vettes, come on. Ron.... </div></div>

My bad Rob, thanks for the clarification. Looking forward to the ET's at Stanton next year. Ron..... </div></div>
No problem...the lines are between the two are definitely blurry sometimes, even to me!