Unrestored 1969 Yenko Camaro at Mecum

[StealthBird]

We all know the car, just wanted to post a link for everyone to see. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

http://www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_detail...ign=SC0511_F234 (http://www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_detail.cfm?LOT_ID=SC0511-107085&amp;utm_source=delivra&amp;utm_medium=email&amp;utm_cam paign=SC0511_F234)

Good luck with the sale! This has to be a hard one to let go...

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

[JTH74]

Beautiful car! I would expect this car do to some big numbers! Good luck with sale, this would be a hard one to let go of.

[Mr. Chevy]

Yep, that's Don's car.. He is a member here on the site.. Very nice guy and a very nice car!! I have seen it in person at one of the SuperCar Reunions....

Rich

[bergy]

Description says &quot;listed on the &quot;Supercar Registry&quot;. How does one verify that? Is the registry listed on this site somewhere? I'm just trying to figure out if my COPO cars made it on the &quot;list&quot;!

[AutoInsane]

Ok what is the guess for what it sells for???

My guess .... $340k

[1969z280]

Great Guy... Great Camaro! I hope it brings $500K

[COPO_Anders]

On the first page where you click on &quot;Supercar &amp; Musclecar Bulletin Board&quot; it also says &quot;Register YOUR Supercar With the Supercar Registry!&quot; further down. I guess that is what they refer to as &quot;listed on the Supercar Registry&quot;.

[bergy]

I know what it says Anders - I have never gotten any feedback about being included (after registration). Where's the list of registered cars and how do we see if we're on there?

[COPO_Anders]

Bruce, I don´t think that list was ever intended to be made public. I guess you could PM Tom Clary and ask him if you are on the list. He will probably say yes, and that´s it.

[bergy]

Yeah - that's what I thought Anders. The public Shelby Registry really is helpful to the hobby to document cars. Too bad we can't get something like that going for Super Camaros.

[bergy]

Back to the subject at hand - I'll guess $230k.

[sYc]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bergy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah - that's what I thought Anders. The public Shelby Registry really is helpful to the hobby to document cars. Too bad we can't get something like that going for Super Camaros. </div></div>

Whoever does that better have deep pockets and a good attorney. Way too many &quot;grey area&quot; supercars and too little pulbic info, such as from GM and the NICB.

[bergy]

You don't understand how the Shelby Registry works Tom.

[Stefano]

I would say that he indeed does understand. Tom is a closet Shelby guy and had a Shelby long before his first Yenko Camaro.

[bergy]

That being the case - what would be the difference between say a 1969 Yenko Registry (gotta start somewhere) and the Shelby Registry? The situations are almost identical. It just takes an understanding of the ground rules for inclusion (which SAAC has already sorted out). Shelby cars (especially Cobras) have at least as many &quot;issues&quot; as yenkos. A lot of them were race cars with ugly histories. I know that it sounds counterintuitive, but the registry actually discourages fake cars. The rules for inclusion are the key. There was a good article in the Spring 2010 SAAC Magazine (the &quot;mail saac&quot; section) that reviews some of the rules for inclusion. I can post it if anyone is interested. I'm not trying to be argumentative - the point is that a good public registry of these great cars can enhance their value and provide a valuable service to our hobby. I'm sure that there are a lot of folks who would be happy to help in any way that they can (me included).

[SmallHurst]

It was my understanding that Shelby had all of the documents and paperwork, in part, because the was not a dealer, but a Mfg!!!!! It took a lot of time and effort for the Shelby group to have the numbers, but the numbers and documentation were there.

[rubbinisracing]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bergy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That being the case - what would be the difference between say a 1969 Yenko Registry (gotta start somewhere) and the Shelby Registry?</div></div>

Reliable and complete factory paperwork and a vin that tells you what it is. On 65-67 cars the Shelby vin can also be cross referenced to a Ford vin (stamped on some blocks, trannys and inner fenders)that correspond to the order Shelby placed for the cars from Ford and a Marti Report also detailing the cars build. This provides 2 independent sources of confirmation from original manufacturer paperwork, not incomplete hand written notes.

[bergy]

The Marti Reports are really great for Fords, but they weren't even used for establishment of the original options on 1968 Shelbys (owner input was assumed correct in many cases). I actually had a 1968 that was listed as an original red, automatic car - but the Marti Report cinfirmed that it was originally a Green, 4 speed. Each Registrar (year) established the base data differently. The fact that the initial publishing wasn't 100% accurate didn't stop the process. A great car like the subject of this discussion would really stand tall in a public registry. cars without detailed histories would not stand tall - IMHO that's the way it should be.

- OK, I'll get off of my soap box in favor of a public registry. I'm just thankful that the organizers of this site have provided such a great forum. I know that it must have been a lot of work.

[Stefano]

I have seen numerous examples where pertinent info on the Marti Report was not correct.

[bashton]

I can remember the first time I saw Don's car in a late 80's issue of Super Chevy magazine with the color picture of it in color near a cornfield. I cut it out and hung it on my wall!

I am now proud to say that Don and Judi have become great friends and it is always a pleasure seeing them. For anyone looking for the real-deal with undisputed history that has been owned and properly maintained by a knowledgable enthusiast, this is the car for you.

Bashton
MCACN Managing Member

[John]

...I agree...

.... Don &amp; Judi's Hugger Orange Yenko Camaro

....Is the &quot;Cream of the Crop!&quot;

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/worship.gif

[Chevy454]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bergy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You don't understand how the Shelby Registry works Tom. </div></div>
Like Stefano said, we've been down the Shelby road before, and it left a bad taste in our mouth, *specifically* the dealings we had with the SAAC...their methods aren't (or at least &quot;weren't&quot;) as straight forward and logical as I had imagined...but that's a story for another post. But our '66 was indeed a lot of fun to drive...

Regarding the Registry, the ad could either be referencing the fact that this car was on the list of Yenko numbers we had published here on the site for a while, or also the self-registration info used for the SCR database...or both!

Back on topic, though, what a GREAT car...love that orange! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sYc</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bergy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah - that's what I thought Anders. The public Shelby Registry really is helpful to the hobby to document cars. Too bad we can't get something like that going for Super Camaros. </div></div>

Whoever does that better have deep pockets and a good attorney. Way too many &quot;grey area&quot; supercars and too little pulbic info, such as from GM and the NICB. </div></div>

X2.

[Les Quam]

The SAAC Shelby registry had truckloads full of documents discovered at Shelby's offices as well as discovered documents from Ford all of which provided unprecedented information for the Shelby's. Armed with those docs a small group of Shelby owners compiled the information starting in the 1970s along with information informally kept by other owners going back to the 1960s. This same small group of Shelby owners began a registry that has continously operated since about 1975.

The best GM analogy would perhaps be the Pontiac Historical documents and the GM of canada docs?? Tom does an amazing job with what he has to work with and all of us Yenko owners are grateful the sYc has the information available that it does.

I have seen Don's car and I think it breaks a record at Mecum and might only be hindered by the volume of other Camaros for sale? But as unrestored Yenko's goes with an airtight provenance it doesn't get much better than this car IMHO. I would love to own it.

[ORIGLS6]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bashton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I am now proud to say that Don and Judi have become great friends and it is always a pleasure seeing them. For anyone looking for the real-deal with undisputed history that has been owned and properly maintained by a knowledgable enthusiast, this is the car for you.

Bashton
MCACN Managing Member </div></div>

AMEN!!!!

[bergy]

OK - OK, I'll never mention a public registry again.......except this one time. The first Cobra Registry was completed in 1973 and only 248 of the 998 Cobras produced were accounted for (today 958 accounted for). The GT350 Registry ('65 - '66 only) followed in 1976 and only 486 of the 2941 cars produced were accounted for (today 2,450 accounted for). You can see that it was a pretty small beginning. The sixth registry, in 1997, accounted for 9,956 of the 14,913 cars produced (Cobras and '65 - '70 Mustangs). Yes, the situation and available documents are much different for Yenkos, but Tom and the rest of you have assembled a lot of data that would provide a fantastic basis for a public registry. I understand the need for legal insulation though.
Anyway - I'll never mention a public registry again!

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

For comparison - Vince Emme started tracking the Yenko cars in the early '80's. Of the 201 '69 Yenko Camaros, I believe he has confirmed ~130 of them.

I started tracking the Yenko Deuce Novas in 1996, when ~30 of the 175 were known. Now, some 15 years later we are up to 87 cars known.

So, registry efforts do start off small, but when there is a lack of supporting documentation it makes it very hard - and extremely risky to actually put something down on paper.

[Stefano]

We have 4 great Yenko Cars going to auction. However Judi's Yenko is the only Yenko Camaro in the auction.

BTW......This is a good time to thank Tom, Rob, Marlin as well as many others who have helped document and track these special cars over the years.

[L72COPO]

What am I, chopped liver?????? Judi said that she thought we were fighting as you haven't called lately. Guess this proves she is right.

[black69]

I was wondering if the registry on yenkos keeps track of 'properly rebodied' cars, which are ex-wrecks (verified when and where seen), which have original engines (verified), which ones don't etc. If not, would Jerry McNeish be the only source to confirm these types of things (by way of getting a report on a car of interest)?

just curious...as I think I have seen a registry for challenger t/a's (run by barry washington I believe) and it has a lot of that detail in it if I remember correctly (i.e. which cars to proceed with caution on..etc). Its been a few years now since I was looking for a t/a, but I do remember a nice list of attributes he had for each VIN, if a motor is known but the car is still missing, etc.

[Stefano]

Judi and I have it handled....just sit back and read the current issue of Mecum Monthly.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: black69</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was wondering if the registry on yenkos keeps track of 'properly rebodied' cars, which are ex-wrecks (verified when and where seen), which have original engines (verified), which ones don't etc. If not, would Jerry McNeish be the only source to confirm these types of things (by way of getting a report on a car of interest)?

just curious...as I think I have seen a registry for challenger t/a's (run by barry washington I believe) and it has a lot of that detail in it if I remember correctly (i.e. which cars to proceed with caution on..etc). Its been a few years now since I was looking for a t/a, but I do remember a nice list of attributes he had for each VIN, if a motor is known but the car is still missing, etc.

</div></div>

I keep that level of detail on the Deuces, but I do not publish it - for obvious reasons!

[hep1966]

What's the point of a registry if its information is not available to the public or through a subscription? Who benefits?

[CanCOPO]

Why do we need a registry? If Jerry says it's real, it's real. Isn't that how the story goes? Started as Z28s, then COPO Camaros and soon to be Fords and Mopars. The definitive authority.

[black69]

it is hard for me to understand what I would get access to if I paid membership dues. I also would be concerned on interpretations of what is good.

For example, calling the below car 'great' just gets to me. So how would the registry describe the same car? great? or?
depends on who you ask, likely.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&amp;Number=365243&amp;page=5

[Stefano]

&quot;Great&quot; is certainly subjective.

So honestly and truthfully advertising a car for sale &quot;gets to you&quot;

How about:
Top Gun Award at the Chevey Vette Fest
Three Gold spinners
Concours winner
9XX points out of 1,000 at a national judging venue
etc...etc

While I still don't agree with the method used to restore this Yenko, I still consider it a great one.

You don't think that having this info available on a public Forum which specializes in these cars is valuable?

[Les Quam]

I have seen that Yenko and it is clearly a great car. The owner didn't intend nor did he know about the resto method until discovered years later by Stefano for a client. It's also great Stefano went the extra miles for his prospective buyer to discover the hidden resto mishap and its also very great that the owner never tried to hide the history and has been totally open about it during the entire sales process. It would be really great if everyone in this business conducted themselves like Stefano and the owner have regarding the sale of this great car. Unfortunately in the great majority of case people take the low road in situations like this.

[black69]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stefano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">&quot;Great&quot; is certainly subjective.

So honestly and truthfully advertising a car for sale &quot;gets to you&quot;

How about:
Top Gun Award at the Chevey Vette Fest
Three Gold spinners
Concours winner
9XX points out of 1,000 at a national judging venue
etc...etc

While I still don't agree with the method used to restore this Yenko, I still consider it a great one.

You don't think that having this info available on a public Forum which specializes in these cars is valuable?
</div></div>

Stephano,

When the clary's refer to the car that started this thread, 'as a GREAT car', that holds some weight, that I would tend to believe is good information to see in writing. When you have a car forsale that is a rebody, and call it GREAT in the same thread as the survivor, it just begs for further discussion. Who runs the registry and feedback to prospective inquireries makes me wonder how unbiased the feedback will be. You are no doubt a very significant part of yenko.net. I regard you (unless proven otherwise) part of the team that runs the supercar registry.

What gets to me is the reference to that blue car as great, especially on this thread in the context of a survivor yenko. You should leave that car alone and walk away from it in my opinion, or start calling it a 'good car' considering what happened to it during restoration. Taking 3 yenko cars to auction can be good enough for many <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

[Stefano]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: black69</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it is hard for me to understand what I would get access to if I paid membership dues. I also would be concerned on interpretations of what is good.

For example, calling the below car 'great' just gets to me. So how would the registry describe the same car? great? or?
depends on who you ask, likely.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&amp;Number=365243&amp;page=5 </div></div>

This must be the twilight zone.

You brought the Blue Yenko into this thread not me.

This thread was about the Hugger Orange Yenko going to auction. How about we get back to that &quot;Great&quot; Yenko.

[55Hardtop]

I'm curious about the description of this car:

&quot;Interestingly, the Yenko-installed Stewart Warner tach identifies it as an early production Yenko Super Camaro, later cars featured a factory-installed in-dash unit.&quot;

I've never seen anything that says the '69 Yenko Camaros came with a factory tach, that they were all Stewart Warner units installed in Cannonsburg?

I'm also puzzled by the blacked out rear valence. I was recently reading the interview Don Yenko gave in the April '87 issue of Muscle Car Review, in which he states that all of the Camaros were COPO 9561 cars, and that none were L78 conversions.

Any ideas on this? Don also states in the article that 500 Camaros were built in '69.

[black69]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stefano</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: black69</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it is hard for me to understand what I would get access to if I paid membership dues. I also would be concerned on interpretations of what is good.

For example, calling the below car 'great' just gets to me. So how would the registry describe the same car? great? or?
depends on who you ask, likely.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&amp;Number=365243&amp;page=5 </div></div>

This must be the twilight zone.

You brought the Blue Yenko into this thread not me.


</div></div>

Stephano, maybe I am the only one in the twilight zone. But you got my attention when you posted below on THIS thread. You have only one yenko listed for sale on your website, so I assumed it was one of the 4 you brought into this thread.

here is what you wrote:

We have 4 great Yenko Cars going to auction. However Judi's Yenko is the only Yenko Camaro in the auction.

BTW......This is a good time to thank Tom, Rob, Marlin as well as many others who have helped document and track these special cars over the years.

[COPO_Anders]

55Hardtop, please add information to your profile.

I have learned over the years that you have to stick around for a while to learn about things like this. The experts will probably chime in and tell you when the first Yenko with factory tach was delivered, but I believe it is correct that in the first ones had a Yenko-installed tach and the last ones had a factory-installed in-dash unit.

The first Yenko order of 50 COPO Camaros where ordered as X66-cars, and therefore they came with the blacked out rear valance.

It could be that he knew that 500 COPO Camaros had been built, even though he didn´t sell all of them. I believe he told Vince Piggins before the first order was placed that he would sell 500 Camaros, but then other dealers started placing orders.

[Stefano]

The 4 Yenkos I referenced which are listed on the Mecum site are:

1) Don and Judi's 1969 Yenko Super Camaro

2) Ed's one and only L88, Yenko Trans Am

3) The 1969 Yenko Chevelle featured in McClurg's Yenko Book

4) 1968 L71 427/435 Yenko sold Corvette

All &quot;Great&quot; Cars!

[sYc]

Bob; well, once again we see where jumping in without all of the facts (assuming) gets you. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/thumbsdown.gif

[sYc]

It has been asked, why should some one contribute to this site, and what good is a registry if it is not public?

Well, I could give several reasons, but the best reason is being played out in a couple of other threads on this site. Where else could some one get such expert opinions, quick AND free?

Appears this car, at least the tag, is not legit.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&amp;Number=449550#Post4495 50




This car passed with flying colors, another supercar saved.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthrea...true#Post448598 (http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&amp;Number=448598&amp;Searchpa ge=1&amp;Main=44588&amp;Words=harrell&amp;Search=true#Post4485 98)

[Stefano]

Mecum Monthly with 4 Yenkos (http://www.mecum.com/view_pdf_2011_4.cfm)

[sYc]

Just got mine...some very cool cars featured. Even Judi's Yenko. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif

[SS427]

Hey Judi, since Don is such a party poop, can I drive YOUR car??? <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/3gears.gif

[bergy]

Tom - Thanks for posting your reply to the &quot;why should we...&quot; question. I agree with you completely. Even a simple question that I recently posted regarding horn restoration got two quick recommendations for reliable restorers. These may not be &quot;Supercar&quot; questions, but the help is invaluable none the less.
I'm a relative newcomer to this site, so hopefully you'll all forgive my ignorance of how the registry works. I think maybe some clarification would help a lot of the newer members. How does the registry part of this site work? Are all COPO cars included, or just dealer prep'ed cars? I have personally registered two of my 1969 COPO Camaros (non Yenko) and I have never heard another word. I don't know if the cars are registered, if they qualify for registration, or even if the registration was ever received. I know you're a busy guy, but I've never heard back from you or had you answer a PM. I wouldn't be posting this on the public part of the forum if I could get a return PM from you. Finally, if one of the members has a question about a Supercar that they have found, and they don't want to &quot;tip off&quot; the whole community about its existance - how do we find out if the car has been previously registered? Are the notes and files available even in verbal form? This is a good site Tom - I, for one, am just ignorant about how it works.

Now - sorry for hijacking this thread (again) - the subject car is just about the best one out there. Hope it does a shot at auction!!!!!

[black69]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sYc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bob; well, once again we see where jumping in without all of the facts (assuming) gets you. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/thumbsdown.gif</div></div>

Hey tom, yes I assumed the blue yenko was 1 of the 4, my appologies to stephano and you on that front. As you can tell, I do not like that rebody car, and forever will let it go.

[Stefano]

Bob,

Apology accepted.

Stefano

[sYc]

All types of cars are sent to the registry, not just supercars. The majority of the info we receive, little, if anything is done, it is simply added to a file with other such cars. A few of them, such as ones new to the registry, we may do a follow up email, requesting more info, inviting them to the SCR, etc. Through the registry is how we know approximately how many supercars exist today.


For several years we had our lists up for all to see, but to be perfectly honest, it became too much of a PITA. Seems like weekly we were involved in some sort of heated discussion, at times getting personal, so we decided to go another route.

Requesting info on certain cars, what we provide, how we handle it, varies, depending on the car, the current owner, who is making the request and why. We do it both verbally and by email, and the majority of time, done in confidence.


To date we have never charged a fee, even for non paying members, for our services, though donations are accepted and appreciated.


Our goal 14 years ago was to promote and preserve the supercars, and I think we have done a pretty good job of it. And I say WE, as there have been many loyal members who have contributed to this success, not for gain, but for the good of the club and hobby.

[55Hardtop]

Will do, new to the board.

[black69]

Well I finally saw the blue yenko camaro get sold at Mecum Dallas for $140K. Does anyone know who bought it?
TV annoucers were stumped when it hammered.

[iluv69s]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: black69</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I finally saw the blue yenko get sold at Mecum Dallas for $140K. I hope the notions on how the car was restored was clearly advertised (i.e. 'properly rebodied' as described in Hemmings Motor News, etc).


Is there a way to 'properly' rebody a car? as opposed to what? Are they saying there is some difference in this rebody and any other rebody? not trying to start anything regarding any car in specific...just curious in the wording....




</div></div>

[black69]

here is the new discription for a car having its cowl (top and bottom) moved to another 69 camaro body: extensive sheetmetal restoration. see below:

http://www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_detail.cfm?LOT_ID=DA1011-114957&amp;entryRow=224

[1969z280]

Given the price, it seems obvious that everyone knew the history of this Camaro. The way that I found out about it ... Stephano told me. He has been very straight-forward about the car. JMO, Ed

[iluv69s]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: black69</div><div class="ubbcode-body">here is the new discription for a car having its cowl (top and bottom) moved to another 69 camaro body: extensive sheetmetal restoration. see below:

http://www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_detail.cfm?LOT_ID=DA1011-114957&amp;entryRow=224 </div></div>


Where exactly does it say the car was rebodied??? &quot;all three original VINs still on car&quot;

... ...are you kidding me??

[Stefano]

No, I wasn't kidding....all three original VINs are still on the Original cowl panels, which are on this car, based on my opinion.

I did not restore the car or see any restoration pictures, only as found pics.

Correct high end Yenko Clones are still bringing $50k, give or take.

The best original, unrestored Yenko Camaros are bringing Mid $300s or better.

The rest are somewhere inbetween, depending on their history, options, correctness, level of restoration etc...

[iluv69s]

Wasnt a Yenko (not rebodied) recently sold for considerably less than 200k? 170k range?

Based on the Mecum ad only..it is not possible to tell this car was rebodied. With the known history of this car (and prior 'oops' trying to sell it as 'original body'), why did they just not write the 'full' truth instead of mincing words? Especially if the seller was willing to accept 'rebody' value for the car.

And I wonder if the buyer really knew what he/she was buying. I doubt it for that price...

Still does not seem like proper 'full' disclosure...(my opinion.)

With all due respect Stefano and Mecum, It seems that auctions such as this 'may' cause Mecum to lose some of it's credibility......

again, jmo

[Kim_Howie]

Why don't you take your PROBLEM to Mecum. Not here. JMO

[John]

This thread started talking about one of the best original Yenko Camaros that are out there.... and now has progressed to talking about a &quot;re-bodied&quot; car....

..... Can we start a new thread on rebodied cars....
... so it does not distract from the original intention of this thread? <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif

[iluv69s]

Sorry for getting sidetracked from the original thread....I did not read the contents of this thread way back from April. I was commentng on more recent posts.

And as far as dealing with 'my problem' with Mecum...isn't that thier link here on this site?

I have watched now for years people here discussing different cars and auctions similiar to this....ie..green Z-28...BJ Zl-1....

I hope we are not going to censor opinions here...

[flyingn]

Ill say the orange Yenko goes for $320k