65 Impala SS409 4sp Triple Black Vert Find-Value?

[bulletpruf]

Fellas -

I have located what is said to be a triple black 65 Impala SS409 convertible 4 sp. Car is said to be complete and original (down to the hubcaps), but has been eaten up a bit by the tin worm. Will need floors and not sure what else.

Engine apparently has been decked; no stamp evident.

I'm guessing that the only way to document this car would be with a build sheet or at least a VIN stamp on the engine that matches the car's VIN, right? Other than that, I'm stuck with what I can decode from the trim tag, correct?

Anyone want to hazard a guess on value? Figure something that needs a complete resto. I have no experience with 348/409 or Impalas. My Chevy's have all been Chevelles and Camaros.

Any thoughts on what a car like this would be worth concours restored and documented (build sheet, owner history, etc)?

Worst case scenario - I buy it and it turns out to be a clone - any thoughts on value as a parts car?

Sorry for the 20 questions, but I'm kind of lost here.

Thanks in advance for any info.

Scott

[Postsedan]

Scott,

I would post as many pics as you can....there is a wealth of knowledge on here, but pictures will really be helpful.

Dan

[BARRY]

what 409 engine HP

[PeteLeathersac]

What GM plant was it built at?
Especially w/ this era B-Body it's always worth checking for Canadian plant builds thus GM Canada Vintage Services paperwork available.
Not sure on your concours resto'd value question, do you have a build sheet?
Sounds like a cool car, best o' luck!


<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif
~ Pete

[olredalert]

----I could be mistaken but I think that there was only one HP for a 409 in 65, low horse.
----I saw a twin to this car that was loaded with every option, even AC, nicely restored and at B-J several years ago. It brought (are you ready?) over $70,000. The kicker,,,The car was a small block (probably 283) when manufactured and it was fairly apparent. Of course, thats a B-J anomaly but take it for what its worth. I talked to the new owner in the bar that day and gently asked him WHY he bought a made up car. He just said he liked it and would probably bring it back to B-J next year and make some money on it. TRUE STORY!!!.....Bill S

[Fast67VelleN2O]

You could also get a 400hp 409 in 1965

[olredalert]

----I stand corrected. How was that 400 carbureted?.....Bill S

[novadude]

The 400hp had a single AFB, Solid cam.

[PeteLeathersac]

RPO L33 - 409/340 - 1 x 4Bbl - Hydraulic
RPO L31 - 409/400 - 1 x 4Bbl - Solid

W-motors were also factory available in '65 Canadian B-Body Pontiacs and assembly line installation continued after the Feb/65 Chevrolet change-over to MK1V engines.
THE last 409 built was a Canadian built Pontiac!


<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif
~ Pete

[Verne_Frantz]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: olredalert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">----I stand corrected. How was that 400 carbureted?.....Bill S </div></div>

It was a 3783S AFB Bill. The carbs are plentiful because they were the over the counter replacement for the 1xbbl hi-perf '62s and '63s and OEM on '64s. The first thing the potential buyer should do is check the build date on the cowl tag. 409s weren't offered after January. There was a month delay in orders until it was replaced by the 396 MKIV.

Verne

[bulletpruf]

Fellas -

Saw the car today. Fairly complete, but rusty.

VIN is 166675F188XXX - 1965 Impala SS convt, 8 cylinder, Flint build.

Build date is 02A - first week of February 1965.

Trim is 815 - black vinyl buckets.

Paint is A2 - Tuxedo Black (assume the 2 is the top color but didn't see that on the decoder).

Manual trans hump evident; looks original. Has a 12 bolt.

It has a W motor with an AFB.

I can post some pics tomorrow.

Thanks

Scott

[PeteLeathersac]

Wasn't the changeover to Mk1V at most plants actually mid month Feb. so the 02A build close but still possible as a factory W-motor?
An original rad tag would help if there also did you happen to get engine castings/dates or distrib. #'s?
What engine callout emblems are there and does all look original from both sides of the fender?
Any differences w/ rear ratios or tachs supplied w/ MK1v's or W-power Verne?


<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif
~ Pete

[Verne_Frantz]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PeteLeathersac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wasn't the changeover to Mk1V at most plants actually mid month Feb. so the 02A build close but still possible as a factory W-motor?
An original rad tag would help if there also did you happen to get engine castings/dates or distrib. #'s?
What engine callout emblems are there and does all look original from both sides of the fender?
<span style="font-weight: bold">Any differences w/ rear ratios or tachs supplied w/ MK1v's or W-power Verne?</span>

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif
~ Pete </div></div>

I can't answer that Pete because I don't have the Finger Tip Facts for '65 which would list the standard equipment combinations. My guess is that they would be the same since the specs on the two engines are pretty close. I have to question the Feb build because I always believed there was about a month where all big block orders were held up for the changeover. I've spoken to original owners who tried to order an '09 in Jan and were told they couldn't get it. But since this sounds like an unrestored car, there should be plenty of believable evidence on it.
BTW, the &quot;2&quot; does mean a black top.

Verne <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

[bulletpruf]

It's kind of crusty...

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/sd_walters/Cars/100_3476.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/sd_walters/Cars/100_3486.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/sd_walters/Cars/100_3484.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/sd_walters/Cars/100_3482.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/sd_walters/Cars/100_3480.jpg


http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/sd_walters/Cars/100_3478.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/sd_walters/Cars/100_3488.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/sd_walters/Cars/100_3490.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/sd_walters/Cars/100_3492.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/sd_walters/Cars/100_3494.jpg

[Verne_Frantz]

Well, first of all, that carb is a Rochester 4GC as used on 250hp 327s, the intake is cast iron so the heads are low perf. The valve covers are from a truck and I don't see any evidence of a ballast resistor, just the resistance wire to the coil (meaning low perf). There's a slight possiblilty it could have been a 340hp to begin with but the carb, valve covers and pulleys were changed.?
Verne <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

Also, since the body was built at Euclid, then rail shipped to Flint for final assembly, there's VERY little chance it was an original 409.

[markinnaples]

Yikes.

[iluv69s]

I remember seeing in hemmings (atleast 10 and maybe 15 years ago) a 65 Impala advertised as 'the last 409 built'..it was 7500 bucks, and needed restored, if my memory serves me. I was tempted to call and look into it as I went thru a 65-666 Impala phase. Dnt remember if it was advertised as the 'last Impala 409' or the last 409.

[SS427]

Great eye and knowledge Verne! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

[x Baldwin Motion]

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/sd_walters/Cars/100_3484.jpg

Looks like just two holes in front fender for emblem. In 65, 283 had just the flags, all others had cubic inch numerals above flags (four holes in fender) not saying this is or is not an original 409 or 283 car, just an observation of the fender. good luck <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

[Verne_Frantz]

The car is a real 4-spd car but you couldn't order a 4-spd behind a 283.

Verne <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/wink.gif

[bulletpruf]

Thanks for all the responses.

Owner wants $5k for the car. I'm pretty sure he doesn't have any paperwork on it, but I will confirm. With no paperwork, I'm not interested at that price.

Thanks,

Scott

[John]

...How much is the QUILT ?

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif

[Verne_Frantz]

I was also wondering what the purpose of the quilt was........... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif

[njsteve]

If it's another New Yawk car, it's for covering up the rust, rats, and roaches. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif

[bulletpruf]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: John</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

...How much is the QUILT ?

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif </div></div>

Quilt is $5k; if you buy the quilt, the car is free <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif

[bulletpruf]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it's another New Yawk car, it's for covering up the rust, rats, and roaches. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif </div></div>

It's a Georgia car, but methinks it's still covering up the same stuff...

[TAR6569]

The conv top piece that goes over the windshield is really rotted away on the drivers side. The car was on ebay a few weeks ago, see item# 251024778104 The car could have been a 283/220 (283 with 4bbl carb) but they did make some fullsize cars 65-67 with the base 283 and M20 4spd.

It would be interesting to see the rear axle code.

Warren

[TAR6569]

Also, the holes in the fender for the flags and engine size emblem are the same for 283, 327 and 409.