Yenko Clone appreciation...or not?

[Scottrods]

I would like to get some feedback from the forum on how the group feels about Yenko clones. I have been collecting Yenko parts for the last 10 years to do my own 69 Yenko Camaro clone and am about ready to start. In the fall, at the last local car show of the season, a couple of car builder aquantences came up to me and made this comment, "Why build a clone, you'll get shunned at every car show and autorama because it's not the real deal." Really, is there no place for a really well done clone with all the right parts and numbers? Is that how this forum feels about clones? There is no way I could afford an authentic Yenko, this is the only way to really appreciate what he started in 67.

Its your car, build it the way you want it never mind the car shows. Just don't misrepresent it.

[Scottrods]

I think that is where so much of the rub comes from. Guys representing clones as authentic cars. I understand this, but a well built car with as many authentic parts as can be found should garner the respect of the Yenko community, authentic or not. A build like this takes a lot more effort and time than a regular car build. So much attention goes into making sure all the right parts are date coded correctly and in the right place. Maybe I just worry too much. Just build the damn thing and if they don't like, don't ride in it.

[old5.0]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scottrods</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Just build the damn thing and if they don't like, don't ride in it.</span> </div></div>

I think that sums it up.

[iluv69s]

that is an interesting topic. I was at my 30th high school reunion and met up with a former classmate (who is a member here) and who restored a beautiful 69 Z28 with all the smog, etc.
We were talking when I mentioned my younger brother's glacier blue 69 Camaro. He sarcastically busted up laughing and said to me..&quot;You mean that fake camaro?&quot; and he went on to say how my brother's car took first place at a local car show and his car took second place.
..I just figured it was rather obvious that my brother's car was a fake Yenko. Yes it has the Yenko stickers, But it also has GLACIER blue paint, 502 emblems on the fenders, a full rollbar and racing saetbelts, 5 speed, guages,etc. inside....
If that wasn't enough of a giveaway, the big chrome blower sticking out of the hole in the cowl hood with the dual quads and a giant bug catcher...and maybe the mini-tubs, 4 link and the wheelie bars sticking out the back...???? ayayayay...

All I said to this fellow Camaro fan was that 'apparently my brother's car was alot 'cooler' than another restored green Z28'....

I do not get the hatred towards the people that build clones.
Or toward cars that are not so original or perfect. That is why in more than 30 years of owning early Chevys and mostly Camaros, I have rarely attended any car shows with any of my vehicles.

The unfortunate thing about building these 'perfect clones', they eventually become something more than a clone once the car gets sold a few times....I suggest that You document the car and it's build and all its nunbers here and on CRG and in the future the car will not become something more than it started. I'm sure if You were open and honest about it on these sites, the fellow members would support and help your effort.
I, for one, would.

But I do say, Build the car that You want...be honest about it and enjoy it. Good Luck.

Max

[John]

Welcome to the site....
...Have you thought about what the &quot;correct&quot; parts you have are worth to someone building an original Copo or Yenko?
....and if you look around ...there are a bunch of &quot;clones&quot; that could be purchased for alot less then it took to build them....
....that may be an option that will keep more money in your pocket
.....Either way you you go
....Enjoy the ride...Life is too short! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/3gears.gif

[1969z280]

John:

That's good advice. Ed

[Scottrods]

Thank you for the comments here, they are all good. As for buying a Yenko clone for less than I can build it...I have a shop here in northern Utah and building cars has been a long time passion and source of income since I was old enough to hold a wrench so building for me is cheaper than buying and it keeps me sane.
Having said that, last winter I purchased a 55 Chevy gasser from my good friend Rex Marshall, who found the car, restored it, raced it and brought it to the pages of no less than 6 national magazines. The minute I saw the car, I wanted it and eventually, Rex softened and sold it to me.
The problem was, no matter where I went, everyone would say, &quot;Oh that's Rex's car. Or, isn't that Rex Marshall's car?&quot; The 55 is the only car I have ever purchased that someone else built. It chafed on me so much that I recently sold the car to a gentleman in Florida with the help of Bill Fowler at Solo Speed Shop in southern California.
The point is, I love building cars, when I build a car, the sense of satisfaction and joy is indescribable. And although the correct parts I have collected over the years would be a boon to someone with an authentic Yenko, they will also insure that even though this is a clone, it is a very accurate clone and better investment for me.
And you are absolutely correct, and I appreciate the advise on documenting the build. When I start, I will present it here on the forum so if it passes from my hand, the chances of it being used to manipulate another Yenko enthusiast will be minimal.

Thank you all, this was not the response I thought I would get and I appreciate it.
Scott

[kwhizz]

Boy......This is a real touchy subject...First off you have to understand that most of the guy's here are on this site to preserve and protect the Pedigree of the Historic cars that were built in a short period of time in automotive history......
With that said.........theres only so many of those cars around and they are mostly out of the average guy's price range.....so.....what to do.....the average guy has a couple of options......
#1..Scrimp and save never getting to the point of accumulating enough cash to get the car of your dreams (like pushing a string) and if you are fortunate enough to acquire one....would you actually drive it.....as it's now a investment and is a piece of Automotive History.....
#2...&quot;Build&quot; a replica of what you really want.....But....knowing full well that there are going to be people that are going to look down on your car as many steps below their car because it's not real......(even though you enjoy and drive your car)......So......If you want to keep pushing the string and never get there, or build a &quot;Clone&quot; and enjoy the car of your dreams, it's a pretty simple choice as far as I'm concerned......But......the price of enjoying your &quot;Clone&quot; is not to concern yourself with the &quot;Attitude&quot; you're going to get from the Car Show &quot;Police&quot;.....Enjoy It..
Just my $.02

Ken

[92646]

Even if you bring out a real supercar to a car show somebody will have something to say that will rub you wrong. Heck I remember years ago going to a car show sponsored by GM and I walked past a blue 69 RS Camaro a couple of times thinking somebody brought out Grandma's car and put a cowl induction hood on it. Later in the morning some people came by and opened the hood. It was a super low mileage all original Rally Sport ZL1, my new favorite car. Just build the car and enjoy it knowing that you can not please all the people all the time but if you enjoy the car so what.

[John]

Got any photos of the '55 Gasser you sold?

We like those too! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/burnout.gif

[tom406]

I'll weigh into these murky waters. I will speak with the experience of someone who always wanted a Shelby and always found them just out of reach. And as someone who bought a mostly cloned '66 GT350H and put my own finishing touches on it.

Turns out I'm not a clone guy. I understand the frustration you had with the whole its-not-really-yours '55 gasser deal. Trouble is, I doubt you will enjoy the constant buzzkill of &quot;Is it real&quot; any more than you enjoyed the references to the previous owner of the already-restored gasser. It's basically a similar deal, people's perception lessening your pride of ownership in a car you are proud of.

And while I'm in the camp that thinks real parts belong on real cars (Shelby clones are pretty easy with repop stuff), I'm not going to verbally beat you up for your choices. HOWEVER, I will say that real parts on a clone are a foolish investment. I have a friend who bought a painstakingly sourced and replicated (all NOS, all the time) GT500 for little more than what the parts on it were worth. And that's why he got it, a parts car to restore his REAL GT500.

I understand that you will be able to do this work yourself, but how many of us have seen the receipts for these &quot;correct&quot; clones exceed the market value of a real car? I know of another GT500 clone that sold for $50K, it had total receipts for something like $125K. Hey, that's what a good (not great) real-deal car goes for now.

If you have everything you need to accurately clone a '69 Yenko, then by gosh, you have everything you need to RESTORE a '69 COPO, don't you? That's a much better investment of your time and resources IMO.

Good luck with whatever you do,
TOM

[RAIIIT/A]

Not trying to be a jerk... if I happen to sound like one... I am sorry... but...I am not a big fan of clones, tributes etc... Why make a car something its not? Why be fake and try and fool people into thinking a car is something that it is not? If I was in possession of a bunch of rare parts... I would by all means install them.. but I would not put any misleading identifacation (SS emblems, Yenko stripes etc.) on the car. I personally would rather have a thrashed original than a restored clone.... but I'm kinda weird I guess... JMO

BTW - I have a good friend that has 2 Shelby clones, a very very correct '66 and a '67 that he has owned for 30years, a fake Cobra and a CAV GT-40..... and I am forever harrassing him

[Fast67VelleN2O]

Screw what people think and build it! 99% of the people at &quot;car shows&quot; don't have a classic car and shouldn't give anyone a hard time about a &quot;real&quot; or &quot;fake&quot; car. To be honest, who cares! The only way to tell a real car from a fake is to check all the numbers and to have documentation. Most average car show people don't know what to look for when it comes to COPO's. Just tell them its &quot;real&quot; and that ends the questioning or the guys who like to give a hard time.

[John]

.... Maybe build a camaro....
..........with NO Yenko Stripes or EMBLEMS


.....Put a 'Singer &quot;hood on it ....and no emblems at all!

....Then when you lift the Hood....WOW!

....&quot;A Big Block&quot;


...By not putting any emblems including SS, Z/28, Yenko, ETC.

.....You would not be &quot;cloning&quot; anything...

....and you could still show off your attention to detail...

...... I have always wanted a BLACK 1969 Camraro with a big block and Stinger Hood.... with a Gold Stripe on the Stinger portion of the Hood....Hmmmm?
<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/Can-I-Have-It.gif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fast67VelleN2O</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Screw what people think and build it! 99% of the people at &quot;car shows&quot; don't have a classic car and shouldn't give anyone a hard time about a &quot;real&quot; or &quot;fake&quot; car. To be honest, who cares! The only way to tell a real car from a fake is to check all the numbers and to have documentation. Most average car show people don't know what to look for when it comes to COPO's. Just tell them its &quot;real&quot; and that ends the questioning or the guys who like to give a hard time. </div></div>

I agree totally. Build what <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">You</span></span> want. It's your car. I once saw a sign in a car window at a show. IIRC it went this way: &quot;To my Critics: If you're checking, none of the numbers match and I don't care. I built this car my way for me. I like it and thats all that matters. Have a good day :)&quot;

By the way, I could never (ever) afford a &quot;real&quot; car on the $$$ I make. I have a reasonably equipped shop with a pretty good collection tools and I really like working on my own stuff. My only option is to build away, and like the guy with the car show sign, I build stuff for me. That's what is important. Not what others think.

Take care man. And for one, I'd like to see progress on your build. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

Wayne

[PxTx]

No matter how you spin it, calling your hard work a clone does have a tendency to devalued things.

A lot of hard work went into collecting all of those hard to find parts. Sometimes the thrill of the hunt is the most fun part. Even after the car is done, I would still look for other nice additional items, like an old pair of Motor wheel Spyder mags.


You may want to consider building a &quot;period correct&quot; car and switching out parts as your mood dictates. one weekend you could have a stockish COPO look then the next maybe a little more Day 2 with some mag wheels and an L88 hood. I think you would be surprized at how much less negative attention you'll find going that route. You can always add the Yenko specific items if you aren't happy. I think it might be harder to subtract the negative stigma of being the guy who clones a Yenko, then deleted it to go a slightly different direction.

Like others have said, build what you want. If you asked me 15 years ago if I wanted to build a clone, I would have said yes. Maybe my tastes have changed and maybe I am a little wiser. I just feel that the collection of all those old parts should be sweet enough to stand on their own.

[markjohnson]

Don't forget that even the people with REAL cars often get asked that exact same question....&quot;Is is real?&quot; Ahhh....I long for the days back when the most important question was &quot;How fast is it?&quot; and the most important numbers happened to be the ones on a hand-written (remember those?) dragstrip timeslip?

[markjohnson]

Hey, here's a comparism for 'ya.......when you're in janitor closet with a beautiful woman at your company Christmas party are you really concerned with &quot;are those real?&quot; or &quot;are those fake?&quot; At that point, who cares and it really doesn't matter anymore because it's an enjoyable moment regardless of the answer. Real cars and well-done clones/tributes should be viewed the same way.

[tom406]

Hmmmm, although your image of handling the office pump is a compelling one, I offer another example. If you go and see the best Beatles tribute band you can find, no matter how good they sound, they'll never be John, Paul, George and Ringo. Its an imitation, and you have to decide for yourself if that's good enough.

[Scottrods]

Mark Johnson...LOLOL we didn't have a company Christmas party this year darnet! That's funny stuff.

As for the 55, here is a link to some pics Rex took just before I bought it. I don't know how to upload photos into the window here, if someone would like to enlighten me on the process, I will send some photo's of current projects and the 55.

Here is the link: http://gassermadness.com/visitorscars/marshall/

As for the comments here, I am in agreement with most of you. I have decided that it's my car...I have been waiting for 10 years to build it because I wanted it just as Don Yenko built it, I wanted to sit in a piece of history and feel what it was like to sidestep the clutch and mash the throttle in a vehicle just like it would have been in 69.

I love the idea of the sign, &quot;None of the numbers match and I don't care&quot;! Great stuff there. And I do have some different styles for the car, I have a set of vintage Dragmasters for wheels, but I also have original steel wheels with correct dog dish hubcaps for a more subtle look.

For those interested, even though this will be a complete frame off restoration, I plan to drive the car periodically and race it at the nestalgia drags here at Bonneville Raceway or as it is called now, Rocky Mountain Raceway. It won't be a trailer queen for long. A car like this is just too fun to let sit.

On a side note, I think you would be amazed at how many people have told me ways to alter the stamping on the block, alternator, transmission and rearend so I could pass it off as original...my hell, makes me wonder if I did have the money to buy an original, the leg work needed to separate the fakes from the authentic cars would be staggaring. Some of these guys are really really good at faking stuff.

Thanks for all your comments, I need to finish the 70 454 Chevelle I am doing, sell it and then it's on to the Yenko. The Chevelle should be done by June and on the sales block. All my money is tied up in this car so I can't move on to the Camaro till it sells. It's like I always tell my kids, &quot;You can have anything you want in this world, you just can't always have all of it at the
same time.

[kwhizz]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tom406</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmmmm, although your image of handling the office pump is a compelling one, I offer another example. If you go and see the best Beatles tribute band you can find, no matter how good they sound, they'll never be John, Paul, George and Ringo. Its an imitation, and you have to decide for yourself if that's good enough. </div></div>


Using your annology.......Knowing that the &quot;Real&quot; Band is gone and never to be seen again.........Do you forget about them, or.....get a chance to see the effort and creativity that someone has put into a project to relive that part of history and your youth......Same thing with the cars....Appreciate the talent and effort that was put into recreating a &quot;CAR&quot; from your past that you would like to see, feel, and drive again.....
Just build it the way you want, drive it, enjoy it, don't present it as real, and most of all....don't concern yourself with the &quot;Panty Wad&quot; group......And, It should be appreciated for the effort and tyalents that &quot;You&quot; put into your project.........&quot;It's a Car&quot;.......Nothing more, nothing less......Enjoy it and build it the way you want with the parts you want......

Ken

[AutoInsane]

For arguments sake what would a 1969 COPO cost that needs a resto? If you are going to put all of the time and $$$ into it you do need to consider what the value in the end will be.

If you could buy a COPO at a 1/2 way decent price... sounds like you already have a lot of the parts and you sound like you have the talent to do the work.....

What would it cost to do the 'regular' Camaro vs doing a COPO????

[Scottrods]

Billy, I have thought of that, unfortunately, I haven't been able to find a COPO for a price that I can afford or one that was in the condition that I wanted. Obviously I don't want a complete basket case, nor do I want one that is completed. It's been hard to find what I am looking for, which is why I picked up this X44 car that is date coded the 3rd week in May of 69, which I believe is when most of the yenko / COPO orders went out.

If someone here on the boards knows of a 69 COPO that is available and the guy doesn't want the moon, I am all ears.

[Unreal]

About 11-12 years ago, when I was looking for a 69 to restore, there was a Yenko, needing full restoration, in Hemmings for $25K, but I couldn't afford it. I ended up finding a plain Jane, locally, and building a Yenko clone. Bottom line is it's currently, probably worth $250K less than a real one. Not a good investment decision. However, you have to have the money and be willing to invest it, in order to reap the benefit.

[CamarosRus]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/CamarosRus/Chucks%2069%20Camaro%20COPO%20Clone/Eng1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/CamarosRus/Chucks%2069%20Camaro%20COPO%20Clone/Engine.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/CamarosRus/Chucks%2069%20Camaro%20COPO%20Clone/HRPT0c.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/CamarosRus/Chucks%2069%20Camaro%20COPO%20Clone/HRPT2Cb.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/CamarosRus/Chucks%2069%20Camaro%20COPO%20Clone/2004_0508Image0005.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/CamarosRus/Chucks%2069%20Camaro%20COPO%20Clone/Subframe11.jpg

[John]

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/Can-I-Have-It.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/Can-I-Have-It.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/Can-I-Have-It.gif
<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

[markjohnson]

Yeah.....I'm feelin' it too! What a sharp Camaro and I love its' understated looks!

[Kim_Howie]

The bottom line is it cost the SAME in time &amp; money to restore a 69 camaro clone Or real one. The only diff. is the initial investment. I personally would sell the real parts and use
plain jayne parts. JMO

[AutoInsane]

Just a bit of food for thought on values....

COPO Tribute - 'Nut &amp; Bolt restoration' $45k

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/chevrolet/camaro/1181753.html

Real COPO - $115k

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet...emZ250757074493 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet-Camaro-Certified-Real-Deal-1969-COPO-Camaro-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3a62494e3dQQitemZ25075 7074493)

?? Real Copo - Auction

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/carsforsale/chevrolet/camaro/1157154.html

Real Copo - Price ??

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/chevrolet/camaro/1129346.html

[ANDY M]

The LB car is here in Columbus, but I'm not familiar with the car.
Not only is there no price listed, but I don't see a trim tag on the fire wall. Very curious. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif

[Newman]

If I'm not mistaken the price on the Lemans Blue COPO in the last link is in the $115-125 range.

http://www.beannies.com/autos.html

[olredalert]

----I believe the 67 white Z/28 pictured on the Beannies sight came thru Classic Motors back in the late 70s. We bought it complete and in very decent condition in Ohio. It was owned by a guy that owned a junkyard......Bill S

[AutoInsane]

No one out there has a COPO resotration project to sell Scottrods?? <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/wink.gif

[L78M22Rag]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Newman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I'm not mistaken the price on the Lemans Blue COPO in the last link is in the $115-125 range.

http://www.beannies.com/autos.html </div></div>

They're asking $165k for the LB COPO... what's it worth?
Nice patina under the hood! Anyone know this car?

[AutoInsane]

I only bring up value to put the project in perspective. You are going to invest your time, effort and $$$ into a vehicle which will not have a value equal to all of the work put into it in the end. It sure seems like there are many very nice tribute cars out there that could be purchased for $45k and probably less if the seller had to sell the car in a short amount of time. Does not seem like your work would be (and I know $$$ is not your objective in building this car)financially rewarded.

Why not put your time, effort and $$$$ into something that will have a true collector car value when you are finished? How about an original 396/375 with a day 2 look?

What would be the going cost of a real COPO restoration project car?? ANyone know?? Might be well worth the investment! Just my $0.02.....