Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?

[talwell]

I hired a restoration shop in Woodstock, Il to restore a 1969 Camaro for me as well as purchased another 1969 Camaro convertible from them that was in the process of being restored.

Long story short, I was supposed to have the cars in March and I dont have my cars - the last 6 months has had every excuse imaginable and then some. At this point I have given up on the fact that they are ever going to do the right thing. I cannot just walk away as they have one of my cars there and $50k of my money.

What are the legal options in Illinois to assist me in getting this resolved? Unfortunately I am in NY so it is not as easy as going there to resolve the issues or to take my cars.

The shop is located in Woodstock, Il.

[SS427]

That sucks. It's guys like that, that give us honest restorers a bad name. I am over 4 hours away from them otherwise I would be happy to drive there and check them out. There are lots of other locals on this site, maybe one of them can swing by. If I can help in other ways just let me know.
Rick

[RPOLS3]

PM sent

Jake

[Rixls6]

PM sent also.

[Glenn L78]

PM sent, glad to help

[Xplantdad]

THIS...is what it cool about this site!

[SS427]

I think there are a lot of Chicago guys that know who Santa has been watching and know they have not been good........

[Xplantdad]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SS427</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think there are a lot of Chicago guys that know who Santa has been watching and know they have not been good........ </div></div>


<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/haha.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/haha.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/haha.gif


This too!

[69YENKO162]

I am in the next town over,Let me know if I can help. John

[talwell]

Wow - I am overwhelmed with the amount of people willing to help me in resolving this.

I received many PM's - I greatly appreciate this. It has been a terrible year dealing with this shop and to make matters worse I told them that I lost my mother in July and my father had brain surgery the same week and suffered a stroke the next day. Regardless of the fact that I told them that I really could use to sell at least one of the cars to cover costs to help take care of my father they still could give two shits about me or my family.

It really puts a sour taste in my mouth - I know there are alot of great shops out there that stand behind thier word and deliver quality work but after this I am frustrated with allowing anyone to do anything for me.

The last conversation that I had with him he was gravely ill (actually on vacation) and told me once he is back to work he needs 2 months to finish the car that only needed glass and interior 8 months ago.

[SS427]

Todd, don't let one bad egg spoil your fun. There are many shops out there that would not treat you this way. Many of them including myself are on this site and are long standing members. I would trust them before anyone else. Get this issue resolved first and then see how you feel.
Rick

[Salvatore]

I am with Rick on the Shops that are out there. Lesson to be learned, NEVER have anybody do anything for you that is not in a reasonable driving distance from your home. No one can keep a better check on things better than the owner. Maybe you should go out there and have them brought back to your home or a safe place and determine what you are going to do from there. My opinion. Good luck and hope your dad is doing better!

[SS427]

I disagree with the distance thing Sam. I tell my customers that first and foremost, find a shop that is an expert in the type of car you own. How a shop can restore a VW in one corner, a Duesenberg in the next and a COPO in the third is beyond me. They can make them all pretty but I doubt they are all, if any one, concours correct. Also, if I were to walk into a shop that I wanted to have restore my 69 Camaro or 70 Chevelle as an example and they had several crash and burn insurance jobs on newer cars in the shop I would also turn tail and run unless this shop has two seperate businesses within the business as well as employees. In my 30 years of restoring cars, less then 10 have come from the same state I live/ed in and most were on one or the other coasts.

In order to be successful a shop needs to keep the client well informed, up to date with billing and photographs and continual progress. Make them a part of the restoration process. I have learned some valuable and hard learned lessons in that department recently but needless to say, communication is key. You can give your client their car back that they are 100% happy with but if you have not made the venture pleasurable for them getting there than you have ultimately lost in the end. In todays day and age it is not that hard to 'drop in' on a shop even if located far away especially with business people who are always traveling. Finding an expert on your type of car is more inportant than the convenience fact but that is just my opinion.

[Salvatore]

I am sure there are shops within 50-75 mile radius that could do his work don't you? NOW if he wants to send it to a SCW or your!! shop or Schonye's etc,etc. that everybody knows than that is different. If you are not going to one of those preferred places than do it pretty local to you where you can drop by and check it out on occasion. Again, JMO. If he sent it to the shops I just mentioned even though they are far from him, this thread would have never started.

[talwell]

I am going to chalk this up as one of those live and learn lessons. I have certainly learned alot of this experience and cannot wait for it to be over now.

If this shop does not do the right thing with assistance from some of the people that offered to help I will no longer use the discretion of not mentioning thier name here. As well, I will get alot more aggressive in getting my cars and my money.

[chevy427450]

I live in Genoa Ill, about 30 minutes away and would be happy to go there and pick up both cars for you. I have an enclosed trailer big enough for two cars so space is not a problem. Let me know.

Nick

[Salvatore]

There you go Todd. The Morocco family are great people, all of them.

[ORIGLS6]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chevy427450</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have an enclosed trailer big enough for two cars so space is not a problem.</div></div>

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/haha.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/haha.gif Boy! There's an understatement!!! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif

Great gesture Nick. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/worship.gif

[AutoInsane]

I would take Nick up on his offer. Get the cars out of there and then figure out what to do with them. The sooner the better.

Perhaps call the local PD and let them know about the situation and that you have authorized someone to pick your cars up...

[L78biscayne]

I AM 20 MIN. AWAY IF I CAN HELP

[sixtiesmuscle]

I just came upon this thread &amp; got caught up. All I can say is that if a guy named Nick Morocco showed up with another guy that goes by &quot;Gorilla&quot;, the cars would probably be loaded in short order, and, put away for safe keeping.

[Postsedan]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sixtiesmuscle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just came upon this thread &amp; got caught up. All I can say is that if a guy named Nick Morocco showed up with another guy that goes by &quot;Gorilla&quot;, the cars would probably be loaded in short order, and, put away for safe keeping. </div></div>

Ha, x2

Dan

[talwell]

I spoke to the shop owner today in regards to this matter. I requested the ability to have someone (one of the many helpful Yenko.net members) inspect my vehicles and remove the coupe if it is completed as stated.

He clearly stated that noone will be authorized to come into his shop to inspect my vehicles. I suggested that if this is a problem that he can roll them out into the parking lot or even bring them to another location for inspection but he clearly stated that there will be no inspections and that if that is not acceptable to call his attorney.

Well, I did just that. I spoke with his attorney who the owner has already spoken to. As a side note - I have been in business for years and never needed an attorney to help me with my business, I guess this is a sign of what type of person and or company I am dealing with. I demanded I have a chosen party come and inspect my coupe that is supposed to be complete on Oct. 10 and also at this time inspect my convertible that is supposed to be in process of completion. As well, I stated that if my coupe is complete I will have it removed and expect a refund of the overpayment for work that will no longer be completed. At that time I also expect one of two things - either my convertible is completed in a reasonable amount of time (2 weeks is my idea of reasonable) or I expect an immediate refund of all monies paid towards that car. The only thing the attorney suggested is that he would like to be present during this Oct. 10 inspection period. I also agreed to only send (1) person at this time (owner must have had prior experiences with multiple people intimidating them).

So the drama continues. I appreciate all the help being offered and I am expecting a returned call from the attorney next week for confirmation of this agreement. Lets hope that this method will resolve the issue otherwise I know we also have other options.

[ORIGLS6]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sixtiesmuscle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just came upon this thread &amp; got caught up. All I can say is that if a guy named Nick Morocco showed up with another guy that goes by &quot;Gorilla&quot;, the cars would probably be loaded in short order, and, put away for safe keeping. </div></div>

Amen Mike. And we all know they couldn't be in better hands.

[John]

.... Dang,
... I was hoping everyone would show up at the same time
...waving banners saying.... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/Charley.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/Charley.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/Charley.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/Charley.gif

[Xplantdad]

I agree with Mike...and it sounds like the shop owner is covering up....why else would he not allow an inspection?

Send the cars to Rick... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

[gts340]

Hey Nick, I'm in Kingston. If you want a hand loading the cars let me know. I have flexible hours (24-48) and have plenty of experience loading cars. I'm familiar with Woodstock too, grew up next door in Crystal Lake.

Eric

[Smokey]

Forclosure and bankruptcy makes people do funny things. Just sayin...not implying that the shop is. A local guy did the same thing 3-4 years ago.

[talwell]

Cant explain why people do what they do - when you start lying you have to continue to lie to cover up for the prior lies. It is just really bad business.

One way or another it will get resolved and soon - I have had all I can take and at this point I will employ any measures I have to so that I get my cars and or money. People only have so much patience - when you start messing with my money or my family you cross the line and all bets are off.

I look forward to making relationships with new shops in the area - I will try not to let one bad egg spoil the bunch.

[bashton]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SS427</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I disagree with the distance thing Sam. I tell my customers that first and foremost, find a shop that is an expert in the type of car you own. How a shop can restore a VW in one corner, a Duesenberg in the next and a COPO in the third is beyond me. They can make them all pretty but I doubt they are all, if any one, concours correct. Also, if I were to walk into a shop that I wanted to have restore my 69 Camaro or 70 Chevelle as an example and they had several crash and burn insurance jobs on newer cars in the shop I would also turn tail and run unless this shop has two seperate businesses within the business as well as employees. In my 30 years of restoring cars, less then 10 have come from the same state I live/ed in and most were on one or the other coasts.

In order to be successful a shop needs to keep the client well informed, up to date with billing and photographs and continual progress. Make them a part of the restoration process. I have learned some valuable and hard learned lessons in that department recently but needless to say, communication is key. You can give your client their car back that they are 100% happy with but if you have not made the venture pleasurable for them getting there than you have ultimately lost in the end. In todays day and age it is not that hard to 'drop in' on a shop even if located far away especially with business people who are always traveling. Finding an expert on your type of car is more inportant than the convenience fact but that is just my opinion. </div></div>

This sums it up. Reputationa and communication, along with customer referrals is the absolute key to having a great experience.

But, at this point, the thing to do is get your cars out of there asap!

Bashton
MCACN Managing Member

[Charley Lillard]

I think I would mail the titles to Nick along with a letter authorizing him to pick up the cars. Then Nick can bring a police officer with him and pick them both up. Show up unannounced. This guy is stealing your money and will probably steal what he can off the cars. Get back what you can now. I speak from experience by being ripped off by a slick talking deadbeat named Lipke from Castlerock Colorado. Ended up hiring a Private Investigator to find what was left of my car.

[talwell]

Charlie,

Thank you for the advice - sucks to hear that the same has happened to you in the past.

The problem I have is that only one of the cars is mine. The coupe that was sent there for final body work and paint is my car and the convertible I was purchasing from the shop so technically I guess I do not own it until I take possession of the car or title. I have paid for the car in full (only by the shop screwing me over) but the title was never sent to me.

I was assured by thier attorney that I would get a reply next week to my request to inspect the cars and remove my coupe if it was complete. I also demanded a check for the unused balance for work that I told them not to complete due to the circumstances.

If all goes well and the attorney sets a date for this to happen I think I will have Nick go there in an attempt to inspect my cars and remove if possible. Not knowing him but hearing the few comments from other people here I have confidence that he will properly represent my rights. The attorney asked about 3 times how many people I desired to send for inspection - I guess the owner must be aware of the fact that I have had enough of his bullshit and lies and will do what I have to do at this point to recover my propery and money.

Anything short of them agreeing to this I will take alternative measures to recover my monies and property. At that point I could care less if 50 guys go there and barracade them all in the shop until they come out with my cars and money.

[bergy]

I hate that this happened to you. Good, dependable restorers are a precious commodity. When you find one that you can trust (many on this site) - stick with 'em!

Charlie is right about taking the cops with you. Too many crazy people have weapons these days. I've had experience with taking a bunch of &quot;friends&quot; to recover my stuff. We were successful, but it had the potential to be very messy. Looking back - I wouldn't do it again.

[kwhizz]

I hope that some time in the future you will reveal the name of the shop........so others will benefit by not using this guy in the future.......I seem to remember a couple of years ago someone having a like experience from a restorer in the Woodtock area......Hummmm!!!

[resto4u]

I would not go there without the police, just to ensure that this is documented if it should go through the courts. If nick has the title and a noterized letter from you authorizing him as your agent for removal of said vehicle. Do you have proof of payment that all work is paid? This is all that should be needed, and the officer will agree and tell the shop owner to release the vehicle. All officers and police dept. are different, but i hope they don't take the easy way out and say it is a civil matter for the courts. I would also notify the police ahead of time and explain the whole situation.

[talwell]

When the issue is resolved I will disclose the name of the shop that was involved in this. At this time I do not want to add another dynamic of difficulty with the shop discovering this and stating that I am slandering thier business and use this as another means to delay giving me my cars and or money.

I do not want to see anyone else go through what I am going through. Most of us work very hard for our money and our cars mean alot to us so when you mess with either of them it makes for a bad situation. With the help of the Yenko.net guys I am sure we will get this resolved and I will post some pics of the cars once I get them and complete them.

[black69]

I recommend showing up with the right towing company that will scare the xyz out of them. Have them consider the state showing up going through their shop going over 'everything'. My father in law works at a towing company in chicago (melrose park), and they also tow for the state (so they have that connection).

You go in there without the state police on your side, it could get worse for you.

[Glenn L78]

make the appointment, if at all possible get on a plane and go yourself,take Police, titles and have transportation in line....GO GET UM!

[AutoInsane]

I would contact your attorney and get him involved. Probably worth the cost at this juncture.

I would also get the garage to FedEx you the title to the convertible you bought from them. Do you have it in writing that they sold you this car? It would be a shame for you to have invested so much money into the car and then have them back out of the deal.

Best of luck!

[markinnaples]

Just a thought; you may want to consider getting your original car and the money back for the convertible.

Something tells me that if they are this difficult to deal with regarding getting the cars to you, what are the chances their work is at the level you are expecting/deserve?

[talwell]

My proposal to thier attorney was to have my car inspected and returned to me. As to the convertible, I told them I prefer a full refund or if this is not an option that I expect the car to be completed and available for inspection within 2 weeks of the initial Oct. 10th inspection. I am waiting to hear word from the attorney. If he does not contact me back or they are not accepting of these terms then at that time I will be more aggressive about protecting my position.

[Mr70]

Thanks for the update.
Like others,let me know if I can be of any help.

[talwell]

Appears as though this shop's attorney is not going to call me back. I was supposed to receive a call this week from them confirming the shop owners response to my demands but neither of them has responded to my requests.

Being that I dont have the title for the car I purchased from them this creates an issue as far as confiscating that car. My coupe I can probably take but the convertible will not be as easy.

Sounds to me like it is time to send a few very intimidating guys there to let them know I am not rolling over and letting them screw me.

[AutoInsane]

Well, I would talk to your lawyer first. If you have paperwork proving that you paid for the convertible you should be able to either get your money back or get the car.

It should be somewhat easy to have someone go and get the other car with title and documentation in hand with the help of some members and the local PD.

You could also contact Jon Draneas thorugh Sports Car Market magazine. He is an expert in automotive legal matters.

[Steven J]

Is this the place ?

http://camarosrestored.com/

[talwell]

I tried to PM Nick in regards to paying a visit to the shop. I have not heard back from him.

In regards to dealing with the shop's attorney - he is just as much of an a**hole as the owner is. I finally got him on the phone today and he said the shop owner did not agree to any of my terms.

He said the owner refuses to warranty any work that he does. I told him the Il. state law affords me rights as a consumer. He said dont worry about it then - let the state keep you covered. But at the same time they think I am stupid and want me to sign a waiver upon pickup (if it ever happens) that the owner is not giving a warranty on his work and all work is as-is.

Additionally - he said the owner does not agree with the time frames I have set. I asked him what the problem is and what time frames is the shop looking for. He put me on hold and said he needed to check - he came back on the line and said he will have to call me back. After reminding him that he never called me back last time he said there is nothing he can do. I asked him when I could expect a call back and he said after next weds. When I told him I dont appreciate him playing games with me just like the shop owner does he said it is not a game and that he is going on vacation. I told him this is not acceptable and he simply stated lifes rough and hung up on me.

With this being said it is time for me to push this issue. I need to immediately get someone to go there to pickup whatever is done and to press the issue on my other car or my money. I will gladly cover any expenses that are incurred and deeply appreciate that all of you are willing to help a stranger.

[talwell]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Steven J</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is this the place ?

http://camarosrestored.com/


</div></div>

No Comment

[SS427]

It is a$$holes like this guy and his attorney that give us reputable restoration shops and attorneys bad names. An attorney should not be allowed to get away with treating someone like that. If you get your own I would go for the jugular! I understand he does not represent you but he should at least act within the law and treat you fairly. Maybe he is acting within the law but what an a$$!

[kwhizz]

Yep!!!......I agree with Rick........Lawyers think they are above the Law (except for NJSteve) and use Intimidation as their most Powerful weapon because most people are afraid of them....99% of the Lawyers make the other 1% look bad.......This guy sounds like he's in the 99% group (unlike NJSteve who is in the &quot;Good&quot; 1%)

[talwell]

I agree that it is totally unprofessional to think that they can handle someone like this. It would seem that the team of the shop owner and the attorney work well together using the same business ethics.

With this being said, I would like any help I can get in getting someone to the shop to recover what I can.

[92646]

Todd, make hard copies of all these posts, all your receipts, records and any notes from your conversations with the body shop. Not saying this is the shop that is being referred to but if I read between the lines I bet the convertible that is on the web page is for sale right now. They are stalling for some reason and I am not sure you are dealing with a real attorney. Take time off from work and make an appointment with the local police department now then show them what you have to see if you can get your car(s) back now to minimize your losses because time is working against you. By chance is the one car in your name insured? If so try getting your insurance company involved.
Mark Sheppard

[njsteve]

Guys, thanks for the compliment (I think <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif).

Seriously though, get the number for the local police department that covers that town and call their detective bureau ASAP. Tell them this is not a civil matter: your car has been stolen, which according to the fact pattern you are describing, it has. Tell them where the shop is and give them all the paperwork and info you can.

I will guarantee you that the name of the shop won't be a surprise to the local police there.

[Xplantdad]

Steve...you rock...Talwell, do this stuff immediately. Let's hope for the best <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

[kwhizz]

If you can co-ordinate with the local police....I can go there with a trailer and get one of the cars.......If you can work it out to get both.......then Jeff has a trailer that can handle up to 20 cars.....LOL

Ken

[markinnaples]

Any updates? Best of luck.

[sixtnine]

I just skimmed this whole thread. As a business owner I have to admit there are good shops and bad shops out there no matter what type of work is involved. I think the board members have gave you some good advice as to how you should handle the situation. It is obvious the shop owner is not willing to work with you, nor is his lawyer. It sounds to me like the best thing to do is get your cars back asap, no matter the condition they are in. I would try to document everything that has taken place. I would contact the authorities in the area of the shop, with your intentions to pick up your cars. I would show up at the shop with documents, local authorities, and a way to transport your vehicles, unannounced. On a side note I lost both my parents within the past year and a half, plus my soul mate had a miscarriage two years ago. Life will always have its ups and downs. I just wanted to say I can somewhat &quot;relate&quot; to the spot your life is in on a personal level. I guess my point is that you should stop waiting on something to change here and handle all this yourself. It seems there are several AWESOME board members here who are willing to help you pick up your cars. To me it sounds like an opportunity to make some new and lifelong friends. This shop you are dealing with will continue to run over you if you continue to let them. I wish you the best of luck.

[Steven J]

When you contact the police, you may be informed that it is a civil matter. Hopefully you will be able to speak with someone that is willing to help. At the very least, inform them that someone will be going to the shop to pick up your property, with proof of ownership, and ask them to stand by in case there is a problem. I don't recall the status of money owed on your car, but expect that the shop will refuse to release it if they claim that the bill has not been paid.

Good luck, hope it all works out.

[AutoInsane]

Any update??

[chevy427450]

Todd,

I just sent you a PM.

Nick

[jeff morocco]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kwhizz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> .......then Jeff has a trailer that can handle up to 20 cars.....LOL

Ken </div></div>
21 to be exact !! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

[AutoInsane]

So.... were the cars returned????

[talwell]

No - I have been told that I can pick up my coupe. Anyone in the area that can grab one car and hold it for me?

[kwhizz]

I can get it next week if required.......I'll be out of town till Sunday..........

Ken

[talwell]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kwhizz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can get it next week if required.......I'll be out of town till Sunday..........

Ken </div></div>

Things are heating up with this shop again and now they are trying to charge me storage on my car that they say has been done for (2) weeks.

Ken - I will gladly cover all expenses, are you still available to go grab this car for me?

[kwhizz]

Yep!!......I can go on Wednesday.......No problem.....pm me the info.....

Ken

[Glenn L78]

Were u able to get the cars ?

[talwell]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Glenn L78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Were u able to get the cars ? </div></div>

No - I flew to Chicago yesterday and contacted the shop and told them I was coming to inspect my cars. The owner refused and told me just to call his attorney.

Spoke with the attorney and apparently they are working on a release where I will get my car back that I sent there, a refund for the work not completed and a full refund for the convertible that I paid for that has never been produced.

[ORIGLS6]

Ya know, there's gonna be a whole Army of car-guys in West Chicago this weekend. Plenty of trucks, ...... trailers, .... muscle, ......... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/whistle.gif

I'm just sayin .............. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif

[Smokey]

And I will have a 409 cop car and a enclosed trailer that can hold 2 cars.

[talwell]

Thanks for all the support. I am pressing hard now to get my car(s). I would love to fly back out again for the meet and to get my car(s).

[agtw31]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Steven J</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is this the place ?

http://camarosrestored.com/


</div></div>

they cleaned out their facebook page.
hmmmm.. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/cool.gif

[AutoInsane]

Did you get your car / cars out ?? Hope it is all working out ....

[talwell]

No - did not get my cars yet. In the next few days I hope to have some better news. Flew there a few weeks ago and the shop owner refused me access to see my cars. At this point I am supposed to get my coupe back and a refund for the convertible that was never produced.

Thanks for the regards - if this last effort does not do the trick, the only option I have left is hiring an attorney to file suit against the owner of the company. I also intend to file a consumer complaint, BBB complaint and an ARDC complaint against thier attorney who has made this a comical issue rather than treating it with any level of profession.

Once resolved I promise to provide more details with specifics.

-Todd

[Fast67VelleN2O]

Todd,

How you are maintaing your cool about all this is beyond me.

-Matt

[talwell]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fast67VelleN2O</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Todd,

How you are maintaing your cool about all this is beyond me.

-Matt </div></div>

I am really not - but all of us know sometimes when you are getting f*cked it is better to maintain your composure in order to get the situation resolved. I think in this case if I were to go there to crack thier heads open it would only get me arrested and make any type of resolution harder. Even though he deserves to have his head cracked open like a walnut, I am hoping that staying on the right side of the law will be in my favor.

[Salvatore]

cracking heads is good therapy sometimes Todd. may not be right but satisfying. But....don't do it!

[Charley Lillard]

If you have a title you can just take a police officer with you and go get your car.

[TDW]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: talwell</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have a title you can just take a police officer with you and go get your car. </div></div>

Illinois is very strict - when I sent the car there the person I bought it from had removed the vin tag and trim tag when the cowl, firewall and other work was done. I have the vin tag here - Illinois can confiscate the car just for it not being on it. This is the main reason I cannot get overly aggressive and force confiscation. </div></div>

Yikes!!! He could bend you over a barrel!!! As in &quot;here's the car that you brought me, this rusted up hulk right here&quot;. Couldn't he?

[talwell]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TDW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Yikes!!! He could bend you over a barrel!!! As in &quot;here's the car that you brought me, this rusted up hulk right here&quot;. Couldn't he? </div></div>

Yes and no. I know the hidden vins on the body so unless he cut and transplanted it would be an issue.

I put nothing past them. I wish this upon noone. We are supposed to enjoy this hobby - not having to figure out how to get our cars and money back.

[ORIGLS6]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: talwell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Illinois is <span style="font-weight: bold">very strict </span>- </div></div>

That's one way to describe Illinois law. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/mad.gif Maybe not the words <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">I</span></span> would use. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/no.gif

[firstgenaddict]

&quot;In order to be successful a shop needs to keep the client well informed, up to date with billing and photographs and continual progress. Make them a part of the restoration process. I have learned some valuable and hard learned lessons in that department recently but needless to say, communication is key. You can give your client their car back that they are 100% happy with but if you have not made the venture pleasurable for them getting there than you have ultimately lost in the end.&quot;


Rick
It is ironic you say this as I had a conversation over lunch with a local US District attorney and he stated that the number one complaint they received about lawyers was that they did not communicate. The &quot;customer&quot; had no idea where the case stood good or bad.

He stated that they have found that as long as the lawyer kept the person informed as to the progress and status of the case they were satisfied with the results and would use the lawyer/recommend them to others. If they received shoddy work where they actually had a malpractice case they were satisfied when kept up to date. If they received excellent work and were not kept up to date they were dissatisfied and upset...

[SS427]

Perfect example you listed Jag. We just recently completely a 9 month long lawsuit (non car related) and won the suit. However, the way we were treated and not kept up to date made winning the lawsuit not very pleasurable. When I asked our attorney why I always had to send an email asking for updates since we had heard nothing in many weeks or months he stated that he would have to charge me to send me an email. Since he charged us to respond to my email anyway I did not see his point. It cost us half of what we were rewarded in the suit on a case that he stated was an &quot;open and shut case&quot;. He was friends (casual in his words) with the defendents attorney and I am pretty sure they milked this suit on both ends so as to both make more money. I just wonder some times how these people sleep at night. Needless to say, he will NEVER be used by me or anyone I know again. He like many others will charge their clients for every ounce of toilet paper they use to wipe their a$$es. Maybe I grew up in a different area but I do not charge my customers for a lot of things I do for them such as cleaning the shop, sending them updates, photos, research, car shows, etc. It used to be called good customer service.

[Steven J]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have a title you can just take a police officer with you and go get your car. </div></div>

Aside from the VIN problem, if the shop says that there is money owed on the work done to the car, the police will more than likley advise that it is a civil problem and not help to retrieve the car.

[Xplantdad]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SS427</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Perfect example you listed Jag. We just recently completely a 9 month long lawsuit (non car related) and won the suit. However, the way we were treated and not kept up to date made winning the lawsuit not very pleasurable. When I asked our attorney why I always had to send an email asking for updates since we had heard nothing in many weeks or months he stated that he would have to charge me to send me an email. Since he charged us to respond to my email anyway I did not see his point. It cost us half of what we were rewarded in the suit on a case that he stated was an &quot;open and shut case&quot;. He was friends (casual in his words) with the defendents attorney and I am pretty sure they milked this suit on both ends so as to both make more money. I just wonder some times how these people sleep at night. Needless to say, he will NEVER be used by me or anyone I know again. He like many others will charge their clients for every ounce of toilet paper they use to wipe their a$$es. Maybe I grew up in a different area but I do not charge my customers for a lot of things I do for them such as cleaning the shop, sending them updates, photos, research, car shows, etc. It used to be called good customer service. </div></div>


Yep...billable hours(and minutes and seconds)... are a laugh...and a pain...

[talwell]

Good news - I received a settlement agreement today from thier attorney. In the settlement I will get exactly what is owed to me and I will get my car back. Got agreement signed and overnighted back to the attorney. Hopefully by this time next week I will have my car back and have the funds back to start construction on another '69 convertible.

As for my car that is coming back - I have a built LSX427, T6060 6-Speed, ZR1 dual disc clutch, Ford 9&quot; shortened for 12&quot; rear wheels and Baer 4 wheel discs. The 427 is getting twin turbos and should conservatively push 900-1000hp on pump gas and 1200+ on race fuel. It has been a long wait but hopefully by spring we will be done and I can enjoy this monster. My 2010 Camaro is pushing over 700hp but this car should be a completely different animal.

[Bill Pritchard]

That's great news....and I sure hope they hold up their end of the bargain.

[Steven J]

Is this it ?


http://camarosrestored.com/pro1.html

[talwell]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Steven J</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is this it ?


http://camarosrestored.com/pro1.html


</div></div>

Not my car but mine is exactly the same color scheme. This car I believe they just restored the body and the customer built the drivetrain.

[talwell]

Well Santa is coming a little early this year. After almost a year of battling with this worthless shop I finally have resolved it. I received a refund of all my overpayments on my coupe and a refund on the convertible that never materialized. My coupe is being picked up today and moved into heated storage.

Thank you to everyone that offered advice or to assist me with my car(s). I am glad this is over and now I can get back to work with a clear head on finishing my projects.

The coupe has an LSx 427 waiting for it with a little boost supplied by twin turbos. The car will be pushing about 900hp on pump gas and 1200+ hp on race fuel. Once the car is done I will test it to see if the street manners make it a good driver. I anticipate it will be perfectly fine and a whole lot of fun.

As well, for the convertible that was never built, I am rolling the dice and trying a Dynacorn convertible body. The (2) bodies we purchased from them were picked up today and should be at the shop on Friday. After we do a very careful review of it will be know what we are dealing with. With speaking to people about them I have heard horror stories as well as many people that are satisfied with what they got. I already have a nicely warmed over LS2 and T56 ready to go in the car. With Vintage Air and pro-touring suspension it should be nice when completed.

Yesterday when we were out looking for a subframe we ran across a 1970 Nova that we were going to pick from. Ends up the car is almost rock solid aside from a little firewall collision damage. Now it looks like we have a 1970 Nova to build as well.

[69Tom]

Really happy everything worked out for you. Shop owners like this should be put in prison. They're nothing more than con men.

I have a question on the Dynacorn vert: wouldn't it make more financial sense to find a nice, dry original vert body and build on that? I'm sort of curious as to the resale value (if it came to that) of one of these Dynacorn bodies as there's no original VIN or trim tag. I definitely see the upside to buying one--no body work!!

[talwell]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 69Tom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Really happy everything worked out for you. Shop owners like this should be put in prison. They're nothing more than con men.

I have a question on the Dynacorn vert: wouldn't it make more financial sense to find a nice, dry original vert body and build on that? I'm sort of curious as to the resale value (if it came to that) of one of these Dynacorn bodies as there's no original VIN or trim tag. I definitely see the upside to buying one--no body work!! </div></div>

&quot;nice, dry original vert body&quot; that is the huge problem right there. To try and find even a shell that needs alot of work is getting to be a very challenging. Barrett Jackson and Mecum have made everyone believe they are sitting on gold regardless of what they have.

The other shop I use is in Washington and the DMV is pretty flexible there. We can have the car inspected and issued a new VIN and title rather than trying to move from one to the other. I am not sure I believe that it is appropriate in most any cases to move from one body to another. For us it will be an experiment, if it all works out I will be pleasantly surprised.

[69Tom]

Yes, this is true. I suppose it is much harder to find a dry 'vert body out there than a hardtop.

Not sure if you checked with the Arizona resources here on the boards, but perhaps you might get lucky finding a nice shell.

Again, I definitely can see the upside to using a Dynacorn body. And the DMV must be able to assign a VIN to the body. Otherwise, unless they were used drag cars, those complete shells would be worthless.

[SS427]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 69Tom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Really happy everything worked out for you. Shop owners like this should be put in prison. They're nothing more than con men.
</div></div>

At the very least they should be plastered all over the net so that everyone is familiar with the cons and who they are and not bring cars to them. Eventially they will be out of business for good and onto another way to con people out of their money. What I cannot stand is how it makes us reputable shops guilty until proven innocent. Reputation is everything in this business.

Glad everything finally worked out for you Todd.

[mockingbird812]

Congrats Todd. That has to be one HEAVY load off of your mind. Good luck in the new projects.

[talwell]

The company that I had all the difficulty with is Classic Cars of Mchenry County Inc. - I dont have thier exact address but thier website is www.camarosrestored.com. (http://www.camarosrestored.com)

I would not recommend anyone do business with them and advise anyone you know of the same.

I will post some quick pictures of my coupe that received the $10k paint job over the past 11 months. My guy used words like it looks like someone washed it with Scotch Brite and the gaps are so bad you could slide a cat between them.

In all I could give a sh*t about the quality of the work. I will have the car stripped and done right if I have to. I am just glad these guys no longer have my car(s) or my money. Every dog has thier day - lets just say I believe in karma.

[talwell]

Here is a few pics that I received of the car. I am going to go inspect in person but here is an example of how I got screwed.