COPO Camaro fair market value

[Don Fletcher]

Good morning everyone. I was hoping to gain a little insight on the current fair market value of copo camaros, specifically ones without the original drivetrains.

Earlier in the year, a 1969 fathom green copo/rs camaro sold at barrett jackson in scottsdale, arizona, for $150,700.00. Assuming that is an accurate gauge for copo/rs fair market value in 2010, does anybody have an educated guess about what that same car might have sold for if, for instance, the car had non-original engine, transmission and rear-end?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

[William]

Every B-J contestant has signage stating that buyers are to assume non-original drivetrain and unknown miles unless otherwise stated. I was there and have one of the info cards the owner of this car [N640809] prepared for the show. It makes no mention of drivetrain originality but does claim 46,000 miles. The car was in the main tent so it could not be closely examined. Looked nice but probably not OE drivetrain.

This car would have done better with OE drivetrain and "real" docs. It went on the block Saturday evening, prime time sellers pay a premium for.

My opinion? That's where non-Yenko L72 COPOs were. Where they are now will be determined at Scottsdale. Suddenly there are a number of them on the market.

[Xplantdad]

I think that William is talking about this car?

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b156/lotsayenkopics/zz/RScopo1.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b156/lotsayenkopics/zz/RScopo2.jpg

You won't find an oe drivetrain real doc'd 69 COPO for $151,000.

[ChevyThunder]

I was led to believe this was an original drive train car... however if I had to assume I would say no after looking at the bio on the car. You would think it would dedicate a few lines to being clear the drive train is original instead of talking about a picture/painting the car was in

[GTO_DON]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: frankk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You won't find an oe drivetrain real doc'd 69 COPO for $151,000. </div></div>Why not?

[William]

Exactly.

It all depends on the personality and motivation of the seller. Some have to sell. Some collectors are high profile; some prefer privacy. Many cars are privately transacted.

There is an automatic ZL-1 and an automatic Yenko quietly for sale here. No hurry, let's see where the market is. He has sold two cars out of his collection with a few phone calls and has a 3rd sale pending.

Patience is usually rewarded.

[Tracker1]

The low end of the restored scale.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=250726020245&amp;viewitem= &amp;sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT#ht_5707wt_1040

[69 Post Sedan]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tracker1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The low end of the restored scale.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=250726020245&amp;viewitem= &amp;sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT#ht_5707wt_1040 </div></div>

Here is the same car relisted.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet...5fCarsQ5fTrucks (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet-Camaro-Certified-Real-Deal-1969-COPO-Camaro-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3a613a1c30QQitemZ25073 9301424QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks)

[Tracker1]

Seems like a screaming deal. What's wrong with it?

[Stefano]

Here is a real one with original drivetrain offered at NO RESERVE!

No Reserve (http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector-car/1969-Chevrolet-Camaro/6596)

[weranc55]

Green with Green is a killer combo.

[resto4u]

The one that tracker mentioned on ebay has been for sale as a consignment for almost 6 months. It was once owned by clint r. in iowa. It has a cert. from camaro high performance. There must be some history that brings the value of this copo down. anyone ?? I have looked at the car, good restoration work. But i have not looked at the car in extreme details, or numbers chasing.

[talwell]

Is it just the market dragging this car down or is there some ghosts in it's closet? Does anyone know history on this car?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GTO_DON</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: frankk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You won't find an oe drivetrain real doc'd 69 COPO for $151,000. </div></div>Why not? </div></div> If I recall correctly the discussion on this site of the car in question, I believe the sale at BJ was an abnormality. The car was poorly presented, was not conclusive as to its technical merits and I believe someone stated most of the bidders had gone home when it came across the block.
69 COPO's with oe drivelines and real doc's are far and few between and finding one for sale gets even harder.I just don't believe an owner of such a car would use the BJ car as an example of value.

[ChevyThunder]

on the ebay car...

From reading the ad/auction details all they say about the motor is

&quot;This car has an L72 solid lifter, iron-block 427 cu. in., 425 horsepower Chevy V-8, an original Bob Yost-built COPO-specific 427.&quot;

and about the trans

&quot;The transmission is a Muncie M-21 4-speed&quot;

and about the rear end

&quot;a factory BE 12 bolt 4:10 Positraction rear-end &quot;

Not once do I see the seller saying this is a numbers matching born with anything, he doesn't even say the drive train is date code correct, but he does say ....

&quot;By the way, one of the things that should be there is the date-matched heater box and blower motor, one of the real tell-tales when looking for what is and what is not a real COPO Camaro.&quot;

So I wish I would have know to look for that when I bought my COPO... I hope I have the date matched heater box and blower motor !

That's why it is 115K ..

[William]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: frankk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GTO_DON</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: frankk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You won't find an oe drivetrain real doc'd 69 COPO for $151,000. </div></div>Why not? </div></div> If I recall correctly the discussion on this site of the car in question, I believe the sale at BJ was an abnormality. The car was poorly presented, was not conclusive as to its technical merits and I believe someone stated most of the bidders had gone home when it came across the block.
</div></div>

100% incorrect.

The car was prominently displayed in the main tent and went on the block during prime time, Saturday evening.

[Stefano]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChevyThunder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">why it is 115K .. </div></div>

There are numerous factors which can effect the value of a collector car such as a COPO Camaro. Collectors have become more discerning regarding what they are or are not willing to pay for in today's market.

Color, options, quality of the restoration and parts used as well as history, pedigree and provenance all play into the total package.

Price out date coded BE internals vs RPO 4.10s, or a flat bottom original air cleaner vs repro, or an original cowl hood vs repro, or how about NOS door seals and original weather stripping vs repro...the list goes on and in this case you get what you pay for... A real COPO 9561 with a nice fresh shiny paint job/resto.

You also have to be careful about who you buy from. I inspected a few COPOs which were sold and had $1,000s of dollars worth of original parts stripped off and replaced with reproductions.

[StealthBird]

Mecum Auctions : These are 'real deal' cars, not the replicas, that came across their auction block in the past 2 years.

05/2008 - $180,000 - No Sale - Lot S127 1969 Chevrolet Camaro COPO L72 427 4-speed
10/2008 - $90,000 - No Sale - Lot S238 1969 Chevrolet Camaro COPO Coupe 427/425 HP
05/2009 - $150,000 - No Sale - Lot S144 1969 Chevrolet Camaro COPO Coupe
05/2009 - $212,500 - Sold - Lot S149 1969 Chevrolet Camaro COPO Coupe 427 CI, Automatic
05/2010 - $110,000 - No Sale - Lot S178 1969 Chevrolet Camaro COPO Coupe 427/425 HP, 4-Speed
05/2010 - $100,000 - No Sale - Lot F255.1 1969 Chevrolet Camaro COPO 2-Door Hardtop 427 CI, 4-Speed

[Don Fletcher]

Great discussion. Obviously the market on musclecars ebbs and flows, like everything else, and it does seem like the market has slowed a bit on even the most elite pieces. Does anybody remember that cortez silver 1969 Camaro COPO RS car from the Reggie Jackson collection that sold on the russo steele auction? That one was reported to be #s matching and documented, and had been restored in the 90s but seemed to present very well. It sold in '06 for $139,700 and sold again in '08 for $118,250. Did any of you see this car in person? I thought that car would have brought more $$ too.

[Stefano]

That was not Craig's car his is a ZL1 COPO 9560.

The silver RS automatic Canadian COPO 9561 was proven to be a rebody, wherein the secondary VINs were cut out and welded into another body. Both of these cars have been discussed at length here on the site.

[Stefano]

There seem to be some questions and discussion as to whether or not the Fathom Green Bench Mark Classics COPO is a rebody or not?

I personally inspected this COPO for potential purchase....before, during and after the restoration. The shop which performed the majority of the work was at the very low end quality wise, of the restoration spectrum, IMO.

One of our customers had a '67 Firebird 400 convertible at that shop......which came out in worse shape than when it went in.....his words. He had to bring the car to another shop in order to get it finished.

Any way, they are no longer in business, to the best of my knowledge.

The COPO did not need to be rebodied and the VINs and trim tag were authentic. If I remember right it was radio delete too.

I was informed that another shop corrected some of the issues.

I believe that based on what is presented that this is a fair value for a real 9561 COPO Camaro.

[talwell]

Given the price of $115k and the amount of time they are sitting on this car I am sure there is still room there to negotiate a better price on it.

If you were to get the car for $100k-$110k that still leaves alot of room in the car that strip it back down to correct the issues of a poor restoration. The only issue I have with that is the color combo is what I feel the least desirable - given a nice cortez silver or a hugger orange I may be working on chipping away at them for a low price to get it.

One thing to note however is that in Jerry's report he did say that the sheet metal work was looking good - I guess the quality could have been lost in the final details.