Genera lMotors becoming China Motors???

[Xplantdad]

BBBenny sent this to me to post...

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[beater68427]

It is sad in so many ways.. I do not want to get political but we are living and seeing a major change in society business and govenment our opinions may never agree with change but will also never change what is to come... in the 1940's Big business needed government now in the 2010's Government needs big business...

[jannes_z-28]

I would call this post a political one, and that is banned on this site you know.

On the other hand, why should GM not be in the largest auto market in the world? The total sales of cars in China is larger than in the USA. Why shouldn't GM be there? And to build them where the market is has always been part of GM strategy who has had overseas plants since 1920.

From a business point I can't see the problem. But from an protectionist American way, sure. But that view will not protect America. Global trade is what makes the economy spin, and market profit is what give our pensionfunds value. Don't forget that!

Jan

[Salvatore]

what a shame and we bailed them out! May have to go to Ford!

[70 copo]

I do not see this as a political issue. Right now I am at the GM Tech center in Warren and it is pretty obvious that there is little going on here in the areas of maintenance and infrastructure upkeep. In lots of places the grass is not even mowed and the building exteriors are looking ragged. If the video is true and R+D is moving to PRC then what I see on the ground here looks ominous indeed.

Looks like GM is going to go where the customers are. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/burnout.gif

[wheelhop]

If you like Ford, don't they have a large stake of their business in Europe? What's the difference?

[bbbenny]

I;m A GM guy! But enough is enough. When this is all is done, with china. MORE american jobs will be lost forever! BBBenny <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/bs.gif

[markinnaples]

Pension fund? What's that? <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/confused.gif

[jannes_z-28]

It's a lot of politics in the auto industry.

In Poland GM has a factory that produce the Opel Astra. When they export them to Ukraine they has to take them apart in a few assemblies. Then they have an assembly plant in Ukraine that put them back together.

This is necessary to avoid heavy taxation for import. When they put the stuff together in Ukraine it is considered as &quot;Made in Ukraine&quot;

As long as you buy the american made Chevrolets and Fords you will not loose any jobs. The cars produced in China are for that market.

Here is a list of current GM plants all over the world, none in China! and a lot in the USA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_General_Motors_factories

On the other hand a lot of Japanese and some European automakers has plants in the US, you don't hear them complain about loosing jobs. They make profit on the sales and are happy with that.

In Sweden some people complain that GM wouldn't release the licenses for the latest SAAB models to anyone who is going to buy the SAAB company, now in bankruptcy. And why should they, those cars contain 100% GM technology that they of course will not sell to any outside company. Without those licenses the SAAB company isn't worth much. The SAAB spareparts company is now owned by the Swedish government as collateral for loans they issued to SAAB when Spyker took over after GM. So there isn't much left of SAAB to buy...


Jan

[1969l78]

My next truck is a Ford....No more GM for me. The quality of my gm truck is just not that great.

[70 Forest Green Zee]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jannes_z-28</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would call this post a political one, and that is banned on this site you know.

On the other hand, why should GM not be in the largest auto market in the world? The total sales of cars in China is larger than in the USA. Why shouldn't GM be there? And to build them where the market is has always been part of GM strategy who has had overseas plants since 1920.

From a business point I can't see the problem. But from an protectionist American way, sure. But that view will not protect America. Global trade is what makes the economy spin, and market profit is what give our pensionfunds value. Don't forget that!

Jan </div></div>

That's very easy for you to say Jan since it wasn't your hard earned tax dollars that helped to bail out GM. If 30 cents of every dollar you make went for taxes, then your government bailed out GM so they wouldn't go bankrupt, then GM turned around and pulled this kind of shit.....wouldn't you be pissed???? I'm thinking that you would

[DarrenX33]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jannes_z-28</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would call this post a political one, and that is banned on this site you know.

On the other hand, why should GM not be in the largest auto market in the world? The total sales of cars in China is larger than in the USA. Why shouldn't GM be there? And to build them where the market is has always been part of GM strategy who has had overseas plants since 1920.

From a business point I can't see the problem. But from an protectionist American way, sure. But that view will not protect America. Global trade is what makes the economy spin, and market profit is what give our pensionfunds value. Don't forget that!

Jan</div></div>

I have to agree.

Are we jumping to conclusions here? Every OEM (not just big 3) wants part of the China market as it is an emerging market. That's a bad thing because GM wants part of the action? Where did it say they are transferring all the jobs to China??? In the video it says they are diversifying, not transferring.

Here's a news flash. While a little slower to enter the game, Ford is doing the same thing. I'm certainly for Made in the USA. But to me that video is basically an anti China video more than a GM video. Do I want our American companies to be part of the huge growth in that market so they can make money off them? Why not? Is it much different from what Toyota is doing here?

[70 copo]

Here is the website for GM china: Website says 35,000 GM employees.

http://careers.gm.com/careers-worldwide/asiamiddle-east/china.html


GM (China) Investment Corp. is a wholly owned venture based in Shanghai. It houses all of GM’s local staff and is an investor in GM’s vehicle joint ventures in China.

Shanghai General Motors Co. Ltd. (Shanghai GM) is a joint venture between GM and Shanghai Automotive Industry Corp. Group (SAIC), a leading passenger car manufacturer in China. GM holds a 49 percent stake. Shanghai GM was formed in June 1997. It is fully supported by a network of sales, aftersales and parts centers. It builds imports and sells a comprehensive range of Buick, Cadillac and Chevrolet products. In 2010, Shanghai GM became China’s first passenger car maker to sell 1 million vehicles in a single year. It 2011, it had record domestic sales of 1,200,355 units.

Pan Asia Technical Automotive Center (PATAC) is a 50-50 joint venture between GM and SAIC. It provides automotive engineering services, including design, development, testing and validation of components and vehicles. Among its achievements is the development of the Chevrolet New Sail small car and Buick GL8 luxury MPV for Shanghai GM.

SAIC-GM-Wuling Automobile Co. Ltd. (SAIC-GM-Wuling) is a joint venture that was officially launched on November 18, 2002. SAIC has a 50.1 percent stake, GM China a 44.0 percent stake and Wuling Motors a 5.9 percent stake. SAIC-GM-Wuling is based in Liuzhou, Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region, in southwestern China. It has a second manufacturing base in Qingdao, Shandong. In 2010, SAIC-GM-Wuling announced the establishment of a new passenger vehicle production base in Liuzhou. SAIC-GM-Wuling manufactures a range of Wuling brand mini-trucks and minivans as well as the Chevrolet Le Chi mini-car. The Baojun 630, the first model from SAIC-GM-Wuling’s new Baojun passenger car brand, entered the market in August 2011. In 2011, SAIC-GM-Wuling’s domestic sales totaled 1,285,820 units. The Wuling Sunshine minivan has been the best-selling vehicle in China for nine consecutive years.

Shanghai GM (Shenyang) Norsom Motors Co. Ltd. is a joint venture formerly known as Jinbei General Motors. Shanghai GM holds a 50 percent stake and oversees management. GM China and SAIC each hold 25 percent stakes in the facility, which is located in Shenyang, Liaoning. It manufactures the Buick GL8 and FirstLand executive wagons and the Chevrolet Cruze compact sedan.

Shanghai GM Dong Yue Motors Co. Ltd. is a joint venture manufacturing facility situated in Yantai, Shandong. Shanghai GM holds a 50 percent stake and oversees management. GM China and SAIC each hold 25 percent stakes in the facility, which manufactures Chevrolet brand vehicles.

Shanghai GM Dong Yue Automotive Powertrain Co. Ltd. is a joint venture located in Yantai, Shandong. Shanghai GM owns 50 percent and oversees management. GM China and SAIC each own 25 percent. The facility supplies powertrains to Shanghai GM.

GMAC-SAIC Automotive Finance Co., Ltd. became China’s first approved and operational automotive financing company when it opened for business in August 2004. The joint venture between Ally Financial Inc. (formerly GMAC Inc.), Shanghai Automotive Group Finance Co. Ltd. (SAICFC) and Shanghai GM provides wholesale service and retail credit service to Shanghai GM dealers across China.

Shanghai OnStar Telematics Co. Ltd. is a Shanghai-based joint venture that provides a range of in-vehicle safety, security and communication services. Established in 2007, it began rolling out its services in December 2009, initially in vehicles manufactured and distributed in China by Shanghai GM. GM subsidiary OnStar and SAIC subsidiary Shanghai Automotive Industry Sales Co. Ltd. (SAISC) each own 40 percent of the joint venture. Shanghai GM owns the remaining 20 percent. Shanghai OnStar has more than 400,000 subscribers, making it the leader in the Chinese telematics market.

FAW-GM Light Duty Commercial Vehicle Co. Ltd. is a 50-50 joint venture between GM China and China FAW Group Corp. (FAW), one of China’s leading automakers. It was launched on August 30, 2009, and is based in Changchun, Jilin. It is focused on the production and sale of light-duty trucks and vans. It will also engage in R&amp;D, exports and aftersales support. The joint venture includes FAW Harbin Light Duty Vehicle Co. Ltd. in Harbin, Heilongjiang; FAW-GM’s Changchun plant in Changchun, Jilin; and FAW-GM Hongta Yunnan Automobile Manufacturing Co. Ltd. in Qujing, Yunnan. FAW-GM sold 56,164 vehicles in China in 2011.

General Motors SAIC Investment Ltd. is a 50-50 joint venture investment company between GM and SAIC that is situated in Hong Kong. It is facilitating GM and SAIC’s expansion efforts in India and other emerging markets.

Shanghai Chengxin Used Car Operation and Management Co., Ltd. is a joint venture established by GM China, Shanghai GM and SAIC subsidiary Shanghai Automotive Industry Sales Co. (SAISC) on October 28, 2010. GM China and Shanghai GM both have stakes of 33 percent, with SAISC holding the remaining 34 percent. The joint venture will cooperate with current distributors of Shanghai GM products in the establishment of dedicated used car sales and service facilities across China. The facilities will offer vehicles from Shanghai GM’s Buick, Chevrolet and Cadillac brands as well as selected brands from other automakers.

GM Warehousing and Trading (Shanghai) Co. Ltd. is located in Shanghai’s Waigaoqiao Free Trade Zone. The wholly owned parts distribution center (PDC) officially started operation in August 1999. It was established to ensure the quick delivery of genuine GM parts to customers in mainland China. The PDC features a fully computerized management and inventory control system and stocks about 25,000 different parts.

Shanghai Chengxin Used Car Operation and Management Co., Ltd. is a joint venture established by GM China, Shanghai GM and SAIC subsidiary Shanghai Automotive Industry Sales Co. (SAISC) on October 28, 2010. GM China and Shanghai GM both have stakes of 33 percent, with SAISC holding the remaining 34 percent. The joint venture will cooperate with current distributors of Shanghai GM products in the establishment of dedicated used car sales and service facilities across China. The facilities will offer vehicles from Shanghai GM’s Buick, Chevrolet and Cadillac brands as well as selected brands from other automakers.

GM Warehousing and Trading (Shanghai) Co. Ltd. is located in Shanghai’s Waigaoqiao Free Trade Zone. The wholly owned parts distribution center (PDC) officially started operation in August 1999. It was established to ensure the quick delivery of genuine GM parts to customers in mainland China. The PDC features a fully computerized management and inventory control system and stocks about 25,000 different parts.

ACDelco, the world’s leading aftermarket brand, operates a growing network of wholesale distributors and ACDelco Service Centers in China. The facilities, which stock genuine ACDelco parts, provide repair and maintenance services for all makes and models of vehicles on China’s roads.

GM China Advanced Technical Center will serve as the home of the China Science Lab, Vehicle Engineering Lab, Advanced Powertrain Engineering Lab and Advanced Design Center. It will mainly focus on advanced propulsion system research, advanced powertrain and alternative energy research, advanced battery technologies, advanced material research (including lightweight and recyclable materials) and advanced design concepts. It will develop solutions for GM on a domestic and global basis. It is part of GM’s global engineering and design network, and supports GM’s vision to design, build and sell the world’s best vehicles. The first phase of the facility opened in September 2011, with the second phase scheduled to open in the second half of 2012.

[70 copo]

The issue to me is the cost of doing business there - is wholesale transfer of our advanced technology.

But that is the way the game is rigged.... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/bs.gif

[DarrenX33]

Not likely we are gonna build a wall around our country. Like it or not there is no running from globalization. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif

On a similar note. Check out this American Hero.

http://www.weathertech.com/assets/1/7/whatmatterstoyou112SCR.pdf

[jannes_z-28]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 70 Forest Green Zee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
That's very easy for you to say Jan since it wasn't your hard earned tax dollars that helped to bail out GM.</div></div>

Well, Swedish taxpayers contributed some money too for the SAAB deal. And we would have bought SAAB from GM if the socialists have had the decision votes, luckily for us taxpayers they didn't.

Jan

[70 copo]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DarrenX33</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not likely we are gonna build a wall around our country. Like it or not there is no running from globalization. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif

On a similar note. Check out this American Hero.

http://www.weathertech.com/assets/1/7/whatmatterstoyou112SCR.pdf </div></div>

Yea I guess we really screwed up in ghe 1980's when we played kind of fair by forcing the imports to build plants here through the import tariffs. Perhsps we should have forced them to have mandatory 50-50 partnerships with the big three so we could gain access to the import small engine technology.