Opinions on Stampings

[talwell]

I located and purchased a 1969 Camaro 396/375hp car that is supposed to have the original born with engine and trans.

The trim tag shows the car as a 02D - 4th week of February car. The engine is stamped T0210JH - Feb 10th 396/375hp Manual Special High Performance and the vin is stamped by the oil filter. I have not gotten a chance to get the trans or rear stampings yet but will have them in a few days.

What are your opinions on the pad and vin stampings? I am attaching the trim tag as well showing it as a X22 garnet red w. 711 base interior. The tag appears to have good rivets and does not appear to have been removed.

http://www.payko.com/jh_pad.jpg

http://www.payko.com/trimtag.jpg

http://www.payko.com/vin.jpg

[iluv69s]

I´m sure the experts here will chime in, but I would get ahold of Kurt S from CRG...or maybe he will chime in here...

I will say that the pad stamp sure looks well aged...and also that is the clearest vin stamp I have seen...most that I have seen are barely legible...

but I am no expert on these stampings...

sounds like a cool car if it turns out to be real!! good luck !!

[David C.]

I have a picture of an original L78 motor stamped seven days past this one. A Norwood car as well. On the one I have, the head must have been in place for them to stamp as you can see the angle it was stamped at.

[olredalert]

-----A picture of the pad with just a bit of cleaning so as to try to judge the broach marks would help. Nothing too abrasive. Id have to say that things look OK so far, though......Bill S

[talwell]

I will see if I can clean up the pad or even get the head off and take a few more pics. The pad I feel pretty confident about - the vin stamping does look rather deep to me. I does show the typical varying depth where the lower portion the stamping is not as deep as the top but I am still suspect that it appears too deep.

[olredalert]

----The depth isnt an issue with me, but I guess someone else may disagree.....Bill S

[talwell]

On the VIN stampings by the filter - is it common for them to be so straight - meaning that all the charactors line up so well? Also, was it ever seen where they would use an &quot;I&quot; instead of the &quot;1&quot; like they would do with other stampings? I have reviewed a few other vin stampings and the one thing that I see that is consistant is that the are all inconsistant <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

[iluv69s]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: talwell</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I have reviewed a few other vin stampings and the one thing that I see that is consistant is that the are all inconsistant <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif </div></div>


I agree...you should try to compare to other blocks within the same time frame..there seems to be &quot;somewhat&quot; more consistency with motors stamped within a few days.

also the trans VIN stamp should have been stamped with the same fonts/characters...(I am not sure if that is so on 100% of the cars)...if they are different, I would be suspicious...

[iluv69s]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: David C.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a picture of an original L78 motor stamped seven days past this one. A Norwood car as well. On the one I have, the head must have been in place for them to stamp as you can see the angle it was stamped at. </div></div>

How about posting a pic?

[David C.]

This is an L78 we just purchased and sold recently. The engine is being rebuilt, I can get a vin picture when it gets back here.
rusty l78 engine code (http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o195/fbodycrazy/Rusty%20L78/whtl78.jpg)

[olredalert]

----The VIN stampings by the oil filter were gang stamped so &quot;yes&quot; they would generally line up. I think that sometimes the gang holder as well as the individual letters would become worn and allow for a small amount of misallignment, but not much. All bets are off if there is a factory restamp done, although thats not the case here.
----Is and 1s did appear to be interchangeable to some degree.....Bill S

[talwell]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: David C.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is an L78 we just purchased and sold recently. The engine is being rebuilt, I can get a vin picture when it gets back here.
rusty l78 engine code (http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o195/fbodycrazy/Rusty%20L78/whtl78.jpg) </div></div>

David,

This is most certainly a restamp - it is missing all the patina that an original non-rebuilt motor should have. By the way, I am being very sarcastic - that is a good example of what a stamping should look like. I would really like to see the vin pad and compare them.

[iluv69s]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: talwell</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: David C.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is an L78 we just purchased and sold recently. The engine is being rebuilt, I can get a vin picture when it gets back here.
rusty l78 engine code (http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o195/fbodycrazy/Rusty%20L78/whtl78.jpg) </div></div>

David,

This is most certainly a restamp - it is missing all the patina that an original non-rebuilt motor should have. By the way, I am being very sarcastic - that is a good example of what a stamping should look like. I would really like to see the vin pad and compare them. </div></div>

I am surprised by the misalignment of the letters on this block...not that I have not seen that before..but not too often... or is it the angle of the pic maybe?? or just my old age and vision failing me??

[iluv69s]

Todd..for what it is worth..I like your stamping better than David,s....the pitting and aging on your deck looks very similar to my MO 302 block..and also reminds me of the pic of the COPO block that was posted here a while back..it was the car that had people arriving with trailers trying to buy it out from underneath the agreed upon purchaser...I believe it was missing the rear and trans..and then apparently reunited with the original car later.....anyone have that pic of that deck?

[Denis]

Here's the VIN stamp by the oil filter on my 02D-built L78:

http://67z28.net/L78/images/IMG_3754-1.jpg

http://67z28.net/L78/images/IMG_3754-2.jpg

[69 Post Sedan]

The VIN in question is very different from the picture I have of one although 50k cars in between them. One thing I notice is that the numbers are much farther apart than the picture below and it's upside down but that may be common?

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn2/brkyard/Parts/COPO-CleanedSideViewVIN-1-Copy.jpg

[David C.]

The rusty L78 I posted a picture of had been sitting outside in Rochester NY since 1975. It was by far one of the worse condition cars I have ever seen. However... The vin stamp next to the oil filter was clear as day, even the paint held up quite well on it. Most we see are like what others have mentioned, very light. Unfortunately Bob took a photo of it and has probably tossed it by now. When the motor comes back from the machine shop I can get better photos of both stampings for you.

Was your engine rebuilt at all? Usually the bellousing would have some orange overspray on it from the factory. Don't take my word for it though as I am not very certain. The car I have posted about lost it's original tranny long ago.

[iluv69s]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 69 Post Sedan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The VIN in question is very different from the picture I have of one although 50k cars in between them. One thing I notice is that the numbers are much farther apart than the picture below and it's upside down but that may be common?

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn2/brkyard/Parts/COPO-CleanedSideViewVIN-1-Copy.jpg </div></div>

Another &quot;for what it is worth&quot;...although I do not recall seeing a 69 Camaro as such, my 70 Z that I sold just a few years ago had the characters spaced apart very similar to your block.. I will search for a pic and post it when I get home.

[RamAirDave]

Got a better pic of the trim tag?

[talwell]

On this same car - would it have been normal to have a rear axle that is coded &quot;bs&quot;? The date range is correct being an 0204 but was not sure if the 3:31 locker would have been the axle that is expected to be in this car.

[69 Post Sedan]

Here is a Feb. 4th, 1969 Nova JH stamp for reference.

Kurt

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn2/brkyard/Parts/100_1327.jpg

[David C.]

I think the customer could have made any choice on the rear end gearing. Pretty safe to say since that date is close to your car's build that it is most likely the born with rear. Our Watkins Glen L78 pace car still has it's born with BT. The rusty L78 I posted a pic of has a BV.

[Kurt S]

I remember this car on ebay last month. Sorry, but I think it is a restamped block. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/frown.gif
Axle could be the original (standard ratio was 3.55, but 3.31 is pretty common). Date is OK.
I'll reserve comment on that tag pic.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: David C.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On the one I have, the head must have been in place for them to stamp as you can see the angle it was stamped at. </div></div>Actually, all BB's were stamped before the head is installed. That's why some BB stamps are partly under the head.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I like that Nova block - very close to our '69 build date!

[69 Post Sedan]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like that Nova block - very close to our '69 build date! </div></div>

That motor came from northern WI. I sold it to a member here.

Kurt

[HiHorse]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kurt S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I remember this car on ebay last month. Sorry, but I think it is a restamped block. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/frown.gif
Axle could be the original (standard ratio was 3.55, but 3.31 is pretty common). Date is OK.
I'll reserve comment on that tag pic.

here it is on ebay, believe sold later with BIN of $15K http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayIS...e=STRK:MEWAX:IT (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=330526935730&amp;ssPageNam e=STRK:MEWAX:IT) </div></div>