Kevin Hand Collector Car Collection at Auction

[Stefano]

Kevin Hand has decided to sell some of the prominent cars in his collection at the Russo and Steele Auction this coming January 19-23, in Scottsdale Arizona.

Kevin is a long time sYc member and is known for collecting and restoring some of the best Muscle cars and Super Cars available anywhere.

These cars will be offered at NO RESERVE! No games....the high bidder/closing hammer gets the car.

Contact John Bemiss in order to get your bidders pass/credentials.

This is a brief description of the vehicles to be auctioned.


1970 Plymouth Cuda Convertible, Lemon Twist Yellow, 440-6 pack 4 speed. One of Seventeen 440-6 packs made, there is not another cuda Conv't in existence with this color and trim combination and a 4 speed, possibly 1 of 1 made. This car was treated to a complete no expense spared rotisserie restoration. This car comes with complete Galen Govier physical inspection and decoding of Trim Tag. This car was inspected twice by Galen. Special attention was given to every detail of this car down to the dated coded inflatable spare tire and wheel. This car has been kept in a climate controlled environment since completion.

1967 Shelby GT 500 sold new in Bristol Tennessee and obtains 90% of it's original sheet metal. A very solid real deal "SHELBY" with vintags and numbers in place. It has all of the original interior, steering wheel , roll cage, and rallye pack, and original Kelsey Hayes wheels. This car currently has a 427 Carroll Shelby Aluminum block set up as the original 428 engine was set up with TWIN 4 Barrel carb's. this car has a special added feature which is a HONE A DRIVE added to the transmission which is set up so that anyone can drive this car and convert from 4.10 gearing to 2.70 gearing for highway driving should anyone want to take a drive. This lightweight aluminum 427 is built to SHOW or Drive. Although it has never seen much road time as you can tell. A great chance to own a FULL DOCUMENTED American Icon.

1972 Plymouth Roadrunner GTX, 440-4speed Air Grabber. This car was inspected and decoded by Galen Govier and was quoted as being one of the "Highest Optioned" Muscle cars built in the Plymouth Line up. This car has the VER RARE FACTORY SUNROOF, POWER WINDOWS, AND A VERY RARE CASSETTE RECORDER WITH DICTAPHONE. The car was driven as a professional promotion car by a member of the Detroit Red Wings hockey team. It Underwent a professional no expense spared rotisserie restoration.It comes fully documented and has a copy of the Window sticker.

1969 "GOLD" Yenko Camaro, 1 of 10 built, 1 of 4 in existence, 1 of 2 with White Stripes. This car is fully documented with dealer order and sales data and by far the most rare and hardest to obtain Yenko's to own. It just completed a "No expense spared restoration. A factory built COPO car comes with a 427/425 Horsepower engine, 4 speed, 410 rear gear and was built by Don Yenko Chevrolet to run on the dragstrip. This was a factory built COPO 427, Central Office Production Order . This car still has the original "BE" rearend. I have owned every color 1969 Yenko Camaro there is to own and this one by far and away is in a league of its own. You can find any other color Yenko, try and find a GOLD one, next to Impossible.

2002 Dodge Viper GTS #36 of the top 50 made. The "Finally" edition was a limited production run in 2002 in which 361 2002 GTS's were made. This particular year was the last year in which the V-10 Vipers were built with the SUPER STRONG low end engine with the Super Strong Forged Crankshaft . This particular year is the year that is the most sought after year because of the ENGINE STRENGTH & DURABILITY. This car was bought New at hendrick Chevrolet and has the original window sticker. This car is being SOLD with the Original MSO, Manufacturers Certificate of Origin. This car has a very high end CORSA EXHAUST system installed, and if the NEW owner will pay shipping , the original exhaust is in North Carolina. This car has only 2800 pampered miles and has never seen rain and been kept in a climate controlled environment it's entire life.

You can email me at [email protected] for more info or call 630-377-1222.

[njsteve]

Any photos available? They aren't listed on the Russo and Steele site yet.

[Stefano]

Pics soon, but they are listed on the Russo and Steele site towards the end/last couple of pages.

[Stefano]

Spent some time at the Pavilions yesterday along with a bunch of sYc members and friends, we had the Gold Yenko, Yellow 6 pack Cuda rag top and a Killer '67 Shelby GT 500.

The two most often asked questions:

1) Are they real?

2) Are the Kevin Hand cars really selling at no reserve?

[al8apex]

I saw the GT500 yesterday and it was number 2 on "our" list of nicest cars there last night

Number 1 was the 63 split window Corvette ZR-1

Number 3 was the original paint 69 Boss 429

[bashton]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stefano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Spent some time at the Pavilions yesterday along with a bunch of sYc members and friends, we had the Gold Yenko, Yellow 6 pack Cuda rag top and a Killer '67 Shelby GT 500.

The two most often asked questions:

1) Are they real?

2) Are the Kevin Hand cars really selling at no reserve?

</div></div>

Be careful with my convertible!

Bashton
MCACN Managing Member

[enio45]

The cars looked killer yesterday at the Pavillions...

Colins Shelby was there as well - had my eye....stunning car.

Good seeing everyone yesterday!

[mockingbird812]

Eddie in a <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/shocked.gif <span style="font-style: italic"> <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 26pt">FORD!!!!!</span></span></span> <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/shocked.gif

[JTH74]

What did the Gold Yenko bring at auction?

[Steve Shauger]

175K

[Stefano]

The original announcement was made right here. Nothing changed prior to the hammer, other than Kevin decided to be there on the block with his cars.

<span style="font-weight: bold">&quot;Kevin Hand has decided to sell some of the prominent cars in his collection at the Russo and Steele Auction this coming January 19-23, in Scottsdale Arizona.

Kevin is a long time sYc member and is known for collecting and restoring some of the best Muscle cars and Super Cars available anywhere.

These cars will be offered at NO RESERVE! No games....the high bidder/closing hammer gets the car.

Contact John Bemiss in order to get your bidders pass/credentials.&quot;</span>

[Mr Yenko]

Heard that you GUYS and GALS had a GREAT time! GOOD LUCK to the new owner of what i use to call her.. &quot;GOLDIE HAWN&quot;
The &quot;MOF&quot;

[camaromb]

I don't understand how an educated seller such as Kevin could sell his cars at Russo Steele, typically a reserve auction, with no reserve? In this spotty market how could a seller risk so much without any protection? Someone sure bought a great car for far less than cost. Something doesn't add up, just like the selling price!! Who ended up with the car???

[mc25t190]

The buyer was a customer of Nickey Chicago's by the last name of Carlson.&quot;It is clearly evident in the auction world of muscle cars that the &quot;HOUSE&quot;, their circle of a few select dealers, and the dealers customers outweigh the seller. When the gavel drops on a car as quickly as that one did, you know something is up. The auction in this case went with the dealer and his customer. In this case my trust was misplaced and the almighty dollar took over, thats my fault, thats ok, I can sleep at night. When you do the right thing, you expect others to do the right thing. You win some and lose some, in the end, it's the chance you take. I attend auction's twice a week, I know them quite well. I have never seen such a joke, there was a backup in place but that mysteriously changed the minute the GOLD car hit the stage, oh well you live and learn, go Barrett Jackson! &quot; I have to ask why was there a post about something changing when no one even posted about something changing, watch the tape and be the judge for yourself.

[Charley Lillard]

Where do I start...You are delusional. Your actions at the auction were affected by alcohol as evidenced by you throwing beer on people in the stands during the auction. Yes I read where Lopata said something to the effect that we over here were just sore that we paid 155K for the Berger COPO but missed out on your Gold Yenko for 175K. Could he be more wrong ? That was my Berger RS COPO so I guess I didn't miss out on it. The buyer of the Berger RS COPO also bought your Yenko so MR Lopata only missed it by a mile. You say you would have done better at Barrett-Jackson. Barrett-Jackson sold two COPO Camaro's for right about 100K so are you sure you would have done better over there ? COPO Camaro's aren't bringing what they used to. There were only two bidders at the end on my COPO and the guy that didn't win it had not even looked at it up close but he also has a double COPO and said he thought that was a good price. You and I are both lucky to have the buyer that we had and his name isn't Carlson. And &quot;Carlson&quot; does not need any help buying cars. Contrary to what you, Mr Lopata and a couple others think, Olympic gold is not a first choice for someone that is looking to buy a Yenko and I would bet money that if your car had been blue or orange it would have brought more money. A good auctioneer knows when they are down to the only real money and drops the hammer. I also wish I had gotten more money but the money wasn't there and I don't think it was at Barrett-Jackson either. You can try to act like you were scammed but you weren't. The car was heavily advertised so everyone knew it would be there for sale yet they weren't bidding. So was my car but they weren't bidding. Your car was for sale just like mine at &quot;No Reserve&quot; Both our cars sold at &quot;No Reserve&quot; Blaming others is looking in the wrong direction.

[Stefano]

Conspiracy theorists unite! Pass out the tin hats.

[mc25t190]

You have no idea and are totally clueless, Godfather? Your opinion is only yours,just like your opionion on Yenko Nova's, especially when you don't own one and pass judgement on others that do, certainly not the Gospel. Birds of a feather flock together!

[kwhizz]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mc25t190</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have no idea and are totally clueless, Godfather? Your opinion is only yours,just like your opionion on Yenko Nova's, especially when you don't own one and pass judgement on others that do, certainly not the Gospel. Birds of a feather flock together! </div></div>


Ahhhhhh!!!!........I think Charley has a pretty good handle on what's going on out there......Take your emotions out of the picture and reread Charley's post.......Seems pretty clear to me....

[sYc]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mc25t190</div><div class="ubbcode-body">....I attend auction's twice a week, I know them quite well.... </div></div>

Kevin; That makes your statements, and actions, look even more foolish.

And since when did ownership become a prerequisite for knowledge? There are owners of rare cars who know little about their cars while there are non-owners (several on here) who are very knowledgeable about cars they do not own.

[Salvatore]

Tom, very well put! Amen to that.

[mc25t190]

TOM, about as Foolish as you looked when you said Mark Hassett's 1969 Monaco Orange Yenko Chevelle was a rebody, about as foolish as you look now knowing that your Yenko Nova got slammed too. For those that are sucked into this protecting each other stuff, simple minds, I expected all of the above especially from the close net group protecting each other! I fully expect Tom to delete this thread or be instucted to. For the real deal [link removed], chew on that Tom Clary. As you can see I post at both real often, right?

[Stefano]

Kevin,

If you have something truthful, factual and documentable regarding this situation, which you feel needs to be discussed on a public forum, then by all means share that info here.

There are thousands of active members, who might like to learn more about this situation.

The cars and the way in which they were to be auctioned, along with your own descriptions were advertised right here, first.

I can understand that you were not happy with the results of the GOLD Yenko, however, the Auction did their very best. In light of what other, non original engine COPOs, which actually sold to new owners fetched, that weekend, your GOLD 9561, fell right in line.

You had a much higher offer, prior to consigning the Yenko with R&amp;S from one of our very good customers, which you turned down, as you said that you were willing to take your chances on the Yenko doing better.

The fact that you once were a Car Dealer, and have worked in the retail environment for many years, as well as frequent car auctions &quot;twice a week&quot;, provides you a bit more experience than the average auction seller/ buyer.

[mc25t190]

I never said I had a much higher offer and would take my chances?

[Stefano]

That is exactly one of my points as you try and spin this situation. You never told anyone that I had a higher offer, which you had turned down.

I don't need to drag that particular individual into this. So at this point I say it happened and you say that it didn't.

Are you saying that you did not understand the consignment agreements which you signed with R&amp;S and did not know what NO RESERVE meant?

There was absolutely no agreement with me or R&amp;S to protect any of your cars, prior to the auction.

In fact, it was quite the contrary. I told the auction and others that I would not bid on any of your cars and I didn't

I even helped some members and customers get bidders credentials in order to potentially bid on your cars.

Guess what.....one of them was high bidder and bought one of your cars??

The fact that, in a drunk' in stuper you decided to try and protect your car to no avail, at the last minute, and that you did not have the necessary line of credit in order to facilitate buying your own car back .....is certainly no ones fault but your own.

Colin is one of most knowledgeable Shelby Enthusiasts, Collectors and dealers I know. He is also a friend. I have no issues referring potential customers to him. I guess I held a gun to your head in order to force you to buy that car too?

[sYc]

Kevin, first of the all, this thread will be allowed to run its course, so everyone who has heard about the bizarre happenings at the auction can form their own opinions of who did what to who.

Second of all, no, you do not post much on here, when you do, usually it is to pimp one of your cars, telling us how much better it is then all of the similar cars out there. Yes, you have owned some cool cars, but, and I know this is not how you view things, owning rare cars does not make you, or any of us, any more special then the next guy.


In closing, I am not for sure what Mark's Chevelle, or my Nova, have to do with this thread, other then to try and steer the focus away from the facts. Face it, you yourself admitted it was your decision to sell your cars at NO RESERVE, a risky move anytime, but even more so in today’s economy, so why blame others? I realize in today’s world blaming others for one’s failures is common place, but I for one am tired of that mentality.

Be an adult about this, admit selling at no reserve may have been a poor decision on your part, and move on.

[kwhizz]

Not being involved or caring about what went on at the Auction.......The Facts seem to be that your car or cars were consigned to the Auction at No Reserve.......
Did you expect to receive some exceptions to the terms of the contract to guarantee that your cars would have a cushion around them to really not be sold at No Reserve???
Seems to me that you were the one who put yourself in that position ........

[iluv69s]

Don´t I remember one of the no-reserve auction houses guaranteeing a minimum total sale price to the consignor for a collection of muscle cars? Maybe it was the collection that included the blue 69 RS ZL1 ??

I don´t have any sides here as it does not matter to me...but it seems I do remember that this kind of agreement has happened...whether it is behind the scenes or on the consignment contract I do not know...correct me if my memory fails me...

it would not be the first time that has happened..(my memory)

[Stefano]

What may or may not have happened at other auctions, different venues several years ago does not pertain to what we are discussing.

Kevin entered into a very straight forward arangement to sell his cars at NO Reserve.

There were NO Guarantees offered by anyone, from my company and/or the Auction. It was a simple and straight up consignment deal to auction the cars at No Reserve, which is the way they were promoted and advertised.

If you stand in front of your NO Resreve car, and tell interested parties that no one is going to steal my car and if it doesn't bring at least $350,000.00, I'm taking it home.....you might tend to have interested bidders and potential buyers, who are not willing to pay that amount or more loose total interest and move on to the next car.

I had several of my own cars running at no reserve and made certain that I got as many interested bidders to know that I wasn't taking my cars home with me!

[ssl78396]

And that would be who's collection?

[66 L78 ragtop]

&quot;When the gavel drops on a car as quickly as that one did, you know something is up.&quot;

Kevin feels that the gavel dropped prematurely on his car.

Did it or did it not?

If it can be objectively determined that it did, then Kevin has a legitimate gripe. If it did not, then its all a misunderstanding. If it can't be proven either way, then the discussion is moot.

I hate to say it but, everything else on this thread seems to be a pointless tit for tat.

[Lynn]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 66 L78 ragtop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">&quot;When the gavel drops on a car as quickly I hate to say it but, everything else on this thread seems to be a pointless tit for tat. </div></div>

Well said. Diametrically opposed opinions that will never be reconciled. Bunch of side issues that have no bearing on the differences of opinion.

BTW, what is tat? Where do you get it? How do you trade it for that other thing? Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Tracker1]

http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19960729
<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif

[Stefano]

I think the points are extremely relevant or I wouldn't have made them.

Some cars spend more time and some cars spend less time on the block. The decision from a collector/enthusiast seeking to purchase a specific car is not usually made at the point, while it is running across the block.

That is usually determined before hand. What the block usually helps determine is how much someone is really willing to pay and in the case of &quot;with a reserve&quot;, the point at what someone is willing to accept in order to sell a particular car at that particular time.

There is no guaranteed block/gavel time. The point is, that once the bidding stopped, as in, there were NO other bidders and the three count was made.....no one else bid.

The auctioneers know who is bidding and if there are multiple bidders. Generally they can only work true bidders in a no reserve situation.

Many of Kevin's other cars spent a bit more time across the block because they had more individuals bidding on them.

If and when an auction runs a bid on behalf of the seller in order to help a particular vehicle get to a reserve.....it generally takes more time and can appear that there are more bidders than there actually are.



The story relayed by Kevin to his mouth piece on another site never mentioned anything about the time the car spent on the block. The main issue presented was protecting this particular car, from a low selling price. I know that when looking to lay blame some tend to grasp at multiple straws.

[Stefano]

Here is the banter from another site.

&quot;I Here's the story anyone including members of the SYC can correct me if I'm wrong Mr. Hand consigned (using this term loosely) his cars to sell at NO RESERVE at RS.The consignor NC assured Mr. Hand his cars were covered up to what Mr. Hand wanted to get.If they didn't meet Kevins number they were to be purchased back.The understanding was between Kevin ,NC and RS the auctioneer.Since there is NO legal paperwork to let a consignor buy their car back Mr. CC a well known Midwest car dealer was put in place to cover the bid.When the car reached $175 Mr. CC bailed which in turn led a customer of the consignor NC to purchase the car.
When Mr Hand confronted the consignor NC Mr. SB he blamed CC the Midwest dealer for dropping the ball.Mr. CC the midwest dealer claimed noone informed him of what the high buy back number was to be.Mr Hand furious over what he percieved as getting rearended proceded to bathe the Midwest dealer CC in an expensive beer to which then as Mr Hand was leaving the facility was jumped or restrained by 2 of the Midwest dealers friends.
So there you have it.Correct anything you conceive to be incorrect.

P.S. This was relayed to me .I in no way was on or near the premisis when this incident occured but it didn't take a psychic to see this one coming.&quot;

For the record, these libelous statments are not true.

[iluv69s]

Stefano, with all due respect, I do believe that the fact that these 'deals' protecting the seller at 'no reserve' auctions are relevant if they do in fact exist...especially if it is a verbal agreement and not written in any contract.

Obviously, you know more than me about what happened at the auction. But apparently, there seems to be some misunderstanding whether there was some kind of a verbal agreement made to protect Kevin.

Regardless if anyone feels it is relevant, I am asking the question. Has this type of thing happened in prior auctions?..and if so, was it ever done by a handshake or was it written in the contract?

If this has <span style="font-weight: bold">never</span> happened in prior auctions, it would go a long way for me to believe that Kevin may be 'crying' over a bad business decision..

And I also remember somone here telling how thier car stalled at a certain price before reaching the reserve, and then the auction company agreed to lower the seller's comission, and upon lifting the reserve, the car took off and the selling price soared way above the reserve price. I have seen many times when the price stalled and the auctioneer talked the car up again and the price continued to climb. Obviously different circumstances and auctions..but when a precedent has been set, it makes the possibility of this happening more believable.

I think we all deserve to know the answers to these questions so we can be better informed if we decide to buy or sell our cars at auction some day..it just seems odd to me that the auction company did not allow the normal time on the block for this car..(assuming this is what happened)or even give some extra time...what was there to lose?? was the high bidder going to back out if the auctioneer hyped the car for another minute before dropping the gavel??

once again, I do not know kevin or am I trying to defend him. And I do not have a bone to pick with anyone regarding this..I am just trying to find as much info (truth) as possible ..

just my humble opinion... thanks, max

[Stefano]

An auction company is a business and technically they can make deals with both buyers and sellers of vehicles, if they are within the laws of the land.

Every auction is different, as are the potential varying circumstances.

The commissions charged to the seller are generally lower with no reserve, since the the vehicle is going to sell with 100% certainty.

Auctions do not generally negotiate their commissions on a no reserve deal, across the block, since there is no need to.

Auctions do have the option to try and negotiate a sale across the block, when a vehicle does have a reserve.

It would be a prudent business practice to have a contract spelling out all the details of any such significant transaction.

It is none of my business to discuss or speculate on other people's private deals and or contacts, especially on a public forum.

All of the details and guidelines are spelled out in the auction contracts.

Many Auctions are businesses which generate $10,000,000.00s of dollars in Sales and do not operate without contracts.

In the case of R&amp;S Arizona 2011, there is no contractual provision for allowing protection of a no reserve vehicle. The way to achieve protection through the auction is by using a reserve.

Many members ran their cars at this acuction venue, most used a the reserve method. Some sold their cars while others did not.

I ran some of my cars both ways. When we got close to the reserve on the reserved cars we took it off and sold them. When we were not close we kept the reserve on.

[Stefano]

Found in Cyber Space.

Re: Listen Closely
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2011, 03:55:38 pm »
&quot;I knew what was coming when I made the post. You see that everytime someone posts on the site that all off the clan chip in to try to protect and cover up the obvious. Charlie Lillard either did not know the details or he is DELUSIONAL, forget about the prices of the cars. SB got CC of all people to help me out. CC sold me a 67 Shelby GT500 in 2004 that did not have the original fenders on the car, the car had been wrecked and the Shelby serial numbers were gone, then told me he had cancer , couldn't sleep at night, but , wouldn't buy the car back. Yes , this is the guy who was on the SHELBY board at the time that lied endlessly about the car. When confronted you should have heard the barrage of lies. I later found CC had quite a few upset customers. Byt the way , guess who referrred me to him, that's right SB. Now this guy and SB are suppose to help me. You had to be standing by SB when this all happened and he tried to make it seem as though a mistake had been made, why his post the following morning about something changing, what change???
CL and TC are so simple minded and full of it when they do not know the details or the screwing I had taken before by CC . Thanks for the help, then tell me its my fault. It's a good thing I could afford the situation. I expected there to be a collusion amongst the members that made posts to support SB . If they only knew, and for Tom C. to point out that someone is foolish, he is the FOOL!They are all credible ,right?? I expected this from the clan, I wish they were their, they would have taken a beer bath too! Do your homework Tom before you jump in the band wagon! &quot;

[Fast67VelleN2O]

I don't care what kind of hand shake or verbal deal you have with someone prior to your car going across the auction block. If it is going through at NO RESERVE, you should expect that something may happen where someone would actually win it at less than what you would like to get it for.

Why run it at NO RESERVE if you want a minimum amout for the car? The only person at fault here is the SELLER. No one else.

[budnate]

who is SB and CC ???

[70 Forest Green Zee]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fast67VelleN2O</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't care what kind of hand shake or verbal deal you have with someone prior to your car going across the auction block. If it is going through at NO RESERVE, you should expect that something may happen where someone would actually win it at less than what you would like to get it for.

Why run it at NO RESERVE if you want a minimum amout for the car? The only person at fault here is the SELLER. No one else. </div></div>

I agree with this 100% If the seller had a set minimum price he wanted for this car, he should have run it with a reserve plain and simple. He chose not to and got less than he expected....sorry but it's the sellers own fault and he has no reason to be complaining here, it's his own fault!!!

I ran my 1970 Z28 through the Mecum auction last Sept in St Charles with a reserve. It didn't make reserve so I took the car home, plain and simple. Personally, I don't understand why anyone would run a car at auction without a reserve...the reserve is there to protect you the seller and the commission is not that much more at Mecum with a reserve 6% vs. 4%. Just my humble opinion.

[iluv69s]

Stefano...I appreciate your response..the fact that you did not answer my specific question asking if private verbal/handshake deals are ever made between auctioneers and sellers ín order to protect the sellers speaks for itself.

I am 98% certain that I remember a thread regarding this. I do not know what the big secret is now. In my last thread, I asked if this ever happens..not any specific dealings with any specific auction company or persons. Unfortunatly, I am terrible at searching these forums or I would search and copy the post where one of the posters on this thread stated that a deal had been made between auctioneer and seller as to guaranteeing a minimum total sale price protecting the seller of the blue RS ZL-1. (If I am misquoting You, I apologize)
By not answering my question it only leaves doubt in my mind and sure as heck makes me feel like some shenanigans may occur during some these auctions.After the RG fiasco with the ZL-1 and hearing about this, I sure as heck will steer clear of the whole auction venue in the future....

And Matt...with all due respect, as far as your quote....I don't care what kind of hand shake or verbal deal you have¨

Regardless if at an auction or anywhere else in life...When did a man´s word stop meaning anything?? My word is my character..I stand by it. Am I the only one here that disagrees with this statement??

If Kevin had a verbal agreement with the auction company and it was not witheld, I think he has every right to be very upset.
Verbal agreements are binding contracts in a court of law.

again, jmhi Max

[Fast67VelleN2O]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: iluv69s</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
And Matt...with all due respect, as far as your quote....I don't care what kind of hand shake or verbal deal you have¨

Regardless if at an auction or anywhere else in life...When did a man´s word stop meaning anything?? My word is my character..I stand by it. Am I the only one here that disagrees with this statement??

If Kevin had a verbal agreement with the auction company and it was not witheld, I think he has every right to be very upset.
Verbal agreements are binding contracts in a court of law.

again, jmhi Max </div></div>

Sad to say but in this day in age this isn't the case anymore. People don't take &quot;their word&quot; seriously. I find it hard these days to find anyone that sticks to their word.

-Matt

[Stefano]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: iluv69s</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Stefano...I appreciate your response..the fact that you did not answer my specific question asking if private verbal/handshake deals are ever made between auctioneers and sellers ín order to protect the sellers speaks for itself.

</div></div>

I thought I did answer that question prior?

&quot;There was absolutely no agreement with me or R&amp;S to protect any of your cars, prior to the auction.&quot;

I have a series of texts and emails regarding this situation and not once is there a discussion of a guarantee or protection. We did however discuss estimated expectations for the collection.

I am not a lawyer and don't want to pretend to be one.

I personally do not recall EVER consigning a car to a collector car auction, on just a handshake and without a written contract, nor have I ever seen a reason not to have one? They are designed to protect both buyers and sellers from any such issues and clearly spell out the terms, between all of the parties involved.

The contracts have certainly changed over time, but all I have seen have the standard legal clauses in which the only valid contract is that which is in writing and any verbal agreements are null and void, unless put in writing.

R&amp;S would not accept a no reserve vehicle with a buy back option. There was no deal verbal or written to protect any of Kevin's cars with the auction.

If and when a &quot;reserve&quot; deal is changed on the block a new contract is signed right then and there.

&quot;Regardless if at an auction or anywhere else in life...When did a man´s word stop meaning anything?? My word is my character..I stand by it. Am I the only one here that disagrees with this statement??&quot;

We stand by our word, always have and always will!

Our family has had a dealer licence for over 30 years, we have baught, built, restored and sold more than just a few cars.

[Stefano]

&quot;Hit me and I'll sue. Always the same answer.Oh by the way I see you sent your boy over here to print off the whole thread don't forget I did the same and throwing around the alcohol/drunk inuendos don't help you much.&quot;

Has anyone threatened anyone else with legal action at this point. I know that I haven't?

[sYc]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 70 Forest Green Zee</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fast67VelleN2O</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't care what kind of hand shake or verbal deal you have with someone prior to your car going across the auction block. If it is going through at NO RESERVE, you should expect that something may happen where someone would actually win it at less than what you would like to get it for.

Why run it at NO RESERVE if you want a minimum amout for the car? The only person at fault here is the SELLER. No one else. </div></div>

I agree with this 100% If the seller had a set minimum price he wanted for this car, he should have run it with a reserve plain and simple. He chose not to and got less than he expected....sorry but it's the sellers own fault and he has no reason to be complaining here, it's his own fault!!!


</div></div>

Pretty much sums it up.

[tom406]

I think there's a definite place for &quot;no reserve&quot; at the auctions. No reserve is a higher risk but potentially high reward option. Auctions are not like the car corral at a swap meet. There's a living, breathing aspect to them that is unique. &quot;No reserve&quot; tells buyers that the car is GOING TO SELL and it COULD BE YOU. On a car such as this, a seller would hope that a veritable CROWD of people will bid it up intially and that eventually, 2 or 3 people with big checkbooks, healthy egos, and a perhaps a couple of gin and tonics will feel the NEED to own that car. The energy in the room, as much as the car itself, often drives the notably big numbers.
If there 5 cars in a row that don't hit their reserve, you can FEEL the energy leave the room. You can see the people check their phones and head to the bar.
I think &quot;no reserve&quot; is still a very effective strategy for larger, quality collections being thinned or liquidated. It gets the people there, interested, and the energy stays up. Plus you have to look at your total take, and compare it to your expectations. Most dealers I know that bring cars to auction regularly bring a half dozen. One or two (often unexpectedly) ring the bell, one or two take it in the chin, and the rest do OK. They average out. If you obsess about the ones that went &quot;cheap&quot;, its not the venue or strategy for you. There will ALWAYS be a similar but markedly inferior car to yours that will bring more money, often at the same auction. Why? Because its an auction, and thats how it goes. If you just have one car, you don't have the luxury of averaging out, you might just be left crying in your beer. Or throwing it, if thats how you roll.
If there wasn't a benefit to running no reserve, there wouldn't be talk about secret backdoor deals. Deals that offer the perks of &quot;no reserve&quot; but eliminate the risk. But unless you ran a major bank during the last 10 years, you really can't have it both ways, can you?

JMO
TOM

[iluv69s]

Stefano, I appreciate your response and I realize that You in fact did state that there was not any deal made to protect THIS car. But I have also read the other side of the story that seems to state there was in-fact a deal made. That is why I asked if these type of deals are EVER made at other auctions that You are aware of, which I do not recall seeing a response. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Maybe somone can find the thread on the blue RS ZL-1. I am curios if the auctioneers agreement to protect the sellers total sale price was a written agreement or just a verbal agreement. Based on what You are asying, it must have been a written agreement, AND IF SO, I THINK THAT SHOULD BE TOLD TO ALL POTENTIAL BUYERS BEFORE WASTING THIER TIME ON A NO-RESERVE AUCTION THAT IS NOT REALLY A NO-RESERVE AUCTION.


I want to make this perfectly clear. Of all the car dealers that I have run across, be it on the internet or in person or publications, based on everything I have seen and heard, You are one of, if not THE most respected muscle/classic car dealers that I have run across. Like Matt said, in this day and age, it is difficult to find someone that puts thier word before the mighty dollar.

Believe me, I am apalled that these type of buy back deals are (possibly) made between sellers and the auction companies. That is the reason I was trying to bring them to light, if in-fact they do exist. I do not think it is fair to someone who spends thier time and money to travel to a no-reserve auction only to see the car of thier dreams bought back by the owner or an agent of him or the auction company.

This is not about defending anyone or picking sides for me..

Obviuosly Kevin made a big mistake..whether it was to place his car in a no-reserve auction or whether it was trusting someones elses word without a written contract, éither way it was HIS mistake. At this point it is a matter of he said-she said.




And Tom C, I believe Kevin was responding to another members post asking the question why he put the car on a no-reserve auction..at which time he explained his side of the story. Who better to respond than Kevin himself? Although I tend to believe Stefano because of everything I have known about him over the years, It is obvious that Kevin feels that there may have been some kind of deal made. Is it possible that Stefano was not aware of such deal???...

And I totally agree with Tom406 on the no-reserve aspect..many decisions have been made/changed as to the amount someone is willing to pay for a car at the moment the car is on the block. Especially when they know that just one more bid may take the car of thier dreams home. Believe me, when the camera at the BJ auction arrives in front of a potential buyer, especially if he is with his wife/girlfriend/family, at times ego takes over and some cars sell for riduculous money...everyone wants to be a TV star. I have personally attended auctions and ended up bidding more than I originally told myself I was going to bid at the moment the item was on the block.I am sure this happens VERY often.

This thread has now spun out of control and We are now officially kicking a dead horse !!!


max

[Fast67VelleN2O]

What about the next time a &quot;Kevin Hand&quot; car goes through an auction at no reserve? It would be hard to bid on one once this has all come to light. Who is gonna bid when they know there will almost certainly be a shill bidder against them?

[Charley Lillard]

The blue RS ZL1 was in a collection that was sold at reserve.

[iluv69s]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fast67VelleN2O</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What about the next time a &quot;Kevin Hand&quot; car goes through an auction at no reserve? It would be hard to bid on one once this has all come to light. Who is gonna bid when they know there will almost certainly be a shill bidder against them? </div></div>

my point exactly..and unfortunately I believe this happens all the time.....

[iluv69s]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The blue RS ZL1 was in a collection that was sold at reserve. </div></div>

Wow, I guess my memory is failing me. I remember everyone being very surprised by the low outcome of that auction..and also the low price of the yellow Zl-1...Thanks for clarifying that Charlie..I stand corrected...but do I not recall that there was some deal made for the auction company guaranteeing a minimum total for the collection?? Or am I thinking of the wrong thread?? At this point it does not really matter...

[Stefano]

I feel like I keep repeating myself. The auctions I have recently worked with as well as currently work with will not accept a No Reserve consignment, from a customer, with a buy back deal.

Even at the auctions with ALL no reserve cars, people will find ways to buy their owns cars back, however they are usually subject to, buyer and sellers commission, as well as potential state sales tax and the money has to be put out for the purchase before any funds are released back to the seller, which is usually 30 days.

[iluv69s]

Sorry for the (my)confusion Stefano..and thanks for clearing that up....

[Xplantdad]

Max...here's some reading:

http://www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_detail.cfm?LOT_ID=SC0508-65954&amp;entryRow=93

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthrea...true#Post361670 (http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&amp;Number=361670&amp;Searchpa ge=1&amp;Main=34109&amp;Words=rs_UBBT_PHRASE_zl1&amp;Search=tr ue#Post361670)


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&amp;Number=312075&amp;page=1

[rubbinisracing]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fast67VelleN2O</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What about the next time a &quot;Kevin Hand&quot; car goes through an auction at no reserve? It would be hard to bid on one once this has all come to light. Who is gonna bid when they know there will almost certainly be a shill bidder against them? </div></div>

The same people who bid on cars that haven't met reserve.

We are all big boys and girls. If you don't like the risk, don't take it. If the price is too high or you don't think things are above board, don't bid. This is not an auction problem, it's a consignor problem. You can't prevent people from shill bidding, cutting side deals, misrepresenting the condition or authenticity of a car. You either accept it or choose not to participate. Unfortunately some lessons are expensive, take from it what you can.

[Charley Lillard]

Just bid up to what you are willing to pay.

[kwhizz]

In the End.......I would hope that No Reserve actually means &quot;No Reserve&quot;..........Just the Facts Mam, Just the Facts..

[resto4u]

There were two mistakes made. Don't let another car dealer consign your car at an auction. There is no benefit, it will not sell for more. As a previous car dealer, he should have known better. Always sell as a reserve to protect, unless six figures is pocket change to you. You can always drop the reserve on the block if you want. Roger

[442w30]

Oy vey!

Remind me to never buy a car from you guys. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif

[x Baldwin Motion]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: budnate</div><div class="ubbcode-body">who is SB and CC ??? </div></div>
http://www.uglymales.com/wc/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/steve-buscemi-ugly.jpghttp://www.myclassiclyrics.com/artist_biographies/images/Charlie_Chaplin_Biography.jpg

sorry, I had to lighten this up a little.

[black69]

Well I got sucked into this thread and came away with the thought something odd must have gone on at that auction. I don't think the color was that 'different' to justify a big price delta over an orange or blue one. A gold yenko camaro or nova or chevelle are all cool in that color. period. Anything more that a 10% price difference to a 'blue' is about all I would ever beleive. I would take it over phantom green myself.

I would not ever take a car to russo and steel because where o where all the 'in the know' guys telling the auction house, this thing should sell higher? did they not know this thing should go higher and spend more time working it (shouldn't the consigner be tugging on the houses arm to work this more? this price for a yenko is too low? I would be screaming if it was my car, don't drop that gavel!) Either they are totally uniformed (I thus would not want them gaveling for my car, unless in a reserve auction) or something fishy happened OR the market for yenkos has tanked. Its one of those 3 things in my opinion.

I would only go to mecum after what I see happened here.

[Stefano]

I understand your opinions and perspective. It's really difficult to discern exactly what happens at an auction when you are actually there and much more so when you are not. However, your conclusions are not fact. They are simply your opinions.

This thread started as a promotion for a member's cars which were going to be auctioned in Arizona at R&amp;S at &quot; No Reserve&quot;.

&quot;No Reserve&quot; will always be a major risk to a seller and the least level of risk to an auction. I assumed that risk for some of my own cars at that auction, while I chose to go with a reserve on some of the others. The auction did work with me on my reserve cars and we got them sold across the block. ( special deal ticket signed on the block )

There are numerous reasons why some consignors may or may not decide to go no reserve. The option with R&amp;S, as well as others is always up to the consignor.

So, if and when someone may be looking to turn a substantial collection or even a single car into cash, quickly, selling at No reserve is one very risky option.

Nickey Chicago, Inc. and Russo and Steele have been unjustly accused of maliciously manipulating the auction, by Kevin and his mouth piece. This is simply not true and the opposite of what actually did happen.

Now, if KH had simply stated that he was not happy with the out come or the level of service which was provide, and that in the future would take his business elsewhere, that would have been very different.

I have answered all the questions put forth, to the best of my ability, in order to clear my good name.

While this is a hobby to many it is my business and the way I provide for my family.

Kevin,IMO this would be a good time to put egos aside and for you to make a public apology.

[kwhizz]

Anyone who has met, has dealings with, or done business with Stefano knows that his character and business practices are above reproach......
So.....A person who contractually signs his car to sell at No Reserve at Auction has no one to blame but themselves.......Pretty easy to throw stones and dump beer, not so easy to accept &quot;Responsibility&quot;...........Nuff Said!!

[70 Forest Green Zee]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kwhizz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Anyone who has met, has dealings with, or done business with Stefano knows that his character and business practices are above reproach......
So.....A person who contractually signs his car to sell at No Reserve at Auction has no one to blame but themselves.......Pretty easy to throw stones and dump beer, not so easy to accept &quot;Responsibility&quot;...........Nuff Said!! </div></div>

I totally agree with Ken....anyone who knows Steve Bimby knows that he a man of integrity and a man of his word. I feel very fortunate to know Steve personally and I wouldn't hesitate for one minute to buy a car from him or have him sell a car for me. Our hobby and the classic car market in general would suffer a great loss if Steve ever decided to leave this industry and pursue other ventures.

[bergy]

I don't personally know any of the parties involved, but I can see how this thread has the potential to soil some reputations. For those of us who weren't part to the conflict, it's realy not fair to draw any conclusions. It takes so long to establish a good name - let's move on.

[JoeG]

Yep..it's startin' to go way beyond possible smoke and mirrors deals at auctions in General ..........
Bottom line is you've gotta have a pair of steel cahonies to put up your car at no reserve and hope everyone is on the same page......
Maybe you guys should duke this out behind close doors...