The best musclecar around 30K?

[ZiggyL78]

I'm a GM guy but I'm tired of pouring money into race cars and getting 30% back when I sell.I'm hoping to still get something fast but I would like something that is a good investment.I will be spending around 30K or less.I always thought that 69 Camaros were a good investment.I've seen a couple of restored 69s with big blocks under 30K.I may even try a Mopar.

[Zedder]

I'm looking to get into something in the same price range for cruise nights and it seems that right now, Novas and Chevelles offer the best bang for the buck. I've seen very few decent Camaros for sale. Years ago, there were lots if nice '67 SS350 cars, but I haven't seen a decent one in years! KWhizz's Nova that was for sale on this site was a great buy and I would have picked that up if my car had of sold a week sooner...

[XXXGoldL34M20]

I have said this before about Dart Swingers being under valued and fast.
For $30K you can by one in mint shape if you do not mind a Mopar.
I am in the GTA area near you and i see way to many 69' Camaro's at the cruises, at $30K you will be buying one that will mix in with the other hundreds of 69' Camaro's that are all over the place.
I say go with a car that not to many guys have.

[Charley Lillard]

If you want to work on something I have a good 68 SS RS 396 Camaro for 15K. Has a 427 in it but the orig 325 hp 396 is on a pallet.

Or I have a 69 383 auto on column Super Bee orig paint, great car for 25K

Or a 68 SS RS 350 4 speed car for 35K, mostly orig Rally Green paint with lots of options

[mockingbird812]

Boy, ask and ye shall receive. Those are some nice choices. You can also get a lot of car for the money with pontiacs. Firebirds and gtos will all have factory docs which will bode well for resale and the investment angle. Plus for 30k you can get into a convertible too.

[ORIGLS6]

If you don't mind the F word, a '66 or '67 Fairlane would fit in your price range too. The 390 GTAs were strong in our area, but we hardly see any around here anymore.
I always liked their styling.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you want to work on something I have a good 68 SS RS 396 Camaro for 15K. Has a 427 in it but the orig 325 hp 396 is on a pallet.

Or I have a 69 383 auto on column Super Bee orig paint, great car for 25K

Or a 68 SS RS 350 4 speed car for 35K, mostly orig Rally Green paint with lots of options </div></div> Charley; I may be interested in either of the Camaros if you are interested in the COPO.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ORIGLS6</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you don't mind the F word, a '66 or '67 Fairlane would fit in your price range too. The 390 GTAs were strong in our area, but we hardly see any around here anymore.
I always liked their styling. </div></div> Two years ago I visited a town in the Yukon which is a long way up North. I lucked into their annual car show and there I met a fellow that owned five 67 Fairlanes, factory 427- 2 4barrel, 4speed cars. Also had a 63 Galaxie lite weight 427-2 4 barrel car. All cars were original paint and in fine shape

[69 Post Sedan]

1969 Nova (http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php? ubb=showflat&amp;Number=431510#Post431510)

^^^^^^Ken, how about this Nova?

[442w30]

Get a '68 Mopar with a 340 stick and it'll have a more radical cam than any other 340 built in subsequent years.

You could also find a 1971 440 Charger SE, which is more luxurious than the performance R/T.

And, perhaps the biggest performance/price ratio of the bunch, how about a 429 CJ Ford? They're undervalued compared with their Chevy and Mopar counterparts. Even the 429 Thunder Jet is a good value - just not as fast.

[ZiggyL78]

I'm watching that one.Man it looks tough.

[ZiggyL78]

Nice to hear from you Danny.Incase you guys don't know Danny has a garage full of muscle.His LS6 Chevelle has 36K original miles and is the nicest one I have ever seen.

[ZiggyL78]

Funny.I called a 427 Super Stock clone on Ebay.It had a side oiler and was very nice.Starting bid was around 17,200.I figured the reserve was close to that.After talking to the guy for about 20 minutes I ask how much he would take.54K!End of conversation.

[ZiggyL78]

All nice cars.I think the best looking muscle car of all time was the 70 W30.

[SS427]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZiggyL78</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> His LS6 Chevelle has 36K original miles and is the nicest one I have ever seen. </div></div>

Definitely one sweet car!

[markinnaples]

Interesting, I was thinking about asking the same question.

I was thinking of buying a retirement investment vehicle that I can use for cruise nights and taking the kids to Dairy Queen, but my budget is more in the $10-$15k range.

Any thoughts on getting something in that realm?

[Tracker1]

I would also stand up for the 1970 Mustang Sportsroof fastback and Cougar XR7 with 351 Cleveland and the 4-speed. They are fast. And with some tuning and headers, you will be very, very happy with even more performance. That 1970 351C is an under-rated gem in the musclecar market, plus with the looks of a '70 fastback Stang, it's all good.

[Jim Ferron]

You can buy a lot of car for 30K in todays world...maybe you should consider what is most appealing to YOU...

Say..

A nice Camaro, Chevelle, Nova [that would be perhaps the most common car at a car show and draw less attention than you might think]BTW I own two Chevelles...

An incredible 'survivor' anything, certain circles go wild for [like me!]BTW I own 4 survivors

A day two car, that seems to being drawing more attention than ever everyplace..[I go wild for those too!]I own a couple of those

Or something you don't see as often like an AMC, Buick , Olds or many FoMoCos.. [I run to see AMX's and Machines]I have two Olds and a Buick, even 1 Ford!

I'd think you would get way more car if you stayed away from the norm...

[RPOLS3]

While I would generally agree with everyone that you <span style="text-decoration: underline">should</span> be able to find something pretty nice for $30k - I am constantly amazed at the &quot;issues&quot; that many of these cars have (just ask kwhizz...).

Casually perusing the cars for sale at Jefferson this past Friday most everything I saw at any price range below $30k had seriously spray bombed engine compartments/chassis with Auto Zone accessories, questionable bodywork, and medicore interiors - most all needed something. Maybe I am too picky and certainly there are always exceptions to this but they are becoming fewer every year. You can see why no issue cars with original components (drivetrain and major accessories like alternator, distributor, carb, etc) are selling more quickly and getting more money.

Jake

[TDW]

Any interest in a very nice 72 Camaro, SS, 4 speed, heavy docs,very original, except paint, for 25?

[XXXGoldL34M20]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZiggyL78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice to hear from you Danny.Incase you guys don't know Danny has a garage full of muscle.His LS6 Chevelle has 36K original miles and is the nicest one I have ever seen. </div></div>

Hey Ken you are off a bit on the mileage, today it sits at 25,334 miles. When i bought the car in September 2009 it was at 23,704 miles but the previous owner before me did snap the Speedo Cable during his ownership.
He bought an NOS Speedo Cable to replace the broken cable but he never did install it until i put it in the car after Rick sold it to me.
One thing i do know is Rick barely drove the car and took it to only one cruise-show in nearly ten years and that show was just down the street from were the car was parked in his dealer showroom.
I figure the car still has under 30K original miles anyways as he just took the car out for small road trips near his dealership on Jane St. + Hwy #7 as the car was always parked in his showroom.

Ken if you do ever go look at a car that you might buy, let me know, maybe i will come with you as 4 eyes are better than 2.

[tom406]

This is the coolest thing under $15K I've seen lately. Survivor other than paint (original paint was D-E-A-D I guess). Houndstooth roof (!) matches the interior. 351C/auto.

http://www.memorylanemotors.com/pics.php?id=315

[markinnaples]

That is actually pretty cool.

[markjohnson]

If I had $30K in the bank, it'd be staying in the bank. Too many areas of the country haven't recovered from the recession and many never will. Picture a pyramid in your head with the wide base being potential buyers for cars less than $10K and as you approach the tip of the pyramid, meaning more expensive cars, the amount of potential buyers that have that kind of money to spend dramatically shrinks. Even the people that DO have that kind of money DON'T want to let it go as freely in the pre-2008 world. The era of laying all those stacks of $100 bills on someone's kitchen table to pay for that &quot;toy&quot; that's in the garage have become increasingly rare. Yeah, I miss those days too, but that scenario just isn't happening that much anymore in many parts of the country. I'd be scared to death to have $30K or more wrapped up in a car without knowing that I couldn't get rid of it in the case of a job loss or family misfortune. Cars aren't selling and the ones that do sell are taking a very long time to do so. If I had to scratch a performance/fun car itch, I'd buy a nice, low-mileage late-model Mustang GT (or something similar), for less than $10-12K with air conditioning and CD player knowing that I could drive it to work everyday if need be. Now if you STILL want an older car after reading this apocalyptic response of mine, make sure you stick with something VERY popular like a Camaro/Chevelle/Corvette, etc. in a popular color. This is NOT the time to purchase an off-the-beaten-path strange type of car of any kind with a narrow fan base. Stick to the very popular brand/models so it's easier to sell when the time comes to try to get your money back.

[sYc]

For the many enthusiasts who for long felt they could not afford their “dream car”, IMO, now IS the time to buy.

[Salvatore]

Mark Johnson what a dead on reply IMO!

[markjohnson]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sYc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the many enthusiasts who for long felt they could not afford their “dream car”, IMO, now IS the time to buy. </div></div>


I do agree with this statement. If you're truly buying with your heart and it's the EXACT car you've been wanting/lusting after since you were 16-18 years old . . . . . well then, there'll most likely NEVER be a better time than right now. Just like the Beach Boys &quot;409&quot; song, if you've saved your pennies and you saved your dimes . . . . then it's time to bust that piggy bank open! You can never go wrong following your heart and you won't feel &quot;stuck&quot; with something if it's the car you've ALWAYS wanted.

[sYc]

Though the years most of us on here have bought &quot;from the heart&quot;, which is what makes us enthusiasts, not investors.

[ZiggyL78]

I agree on the odd cars.I'm more interested in them at shows,but I'm not sure they are the ones that are selling.AMXs are a good example.They are very quick when done right, but they are cheap to buy.I also like SC360 Hornets.Again.They were very fast stock.Another odd one was one of the fastest production cars in 1970 but it is low on the pole for a good seller.Stage 1 GSs are one of the nicest and quickest cars I have ever owned but they are tough to sell.5 years ago I had a black on black low 11 second GS that was a fully documented Stage 1.I couldn't get 20K for the car!I had to part the car out to get my money.Another one was a very nice W31 Cutlass.Orange with white stripes and white guts.It was an incredible car.It took me 4 months to get 21 for it.

[TDW]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sYc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Though the years most of us on here have bought &quot;from the heart&quot;, which is what makes us enthusiasts, not investors. </div></div>

Exactly. I just spent almost 100 grand building my &quot;dream car&quot;. It's a 34 ford, hemi powered. I've wanted to build this one for close to 40 years., every since I saw one as a kid in Jr. High school. I'll never get anywhere close to that number if I ever sell it. It isn't always about the money, now is it?
Every car that I have built, I knew going it that I would not get back my &quot;investment&quot;. So be it.

[ZiggyL78]

I hear ya.Collector cars are not the best way to invest your money today.I'm in Canada and our economy is not that bad.It's not my last 30K and the girl friend is still working.LOL.I'm retired.I have to have something to play with and the investment part is my second thought for buying.I agree that 10-15K cars would be the best to buy for a quick resale.
The other side is,like someone mentioned,now is the time to buy as prices are low.If you wait for the economy to improve then prices are bound to go up.

[Zedder]

Excellent points by many. I would not look at these cars as investments anymore. Hopefully, prices will stabilize in the next year or so and we can hope to at least recoup the money we bought them for (excluding frame-off restos of course). It's much like it was before the boom. You could buy a nice car for $20K - $25K, drive it for a year or two and get your $25K back. People didn't expect to make a profit like we did during the mid 2000's. Personally, I'm hoping this prompts more people to get their cars out to the local cruise nights like they used to. I remember having my red '67 RS Z out with another '67 Z, an LS6 Chevelle and 2 COPOs in the same row! We just never see that anymore!

[XXXGoldL34M20]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TDW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=sYc]
Every car that I have built, I knew going into it that I would not get back my &quot;investment&quot;. So be it. </div></div>

This is also true with Woman LOL

[GTO_DON]

This is a very interesting topic. I could not disagree more with the statement of buying only mainstream cars. I have been finding with the exception of 69 camaros that the so called Dark horses have been selling easier than the popular ones. For instance Ive had more people trying to buy my 2+2 catalina than anything else I own. Second most popular is my 77 Trans am. All the 70's cars are selling higher than 60's cars except for the really rare one. I sold a can am for 30k!!! A 68 grand prix for 25k. And have been offered big money for my 427 impala and my catalina...Big Boats are In. Just my 2 cents.

[RPOLS3]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GTO_DON</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All the 70's cars are selling higher than 60's cars except for the really rare one.</div></div>

This kind of confirms William's theory (from a different post on a similar topic) that as the generations age, different things (like cars) have different relative values because of what they liked when they were younger - which also supports the &quot;buy what you like&quot; advice.

With that said, you could apply Mark Johnson's concept and go for a Grand National - I'm guessing you could buy a pretty mint one for under $20k and have a heck of a nice/fast car.

Interesting discussion for sure.

Jake

[69hurstSC]

If your thinking investment and 30K I would highly recommend AMC. 68-70 AMX, 71 Hornet S/C, 70 Rebel Machine can all be had for that price. These cars are ultra rare compared to a 396 Chevelle or a 383 B Body. Rare + affordable = solid investment.

[Tracker1]

this is what I am talking about when I mention 351C Fords - 20K at R&amp;S last year. Smoking deal. there is nowhere to go but up on a deal like this.

http://www.russoandsteele.com/past-collector-car/1971-Mercury-Couger-XR7/6080

[mockingbird812]

Suggested mods: Rare + Desirable + Bought at or below market (in a rising market) = Solid Investment

[markjohnson]

As far as &quot;buying from the heart&quot; it seems to me that a fella seems to gravitate to what you originally liked in your &quot;formative&quot; years . . . roughly 15-21 years old. Kinda seems that way with cars, even music, etc. Sure, we all seem to get sidetracked in our 20's and 30's but by the time you reach your 40's you've realized what you really like from those precious early years and you start looking for that LS-6 Chevelle that you used to ride to high school in or even the IROC Camaro/Trans Am GTA/Buick Grand National that you were insanely jealous of and the rich kid at your school that had the car has no idea of the impression he left on you 25 years ago! I'm gonna steal this photo from another thread on this site just to say that I'm just absolutely nuts about Grady's Red '67 BBC Camaro. I just love that car and if a fellow had an insatiable lust for a $200,000-$400,000 1967 Yenko Camaro, a car similar to that would have to satisfy you for a fraction of the cost. This car is every bit of the car that a Yenko/Motion/Dana/Nickey Camaro is. It was just put together by somebody else . . . . that's all! I've always been a bit flabbergasted to see something like a Yenko Camaro/Chevelle/Nova sell for a quarter million dollars like they typically do because they're just way to easy to duplicate for the last 40 years. Clean Small Block cars have always been available and so were crate LS-6's and LS-7's and now we have 502's and even 572's now! Heck, all the original Supercars were just &quot;transplant&quot; cars anyway that were put together by dealership mechanics that couldn't wait to clock out and go home. I miss the days when you showed up somewhere with your car on a Saturday night and the questions were &quot;How fast is it?&quot; or &quot;What are the cam specs?&quot;. Those questions have sadly been replaced by &quot;How much you think its' worth?&quot;

[SuperNovaSS]

Just because you have a 30K budget does not mean you have to spend that much. Many Impalas, Fairlanes, etc. can be great cars that could also be a good choice from an investment perspective.

[Zedder]

I have to agree...I love that car too! One of my all-time favorites from this site.

[MosportGreen66]

Check out a '69 Vette 350/350 convertible with good options like side pipes. In good colors like Monza Red (Hugger Orange). Those cars with a 4 speed and 4:11s make for fun Vettes!

[markinnaples]

Not bad for fairly cheap:

http://tricities.craigslist.org/cto/2605679279.html

http://nacogdoches.craigslist.org/cto/2552126238.html

[lowmile]

Telling a guy what kind of car he needs to buy is like telling him what kind woman he should marry.......

[WILMASBOYL78]

That wasn't a problem for you...your wife told you what to do <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif

Long time no talk...hope all is well.

wilma <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

[Salvatore]

If you can find a decent survivor car that you like that is what I would buy first choice. Saw many of Donny Whites cars that were priced from 15 to 25 grand and all were really nice cars. Would have liked to own any of them.

[RAIIIT/A]

My dad just picked up a really nice '72 Corvette... #'s match 4 speed in great colors... for $11,400

[John]

... How about a Hotrod with a chopped top that rides like a Cadillac?

I have an all original 2000 Cadillac Eldorado ESC
..... with 12,300 original miles
.... It is Black with grey leather interior.

...$19,500

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/whistle.gif

[njsteve]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lowmile</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Telling a guy what kind of car he needs to buy is like telling him what kind woman he should marry....... </div></div>

That's what mother-in-laws are for. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif

[Tracker1]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZiggyL78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">5 years ago I had a black on black low 11 second GS that was a fully documented Stage 1.I couldn't get 20K for the car!I had to part the car out to get my money. </div></div>

You &quot;parted out&quot; an original black '70 Stage 1 Buick in 2005 or 2006??! Were you terminally ill in need of money? facing bankruptcy? going through a divorce and had to pay the ex? these are the only reasons I can see for doing such a thing and not passing the car on to someone else who may have a appreciated it more than you, even at a reduced cost. Not to be hating on you, but maybe you should consider coin collecting or the stock market if money means that much to you - obviously musclecars don't. Unless you did it for one of the above reasons I outlined, that was a real shame for someone to do that.

[442w30]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 69hurstSC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If your thinking investment and 30K I would highly recommend AMC. 68-70 AMX, 71 Hornet S/C, 70 Rebel Machine can all be had for that price. These cars are ultra rare compared to a 396 Chevelle or a 383 B Body. Rare + affordable = solid investment. </div></div>

Save your breath - they're hung up on Chevys. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/haha.gif

[ZiggyL78]

Those are good deals.
Thanks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: markinnaples</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not bad for fairly cheap:

http://tricities.craigslist.org/cto/2605679279.html

http://nacogdoches.craigslist.org/cto/2552126238.html
</div></div>

[markinnaples]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RAIIIT/A</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My dad just picked up a really nice '72 Corvette... #'s match 4 speed in great colors... for $11,400 </div></div>

Oh man, that is right down my alley as I love the '68-'72 Vettes, except I'd like to have room for the kids.

[JpMotorsports]

If you dont need a big block theres always a small block car and they seem to bring a more realistic price. If you like Chevelles the Malibus are just as nice and a strong runny 350 can run with and sometimes our run a big block. My 69 Chevelle is a 350 car and I have beaten plenty of big blocks. The guy who did the body really liked the COPO look (so do I) So he added the SS side stripes and the SS hood but left all the Malibu trim minus the 350 or 307 badges and the quarter MALIBU call outs. I added the rear black out and detailed the motor after the DZ 302's. My car is nice and has been in Greenfield Village 3 times and offered to attend other shows. Its a really nice and fun driver and If I was to sell it I know I could get about 20,000.00 for it. And I know I am not off base with that number based off the look and detail of the car. IMO I honestly believe you can have as much fun in something with a small block as you would in a big block and have cash left in your pocket. Novas are light and fast and offer alot if you like the Camaro size and the look of a smaller Chevelle.

[lowmile]

Tom, please quit clouding the issue and my statement with facts. Its just not productive.

[TimG]

I think the '70 to '72 442's are great. The ram air hood is one of the best ever placed on a car and the torque of the monster 455 will smoke the tires.

[Zedder]

Don't know the car or the seller, but this looks like a good deal???

http://www.camaros.net/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=47786

[RAIIIT/A]

I would stay away from clones and trendy customs from an investment standpoint.

[69hurstSC]

You would think the words SuperCar would mean something around here? <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 442w30</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 69hurstSC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If your thinking investment and 30K I would highly recommend AMC. 68-70 AMX, 71 Hornet S/C, 70 Rebel Machine can all be had for that price. These cars are ultra rare compared to a 396 Chevelle or a 383 B Body. Rare + affordable = solid investment. </div></div>

Save your breath - they're hung up on Chevys. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/haha.gif </div></div>

[Mr.Nickey Nova]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tracker1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=ZiggyL78]5 years ago I had a black on black low 11 second GS that was a fully documented Stage 1.I couldn't get 20K for the car!I had to part the car out to get my money. </div></div>

You &quot;parted out&quot; an original black '70 Stage 1 Buick in 2005 or 2006??! Were you terminally ill in need of money? facing bankruptcy? going through a divorce and had to pay the ex? these are the only reasons I can see for doing such a thing and not passing the car on to someone else who may have a appreciated it more than you, even at a reduced cost. Not to be hating on you, but maybe you should consider coin collecting or the stock market if money means that much to you - obviously musclecars don't. Unless you did it for one of the above reasons I outlined, that was a real shame for someone to do that. [/quote

You nailed it right on the head with that statement,couldn't agree more!!

[ZiggyL78]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tracker1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZiggyL78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">5 years ago I had a black on black low 11 second GS that was a fully documented Stage 1.I couldn't get 20K for the car!I had to part the car out to get my money. </div></div>

You &quot;parted out&quot; an original black '70 Stage 1 Buick in 2005 or 2006??! Were you terminally ill in need of money? facing bankruptcy? going through a divorce and had to pay the ex? these are the only reasons I can see for doing such a thing and not passing the car on to someone else who may have a appreciated it more than you, even at a reduced cost. Not to be hating on you, but maybe you should consider coin collecting or the stock market if money means that much to you - obviously musclecars don't. Unless you did it for one of the above reasons I outlined, that was a real shame for someone to do that. </div></div>

What if I told you that my sister was terminally ill and needed help in her dying days making ends meet? What if I told you that if I didn't do what I did, her children wouldn't have a decent meal or decent clothes to wear out in public? You think about that next time you judge someone.
I agree it was sad to part it out and I had a rough time doing it. I don't get where you're justified in judging me (probably because you're not). While we're drawing conclusions here, yours that means you must not believe in God right? If you say you do, you have no respect for him because we are advised to leave the judging up to him. I'm no religious fanatic, but while you're sitting on high ground looking down at us all, I just thought I would put that out there. Too bad you weren't around back then, you could have thrown down the cash and saved me from going to car collector's hell LOL .
For the rest of you that might be curious as to why someone might do such a thing, I will share it with you and start by asking a question. What is the difference between fulfilling one guy's dream to have a car like this and fulfilling many people's dreams by making their cars complete and helping many people get their restorations to a numbers matching status? Do you have any idea how many cars became numbers-matching, respected builds from just my one parted out car? I do! That's why I have no issue as a car enthusiast sleeping at night. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/wink.gif

[442w30]

Not sure how a car becomes numbers-matching from parts of another car, but hey . . . !

[RAIIIT/A]

Not judging.... just stating a fact..... but what you did was driven by greed.... pure and simple.... nevertheless... it was your car to do with as you please...

Back in 2005 I bought a '71 T/A for cheap. It was an all #'s matching born with... 455 HO. The car was complete and had all the right parts... carb, scoop... fenders etc... but sat outside untouched for 23 years.... I ended up selling the car for 8or9 grand.... I could've easily parted it out and probably stuck 12-13k or more in my pocket.... but couldn't bring myself to rip that car apart for a few extra dollars....

BTW - I'm a car dealer by trade....

[Tracker1]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZiggyL78</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tracker1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZiggyL78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">5 years ago I had a black on black low 11 second GS that was a fully documented Stage 1.I couldn't get 20K for the car!I had to part the car out to get my money. </div></div>

You &quot;parted out&quot; an original black '70 Stage 1 Buick in 2005 or 2006??! Were you terminally ill in need of money? facing bankruptcy? going through a divorce and had to pay the ex? these are the only reasons I can see for doing such a thing and not passing the car on to someone else who may have a appreciated it more than you, even at a reduced cost. Not to be hating on you, but maybe you should consider coin collecting or the stock market if money means that much to you - obviously musclecars don't. Unless you did it for one of the above reasons I outlined, that was a real shame for someone to do that. </div></div>

What if I told you that my sister was terminally ill and needed help in her dying days making ends meet? What if I told you that if I didn't do what I did, her children wouldn't have a decent meal or decent clothes to wear out in public? You think about that next time you judge someone.
I agree it was sad to part it out and I had a rough time doing it. I don't get where you're justified in judging me (probably because you're not). While we're drawing conclusions here, yours that means you must not believe in God right? If you say you do, you have no respect for him because we are advised to leave the judging up to him. I'm no religious fanatic, but while you're sitting on high ground looking down at us all, I just thought I would put that out there. Too bad you weren't around back then, you could have thrown down the cash and saved me from going to car collector's hell LOL .
For the rest of you that might be curious as to why someone might do such a thing, I will share it with you and start by asking a question. What is the difference between fulfilling one guy's dream to have a car like this and fulfilling many people's dreams by making their cars complete and helping many people get their restorations to a numbers matching status? Do you have any idea how many cars became numbers-matching, respected builds from just my one parted out car? I do! That's why I have no issue as a car enthusiast sleeping at night. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/wink.gif

</div></div>

I sympathize with your sister and your family's medical plight, but wouldn't have selling the GS for 14 or 15K been quicker in getting the money than &quot;parting it out&quot; over the course of a few months? Anyways if it is the car pictured that I am thinking of it's a shame you did it - I drove it, rode in it and have a personal history with it - that is (one of) the reason why I don't like what you did. And forget my previous, &quot;if&quot; - I know for certain this is the car Ken.

[markinnaples]

An SS El Camino is a lot less money than a comparable Chevelle, so that might be an option to get into a nice muscle car for less.

[RAIIIT/A]

Thats a nice car....

[Tracker1]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RAIIIT/A</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thats a nice car.... </div></div>

Yup. Still the fastest stock appearing 4-seat musclecar I've ever been in. She was a brute. Engine was full of TA Performance stuff and built by S&amp;S in Ottawa to the tune of 520 ponies with the 950 Holley DP, Tom Rix original Stage1 transmission that was &quot;breathed on&quot; for serious kick-in-the-back upshifts with the GS Club of America's blueprinted torque converter, 12-bolt with strange axles and moroso brute strength posi unit, 3&quot; exhaust from torque technologies, ...breathtakingly fast car

yes the undercarriage, engine bay and trunk cosmetics were in need of attention but she was solid - factory code 19 black, non-A/C car

[JpMotorsports]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tracker1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RAIIIT/A</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thats a nice car.... </div></div>

Yup. Still the fastest stock appearing 4-seat musclecar I've ever been in. She was a brute. Engine was full of TA Performance stuff and built by S&amp;S in Ottawa to the tune of 520 ponies with the 950 Holley DP, Tom Rix original Stage1 transmission that was &quot;breathed on&quot; for serious kick-in-the-back upshifts with the GS Club of America's blueprinted torque converter, 12-bolt with strange axles and moroso brute strength posi unit, 3&quot; exhaust from torque technologies, ...breathtakingly fast car

yes the undercarriage, engine bay and trunk cosmetics were in need of attention but she was solid - factory code 19 black, non-A/C car </div></div>

WOW!! What a brute!!

[Tracker1]

more pics

[Tracker1]

more and GM of Canada documentation

[RAIIIT/A]

What a shame.... I would've paid 20k for that.

[ZiggyL78]

First I would like to thank everyone who replied in this thread.It was going real well till Trater jumped in.I really like to sit back and watch little people shoot their mouths off.
OK Desmond.My first question is why did you not PM me and ask what happened?
If this car was so nice why did it take the owner so long to sell?I think it was up for a year or so.Factory Stage 1 with docs for 20.It seemed like a good deal.
Who really destroyed this car?Was it me or the previous owner who replaced the numbers matching rear,lost the numbers matching trans and killed the numbers matching block?
Did you really think this was a fast car?When I took it to the track the first time with race fuel and DRs it ran 12.3s.Wow.500HP?I don't think so.I called the engine builder and he told me all the problems the other owner had.Detonation can really kill a motor quickly.We took the car back to the shop and went through everything.After straightening out some stupid problems and a lot of tweaking we finally got the car down to 11.8s.That was it.It would never go any faster then that.
When I went to sell the car it was much better then when I bought it even though I couldn't get anyone to even look at it.One restoration guy came and looked it over.After he told me all the things wrong with the car he offered me 10K.I had 23 in it.I had 3 guys interested in the motor and trans.I sold them to a real nice guy in NFLD,honest.He put it in his fathers 98 and I hear he just loves it.1 person happy.I sold the original carb to another Stage 1 guy for $1200.2 guys happy.The built rear end went to a local young guy building a BB Chevelle.3 guys happy.The rolling shell went to another Stage 1 guy who was going to restore it.4 guys happy.When I sold the built rear I put the stock numbers matching rear back in the car.So in the end 4 guys happy and the car was closer to original then when I recieved it.
Next time get your facts straight before you make a fool of yourself.Now go back in the cabin,have a couple more beers,scale a few Cod and call your mommy.

[Tracker1]

the fool here ain't me Ken. I PM'ed you about the car months ago, no reply. But seeing as how you started this thread, seems you haven't learned your lesson - trolling for musclecars as an investment is a FOOL'S game. Oh wait - maybe it is perfect for you then after all. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/laugh.gif

[ZiggyL78]

I apologize for not returning your PM.I'm involved in a number of forums and I do not come here a lot.
Maybe my first post was a little confusing.I'm not looking to invest my money.I have decided to buy a muscle car and wanted to know which one is the best investment.
Good luck my friend.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tracker1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the fool here ain't me Ken. I PM'ed you about the car months ago, no reply. But seeing as how you started this thread, seems you haven't learned your lesson - trolling for musclecars as an investment is a FOOL'S game. Oh wait - maybe it is perfect for you then after all. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/laugh.gif </div></div>

[ZiggyL78]

MODERATERS.
Please lock this one up.It went the wrong way.
Thanks again to everyone.
<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

[NapsterNova]

I'm pretty sure I could part with mine for 30k. '68 Chevy II - 454 full roller, rectangular port heads, M-21 4-speed, Ford 9&quot; w/Detroit Locker, rotisserie restoration about 7yrs ago. I also have the original owner’s manual, Protecto Plate, and receipts dating back to 1968. This Chevy II/Nova started life as a 6 cylinder bench seat grocery getter. Pics (http://www.napadow.com/Nova/)

http://www.napadow.com/Nova/P5210371.JPG
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http://www.napadow.com/Nova/P4150070.JPG
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http://www.napadow.com/Nova/engine5.jpg
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http://www.napadow.com/Nova/interior4.jpg

[TDW]

Ziggy..You didn't respond to my post about a Camaro. I guess you missed it.

[markinnaples]

Wow, that Nova looks sweet, and I bet it's a lot of fun.

[ZiggyL78]

Sorry Tony.I've been real busy.Too many forums.I'm not looking for a Camaro past 71.
That is one nice Nova.Thanks anyway and to all who offered.
I'm in Indiana right now.I have a list of cars to look at.If anyone is near by or on the way back to Detroit,let me know.
Thanks

[TDW]

OK Ziggy. Good luck in your search. I'm about 60 miles North of Detroit.
What is different in a second gen camaro from 70-72? Grill? HP ratings?

[JpMotorsports]

I am 35 min of Detorit if you need anything I know southeast MI very very well.