Matching Numbers L89 Camaro

[talwell]

There is a car listed on eBay now that the owners says is a matching numbers car. The listing shows a protecto-plate and a window sticker showing the L89 option.

It is a nice car - the question I have is if it is a numbers matching car why does it have an "LI" stamped block and not a "JJ"?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-CHEV...=item4600d70e00 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-CHEVROLET-CAMARO-RS-SS-NUMBERS-MATCHING-CAR-4-SPEED-/300661804544?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item4600d70e00 )

[mockingbird812]

Look closer, I think it does say "JJ". Unfortunately it is painted over. Conveniently the head gasket is blocking the surface of the block in the all important transition area.

[talwell]

Yes, I guess I was looking at the wrong angle. I can now see the "JJ" stamping but yes, as you say where the broach marks would be are covered by head gasket.

To me the protecto-plate and window sticker look very crisp and fresh for being 43 years old. Also, the handwriting style on the warranty book looks like a very modern style - I dont recall ever seeing anyone using this type of script print that many years ago. The window sticker has all perfect edges - not a single tear or deviation on it and any sticker that I have ever removed from a new car I found that nearly impossible to do. Maybe the glue back then was weaker than they use today.

[the427king]

The window sticker looks like it was put on diamond plate and run over

[bergy]

Chambered exhaust in October of '69 on a US delivered car!!!!!

[1969L78Nova]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: the427king</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The window sticker looks like it was put on diamond plate and run over </div></div>

Also...The last six numbers of VIN on the window sticker should be stamped on ( not typed ). The stamped font is usually quite larger and not in line with the first part if the VIN.

[SS427]

From what I remember, everyone was using 3 to 4 digits when abbreviating a state back then. Suck as Minn not MN or Cal NOT CA, ILL not IL. This POP is MD. Just a casual observation and not sure how Maryland was abbreviated back then.

[kwhizz]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: the427king</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The window sticker looks like it was put on diamond plate and run over </div></div>


<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

[talwell]

I noticed that on the window sticker as well - fully typed vin. Here is a good window sticker:


http://www.yenko.net/attachments/299571-007.JPG

[mockingbird812]

That is a nicely equipped L89 Camaro! I have noticed how popular, in 69 anyway, that door edge guards were for Chevelles too.

[69biscayne]

&quot;THIS CAR HAS A PROTECTO PLATE AND WINDOW STICKER!&quot;

Notice they don't say &quot;original&quot; and if you read the small print at the end it say's:

&quot;The seller shall not be responsible for the correct description, authenticity, genuineness or defects herein, and makes no warranty in connection therewith&quot;

Nothing they say say's this is an original L89.

[mockingbird812]

Very laffable! If the seller is not responsible for the correct description, then who is?

[Charley Lillard]

I'm told it is a restamped L78

[PeteLeathersac]

Another great example of how 'matching #'s' = BS..
Great looking car but if it ever was a real 78, nice way to ruin it!.

VIN 124379N690720

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/bs.gif
~ Pete

[Stefano]

Would a '69 Camaro built this late have the VIN stamped on the front pad?

[talwell]

[quote=Stefano]Would a '69 Camaro built this late have the VIN stamped on the front pad? [/quote

Another good point...these guys have to go back to school before they can fool you guys. $120k for a fake car - I really hope nobody falls for it. One of the pre-restoration shows the X22 trim tag and looks legit - should have left it the way it was born.

[subyman99]

my 68 l78 car has that same style window sticker, not all are &quot;stamped&quot; and the window sticker is still in the window (never removed). Check out Jerry Mcneishes book. He talks about this style.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&amp;Number=468756&amp;page=4
Matt

But i do agree... that window sticker looks to new - aged to look old...

[Mr70]

The camaro window sticker in the eBay auction,is clearly a modern day reproduction available on the market today.
I'm not going to say why,as I don't want to tell a forger what to correct,but it's clearly visible to me.
I'm 100% certain it's not 43 years old,more like 3.

[TimG]

Very early cars can have the VIN completly typed. I've seen this with Corvettes. I believe they could not release a window sticker before a certain date as the cars could not be sold before a certain date. The window stickers were mailed to the dealer when the cars could be sold. I've also seen a few later window stickers with the typed VIN. I don't know of a reason for those, though.
The fonts arent correct on this WS, though.

[Mr.Nickey Nova]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stefano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Would a '69 Camaro built this late have the VIN stamped on the front pad? </div></div>

Steve,
I also caught that,should be down by the oil filter.If you look at the stamp you'll see how deep it is and not that straight,can we say restamp.

[DW31S]

The window sticker in the ad is for Park Circle Chevrolet which is gone. Jerry MacNeish and I grew up in Baltimore and we both still live relatively close. The name on the warranty and P-O-P is Jerome Bennett---I don't know him, but MacNeish may and may remember the car. If I can I'll call and ask him if he knows about the guy or the car.

[Kurt S]

Back when the car was on ebay in 2000, it had no docs.
Decked block - acid revealed T04___L - L78 code. Looks like a new block grew with some magic beans. And some docs too.....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1969L78Nova</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: the427king</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The window sticker looks like it was put on diamond plate and run over </div></div>

Also...The last six numbers of VIN on the window sticker should be stamped on ( not typed ). The stamped font is usually quite larger and not in line with the first part if the VIN. </div></div> There is an example in Jerrys book where the whole vin # is typed.

[mockingbird812]

Great info Kurt. Thanks for passing it on! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif sharing this type od info makes this site invaluable!

[Postsedan]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kurt S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Back when the car was on ebay in 2000, it had no docs.
Decked block - acid revealed T04___L - L78 code. Looks like a new block grew with some magic beans. And some docs too..... </div></div>

Kurt, Great PI work!

Dan

[Kurt S]

No problem guys.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: frankk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is an example in Jerrys book where the whole vin # is typed. </div></div>
Yup, but about 97% of all NOR window stickers I've seen have been stamped.....

[Steve Shauger]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kurt S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No problem guys.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: frankk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is an example in Jerrys book where the whole vin # is typed. </div></div>
Yup, but about 97% of all NOR window stickers I've seen have been stamped.....</div></div>

I believe if the dealer requested a copy of the window sticker, prior to the car delivery, they would get the non stamped vin version as referenced above. I believe they were requested copies by the dealer. My blue survivor has this type of W/S. They were never affixed to the window.

[TimG]

I've also heard that if the car was early and shipped before the allowed sales date, the window sticker was sent later. Many of these typed window stickers have evidence of being folded.

[Kurt S]

What I've seen is that early WS's often had errors on them and pricing might not been fixed - thus, were mailed to the dealer.

It couldn't all be due to the sales date cause I see a car shipped over a week after Sept 19th, 68 that has a typed VIN.

[wagonman]

IMHO Restamp!

I do beleive an 09 Nor car would have the partial vin near the oil filter.not on the pad.

[talwell]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-CHEV...=item4603692fa3 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-CHEVROLET-CAMARO-RS-SS-NUMBERS-MATCHING-CAR-4-SPEED-/300704935843?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&amp;hash=item4603692fa3 )

This car is back again. I sent an email to the seller that he should take a look at this thread and re-think selling the car as a numbers matching documented car.

He replied back to me that both myself and Yenko.net will be in alot of trouble if we do not remove these &quot;false&quot; statements about this real L89 car.

Also, he did say that the window sticker was printed up by someone for the owner of the car when I revealed to him that is was wrong. He still insists the car is a real L89 despite the evidence to the contrary.