Cowl markings on my L-78 M-22 Indy

[iluv69s]

I am getting ready to restore my Indy soon and I can see the cowl markings under the black paint on the firewall, but they are not very clear. What is the best way to clean paint off the cowl without eliminating the markings?

Thanks !!

[resto4u]

plastic media blasting, very carefully.

[m22mike]

Check this out. Those crayon marks were done on bare steel. I stripped this firewall with cheap Kleen strip. It was buzzed with rattle can black, plus the OE lacquer.
The primer underneeth is very tough stuff, work the black off and wipe with lacquer thinner till you get to the gray.
The crayon will be gone, but the primer that was over the marks locks in the image.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/m22mike/parts%20detail/COPO02831.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/m22mike/parts%20detail/COPO02827.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/m22mike/parts%20detail/COPO02826.jpg

Show us the pictures... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif...we like pictures... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif

[mockingbird812]

I like YOUR picts Mikey!

[iluv69s]

Thanks guys..I will try the lacquer thinner method since I have no media at the moment....

And Yeh, great pics Mikey...I will post some pics of my car 'as-is' before I remove the paint... And then some after pics also.....I am in Brasil at the moment but will post some pics when I get back in the US next week..I can see some of the markings, but cannot figure them out...I'm sure you guys probably can help.

Thanks agaian..and thanks SYC

[iluv69s]

Thanks guys..I think I will try the lacquer thinner method since I have no media at the moment....

And Yes, great pics Mike...I will post some pics of my car 'as-is' before I remove the paint... And then some after pics also.....I am in Brasil at the moment but will post some pics when I get back in the US next week..I can see some of the markings, but cannot figure them out...I'm sure you guys probably can help.

Thanks agaian..and thanks SYC

[MosportGreen66]

Awesome photos Mike! Saved for reference!

Thanks,
Dan

[firstgenaddict]

Is that a OR (orange) behind the Z21

[m22mike]

Look closely , it is a big &quot;OK&quot; in yellow, it was over the Z21.

Mike

[Kurt S]

Note that the cowl markings were all under the blackout paint and wouldn't be visible in the finished car. That was the whole purpose of the blackout paint..... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

[Tommy Nolen]

The markings that I have encountered on the earlier cars that I have('61, 62 &amp;63) have been written on the bare steel before any paint has been applied. Of course the firewalls in my '61 &amp; '62 cars were not blacked out, I have used lacquar thinner to remove the paint and the markings are the last thing that comes off. Even then they are etched in the metal. They are visable because they bled through the lacquar paint that was used back then.

[m22mike]

I have noticed those early 60's cars that were painted lighter body colors are much easier to pick up on...sometimes.

Mike

[iluv69s]

got back from brazil yesterday so went and took a few pics. looks like 740?? could be 720 for orange houndstooth?? dont think so...also looks like something else below..I am going to clean this week and see what shows up...will post pics...

this pic is in center of fire wall above tunnel...

[iluv69s]

can see two T,s and 1 P...there is another T and P on other side also...

[iluv69s]

other side of cowl..you can barely see the P and the T

[iluv69s]

cowl hidden VIN and cowl orig. paint...

[iluv69s]

original vin

[iluv69s]

ds door w orig paint showing pinstripe

[iluv69s]

cowl paint pass side

[iluv69s]

ooops that was drivers side//here's pass side..i hiope!!

[iluv69s]

any thoughts on the crayon markings..the car is an L-78 M-22 Indy. (few option), besides mandatory Indy options, L-78, M-22, AM radio, power steering. No console, manual top.

thanks max

[iluv69s]

thought this pic would help of the whole cowl..to get an idea of the location of the markings...sorry for the quality..(ifone pics)...

[resto4u]

So on the 69 pacers there is no x22 or x66 on cowl tag. Do you have an x2 or x6 on the rear seat divder?

[iluv69s]

Actually the Indy Pace Cras had the Z-ll package...which was denoted as Z-11 on the cowl tag. This package included mandatory Rally sport/ Super Sport/ Conv. with the special orange and white paint and orange houndstooth interior.

But something I did not think of...would the car have maybe a Z-1 on the seat divider??? Did the Indys have anything typically there?? I will check later today..I am curious now.

[TXSS]

This documented survivor L78 Pace Car has an XO on the seat divider.

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/Family%20Stuff%20003.JPG

Another original pinstripe shot

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/DSCF5407.JPG

[mockingbird812]

&quot;XO&quot; as in kisses &amp; hugs?

[iluv69s]

stopped by and took a look at my car...seems to be nothing on the seat divider...but I spent about 1 hour with lacquer thinner on the cowl and firewall...wowww...there is a whole lot more old crayon marks there than I thought. Interesting stuff. Some makes sense..some doesnt..?? Im sure you guys can help.

i will post some pics later when I have more time...

[iluv69s]

So i started with lacquer thinner on the center of the cowl above the tunnel where the obvious marks were...these letters appeared at first.. I think I know what they are now, but I'd like others opinions first.....

[iluv69s]

then I started to wipe above the heater box area with lacque thinner and remains of these letters started to appear...I was very intrigued...my car was telling a story...verifying itself....

[iluv69s]

a little more lacquer thinner and this on the left side above the heater box opening...you can barely see the first number...

date code??

[iluv69s]

and ths was really cool to me... two option codes?? any guesses?

what is that hole I wonder?? Any body seen a hole made like that before? that is nor factory is it?? an old tach hole or guage or something?? and how did they do that I wonder?

[iluv69s]

and after cleaning further in the center....

appears some other numbers below...and apparently numbers uder the very first numbers?? this is where i am lost a bit...

it is probably harder to tell in the pics than in person..

[iluv69s]

thought this was interesting orange overspray on the cowl on the lip of the wiper motor hole...apparently came out the wiper motor hole in the cowl when they sprayed the cowl orange...??

[iluv69s]

I removed the heater box and hetaer core for the first time a little while back. I believe there were crayon marks and/or date codes if I remember.

I will post pics if anyone interested.

[iluv69s]

full cowl pic..to get a reference..

[m22mike]

Neat.. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

[camaromb]

Nice to see such an original L78 pace car without the rattle can paint treatment! The factory sealant is still visible over the cowl vin stamp, like rubber cement. The factory used it to protect the bare metal exposed when the vin was stamped through the paint. You don't often see that survive.
Thanks for posting the pics.

[iluv69s]

I marked up what I think I see....

3 06... Date code March 6th..03D car

Z22..Rally Sport Option
M22..4speed trans option

W..white paint..???
D80.. spoiler package

These markings I have no clue..??

1) DIY or b/c (below the W)...??????? (Now thinking it is b/c for basecoat..?? possibly??

2) (in the center below the D80)...6T..or 67..or 61....or upside down 49??? or could it be a g for the first letter??


3) seems to be other letters below the D80..(underneath each other but in the same space)now thinking possibly the whole word white?? written first..and D80 later written overtop ??

any ideas?? am I wrong on the other markings?? thanks...

[iluv69s]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: iluv69s</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and after cleaning further in the center....

appears some other numbers below...and apparently numbers uder the very first numbers?? this is where i am lost a bit...

it is probably harder to tell in the pics than in person.. </div></div>

after staring at this for a while I beieve it is not DIY below the W...it is actually b/c..... anyone know is that typical?? seems to make sense.... <span style="font-weight: bold"> </span> w <span style="font-weight: bold"> </span> hite <span style="font-weight: bold"> </span> b <span style="font-weight: bold"> </span> ase <span style="font-weight: bold"> </span> c <span style="font-weight: bold"> </span> oat...I'm still looking for the 'or/str' markings somewhere...(am I fishing here or what?? )haha

[William]

Dual exhaust cars usually have N10.

[iluv69s]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: William</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dual exhaust cars usually have N10. </div></div>

Would that be true on verts also?? Since all verts had the ds exhaust plate welded to the frame rail didn't they?

I assume the options written on the firewall are for the assembly line workers to know any alterations to the stock body at the Fisher plant..that is: M-22 4 speed cut-out, Z-22 RS hole piercings in firewall and trunk for hoses, etc. D-80 hole piercing for rear spoiler in decklid...therefore N-10 would be needed to show the plate needed welded on a hardtop...may still be present on verts also, but seems not really needed.

Dont know what is the norm..I do not see N-10 anywhere though. I will do more investigating and cleaning soon..and I will bring my camera and take some better pics.

[Unreal]

Convertibles had a heavier wall frame rail, so no reinforcing plate for the exhaust.

[iluv69s]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Unreal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Convertibles had a heavier wall frame rail, so no reinforcing plate for the exhaust. </div></div>

Ok thanks,,so that's how it goes..haha...but they are the same then yes...69 Conv.s with and without dual exhaust?? No exhaust plate welded on the driver's side like the coupes with duals??
My point is..would there be any difference in the conv. body with N10 dual exhaust or without so that would warrant the GM workers to write N10 on the firewall of convertibles? just curious?? I'm sure anything could happen...

I actually at first thought ZL2 was on the firewall for the cowl induction piercings, until I cleande further and realized it was Z22...

[iluv69s]

It is cool...My friend stopped by last night and said &quot;You finally found a build sheet for your Indy !! Right on the firewall itself..&quot;

The original born-with M-22 rock-crusher trans proves the car also, but this is like a build sheet of the car. Imagine, these are the markings that were read straight from the build sheet and written on my car when it first showed up on the assembly line in the fisher plant...before anything else was touched on the body..it was the same as any other conv. body...could have ended up a six cylinder !!

I love this part of the hobby...I'm still learning more and more about these cars everyday!!

If only I could find the owner prior to 1975!!

[firstgenaddict]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: iluv69s</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and ths was really cool to me... two option codes?? any guesses?

what is that hole I wonder?? Any body seen a hole made like that before? that is nor factory is it?? an old tach hole or guage or something?? and how did they do that I wonder? </div></div>


I am going to guess that the heater core was replaced at some point in time and the push on retainer which holds the inside heater box to the firewall was not taken into consideration thus the doctrine of &quot;if it doesn't come apart, GET a BIGGER HAMMER&quot; prevailed.

[resto4u]

d14 or ?14

[iluv69s]

is d-14 an option code??

it looks like the orig hetaer core..I assume this is a date code??? Feb 69 for an 03D car..seems to make sense...??

[Kurt S]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: iluv69s</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thought this was interesting orange overspray on the cowl on the lip of the wiper motor hole...apparently came out the wiper motor hole in the cowl when they sprayed the cowl orange...??</div></div>
I believe they blew body color into the plenum area via the wiper hole. I've seen this on other Z's. I betcha there's orange on the underside of the cowl in that area....

[olredalert]

----Boy,,,Id be pressure testing that heater core!......Bill S

[firstgenaddict]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: olredalert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">----Boy,,,Id be pressure testing that heater core!......Bill S </div></div>

For sure... coolant on the feet is not a pleasant experience, which inevitably will happen at the least opportune moment... like in the middle of cruising on a HOT summer night.

There is probably a line number or sequence number in red pencil on the top of the heater box, should also be on the gas tank as well as other components. It may match the number on the far pass side of the firewall.