1969 427 camaro copo?????

[ronnieredline]

hello
i am impressed with this board, so much that i joined it and would like to discuss a few things.
first off, im impressed with alot of the knowledge from alot of the members here.
second everyone is so kind i thought i would join.
i havent ever joined something like this because i dont want people coming to my door so to speak.
this is why:
when i was 18 or so, i was a mustang freak, i had a neighbor bring his car to me to fix, he must have thought i was a good mechanic because i did a complete resto of a 67 mustang on my parents driveway, it was about 300 ft long, yes the car was from the end of the driveway to the front with parts. i replaced the floors and all the sheetmetal etc...
anyway, he needed the brakes fixed on his car, when he called he ask me to come and get it, the keys are in it he said. i went to go get it a few miles away, the brakes felt spungy so i tried it slowly to go home, the brakes werent working very good but i made it.
it had the original 427 in it, it had the air cleaner and all. it looked like it was messed with a litle bit to me.
i replaced the masted cylinder and the brakes worked but i had to press hard, then i heard a hissing sound from under the dash, the old master cylinder leaked from the rear so bad it damaged the rubber diaphram in the booster. i fixed it, and gave him the old parts, he said i dont want them you keepem. i dont know why but i took them back home.
i threw them in the corner of my dirt floor garage.

well about 6 months went by, and he called me again, he asked if i wanted to buy this car? why would i want it it i asked?
he said he needed the money and thought i had it, well i went and got it and brought it home, my younger sister was visiting our farm and i took her a ride, man did she love it, she said
"you gotta buy this car" the woman will love it, well i bought it and guess what? it had a 350 2 barrel in it???? i went to talk to him about the bigger motor and he said, oh yeah his dad made him take it out and i could go talk to the other guy who worked on it and get the motor and stuff that was in the car, so i did, he gave me so much stuff it didnt fit in the trunk, see i never looked under the hood to even see if it had the bigger motor, so i went and got it. he gave me the console, the air cleaner, wiring to the console, the carpet was soaked with oil, so they took it out. there was so much stuff i had to put some of it in the back seat. anyway the rest is history as they say.
i then parked it in the barn for about 2 yrs. threw the bigger motor which was all dissasembled, in with the chickens in the chicken coop, and left it, they laid egggs in the lifter valley for yrs.
now this is when i was about 18 i didnt care for chevys, but the water pump went out on it and i was told to fix it, because it was leaking on the barns wood floor and dad wouldnt have it, so after i pulled 4 fan bolts and 4 water pump bolts, i was like hey this is to easy?? compared to all the different ford bolts to take out, i then started to like the car, dad had a vette stingray in the garage and i was told, you should drive that car not the ford?
so i did, i took it up town and man did the heads turn! ! !
this car had 38000 miles on it, but the seats were loose, the back seat wasnt installed right, there were wires hanging down in the middle by the heater, i didnt even know what for??
yrs later i figured out what the accelerator hole was for, it went to a switch to open the hood flap, it is factory cowl induction and i thought the relay was for air conditioning, but the car doesnt have A/C, who cared at the time.
he painted the car before i worked on it and put the Z stripes on it and it does look nice i must say, to this day it has 46000 miles on it, the VIN is stamped on the trans, its a little messed up and not to straight but its there, and the block is very rusty but it has the VIN from the car on it as well, it is a MN stamp on the block pad and i think it says 1020 and the vin is by the oil filter, the trans is a 5661 M21, and was so messed up my friend had to hold it in 4th to get home, it just jumped out of gear when you stepped on the gas.
so i threw that in the barn and let it be, i had to get this car running for my wedding, i am now almost 45 and i had to find a trans because the one i had in it broke going to my friends funeral, so i went to the barn i own now, which is a different one than when i was a kid, but i kept alot of muncies, this is one i had left and never tore up because i never used it. i think all the stampings are real and un touched because i never even knew about that kind of info when i was a kid, so i discovered the trans vin when i bead blasted the trans and ordered gears for it, the trans had a B on it for a M21 but i counted the teeth and it was a M20, so i rebuilt it to M21 specs and got it going for the wedding, first time married by the way, no kids either.
now comes the rear diff, this is a 10E car X11 124379N factory big block all the way no if's or butts about it, it stands so tall in the front with a small block that it took shackles in the rear to level the car out, never ever had the heater core out of it or the heater box ,to this day. i checked the vin under the cowl and pulled the kick panels which were never out of the car and saw some numbers so i investigated, they are upside down but they match as well.
from my vin number this car was made during the last 5-9 days of the norwood plant before making the 70 camaro's. its so late that some of the stuff is from the 70 cars? is this the last one made??
anyway, thers is so much history i have on this car, not paper work, but from what ive done to it as a kid and so on, i did put a new windshield in it and found the protecto plate stuffed under the dash when we took out the dash pad, which is broken up under neath so we re-installed the dash with a chrome strip to hold down the front of the dash from curling up i thought it was a credit card, i gave it to the guy who helped me with the windshield and did some paint touch up and undercoated the car for me, he kept it, i called him and he still has it, i have yet to go get it, but he has it and said he would send it to me. now ive done some investigating on the rear diff and it has a BE 1030G2 on it with a E under all of the numbers,which means a oct 30 assembly date BUT the cast date is F239 which makes no sense to me at all??? i cant make up my mind if its an 8 or a 9 you look at it one way and its a 9 or the other way and it might be an 8 but the rear diff has never been out of the car and i even tore out the factory 4:11's, the pinion nut came loose when i stopped at a stop sign and it locked up, i was like what?? i didnt keep the gears but dad showed me what to look for and turn the driveshaft and the tires and all, way before hand, then when i tore it out, i counted the teeth on the ring gear and on the pinion and did the math and it really was a 4:10 ratio, i put new gears in, but the old posi unit was scarred up a little so i got a new one, thing is i still have it to, it has a FH 425 J and 52 and 425 hand stamped on it on the part that the bolts go through to hold the ring gear to it. its also casted with a EDB 30174, the casting in the rear diff is 3894860, ive asked a guy about it and he says its should be something else?? but its a june diff and they changed to what he said after sept or so, so i think it should be the right casting for the F239 date thats cast into it?
why would a BE1030G2 rear diff have a F239 cast date???
im going to have a certification done on it, i talked to a guy named doug something and he said congrats its a copo, but whats with the cast dates? he also said "if you ever want to sell it ask me first ok?" thing is, do i really need it certified? its alot of money to do it, i have everything to it??
can anyone shed light on this, i could go on forever about the history of this car with me, so dad told me to start to write it down, i started with what i told on here, but alot more details, its 6 pages long and counting!!
please let me know about this car because i have the original alt 1100837,the holley carb 4346, pulleys,water pump,master cyl and booster, hold off valve, distributor,air cleaner heads 291, coil im not to sure about, 3163 intake but dates are to hard to read?? anyway the guy i bought it off of wont tell me anything else because he wanted to buy it back about 6 months after i got it and i said no, i wont sell it, its in the barn and im going to keep it, so the only thing he told me when i bought it was that he had it a about 8 months and he got it from a guy who bought it from glockner chevrolet, in portsmouth, thats about and hour from me or less.
anyone who could shed light on this please let me know
thank you for reading this, its interesting to me even sometimes. i replaced the front fenders and the grill when i was a kid, the guy who helped with the windshield also helped me, the grill was silver, it seemed odd to me??
i really dont care what the car is but my friends told me for yrs that this car was something neat and special we never figured it out, they always said there is something about that car?? i dont care what it is, as long as i can finally figure it out! ! ! i had a guy drive 6 hours one way just to look at it, and he said it was definetly worth the trip, he also wanted to buy it, but its not for sale, i dont care if its a 6 cylinder car, i had to much fun in it when i was a kid and i dont want people marching to my door to ask for it, when i was a kid i had this set up on the car, i had a 58 vette 2x4 set up factory down to the bolts for the thermostat housing and the linkage and all, i got hunted down so bad i had to hide them, and ended up selling them, i wont sell this car ever. i was offered my full mortgage payment for it, i turned it down in 1 second.
please let me know, someone out there can shed light on this

[iluv69s]

Im sure you will be getting some pm's soon with people wanting to buy your car. It seems as if you indeed do have a Copo camaro if all you are saying is correct. Congratulations !!
It sounds like you have some great memories and stories about the car. I'm sure everyone would love to see it and here some of your stories. . How about posting some pics here and I am sure the 'experts' will chime in and let you know exactly what you have and what is correct and what is not.Any old pics from back in the day??
If you have any questions that I can help with, let me know.

Once again great story !!!! Congrats!!! max

[69z28302]

SOunds like an interesting find. I am courious to what color combination it was originally? Glockner sold a bunch of Hi-Po cars from their dealership. Would love to here more about this car.
Mike

[69 Post Sedan]

Great story and as Mike said would love to see pictures. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/3gears.gif

You have come to the right place to get the correct information, that's for sure.

All the numbers seem to be correct although it appears the rearend was assembled either the same day or a day before the car was built. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif

Kurt <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

[ronnieredline]

well i have a photo my dad took of me, it has an SS emblem on the front but i took off the ones on the fenders, but left the camaro emblem, i think the dealer put the SS emblems on it to sell it as a 396 car, i can validate the photo because my dad is an engineeer of 40 yrs, and he helped design the Dash 80 jet engine, among others things but i was wearing the shirt in the photo which advertised the dash 80 engine that he brought home for me, that along with the title proves ive had it that long, it was all white with a chrome bumper, i can find all the Z21 trim parts on the car, so it must have had the Z21 package, it also has a factory tach,center clock , and full console with the guages, only thing is i got 2 sets of guages with the car, silver ones and black ones, the silver ones all worked except for the amp guage, but the black ones all work, so i wonder if someone swapped them out, because they didnt work? or did it come with black face guages? i think if it didnt, it should have, because they match the dash guages and the silver ones dont??? im trying to restore the original console, i got some dye but it wasnt right at all, so i bought a junk console to experiement with, did you guys know you can glass bead a console down to the original white and it doesnt hurt it at all??? it works great! ! ! in the photo it has a black grill but this is right after i got it off the rollback and got it back home, it had a fender bender when i was a kid, so i replaced both front fenders and the grill, a black one was the only one available back then so i had to get it, i still have some bow tie emblems for it, they also came in the trunk??? this car has factory disc brakes also , it had a 427 on the lower fender skirts, and was written on the inner fender wels, but i painted over them when i coated the whole car with black rustoleum when i was a kid, im not sure about both of them, but i do have one original skirt with the writing on it, the car is blue inside, everything is blue dash, seats, console,carpet, package tray, i mean everything even the seat belts the belts are dated 42 A 69, which seems correct?? you know chevy dropped the ball on the seat belts guys, where do you put the one for the shoulder belt [the female] it just flops around, i have been doing extensive research and saw one car that had a clip in which it held the female shoulder belt?? im going to use a set of 67 console belt clips and screw them to the shifter tunnel right in front of the front seat, it looks sharp and holds the belts there, just make the hole a little bigger and they click right in. there is a photo on here of a white copo car, this is exactly what my car looked like except mine had a chrome bumper, my car also has the under hood light,trunk light and under dash lights, and also has a fiber optic wire for the ash tray? did you guys know there was a rectangle plug that went in under the cowl right above the windshield wiper motor? its still there on mine. i will try to answer any questions, mine is still standing un answered, why is the BE1030G2 with a &quot;E&quot; under the stamps, it is a F239 casting?
please let me know
thank you

[69 Post Sedan]

BE(4.10) 1030 (October 30th) G2 (2nd shift) E (Eaton Posi). It appears the rearend was cast on June 23rd and sat until they used it in October which seems very possible.

Think of it this way....a bunch of rearends were cast and put in bins, when the parts started to get low, they had more made. So your rearend might have been sitting while the newer ones were being used. They didn't rotate stock.

Kurt

[al8apex]

how many PM's have you had with offers to buy it?? <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

[ronnieredline]

the rear end was cast F239 then it sat but it was assembled on 1030, the car was started on 10E fifth week oct, meaning the rear was assembled on the 30th of oct, my car was started 10E first week in november

[ronnieredline]

the car is the original color, it is a 50 50 car, dover white, the door ends and the quater ends that you dont see when the door is closed are original paint, its kinda yellowish white, like its faded over the yrs. it has the original hood marked 42nd week of the yr, original trunk lid h 35 or 42 im not sure i will check it, it has a front and rear spoiler, and has the center brace hole drilled out for the center brace, but its the only brace i dont have??? the quarters are either 42 or 43 i cant tell, the drivers door has 2 stampings behind the door panel, one is a H35 i think but it is at the bottom, the other one is at the top and is a H42 i think, the pass side has one stamp and it matches the drivers door upper stamp., i found the grommet and wires for the original cowl hood wiring, about 12 inches are left on the engine side but the interior side has the whole length to go to the fuse panel.
i wonder if there is a build sheet under the headliner? someone told me there might be, it is ripped a little and the seems are dry rotted but still holding, i might have a look under the headliner to see if i can find a build sheet.
im going to get a pad of paper and write down all the numbers i can find on this whole car and record them so i will have them close at hand. i do have the starter and it is a 1108418 i think, i have the bellhousing for the clutch it is a 621 aluminum type and in mint shape, it has a clip on one of the bolts to hold the starter wires from hitting the exhaust. i twisted the driveshaft once when i was doing a front wheel stand, and it sliced the floor pans up a little, but not noticable, but i did just get done fixing the shifter hole from when i cut it out when i was a kid. i think they should have never sold a hurst super shifter, a friend told me my car was an automatic because it had a lever on the bottom of the steering column and the shifter hole was cut out with a torch, i said why does it have a clutch pedal then??? well over the yrs, i found out the truth, it has a reverse lockout, which i think goes on the car and the torched cut out hole well, thats the way they did it in 69, so i have finally got it mig welded back and found the bottom original hole for the shifter and about 2 inches of the original torch cuts from the factory are still there, if i showed you the repair and you didnt know it was fixed, you wouldnt even know it or notice, thing is im usually cussing someone who chops up cars, well i did it myself when i was about 19, so now at 45 guess who's kicking who??
anyway i will try to load a photo of it soon, i do have a photo of me and the car when i was 18, the tile says 38000 miles on it and when i bought it the clerk personally came out to inspect the cars milaege to make sure, its how they did it back then i guess, he said how much are you paying son? i told him and he said&quot; dont you think thats alot for this car&quot;? but compared to nowdays, you couldnt even by a sub frame for that. to get ready for the wedding i checked the rear brakes, well they havent work at all since ive owned the car, passenger was locked up and leaked sometimes but the drivers side worked but it has a cracked drum, the pass drum is in mint shape not even worn but the drivers is worn badly and cracked, i took off the original brake shoes and the original cylinders to it, i had to, in order to get it going for the wedding.it still has the original clips on the rear end to hold the brake lines and also the clip under the differential cover bolt as well, i had to replace the pass side brake line, i tried to save it but it was to rusted, but i saved and used the spring scuff guard on the new line. i have stuff from this car that i took off since i was a kid, oh by the way dad wouldnt let me drive it to school, he said no way son, i had to take the ford mustang or my 1979 honda civic, bummer but id bet i would have gotten bothered over it and he knew it to.
please give me time to answer all questions and i will get to them asap.
thank you

[ronnieredline]

i have had no PM's to offer to buy it and as i said, in a mild manner tone, it is not for sale.
id love to discuss anything about the car, but if people start to come to my door, i will dissapear once again. it just scares me to no end. its been a fun car, cops pull you over just to see it, thats always fun??? ive out ran so many cops in it, i think they hit their lights just to see how fast it really ran, but i wont out run them now, to hard to fix and its a felony now, i get week in the knees for real when i just get a little wild in it, no joke. i did have 2 state boys,2 sherriffs, 2 county mountys on my tail at one time, i wound it out tight and shut off the lights and screamed by the moon lit night, they turned off their lights and let it be. is was fast in its day, i shifted at 9000 sometimes 8000 but it took it very well for about 8 yrs or so till i took out the motor, when i pulled the motor it sat for another 15 yrs or so, miraculously my driving record is perfect?? hmmmm maybe it was that car??? the rear diff had a plastic tag on it with a weird size bolt or cap, it is known now it belongs there. thers alot to research on the car. my next question is, is it the last copo made? does anyone know of a copo made on the last day of the first week of november, my car was made the first week of november 10E i did the math and at 700 cars a day mine falls in to about the last 4,5,6,7 or 8th day before the last camaro rolled off the line, i looked it up on CRG. my car has the body number after they started the roll over in late 69 and my VIN is in the last 4-8 days of production, anyone know of a camaro even made this late besides mine? if they do is it a copo? is mine a copo? to be determined.
thanks for your question

[Born30YrsLate]

Out of curiosity since this is a late build car with what is the original rear...is it &quot;CBE&quot; stamped or definitely stamped just &quot;BE&quot;?

[ronnieredline]

a guys screen name known as &quot;hawaiiancamaro&quot; has posted a photo of a car that looks just like mine minus the front bumper, mine was chrome.
i want to post a photo but how do you do it? someone let me know and i will give one out, its of me and the car when i was 18.

[GMC_Typhoon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ronnieredline</div><div class="ubbcode-body">a guys screen name known as &quot;hawaiiancamaro&quot; has posted a photo of a car that looks just like mine minus the front bumper, mine was chrome.
i want to post a photo but how do you do it? someone let me know and i will give one out, its of me and the car when i was 18. </div></div>Send it to me and I'll post it up.

badv6blazer2000@yahoo.com (mailto:badv6blazer2000@yahoo.com)

[ronnieredline]

i still have the hub caps for the car, but the wheels i traded off to a friend for his bel air or something like it, i kept the hub caps though. also have the original bumper,gas tank is mint inside,all original brake lines except rear pass,original single fuel line,front springs,fender dust seals, all wiring is intact even the resistor wire, head lights arnt original,the back os the dash has a ink stamp of oct 23 1969 and another number like 7-9 or something, i can check it if i need to. it is unsalvageable,all the plastic bosses are broken off, the kid before me just pulled the dash off instead of taking out the bolts from behind, because the dash peeled up so much i guess he just grabbed it and pulled hard???? yep he's an idiot, i will keep the dash, but i gotta get a new one. the rear interior quarter panel covers have a code on them, pass side says 12437 something and the drivers side says something like j30 or g something i can look again. if its important. the seat are original as well, nice shape, i re-dyed the from seat back covers and the kick panels, they were encrusted with something, i scaped them off cleaned and primed them and re-dyed them, it looks ok i guess.
thank you again

[ronnieredline]

ther is no dought about it, it is stamped &quot;BE1030G2&quot; with an E under the stamping. the &quot;E&quot; is bigger than the &quot;B&quot; just like all the other photos ive seen of rear BE differentials.
i dont know who is saying that these late camaros are to be with a CBE on the rear diff or CMN on the block, but i have proof enough to show that with the latest car known in my opinion, that is a copo, that they didnt stamp them with 3 letters in late 69, i just dont believe it.
so rest easy if you have a 2 letter stamping, my car is so late that i did the math and it was ran through the assembly line around the 4th to the 8th day before the last one rolled off the line. my VIN is way over 709000.
thanks for your question, i love to do research as well, it is fun to do. after all we dont know the truth, but we have the evidence, if we all unite with the info on our cars to figure it out right?
have a nice day.

[GMC_Typhoon]

You? sure have bought a lot of nice stuff from ebay.
http://feedback.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...tab=AllFeedback (http://feedback.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&amp;userid=ronnieredline&amp;f tab=AllFeedback)

My fave http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=140480091945

[69 Post Sedan]

I think a lot of us would like to see the &quot;MN&quot; stamp on the pad (among other things). If you want, I can post it if you send it to me.

Kurt <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

[ronnieredline]

yes i have bought alot of stuff recently on ebay. no im not hiding anything, if you have a doubt ask me, i will have a valid excuse for each and every purchase, including the dishwasher vavle i also bought on ebay, yeah the new wife was up set when the water inlet valve didnt work! ! !
i bought a shifter i threw mine away it didnt even work right also bought a 68 nova style shifter also for the 68 big block im fixing up also bought a holley carb to, but if you would look at the date code its a 922, it isnt correct for my 10E car but is CORRECT for my other 69 i have its a march car! ! ! ! ,a console,some silver guages for parts to fix the one that came with the car because in the upper story, if you read it, the ammeter doesnt work! ! ! a clip for the starter wires, the one i have is factory but it broke and wont stay on with the bolt, its a half circle instead of a full round eyelet, i have bought clips and shackles, because i threw mine away, because i had to raise the rear end of the car because the front was so high with a small block it was hard to drive now if i put the 427 back in, i will lower it with the used ones i bought,gee never thought of that did ya ???.i bought riv nuts because mine were stripped out, for some reason, i didnt take out the console it was in the trunk with a boat load of other stuff,i did buy a console because i wanted to practice on how to restore them with the PROPER type of plastic, you just dont go into something blind nobody could tell me including you WHAT TYPE OF PLASTIC IT IS, remember i was raised by an engineer, you research things first, i bought a grill emblem because mine has a broken stud and i need a worn replacement that doesnt look new,i bought a neg battery cable, and a booster and master cylinder, only it was for the other 69 big block i have which is a 396 375 car, i have 2 other 68 big block cars as well, i build new houses and got lost in winchester ohio once looking for a carpet place and stopped for directions and to scope out his cars and he sold them to me, long story short, i bought these cars from a guy who liked 53 chevys better than these cars, the copo i have now ive had since i was about 18 any title office will prove it to you, i cant even do a car fax on it, because it doesnt exist in the car fax i tried it. the cars i bought from him was a find but my friends told me i was nuts for for paying 1400 a piece for them 15 yrs ago, but i did it, now the same friends are offering me 5-8000 for them, and i havent even touched them, the others i have had for about 10 yrs or so. i also bought the cowl vent panel wedges to re-seal my cowl up again they were rotted and fell apart, i bought a radio harness because i want to hook up my factory am radio with the correct plug, i cut the original one off to hook up my jenson radio when i was a kid, yes we all did it back then, i also bought a trunk mat, but i dont think it belongs in the car but i dont like the undercoating getting all over the stuff i put in the trunk, it rubs off on it,the big block oil pan is for a friends corvette, a camaro doesnt have a trap door oil pan, i found it for him,the dash pad bolt kit, well mine didnt have any, it was coming apart, read the upper story, which the kid before me pulled the dash pad off, the rear quarter glass was tinted in which i bought, no mine arent tinted, but my best friend who raced with me in this car has died and he sold me a whole set of tinted glass out of a 69 big block with a/c that he had, i broke one after his death and wanted a complete set to have, because i now own his car after 20 yrs of running with him, his son drove his dads car to his funeral it was sad, it has a bad wrist pin but his son drove it anyway, i bought it secretly because after his death his sons mom spent everything on drugs and was going to crush the car and he sold it to me sight unseen because i had to have a friend watch her at a department store and radio to me where she was, i had to have a lead car and follow car to get it home from the fear of her ramming me, she didnt like me because i went running around with her husband, we chased each others cars all night but he never did do anything with other woman, just an over jealous wife, im glad i dont have one of those, this is the funeral in which my trans went out on me, thus i parked it and had to bring it out of moth balls to drive it for my wedding! ! ! !! ANY OTHER QUESTIONS??? why would i try to hide anything when im using the same screen name on here as i do on ebay ??? duh, i do have a IQ above the normal 190 ????

[ronnieredline]

yes the dash is for my other 69 march car i have i hooked up the tach unit, and used a HEI ignition, i burned it out completely about 8 yrs ago, anything else?????

[ronnieredline]

does anybody have the little blue thread protectors for behind the tach, id like to have a set. as for you typhoon, no photos for you, by the way doug perry and i have been on the phone in the past he knows the car he is friends with jerry mc neish,he knows all the numbers and all the dates, i even called him on my honeymoon and talked about it for about an hour and a half, he knows all about it and said without a doubt what it is. my wife said are you going to sell it? I said no, she said i dont think your ready to sell it either, she likes it to.
doug perry knows who i am and what the info is, go ask him about it,geesh you try to make friends and bango, its been like this everytime i talk about this car, i will send some photos asap, im trying to finish up a new home, cape cod style and with a 12/12 roof it isnt easy with snow on it. the weather we have gotten is not fun to work in to say the least, it is slowing me down to a crawl, and were expected to get more this monday??
anyway if im going to get it certified and i have everything, why do it? its going to cost me money and i already know what it is. its like throwing money away, but it would prove it once and for all. i will do it but i gotta finish this cape cod house first.

[Salvatore]

I may have a pair of those blue caps. What are they worth to you? Sam

[ronnieredline]

well i threw mine away when i was a kid because i knocked them off getting to the broken dash pad, as i mentioned in my original storie, i dont know what would you take for them? id like 3 if possible, id give you 30 bucks incl shipping?
let me know
im trying to posts some photos, how the heck do you do it??

[ronnieredline]

im trying to download photos, but now it says to down load &quot;easy files&quot;? and then photo bucket?
ive never done it, but i have the photos already in my PC. hmmm

[69SSZL1]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ronnieredline</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> this is a 10E car X11 124379N factory big block all the way no if's or butts about it,</div></div>


I am trying to follow your story, are you saying your COPO is a 10E X11?

[ronnieredline]

yes my car is 10E build date on the cowl, 10E and its a X11 car why? you know something that i should check out?
the VIN is above 709000 way above it. the body number is 142845
i was told they started the body numbers over in august of 69 at 100000 is this right?

[Charley Lillard]

go to fookes.com and download &quot;easy Thumbnails&quot; then resize your pics to 640 x 480.

[ronnieredline]

thank you charley you are very kind, i will do what i can
thank you for your time

[ronnieredline]

i down loaded it, now if i can find the pics, how do you send them to this site?

[Stefano]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ronnieredline</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yes my car is 10E build date on the cowl, 10E and its a X11 car why? you know something that i should check out?
the VIN is above 709000 way above it. the body number is 142845
i was told they started the body numbers over in august of 69 at 100000 is this right? </div></div>

I have seen a 10A built COPO with a body number of 142850 that I believe was also sold new in that same area.

[ronnieredline]

these are some of the photos, im going to try to get a better camera, the block is at the shop but i will get photos of it to, the rest macth my childhood story,mustang, 2x4 intake,me with the car etc...
thank you all for your help

[ronnieredline]

im trying like crazy but i cant find but one of the muncie with the numbers on it, but it says 4 dowloads?

[ronnieredline]

i know everyone is going to ask &quot;what are the hammer marks next to the &quot;BE&quot; well i dont have an naswer for it, its the way its been since i discovered it about 20 yrs ago, its to far away to try to erase the first code or what? nobody knew what a code was back then? why mess with it? i have looked at the hammer marks and under a high powered magnifying glass there is nothing there, looks like a vice jaw or something??? anyone with any suggestions besides a re-stamp??? a re-stamp is not the answer, it hasnt been messed with since i bought it over 25 yrs ago, could this be a factory mess up? god as my witness i dont know why they did this?

[ronnieredline]

here are some more pic's, i have to clean these cars up they have mildew on them and i got to clean them soon, but they dont smell and it wipes right off. i got to do it this spring. or sooner

[ronnieredline]

here are some more pics

[ronnieredline]

wow only 5 away fgrom my body number? i had a different guy tell me the same thing in an email that alot of copo's were done at this time and mine was right in the middle of the nest of them is what he told me.

[enio45]

Do I see a faint indication of a C about 3 spaces before the BE stamp? My 10D camaro has the C before the BU stamp on my z28. The late cars did have this as well as the 1970 rear housing casting number.

IF this was built early and waited around for installation, that will expalin the mid yr casting date and a late production stamp. Not sure if all rears installed that late got the C stamp or not.

[ronnieredline]

i think they made thousands of these copo cars, im begining to think they are as common as a rs/ss z28 or something, it seems everyone has one? glockner chevrolet is about an hour from me, and edgewater raceway is about and hour away, i took my car down there yrs ago and pulled an 11.60 flat with it, some old guy about 75 or 80 walks up and says hey you got that car now? it still looks like it did back in my day??? im like what?? yeah he says, it was here alot it raced against alot of chryslers and fords, it had a good record with the guys, but i asked who raced it? he couldnt remeber, he said the guy was a quiet type and looked alot like me?? good grief?? have i been cloned???, he said the guy had a big engine in it and it was all hot rodded up??
that must be his old school terms, but he said it looks just as it did back then hood and all, he checked it out, those were the days he said, and walked off in to a haze it seems now, i really wondered to this day what its all about???
i am baffeled by this, maybe the guy who sold it to the kid i got it off of is the guy this older gentlemen was talking about? man this is to much to figure out, i will never figure it out, the raceway doesnt keep records does it? i should call them, its worth a shot. maybe ole grumpy owned it or fred gibb hhhaaa hhaaaa i doubt it big time.

[ronnieredline]

well i can check but there alot clearer when you see them in real life and there is no &quot;c&quot; at all on this rear diff none, i will check the photos to see what your looking at
thank you

[ronnieredline]

i went out and checked and there is no way that there is a &quot;c&quot; there, it must be dirt or a hammer mark or something else in the photo, it is clear as a bell only a &quot;BE&quot; and thats it, could this help in research? i will show all i can, i have a better camera but i have to go get it and take some more pics.

[ronnieredline]

you see this is how its been for about the last 15 yrs any one i talk to has a different answer, im not complaining but the story just goes round and round and has for years and years, thats why im on here for all the help i can get, i appreciate all the help, but now its supposed to have a &quot;c&quot; there? what if human error comes into play and the guy stamping it just didnt feel like stamping it right or the person was new? or something, but yours has a CBU on it huh? hmmm well the hammer marks are to far away to hammer away the &quot;C&quot;, its just to far away? this car is supposed to be a mistery and never solved, i guess thats the answer??? i even cjecked the whole rear diff out it does have a conv 1 on it and a bunch of numbers going 12345, 67890 or something garbeled up it makes no sense either??? this is going to be a fun one to figure out guys, and thats if we do???

[PeteLeathersac]

Welcome aboard!.
Your info uncovered so far looks promising and we're looking forward to seeing the POP pics too!.

Below attached pic of the Glockner lot has been posted here before, possibly even the subject car in this shot?!

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&amp;Number=23628&amp;filename= 401536-

Wasn't Glockner a Yenko network dealer too?.
Is it known if they delivered Yenko Camaros as well as the 'regular' L72 Copo Camaros they sourced themselves?.

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif
~ Pete

[al8apex]

a little hint for taking closeups with a digital camera

there is a button (the macro) that looks like a flower

you engage/enable/turn it on - it to take closeup pictures <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

[69z28302]

Hey Ronnie Redline. Whats the picture of the Red 69 Z/28 with the vinyl top? Give us the scoop on that.
Thanks
Mike

[Jonesy]

http://www.camaros.net/forums/images/smilies/popcorn.gif

[ronnieredline]

well i will tell ya one thing, i have been informed that there is a copo out there that is only 5 cars away from mine, when i was a kid someone told me that this car was sold with a sister car ordered with it, im not getting excited but the glockner photo seems to prove it, seems to brothers bought these to &quot;sister cars&quot; and kept them until i guess they got sold to different owners, the rumor has it this is true, but the cars looked almost identical, seems the photo from glockner adds more evindence to the theory maybe, who ever found it HEY thanks for being so kind in sharing that info and photo, this confirms the old sister cars theory, but on the real side who really knows right?
thank you for telling me about the macro button i did know it existed but forgot that i read about it in the manual when i bought it, i will try it again.
anybody have any input on the hammer marks next to my rear diff stamping?? is been that way for over 25 yrs so is it a mistake or what? it looks like they stamped it at the factory as one thing, found out they screwed it up and corrected it?? but to correct it they had to do it before they date stamped it, because if they date stamped it then &quot;BE&quot; stamped it then they would be to close together right???

now on the red 69 Z28 this was a fun car, neighbor owned it down the road, i never drove it until i started to like my own car, which was a couple of yrs after i got it, after he found out i had a 69, we were pretty close, it was as original as my own car, he got it for 2500 bucks in 1982 or so, i found out when he brought it over to my place, i drove it alot and took it to some cruise in's and up town, i might have driven it more than him, he acted scared to drive it. let me tell ya it was a fast little small block all the way down to the 4.10 gears in the back, at least i think it had them because it really revved going down the road, the trans always whined loudy, but never went out?? hmmm are you thinking what im thinking? M22 which we didnt even know about back then, it was a very fun car, no crossram but a holley and headers and such.i have lost track of him after i went to college but i bet i could find him, i know his parents real well, i remodeled there whole house about 12-15 yrs ago. my car wasnt driven until about 84 or so might have been 83 i really havent narrowed it down, and dont feel it really necesary, but he didnt tell anyone i had it. dad told him not to tell, funny thing he never did tell?? i am going to try to get more photos, we will have bad weather tuesday and i wont be going to work on the new cape cod, so i might stay in the shop and re-take some photos, i did finally learn how to get them on the site yeah ! ! ! ! ! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif i will try the macro button and see what it does for close ups,
has anyone heard of the number &quot;2&quot; being offset on the 4 speeds before?, both of mine have offset, but only the number &quot;2&quot; ?? i will try to get a close up of it and send it in, it looks like something was wrong with the &quot;2&quot;?? it did it both times on the vin of my trans??? does this happen alot or what, they didnt even try to correct it?? i dont know i will look at it again.
thanks for everyones suggestions, i will keep it touch and try to answer all the question.
your helping and caring is appreciated.

[ronnieredline]

daves 68 car and my 69 are the 2 cars i have that are somewhat done, the other 68 and 69 i have are in storage and im begining to work on them, dad says at least get the parts while you can son. but i gotta find out about my car first and get it back together, prefferably to get it out of my shop.
i have some other family vehicles to work on also my little 3 cylinder metro, it gets 48 miles to the gallon, now why cant other cars do that???

[ronnieredline]

i like jonesy's reply, just sitting there eating popcorn and enjoying the show hhaaaa hhhaaaa
to good ! ! ! ! sometimes i do the same.
thanks jonesy, your a class act ! ! !

[ronnieredline]

i also have a 83 Z28, wifey wants me to fix it up and let her drive it. it was bought about 12 yrs ago, it has the crossfire injection, it was kinda sluggish to drive, but i bet with some asking around i could make it fly again, it hasnt been touched either, its all original, interior is mint except for the &quot;sudden&quot; headliner falling down in storage, but back in the day finding one of these and maybe even now might not be to hard to do, its comfy to drive though. are these somewhat hard to find now? i heard they only made the 83 and 84 camaro's with the crossfire fuel injection? ive been told there hard to find, anyone else know? mine is blue interior and a silverish blue exterior, but it didnt have rear disc, i converted them to disc, kept the original rear, but now there is no pressure to the back brakes, none at all!!! i had it with it and pulled it back to the storaged place havent touched it for years. most of my hobbies are at the right place, its just not the right time.
theres a time and a place for everything right?

[Jonesy]

1982-83 Camaros had the optional 305 with crossfire injection.

[ronnieredline]

holy toledo ! ! !!
here is a new photo using the macro button
ENIO45 WAS RIGHT!!!!!
it does have a &quot;C&quot; stamped in the rear diff, 3 spaces before the &quot;BE&quot; , why so far away? maybe the hammer marks were done by someone before me or even me as a kid???
the trans says P9?05B, it has marks on it from prying the mid plate off of the trans, it was corroded on when i was a kid and i broke it getting it off.
i will be the first here to admit i was wrong on the stamping.
i just never touched the rear diff stamp until tonight and sanded the surface to get it good and clean and there it was a big fat &quot;C&quot; in front of the &quot;BE&quot;
you learn something everyday huh?

[Vern B]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ronnieredline</div><div class="ubbcode-body">holy toledo ! ! !!
here is a new photo using the macro button
ENIO45 WAS RIGHT!!!!!
it does have a &quot;C&quot; stamped in the rear diff, 3 spaces before the &quot;BE&quot; , why so far away? maybe the hammer marks were done by someone before me or even me as a kid???
the trans says P9?05B, it has marks on it from prying the mid plate off of the trans, it was corroded on when i was a kid and i broke it getting it off.
i will be the first here to admit i was wrong on the stamping.
i just never touched the rear diff stamp until tonight and sanded the surface to get it good and clean and there it was a big fat &quot;C&quot; in front of the &quot;BE&quot;
you learn something everyday huh?</div></div>

Curious if you know of, or remember any other Glockner COPO's if
you lived in, or near, Portsmouth back in the day. I have a friend that has a Glockner COPO and is still looking for information on the car. We believe it came to Michigan fairly early in it's life and is a Dusk Blue car.

Hope this works out for you and another Glockner COPO is found.

[ronnieredline]

now that i found a &quot;C&quot; before the &quot;BE&quot; letters on the rear diff, when i go to the machine shop and look for the letters and numbers on the pad, what should they be? CMN or MN?
this is something to be found out yet.
what if they say what i thought they read? MN instead of CMN?
if its a MN is it a bad thing? or does it matter, id say it matters especially since i just found the &quot;C&quot; on my rear diff?
please let me know what is what.
thanks to all

[Stefano]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ronnieredline</div><div class="ubbcode-body">holy toledo ! ! !!
here is a new photo using the macro button
ENIO45 WAS RIGHT!!!!!
it does have a &quot;C&quot; stamped in the rear diff, 3 spaces before the &quot;BE&quot; , why so far away? maybe the hammer marks were done by someone before me or even me as a kid???
the trans says P9?05B, it has marks on it from prying the mid plate off of the trans, it was corroded on when i was a kid and i broke it getting it off.
i will be the first here to admit i was wrong on the stamping.
i just never touched the rear diff stamp until tonight and sanded the surface to get it good and clean and there it was a big fat &quot;C&quot; in front of the &quot;BE&quot;
you learn something everyday huh? </div></div>


Body number 142850 has a C BE dated 10 03

[ronnieredline]

now if i go to the machine shop, and look at the stamping on the engine pad, after he blasts it and dips it, what if its a &quot;MN&quot; and not a &quot;CMN&quot;?
is this a bad thing if the &quot;C&quot; isnt their in front of the &quot;MN&quot;
id say its not to good. please let me know, if i can make it soon im going up there its a long drive to say the least.

[Stefano]

I don't think you should take any more chances. Just sell the Camaro now <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/Can-I-Have-It.gif

[ronnieredline]

thansk stefano!!!
i am begining to think the story i was told as a kid is coming true, someone showed me on here a photo of 2 white copo's in front of the glockner chevrolet show room?
it sparked an old memory or tale that 2 brothers bought these cars? could the 142850 be the other sister car? its to close not to be? but then who really knows, but they are so close its chilling to say the least, should i post a photo of my cowl tag?, im scared to post the VIN but not sure why im scared, maybe someone will make a clone of it, ive ben warned about these new type of 69 camaro bodys that they are putting together with old cowl tags and VIN&quot;S ???
let me know
and thank you again.

[ronnieredline]

hey stefano,
i love the humor, congrats by the way!!!!
your the first on here anyway to ask for it, hhhaaa
nope not selling it, im keeping it for the sole memories of when i was a kid, no monentary value concerned,its all about when you were younger huh? other guys either sold there cars or beat the windshields up and the car to, just because it didnt run, i wasnt like that, i fixed what was wrong and went on.
i have a respect for machinery and the likes,if put together right it will work, but then their are design flaws in all of them huh?

[Stefano]

Don't be afraid my son.......post all pictures into the lite.

142850 is Fathom Green on Green. The VIN is lower than your car and the trim tag is 10A.

[ronnieredline]

if you wait i will go and take a photo of the VIN and the cowl tag
let me know
im up so late and get up so early , only to work on houses in the mud, man what a strain on the body, but i love houses as much as i love old cars to, im torn between the two.

[ronnieredline]

whats the VIN on 142850?

[ronnieredline]

hey stefano?
the VIN'S anr't consecutive but the body numbers are.

[enio45]

I dont think you should be seeing a C before the MN - as far as i know the rear end for the late cars had the stamped C as well as the 70 rears for the 70 camaro's.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: enio45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dont think you should be seeing a C before the MN - as far as i know the rear end for the late cars had the stamped C as well as the 70 rears for the 70 camaro's.

</div></div>

I believe this to be true as well, the 'C' prefix on the rear makes sense and the location of the 'C' is consistent with a factory stamping. In other words, the 'C' should not be part perfectly in line with the BE, as I don't believe the gang holder could fit the prefix character. The '70 rears are indeed stamped this way, the 'C' is off on its own.

From what you've told us, albeit difficult to read sometimes due to the size of the paragraphs, it looks like you have a COPO car. The body number is actually a better indicator than the VIN in this case!

Welcome to the site, you'll find everything you need to know here!

[ronnieredline]

here are some more pic's

[ronnieredline]

i cannot figure out how to set the date on my camera, these were taken about 2 months ago, but i cant get the date right, its a canon power shot A560, anyone know how to set it? im not that good with it, i just learned how to use the macro button on it for close up's.

i will try to fix or set it. the time is right but the date is wrong?? if you fix the date it messes up the time and if you fix the time it messes up the date?? what is this a leap year camera or something???
sorry for the mess up.

[ronnieredline]

thanks marlin
i will do better with the paragrphs.
i did post a photo of my body number, its a photo of the whole cowl tag, look at the pic's, i have some of the crank,block and cam, but the cam i dont think has a chance at belonging to the engine. it needs a part number not just a 427 and a FN right? these are in storage , not kept in the chicken coop with the block. they do look alot better in shape,

i do have a excellant pic of the VIN but im to shaky to show it, i dont know why but its like my cars social security number, these days who knows what someone could do with it???

i a used micrometer on the crank, the mains are .010 the rods are .030, bummer i dont think i can use it because im not sure if they make a rod bearing under .030 do they? my luck they dont. is this even the right crank casting number?
thanks for the reply.

[ronnieredline]

holy toledo bat man!!!
i just noticed in the photo with the cowl tag, it has a orange &quot;T&quot; under it, is this one of the paint stampings ive seen on alot of restored cars?? one of the PBT paint stamps??
ive never seen it till now!!! wow.

[ronnieredline]

next to the 427 stamping, it looks like an &quot;HP&quot; upside down, is that a faint part number off to the right?
this is regarding the camshaft end photo.
thank you

[iluv69s]

ok..what is the factory plug on the cowl??? I seem to remember seeing that on one of my cars I scrapped years ago....or is my memory going....

great story...what a shame about the block..those d*** chickens!! Is the block salvagable??

again good luck !!

[ronnieredline]

i have another question, its about the dash in my car?
if the clock is taken out from the center of the dash, and you look inside, there are two clips on the back of the dash, not even part of the clock, i know how its mounted but look farther down , one on both sides in the center?,

they dont attach to anything in the car? there just there, one on each side of the middle of the dash if you were looking at the back of it? is there something missing that these clip into?
there is nothing on the metal part of the dash for them to mate to?
also on my car is another mystery , the clutch pedal had no hole in it for the safetly neutral switch linkage? anyone know anything about this, it is a 69 pedal for sure, but the hole wasnt there when i tried to put in the switch, the car hasnt had a neutral saftey switch since ive owned it,i did install a new one, and i could see a imprint or &quot;shadow&quot; of where the old one was, so i know it had one??

when i was about 20 i tried to start the car and alot of sparks came out from behind the dash down at the bottom, i found a yellow butt connector on the purple wires, i just reconected them and went on, never really thinking about it except it kept me from cruising for about an hour????

it does have the back up light switch, its a faded white or yellow color and wires going to it, and the column does turn back and forth up by the key switch, is this also for the reverse lock out stuff to? my friends always told me it was an automatic car, but no hole for the shifter handle?? i ignored them and went on.

i can get a photo of the original AM radio if someone wants to see it, it has 85% of the tag on it as well. i found it stuffed in my bolt bin along with a radio for a 80 model camaro??? my 83 Z28 has the factory one in it but i dont know what this one goes to???
hmmm
thanks again for any and all input.
i will check back later.
thank you all

[ronnieredline]

hello
yes i think this block is salvagable, the hole for the cowl hood i have is just above the fuse box, the hood is stamped 42, i never even knew it was there, i was talking to doug perry and he said while i was on my phone, to look for it, i said i cant see it, theres to much insulation in the way,

immediatly he said no no no, look outside in the engine compartment, just above where the wires go into the firwall, i looked and there it was, then with him on the phone i went to the storage place and yanked out some wires from a drawer in storage. here they are i said, he said do they have a fat grommet on them, i said yes about the size of a nickel.

congratulations again he said, then he asked where did you get those wires, i said, i took them off of the car when i was a kid, they didnt go to anything, the engine side is only about 12&quot; long but the fuse side is all there. i told him they go to something now i said hhaaa hhhaaaaa.

doug is really nice, i had him on the phone for about 2-3 hours, we went from the block to the tranny to the rear diff and marks on the car to hold off valves to a valve under the drivers seat on the frame to a fuel line to brackets to alternators to starters and on and on we went, i lost his call 3-4 times whenever i went under the car, &quot;he said you must have alot of metal still in that car, you lose signal everytime you get under it dont ya&quot; i told him ive had it since it had 38000 on it and it now has 42 or 46000 im not sure.
its a neat storie, my best friend dave and I talked about these cars forever when he was alive.

doug also said &quot;when ever you want to sell that car...... &quot;call me&quot; i asked if i could call besides selling the car he said well yes you can. he's a cool cat.

have a great day
thanks for asking about the cowl hood wires.

[ronnieredline]

there is a funny looking plug for the oil line on my block,i cant tell if its steel or brass, it looks like steel, i will try a magnet, but is this correct for the oil line? it seems it would burn or melt the oil line to the console if it got to close???

i dont like the design, but see no other way to hook up the oil line? it is about 1&quot; size nut and the top of it is shaved on on both sides? and does fit an oil line brass nut?
please let me know
thank you

[ronnieredline]

im not sure if i should post this here or not, but i have a 396/375 for a 4 speed chevelle, it is coded &quot;JD&quot;. its a 4 bolt main, i got it as a kid and was going to use it for a 68 camaro i have, but know that i know there much better with the original car, im looking for the owner.
i can also read the VIN on it, it starts with a 33 or 38, i can give the rest if interested.
please let me know

[Salvatore]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ronnieredline</div><div class="ubbcode-body">well i threw mine away when i was a kid because i knocked them off getting to the broken dash pad, as i mentioned in my original storie, i dont know what would you take for them? id like 3 if possible, id give you 30 bucks incl shipping?
let me know
im trying to posts some photos, how the heck do you do it?? </div></div>Don't think that will buy them Ronnie but thanks anyhow. Sam

[ronnieredline]

i just bought 3 of them from a guy, 15.00 for all three, he says he has 6 more?
shipping and handling included.
thank you for your reply.
i guess things work out for a reason.
thank you sam.

[Salvatore]

You did good! I have more than $15.00 in just one. Go back and buy the rest of them Ronnie. They will not go bad and you can use them for SS or Z/28 cars.

[ronnieredline]

thank you sam
i think i will buy the rest of what he has.
i think i already have them in my other 69, but these wont work for a 68, there different.
but if i get them, then maybe i can help someone else down the road and help them find some.
these are probably hard to find.
im going to save them for someone, if i dont need them.
thank you

[ronnieredline]

hey sam?
if you took out the center clock of a 69 camaro, and looked down inside, or took off the lower steering column cover, without the steering column blocking your view , you can see these 2 clips that are fastened to the backside of the dash.
mine dont mate or clip into anything? there just clipped to the back of the plastic dash and dont clip into anything?
is there something im missing?
please let me know
thank you very much.

[ronnieredline]

these are metal clips that press onto the thin plastic fins on the back of the plastic dash housing that the speedo, tach and clock go into. mine dont match up with anything at all?

[Salvatore]

yes Ronnie they are rare. get them if you can. I will have to check on your question about the dash clips. I am sure sombody else here will chime on on that. There are alot of good guys on this Site. First Generation Addict (James), Rick Nelson,John Karvonen and Steve Shauger (Paceme) to mention a few. I would also take some of thse questions over to the CRG (Camaro Research Group) Just type in CRG on Yahoo search. Sam

[parkbrau]

Post a pic of that PoP. Post more pics of the car.

[ronnieredline]

im wanting to get the pop from the guy who helped me with the car yrs ago.
he says he still has it.
i have yet to get it from him, im trying to get more photos guys.
they will arrive

[m22mike]

I would make getting that POP your #1 priority, try some cash if need be. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Get the PoP, no matter what!

[BARRY]

more popcorn please

[Justbad Joe]

Who's this Doug Perry guy anyway? <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif
Joe

[parkbrau]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Justbad Joe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Who's this Doug Perry guy anyway? <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif
Joe </div></div> He wants the car. That's why he was on the phone with ronnie for coupla hours. Pure speculation on my part.

[Salvatore]

They don't call him the C O P O L O C O for nothing!

[ronnieredline]

hey guys
im busy slopping in the mud on a 12/12 roof, for those of you that dont know what that is, try standing ona roof that is a 45* angle in muddy boots. so im kinda busy working to pay for the bills.
geter done huh?
by the way doug perry is a very very good friend of jerry mc neish, they pal around together alot.
my 2 cents worth.
i working on the car a little at a time, this whole page of books on here got way ahead of me.
im going to get more pics soon k?
let ya know

[Justbad Joe]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Justbad Joe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Who's this Doug Perry guy anyway? <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif
Joe </div></div>
Just trying to get a rise out of Doug. I know Doug personally and he is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to COPOs. If he says it could be a copo it probably is. As far as him wanting to buy it, who wouldn't? Never hurts to ask.
Joe

[ronnieredline]

talked to doug on the phone, boy what we went through.

we checked it all out.hockey sticks on the quarters to cowl hood wires to well we covered it all , from the front bumper to the back, no kidding. he found stuff on the car that was copo only and i never even knew it was there, he made me tell him first, he said look here for something, i said, i see something and he said what does it say, i told him and yup he confirmed it, then on to the next item again and again.

his words on the phone:
&quot;congratulations it is a copo, go ahead have fun with it&quot;
he is a really nice guy, really helped me out, i talked to him probably 6 months ago?
he was comvinced. i was like what???

[ronnieredline]

hi guys
does anyone know if the oil line adapter for the 427 in a copo is brass or steel?
mine is steel, not brass, ive had it in the block since the chicken coop days and thats a long time, it looks like the repro kind but it has had yrs of service, scarred up a little, but appears to be steel to me???? is there a protector for the black oil line that i have? it looks like a replacement since its black, shouldnt they be white nylon? seems it would burn against the manifolds or headers???
lemme know
and thank you again.
lemme know please.

[Unreal]

If you are talking about the adapter for the oil pressure sender, it is brass. As for the oil line protector, if you are talking bout the wire to the oil pressure sender, I'm pretty sure it should just have a black sleeve as thermal protection. There's a clip that attaches to the aftmost manifold bolt, to keep it away from the manifold.

What are you talking about when you say, 'hockey sticks on the quarters,&quot; and what is &quot;COPO&quot; about them? Not challenging, just curious.

[x77-69z28]

ronnie, i think you are talking about the oil pressure line. the originals are black, aftermarket are white. sounds like a cool car. post some pics will ya!

[Dave Rifkin]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: x77-69z28</div><div class="ubbcode-body">sounds like a cool car. post some pics will ya! </div></div>

I agree, this thread is now at 10 pages and hardly any shots of the car; c'mon you have to know that we all love to see pictures of these cool cars!

[ronnieredline]

ok ok ok
i will try to get some photos of the car this weekend.
about the &quot;hockey stick&quot; quarters, doug perry ask me to look for the hockey stick stamping in the door opening to see if they were original or replacements. there is nothing COPO about the quarters, doug was feeling the car out by phone to see what was original and all. most everything was original on it.

there original, as per the 42 stamp for the week on the corner under the trunk lid, and also he had me crawl in the trunk to see if there was a &quot;bracket&quot; above the center of the wheel wells, he said most of the time when quarters are replaced they wont have the hockey stick stamp and the bracket inside is gone, because the body man doesnt want to mess with it.mine also has this bracket on each side. most of the sheetmetal does have a 42 or 43 sometimes hard to read it but most of it is stamped with the original week of the car.

the drivers door has 2 stampings on inside the door, behind the door panel on the metal door. it has one at the bottom which doesnt match up, but one at the top does match up with the car?? the pass side does have only one stamping, it matches the upper stamp on the drivers door. i think they scrambled to get this car together i really do, they grabbed whatever they could to ship this thing out, alot of it comes into play, like a june rear cast 12 bolt, but assembled in oct 30 ??? its very possible but this car must have gotten stuff from the bottom of the barrel for 69 and the top of the barrel so to speak from 70.

like a 5661 muncie casting?? but a 69 assemble date?? they were grabbing everything they could to put this car together, i bet even corporate doesnt know what they did, because being assembly line workers, they knew what worked and what wouldnt, so they must have said, hey, go get that one it will work, or use this one its the same, the buyer will never know???
i can see it being said.

like i said doug and i were all over this car on the phone.
as for photos, i will try to get them, but if you look up the past photos of this car i posted, it is exactly the same, only in the photo it has the holes for the SS emblems, that were suggested to me, put on by the dealer to sell it as a 396 SS car to fool the insurance companies, as they were catching on fast.

maybe if the weather is nicer which it should be this weekend, then i can get some more photos of her [the car]

another question???
why is my oil pressure line exactly like a repro, but it is steel? im thinking the factory did this? are there any others who could chime in about this? why is mine steel???
thank you all on here for the info as well.

alot of people nicknamed this car as &quot;white lighting, as back in the day before i owned it, it was all white, the kid before me who owned it for a few months had the stripes put on it, or at least i think he did.

also when me and my late friend would go cruising up town which was back before the yr 2000, it was about 98 or so,people around town or sitting on the square would say &quot; here comes the super sport brothers&quot; hhaaaa hhaaaaaa we always cruised together, what a fun time it was, nothing to do, just try to find gas money for the beast &quot;feed the machines&quot;

thank you all for your reply's
i learn more everyday about it.
i have a 68 SS as well as a other 68 and 69 but the 68 SS i am talking about, i am looking for the block to it.
i thought i had seen a 68 396 block with the VIN of 365662?
i could sware ive seen it somewhere. now the tic-tac-toc clock and tach i have for it redlines at 5500 so was this a 350 hp motor? i also have the original console and guages for it, it also has the original wiring to it as well.
im just researching it as well. it is all factory as well, never been touched so to speak.
please let me know guys.
thanks again for all the help.
photos coming k??? the old plates on the car have been re-instated and now belong to the car once again. they were given to me with it in the trunk, im not sure they were original but id believe it if i was told so by the previous owner.

in the photo below, no she didnt want to sit on the car, but family insisted, we discussed it so to speak, notice she sits on the fender, NOT THE HOOD! ! ! ! hhhaaaaaaa hhhaaaaaaa. she likes the car as much as me. both married 1st time, no kids. i waited till i was almost 45, she is a few yrs younger but doesnt even act it, we get along quite fine.

[olredalert]

----Another theory about the SS emblems may be that a COPO as delivered appeared a bit mundane. With the SS emblems added the car got a bit of added pizazz sales wise. This may have happened if the car was ordered by a knowlegeable dealer for stock and if guys were looking for an SS model.....Bill S

[x77-69z28]

ronnie, i think what you are looking at on the drivers door is the extra indent for the late production cars so that gm could afix the blue mylar sticker with the production date and vin of the car, a 1970 regulation.

[ronnieredline]

hey bill
yes ive heard alot of why the SS emblems were added from either giving it some pizazz to snuffing the 427 and making it look like a 396 car , to the proof that some leaked out of the factory, with them on due to force of habit, some were never discovered until they were out of the factory years and years after. i guess we will never know, but there is proof enough that for some reason, some of the COPO cars had them, maybe it was force of habit since they did have all the SS suspension,brakes ect...
who knows????
thanks bill s for the input

[Keith Tedford]

When I bought my Chevelle new, it got the SS and Corvette 4 2 7 numbers added to the side by me. The other two COPO Chevelles out of Beare Motors got the same 427 numbers added to the sides of the hood bulges. The factories weren't just as sloppy as people are lead to believe. To be sure, there were mistakes but final line inspectors caught most of them. Most of the oddball stuff you see was probably added some time after the car left the factory.

[ronnieredline]

well i agree with you, but i have remodeled alot of houses in norwood and ive been told my numerous guys who were now policemen to hot rod guys to any other careers, they all told me one thing, that there was more drugs in that factory, more thefts and more stuff going wrong than you would ever believe.
they said more body parts and engines left out the back door on other shifts than went out the front???
they all said they saw it happen. witnessed it to!!!!
this is just my 2 cents worth, but way more than just a couple of guys have told me this, and they didnt even know each other , even when i asked them? they all still live in norwood and are in the same house that they lived in when they worked there.
it was spooky to go into contractors warehouse and see the steel tracks in the concrete left over from the norwood plant, i just stared at them, and thought my cars rolled along those tracks??? contractors warehouse was the norwood factory converted into a lumber yard.
thanks again
im not disagreeing just letting you know what ive been told from the assembly lineman that ive talked to.

[ronnieredline]

you know one thing really FREAKS me out, im a home builder/remodeler right well i am, sooo i go into contractors warehouse, look around and just stare at the floor, know what i saw?????
built in steel tracks in the floor!!!!
i just stared at them and stared some more.
these are the tracks that my cars rolled on, man what an experience. to think of what all went on in there????

contractors warehouse is the norwood plant converted in to a indoor lumber yard. they went belly up, came out of it, and now i dont know what is there probably nothing id say.??
still spooks me to no end, the history of it all.!!!!!!!
think about it,if your into your cars as much as me, think about looking at the walls and floor and so on, what a chilling experience of history. all the noises and writing on cars to communicate with someone down line or smells or just all the factory stuff going on what a history to experience. if i can ever go back in time, im gonna!!!!!! with lottery numbers for tattoo's ! ! ! ! hhhaaaaa hhaaaaaaaaa

[Unreal]

Ronnie, you are repeating yourself, repeating yourself. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

[ronnieredline]

thanks &quot;unreal&quot;, i had to have that brought to my attention, seems im working to much on this new house, im trying to get it done, and the weathers bad to boot.
i hope i dont repeat myself to much, i might build another house exactly like it right next to it. hhaaaa hhhaaaaa
hopefully i will come to my senses and stop repeating myself.
thanks again.
reason being i did that, is because i thought i was sending it to a personal mailbox on this site but found out i was putting it on the same post.
oh well.
thanks again

[ronnieredline]

hi guys
i glass bead blasted my oil line adapter that i took of the block before it went to the shop, it is brass, it was so aged that it looked gray, a magnet didnt stick and when i blasted it, it cleaned up a nice brass color???
it is scarred up from not using a correct socket though, but id say its pretty much original for sure, so is the big plug next to it, but its steel for sure.
thanks again

[ronnieredline]

hi guys
might be wrong for this site, but my dad has a 73 vette stingray , 350 auto, and he might want to sell it, he mentioned it a while back.
i know for sure without a doubt that its a numbers matching vette, he owned it way before i bought my car, and he said it was one owner, he knows the owner, and it never was worked on at all, he has everything to it from the factory. it has about 50-60 thousand miles on it.
just throwing it out there. he and I are wondering what its worth to price fairly???
thanks again

[Carleen]

http://www.camaroclubsweden.com/images/smilies/ttiwop.gif

[ronnieredline]

good grief carleen
look at page 10 of my post.
what else do you guys want? a playboy spread photo of my car?
i gave photos of all the stuff i have at this time, all the rest is at the shop.
hope you all dont go on strike what would we do???
what is it?
is it the pay not high enough?
is it the working conditions.
is it the govt?????
oh i know, its the taxes right???
i will do what i can!! ! !
hhaaaa hhaaaaaaaaa
anyway thanks for the reply
i will get more photos.

[x Baldwin Motion]

wow, there's an hour I won't get back.

Good luck with the car, love the wedding photo!


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&amp;Number=25654&amp;filename= wedding%20photo%20of%20us%20and%20the%20car.jpg

[ronnieredline]

thank you for the compliment baldwin! ! !
look at the cowl hood it is original with the 42nd week stamp on it, with gm fenders put on it 20 yrs ago, look at the grill it was silver, but i could only get a black one back then?? its what the counter guy told me? this isnt a repop grill, it came from the dealer and it fit very very nice.
i hate repops
the thing is, this is enamel, its never ever been waxed look for the shine on the curve of the cowl hood.
this guy was good, never even buffed it. this is no lie,
the day of the wedding was very very overcast and no sun what so ever.
notice im trying to pull her of the car with my other hand ?? oh well you cant have it all huh? she loves the car as much as i do.
i will get better pics as soon as the weather is better.
thank you to all

[ronnieredline]

well here goes guys..........
i contacted the guy who has my pop plate.
he is behind in his bills........
he wants 5000 for my POP plate ! ! ! ! ! ! !
i am so pissed off it isnt even funny.
seems he has been watching this site, he is a member of this site.

he told me he has read it all on here.

he has read it all fella's !!!!!!!!!!
now he wants 5000 for the POP plate.
i can't tell which one is him????

if the guy reading this, has my pop plate, why not just give it to me? i don't have 5000 for it.
i have a feeling i will never get it now.
if your reading this, i would prefer a cheaper price, just like i asked you in person.

why do you have to hold it for ransom? it does you no good, im not paying 5000 for it, just like i told you in person, before you said you would give it to me, now you want 5000 for it?
whats with the money for it now thing?
i know your reading this, i can see you right now ! ! !
like i asked you over the phone, please sell it to me cheaper, or i will have to hold off and never buy it, i paid you to rust proof the car when i was a kid, help me with the windshield replacement, paint the car,etc..... i paid for the the whole deal faithfully.

now you want 5000 for it?? this isnt fair at all.
i cant believe this........
you told me on the phone way back years ago that you would give it to me, and now over the phone you want 5000 for it?
greed buddy, please dont let it get ahold of you, it makes you look bad.
please work something out with me ok?

anyway, you all have the story now, i dont know his screen name
but i know he has read everything i have posted on here and seen the photos as well.
please let me have it or sell it to me at a cheaper price ok?

these guys on here are smart people, they will figure out who you are and so will i. the thing is i know who you are and where you live, but i dont know your screen name??? why hide, ive already done business with you in the past yrs ago, why not let yourself be known on this site???
you can run but you cant hide forever.
wonder what the people will think of you on here after we find out your screen name??

ronnieredline

[SuperNovaSS]

Wait, if he said he would give it to you years ago why didn't you take it back then?


Jason

[Mr70]

Quotes by ronnieredline:
<span style="font-style: italic">&quot;i dont know his screen name.&quot;
i know your reading this,i can see you right now ! ! !&quot;</span>


If you don't know his screen name,how can you see him right now?<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif

[olredalert]

-----Jason,,,I think if you go back over this whole saga, it was so long ago that 'ol Ronnie didnt attach much value to it. I think he felt a friend had it and he would get around to it later. We all know how that kind of thing goes sometimes. Sorry to hear about this, Ronnie, and even sorrier that it seems to possibly be a member here.....Bill S

[x77-69z28]

thats a shame ronnie. money does things to people. the guy i bought my z-28 from in 1978 just found the original dealer envelope and owners manuel for my car. he came to my house and gave it to me! when i contacted the orig owner of my 67 rs/ss camaro during its restoration a few years ago, he still had the original bill of sale filed away. he came to the house and gave it to me! he is still looking for the POP. a real car guy would want to see it with the car and not hold it for ransom.

[69 Post Sedan]

I think $5k is a crazy number for the POP. I do think it's worth something but if they are/were friends I would hope it would be a lot less than $5k. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/thumbsdown.gif

Good luck Ronnie...I hope it works out in your favor.

Kurt <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

[njsteve]

I could never understand why people do that. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/no.gif

I sold a 440 six barrel 1971 cuda ragtop (1 of 12 automatics) back in 1988. Eight years later I found the original set of carbs for the car. You can only imagine what that set was worth! I simply just gave them to the guy I sold the car to, who still had the car, because they belonged with the car.

Fast forward another 10 years or so and I found the original owners manual packet in a long forgotten drawer of paperwork. I called the same guy up and told him what I had found for him. After years of getting ripped off by other people he had bought cars from, he was somewhat jaded and asked me how much I wanted for it. I replied: &quot;lunch...and a tour of the collection so I could see the car again.&quot; We we both quite happy with the deal.

Similar story with my old 1971 440 six barrel, four speed Cuda ragtop (1 of 5). When I sold it in 1986, the buyer drove it home to Indiana from my house. He decided to leave the original numbers-matching four speed tranny behind with me because he didn't really want to carry it home, and it needed rebuilding anyway. A couple years later I called him up and reminded him of what I had. I told him to come on back and pick it up, no charge of course. I just wanted it reunited with the car.

What goes around comes around. In 1991, the entire dealer file folder on my 70 hemi charger R/T-SE showed up in my mailbox one day from a then-employee of the original selling dealership in NJ who had found it in the dumpster during a cleanup day. What do you think that was worth? It had every piece of paperwork you could imagine in it, down to the dealer prep work order documenting the set of headers installed by that same employee's father back in 1970 at the same dealership.

I'm a firm believer in the The Golden Rule.

[mockingbird812]

Good on you Steve. The way it<span style="font-weight: bold">*</span> should be.










































<span style="font-weight: bold">*</span>Steve omitted the fact that <span style="font-style: italic">&quot;lunch&quot;</span> was in Paris and only the Concorde would convey him there!! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif

[njsteve]

Ha! It was in New York! Just up the Joysey toynpike from me.

[mockingbird812]

sez u!

[AutoInsane]

Well the POP plate definitely has a value to you as the owner of the car. $5,000 sure is a high number. Perhaps the realistic price should be on the order of $500 ??

While I can understand your frustration I would try and keep up the communication with the guy who has the POP.

Good luck!!

[parkbrau]

That is bunk. Holding PoP hostage for 5K.

[iluv69s]

I am not sure of the circumstances, but I do not see the difference in selling the original protecto plate or selling the original motor to someone´s car. It is great that some people have given the original paperwork to a car to the owner free, including myself, but I have also paid dearly(gladly)for original documents for my prior cars.

Although 5k seems rather high for the protecto-plate, it definitely is worth a considerable amount as the only piece of actual documentation for your car.I do not know how much more your car is worth with the protecto-pate, but it definitely would make your car much rarer and desirable as a COPO with docs.

I would be saving my pennies and trying to arrive at the guys door with a cash offer. just my opinion...

Good Luck!!

[olredalert]

----Yes,,,The price is steep. The part to remember here, though, is (according to Ronnie) the POP was promised to him for nothing. A promise is a promise. Whoever you are out there, live up to your promise, and Ill bet if you do Ronnie would gladly help you out with your other problems if he can......Bill S

[njsteve]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: iluv69s</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am not sure of the circumstances, but I do not see the difference in selling the original protecto plate or selling the original motor to someone´s car.
</div></div>

The difference is that an engine has an intrinsic value to not only the car it belonged to, but to other cars as well. A POP is of value only to the car it belonged to originally.

If the present holder of the POP can't get Ronnie to buy it, there isn't really a market for it. No one out there is going to pay anywhere near that asking price for it.

[iluv69s]

I understand your point Steve, but,my point was that the protectoplate definitely has some value....

Although this is not the case with this car, I think that maybe the protecto-plate is very valuable to a car since a COPO with a non-original correct motor is worth more than a COPO with no motor...

and a COPO with a non-original protectoplate is worth no more than a COPO with no protecto-plate. This is the only protecto-plate in the world that is correct for this car. Many cars have changed hands for top dollar that have correct non-original motors. And it seems that the cars that bring all the money are the original cars <span style="font-weight: bold">with documentation</span>.

Did I just confuse everyone with this explanation??

I also agree if the fellow promised him the protecto-plate for his car back in the day, he should give it up free.

[ronnieredline]

well you see, he didnt really promise anything to me, he just said he would, now i know he has it because he wants money for it, 5000 to be exact.

i didnt go after it because he said he would give it to me about 5 yrs after i left it in his shop. back then i didnt even know what it was, i thought it was an old credit card or something who knew, i was about 20 or so.about a yr or so back i called him up and he said he had it, well you know what???

i am going to go look at it and make sure its even the right one? this is something that he should bring to light, first i have to have him prove it to me, that it is the right one, you see he should tell me what it says, i have the numbers from the POP plate on my engine, trans and etc....
so if he tells me what the numbers are on the POP plate and they match my engine and trans, then it would be the one i need, but he doesnt know for sure its even mine right??? i know for a fact he worked on alot of camaros and corvettes in his day.

one thing nobody knows on here but me, the VIN to the car, the numbers on the trans and most of you dont know the body number, you might because i have a photo of the cowl tag, but NO-ONE KNOWS THE VIN OR THE TRANS NUMBERS ON HERE AND YOU MIGHT THINK YOU KNOW THE ENGINE PAD NUMBERS, BUT DO YOU REALLY? HAVE YOU SEEN A PHOTO OF THEM? NOPE, BECAUSE THERE ISNT ONE. its been at the shop since ive discovered what was up with them ,and even they wont call me back now??? ive called them 3 times. next is a trip up there to see it or get the block back home, ive had it with service in this country, ive been ripped off by a drywaller and now a roofer, both of them just did it half ass for the money, no quality what so ever.

anyone wanna play poker with my POP plate? show me your hand because im not folding.

SO IF YOUR READING THIS, GIMME THE NUMBERS AND I WILL TELL YOU IF IT IS THE RIGHT ONE, PROVE YOUR POINT OR I DONT WANT IT! ! !

if you want 5000 grand for it, prove it first, or you dont have a thing to argue about. not a leg to stand on. its worthless to ou to even have it, especially if you dont know for sure its even mine???

if your reading this then put your POP plate where your mouth is and i will put my money where my mouth is.

maybe i should contact the police, if i can prove this is mine then he is kidnapping my POP plate ?? ! ! ! he never owned the car, what right does he have to it??
if its mine and i have the reciets for him working on my car and i can prove it went to my car, then he stole it while working on my car when i was a school kid, he knew i didnt care back then, he probably didnt know what he had until he read this whole post.
its ok, karma is a real skeleton in the closet buddy.

how about growing a set, and posting a photo of it on here???
you might just blow everyones mind huh?? try us and find out! ! !
if you want your money show me the proof,
now let me see it.
see ya

[ronnieredline]

hey iluv69s

im not sure what you meant , but i have the original trans and engine and rear diff for my car?
i didnt take it wrong, i just think you dont understand, im being nice , im not mad at you, i have everything to the car except the POP plate. so he has to give me the numbers to prove it.
so do i really even need the POP plate for 5000, uh lemme think uh NO!!! not for 5000 huh?
i think that i have it all except the small part, the POP plate,
so where does a guy draw the line ? ive been told i dont even need it appraised or certified because of all the stuff i have on and with the car? its to believable not to believe it??
lemme know what ya think k?
thanks

[sYc]

You said he was behind in his bills, which could translate into him about to lose everything. With that as a motive, I can see where at one point he said he would give you the POP, (when in a better financial situation), but now wants $$$ for it. Would any of us give up something of value when faced with a similar situation?


And BTW, if I were him, every time I read one of your rants, I would double the price.

[iluv69s]

Hey Ronnie....this thread alone proves that your car is absolutely real..although there will still be doubters. I would absolutely pay an authority(who´s naeme I cannot state here) to document your car before you do any resto work.

Because of the many fake COPOs out there people will always be skeptical. I believe with this documentation by a reknown authority, noone will doubt your car´s authenticity.

As far as the protecto-plate, I believe it would make your car just that more desireable over another COPO without docs. It seems the cars with all original drivetrain, correctly restored AND WITH REAL DOCS bring all the money. No-excuses cars.

I would get the Protecto-plate before having your car documented, because there are a bunch of fake protecto-plates out there also. Have the protecto plate documented also as the real thing. just my opinion...

also, I dont think you are serving yourself well by ranting so much about the curret possessor of your protecto-plate. Be cool and give it some time...maybe he will come to his senses and lower the price...kindness is priceless sometimes...

Good Luck

[al8apex]

there are other people besides the one you allude to that know their stuff ... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

regarding the rants, there is an old saying about honey and vinegar ...

[iluv69s]

Hey Jim,

I realize that there are other experts that probably know more, but the other experts are so unknown to the general public, that thier expertise is not valued as much...right or wrong. If I were selling ..or buying..a camaro, I would want the person who is by far, the leading authority on Camaro documentation. I am sure he has documented many many more Camaros than anyone. Probably atleast 10 fold.

In the Camaro world, if he says it is real, it does not matter if it is fake...people believe his word,right or wrong...that is where I would spend my money...whether I like the guy personally or not.

.....just my opinion....

[Jonesy]

Instead of having &quot;that guy&quot; come and and pay him money. Use the money towards getting the POP back. He's only going to tell you what you already know. The original POP is as good as his documenting the car.

[iluv69s]

unfortunately, without ´that guy` documenting the protecto-plate for me, I would not know an original protecto-plate from a fake...and I feel that I am very much more knowledgeable than the average Camaro fan....

for the 250 bucks that he charged me to document my car, I feel that his documentation is worth many times more than if I had the orignal protecto-plate for my car....

..anyone that is expert enough to tell if the protecto-plate is original does not really need the protecto-plate or´that guys´documentation to know that this car is real. His documentation is for those of us that cannot tell the good fakes from the real cars...

[iluv69s]

I hope that the opinions that this forum is offering this fellow member has nothing to do with personality clashes or whether we like the expert in question or not....

unfortunately, I feel that is not the case at times...

I am trying to give the best advice as to what I would do to better document and verify the authenticity of this car for the benefit of ´everyone´ in the future..not just the experts on this board...

Kinda of funny that someone can't say Jerry's name on here now. There are &quot;stories&quot; out there about ED C. saying cars was destroyed and they showed up. I have heard the same of Joel Rosen not documenting a car, then a week or two later the owners get a crazy offer on a car that is not a documented car. I just think not every one is perfect, especially me! JMO

[sYc]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JD502</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Kinda of funny that someone can't say Jerry's name on here now. There are &quot;stories&quot; out there about ED C. saying cars was destroyed and they showed up. I have heard the same of Joel Rosen not documenting a car, then a week or two later the owners get a crazy offer on a car that is not a documented car. I just think not every one is perfect, especially me! JMO
</div></div>


Ed C. and Joel have not been banned from this board. Jerry has, not once but twice.

[iluv69s]

I usually take the high road on these conversations, but why is it that when I mentioned Jerry M's name a few weeks ago, my post got deleted and I was PM'd to &quot;please not mention his name here as he has been banned&quot;....and a few days later I notice a thread here about SSR BOB which basically was a thread created to trash him??

So we can mention his name as long as we are trashing him??

I respectfully ask 'Can someone please tell me the rules here??'

Pete Rose was banned for life from baseball..every announcer in the world talks about him..and appreciates what he has done for the sport...

Love him or hate him, Jerry M has done a great service for this hobby in just the knowledge that he has brought forward through his research and his books...I believe his books have been a very valuable resource for many of us.

This owner of this COPO obviously knows about him as he has already used his resto. services..what is the big secret?

I know personally that him documenting my cars was a big part of the reason that helped sell them..

I am here just trying to give the best advice I can to a fellow member that is seeking advice...
Isnt that what this forum is all about???

Sorry if I have ruffled any feathers here...

..and sorry for going on a tangent on this thread...I hope the higher ups have the courage to not delete this..(or delete me for that matter...hehe)I have always admired and respected this site and it's members and am dearly greatful for all the help and knowledge I have recieved here.

respectfully, Max

[sYc]

We would rather there be no discussion, good or bad, about Jerry, but A. after being banned he posted under another username B. you, and a couple of others, after repeated PMs to not do so, continue to mention his name.

Though you may have have the upmost respect for him, some of us here do not share your opinion.

[al8apex]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: iluv69s</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I usually take the high road on these conversations, but why is it that when I mentioned Jerry M's name a few weeks ago, my post got deleted and I was PM'd to &quot;please not mention his name here as he has been banned&quot;....and a few days later I notice a thread here about SSR BOB which basically was a thread created to trash him??

So we can mention his name as long as we are trashing him??

I respectfully ask 'Can someone please tell me the rules here??'

Pete Rose was banned for life from baseball..every announcer in the world talks about him..and appreciates what he has done for the sport...

Love him or hate him, Jerry M has done a great service for this hobby in just the knowledge that he has brought forward through his research and his books...I believe his books have been a very valuable resource for many of us.

This owner of this COPO obviously knows about him as he has already used his resto. services..what is the big secret?

I know personally that him documenting my cars was a big part of the reason that helped sell them..

I am here just trying to give the best advice I can to a fellow member that is seeking advice...
Isnt that what this forum is all about???

Sorry if I have ruffled any feathers here...

..and sorry for going on a tangent on this thread...I hope the higher ups have the courage to not delete this..(or delete me for that matter...hehe)I have always admired and respected this site and it's members and am dearly greatful for all the help and knowledge I have recieved here.

respectfully, Max </div></div>

IMHO (&lt;MY humble opinion) if someone doesn't know enough about what they are buying they shouldn't be buying it.

If it makes you feel better because (I am going on a long stretch here to make a point) a note from your mommy (that is the stretch) says it is ok or anyone else you pay to appraise whatever, then you are in the hobby for the wrong reasons.

Yes, there are MANY crooks out there (coff RG 69 Z28 rebody coff) and someone will always be stretching &quot;facts&quot; to fluff up whatever they are selling.

Bottom line is (IMHO again) do your homework BEFORE you pull the trigger. IF that homework involves the services of someone that may know more than you about a particular subject, certainly enlist them to assist you.

Getting back to the thread topic, I hope everything works out well, people do funny things when they smell $$$$$$

[firstgenaddict]

well said Jim.
I for one wish prices would subside as it would take some speculators out of the markets and allow the ones who truly enjoy the cars back in...
However in dealing with these high end cars people want FACTORY PAPER, whether it has matching numbers or not. What most laypeople people do not realize is there is an awful LOT of fake paper, which is why the verification of paperwork is so critical to Chevrolets.
JAG

[iluv69s]

Jim I am a bit surprised by some of your statements.....

---&quot;IMHO (&lt;MY humble opinion) if someone doesn't know enough about what they are buying they shouldn't be buying it.&quot;

I figure that is the purpose to enlist an expert..to educate yourself about what you are buying. I paid many realtors and building inspectors for thier opinion before buying the properties that I own. I feel anyone with the cash has the right to buy whatever they want...this is America isn´t it? Do they need to be an expert?

---&quot;If it makes you feel better because (I am going on a long stretch here to make a point) a note from your mommy (that is the stretch) says it is ok or anyone else you pay to appraise whatever, then you are in the hobby for the wrong reasons.&quot;

I bought my first 67 RS Camaro when I was 15 years old and have since owned over 200 early Camaros from six bangers to a real Zl-1. I think I qualify as a &quot;real&quot; Camaro fan and that I am in the hobby for the right reason. I have never paid anyone to apraise or document one of my cars <span style="font-weight: bold">before</span> buying it. But, if I wanted to buy a high dollar car and was in doubt of its authenticity, I sure would feel better having an experts opinion..I think that is the norm in many hobbies..art, antiques, collectibles and cars also. Do you really believe that statement??
I am sure that many of the people here on this forum have paid an expert before buying a car...be it Marti report, Galen Govier, etc. So which of us fellow members are you refering to that are in the hobby for the wrong reason? With the plethora of fake cars,I feel it woul be rather stupid not to.

---&quot;IF that homework involves the services of someone that may know more than you about a particular subject, certainly enlist them to assist you.&quot;

But you just stated that someone that does this is in the hobby for the wrong reason...I´m confused...do you condone this or no??

I have always tried to be 100% respectful to you and everyone else on this board. I am a bit surprised by your sarcasm toward me..I apologize if I am misunderstanding your statement/attitude.

At this point I will take the high road and refrain from pettiness that persists here at times...

as before, |I wish the best luck to the owner of this car and if he wants my honest opinion &quot;without caring about personality clashes&quot;, he can PM me...


just my humble opinion...

[iluv69s]

Tom, I apologize for mentioning his name after You asked me not to. I hope you understand my confusion when a few days later a thread was started that was soley about him to the point where there were even pictures posted of him.
As far as respecting him..I could care less either way...I do not know him that well. I was going by my personal experiences and I was only trying to help a fellow member...

But , I assure, I will not mention him again here.

Max

[iluv69s]

JAG....


with all due respect,I am confused by your statement also....

--&quot;However in dealing with these high end cars people want FACTORY PAPER, whether it has matching numbers or not. What most laypeople people do not realize is there is an awful LOT of fake paper, which is why the verification of paperwork is so critical to Chevrolets.
JAG&quot;

what part of Jim´s statement was well said?? It sounds like you are agreeing with me and not him that it is a great idea to get an expert to document a car and the adjoining paperwork. Let´s face it, because all of us are not experts. And I believe that the average laymen have every right to buy a Camaro as much as the experts here.

just my humble opinion...max

[TDW]

If he has the POP for your car, it belongs to you. It sounds like he stole it from you many years ago. If that is the case, that makes him a low life thief in my opinion. Go get YOUR property back.

[al8apex]

I will have to apologize, apparently my typing of words did not come out as well as my mind was processing the info, no flames were intended, just cutting to the basics was the intent. I will stand by my statements as I believe the intent was there, and I think that others can see that as well.

IMHO, anyone that has owned over 20, 50, 100 or more cars of any make / model / etc should know them intimately. They should be an expert in their own right and know right from wrong.

If I doubted a car, I would trust my instinct and I would stay away. There would be no reason IN MY MIND to want to buy it. Again, MY viewpoint.

All the names you stated above are people that have educated themselves and created businesses around their education and experience.

I could get info from Ford <span style="font-weight: bold">if</span> I owned one. Having the copy from Ford would be as good in MY OPINION as anything else.

I could care less knowing if my Ford was one of 17 so equipped (or whatever). That being one of 17 so equipped does not make it worth any more. It does not make ME like it any more ... or any less.

BUT if I were one of those that NEEDED to know that info to tell stories with, I might want to know and therefore would pay to know and have a piece of paper so I can display with my car so onlookers can marvel at my luck and good fortune.

Those that know know.

This is not intended to be a flame or sarcastic reply in any stretch, it is merely an explanation of my prior post.

[al8apex]

This is a Camaro owner that needed the services of SOMEONE smarter than he was BEFORE he bought .....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1968-Chev...a#ht_719wt_1167 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1968-Chevy-Camaro-Convertible-Z28-Very-Low-Reserve-/110658374426?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&amp;hash=item19c3c0cb1a #ht_719wt_1167)

[smallblockhero]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: al8apex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is a Camaro owner that needed the services of SOMEONE smarter than he was BEFORE he bought .....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1968-Chev...a#ht_719wt_1167 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1968-Chevy-Camaro-Convertible-Z28-Very-Low-Reserve-/110658374426?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&amp;hash=item19c3c0cb1a #ht_719wt_1167) </div></div>

Petes Z-28 is well known. To try and pass this car off as the Estes Z Conv is ridiculous. A little research will show it as the car below. not some poor red copy.


http://www.camaros.net/showroom/data/500/medium/68_z28_conv.jpg

[iluv69s]

I saw that car also..I wonder about the paperwork he claims to have...Apparently the original paperwork from the real Estes car was stolen from Al M. when he owned the car.

Back to the original thread..any luck with the protecto-plate ???

[Salvatore]

No matter what the car is ugly IMO.

[iluv69s]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: [email protected]</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No matter what the car is ugly IMO. </div></div>


I cannot beleive he chose green..and also that it is not an RS....It would be much cooler in blue..or black !!

But I cannot say the car is ugly no...but definitely could be better looking....

[ronnieredline]

hello all

good grief, i am sorry to have posted on here about certain things, numbers and names and so on.
i feel i have brought up something that should have been left buried down deep.
the thing is, its like digging a new foundation for a new home, the next thing you know youve dug up something that someone else put there yrs ago and now you get blamed for it because YOU DUG IT UP???
im sorry to all, im sorry to &quot;that guy&quot; im sorry to anyone i offended and if i even did so.
this car has always done this anywhere ive taken it.
all i wanted was some help and ive dug up seriously hurt feelings in this registry.
man i dont know what to do, i guess its my fault ????
i started it so maybe i should end it, i think im going to stay away from here for a while and let things cool off.
if i was younger man i would jump right in, but now im alot older and im going to back off guys.
this is to much for me.
i had a hunch or gut feeling this would happen and i guess the finger is being pointed at me, if not well no harm no foul.
i dont know what to do.
im not going to post any more photos on here, no more numbers and no pop plate, that is if i get it back, we are still talking and the last time i talked to him we were joking and making fun of each other that we even joked about the point of meeting for dinner and talking it over.
thats as far as i got.
sometimes i wish i could start over with this car, yet ive wished that so many times with it because this always happens.
each and everytime i bring this car up no matter how smooth it starts out, there is usually a fist fight over it or arguiing.
it never fails, even after almost 20 yrs in storage.
i guess i will bow out and let it be.
i also got a call from my sister in kentucky about a guy wanting to &quot;just come and see it&quot; well i turned that down to, then i got yelled at from her over it because its her neighbor????
i cant trust anyone as to where the public storage is that i keep it and i dont even want to show anyone either.
i took this thing to a show in my home town years and years ago, i ripped out 2nd place with it and didnt even expect to win anything at all, i didnt even armour all the tires, just drove it in??? guess what i won???? a big bottle of armour all ! ! ! !
then the 2 judges got into a fight over it, because one thought i deserved first placed because of the milage and the original conditon it was in. the one guy jacked the others guys jaw and it was bad enough for a 19 or 20 yr old kid[myself] to say to them &quot;hey hey guys its nothing to fight about&quot;.
to old guys duking it out over this thing called a car???
i got more to say but im bowing out as of now.
thank you for all the nice things and info all on here have given me.
i will take it with a grain of salt but, i feel ive drank the whole salt shaker.
i guess its my fault [AGAIN].
thank you all
redline, maxed out.
that is all.

[x Baldwin Motion]

too much Armor All and you wouldn't have gotten a second glance

[GMC_Typhoon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ronnieredline</div><div class="ubbcode-body">hello all

good grief, i am sorry to have posted on here about certain things, numbers and names and so on.
i feel i have brought up something that should have been left buried down deep.
the thing is, its like digging a new foundation for a new home, the next thing you know youve dug up something that someone else put there yrs ago and now you get blamed for it because YOU DUG IT UP???
im sorry to all, im sorry to &quot;that guy&quot; im sorry to anyone i offended and if i even did so.
this car has always done this anywhere ive taken it.
all i wanted was some help and ive dug up seriously hurt feelings in this registry.
man i dont know what to do, i guess its my fault ????
i started it so maybe i should end it, i think im going to stay away from here for a while and let things cool off.
if i was younger man i would jump right in, but now im alot older and im going to back off guys.
this is to much for me.
i had a hunch or gut feeling this would happen and i guess the finger is being pointed at me, if not well no harm no foul.
i dont know what to do.
im not going to post any more photos on here, no more numbers and no pop plate, that is if i get it back, we are still talking and the last time i talked to him we were joking and making fun of each other that we even joked about the point of meeting for dinner and talking it over.
thats as far as i got.
sometimes i wish i could start over with this car, yet ive wished that so many times with it because this always happens.
each and everytime i bring this car up no matter how smooth it starts out, there is usually a fist fight over it or arguiing.
it never fails, even after almost 20 yrs in storage.
i guess i will bow out and let it be.
i also got a call from my sister in kentucky about a guy wanting to &quot;just come and see it&quot; well i turned that down to, then i got yelled at from her over it because its her neighbor????
i cant trust anyone as to where the public storage is that i keep it and i dont even want to show anyone either.
i took this thing to a show in my home town years and years ago, i ripped out 2nd place with it and didnt even expect to win anything at all, i didnt even armour all the tires, just drove it in??? guess what i won???? a big bottle of armour all ! ! ! !
then the 2 judges got into a fight over it, because one thought i deserved first placed because of the milage and the original conditon it was in. the one guy jacked the others guys jaw and it was bad enough for a 19 or 20 yr old kid[myself] to say to them &quot;hey hey guys its nothing to fight about&quot;.
to old guys duking it out over this thing called a car???
i got more to say but im bowing out as of now.
thank you for all the nice things and info all on here have given me.
i will take it with a grain of salt but, i feel ive drank the whole salt shaker.
i guess its my fault [AGAIN].
thank you all
redline, maxed out.
that is all. </div></div>I don't have a clue what you are trying to convey(Then again,I never did) but good luck anyways.

[AutoInsane]

Redline... what the hell are you talking about?? I hope you stick around... the story on your car has been an interesting one.

Glad you are talking to the guy with your POP. He sounds like he is a decent person... Give him some $$ and call it a day. He seems like he could use a few bucks so you can think of it as helping someone out and getting your POP!

Now... enough of the Yenko County Housewives drama .... lets talk about cars!!!!

[Alabamcam]

Keep in comming! Only had time to read half of post but hey opinions are like @$$, we all have one. I'll continue to follow like Jonesy, more pop corn, oh and I need to make a beer run. Be back in a few.