1970 Chevelle LS6......need your opinions

[Hawkeye]

I recently looked at a Chevelle LS6 and would like your opinions on it. I apologize for the clarity of some of the photos. I will translate as best as possible. I am not an expert on these cars by any means, but would like to hear what your comments are. There are aspects of the car that really raise some questions for me. It is not my car and the owner is not a member here, so please give your honest opinions. Thanks in advance.

Trim tag: 70-13637 BT40289
755
06A 310
No paint code listed.
http://www.yenko.net/attachments/usergals/2012/07/full-5526-360-1970_ls6_002.jpg

http://www.yenko.net/attachments/usergals/2012/07/full-5526-361-1970_ls6_006.jpg

Engine pad: vin is not legible and TOI7CRV is double stamped.
http://www.yenko.net/attachments/usergals/2012/07/full-5526-362-1970_ls6_005.jpg

Trans is stamped P2K05C with partial vin of 253387.
http://www.yenko.net/attachments/usergals/2012/07/full-5526-363-1970_ls6_003.jpg

http://www.yenko.net/attachments/usergals/2012/07/full-5526-364-1970_ls6_004.jpg


Thanks again for all your knowledge.

[69 Post Sedan]

I don't see any broach marks on the pad although the picture isn't very clear. Also the build date of the motor; T017CRV, is missing another number for the day or month.

Kurt

[Mr70]

April 28th CRW rear looks good for this June Arlington assembly.
That's not it's born with trans...but a 1972 production M22.
Might be a special paint color car,or trim tag looks like the paint code might have been sanded off maybe?..that area looks unusually smooth from here.
Looks like someone scratched the pad left to right with an abrasive to reveal the CON VIN.I like the pad & see vintage broaching,based on that one pic from here.
Although it is missing a digit,that's not uncommon.
TO17CRV coulda meant to be TO117,or TO107 or even missing a number closer to June too.
Whats the blocks casting number & date in the back?
Does it have the std. larger oil cooler provision above the oil filter to prove it's a 4 bolt block?

[XXXGoldL34M20]

-Motor reads CE 253387 (Warranty Replacement Block)

-Rear end is the 4:10 CRW Posi unit 1970-April 28-Buffalo built on-First shift

-Trans P2K05C is Muncie 1972 July 5 M22

[Mr70]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XXXBlackLs6M22</div><div class="ubbcode-body">-Motor reads CE 253387 (Warranty Replacement Block)</div></div>

They didn't stamp the vehicles CON VIN on a warranty block.
I see that as 10R253387

[XXXGoldL34M20]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr70</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XXXBlackLs6M22</div><div class="ubbcode-body">-Motor reads CE 253387 (Warranty Replacement Block)</div></div>

They didn't stamp the vehicles CON VIN on a warranty block.
I see that as 10R253387 </div></div>

Your Right, photo is not very clear and it looked like a CE

[XXXGoldL34M20]

Didn't the Arlington Texas built cars stamp the Motor code always before the Con Vin code?
First time i have seen the con vin in front of a TO motor code.

[Hawkeye]

Thank you very much for the replies. I unfortunately did not get the casting date or block # from the back of the engine. I meant to, but then forgot. I guess the 100 degree temperature got to me. When I zoom in on the vin stamping on the pad, it looks like a GP or CP prior to the couple of numbers that are there. Very difficult to tell. Does it look like an I in the TOI7CRV to anyone? Good question about the vin prior to the TO stamping. I was wondering the same. The trim tag is very smooth where the paint code should be, but it doesn't look sanded in that spot. It does over the interior trim area. Car is claimed to have original body panels and supposed to be Cranberry Red with vinyl top. The vinyl top holes are there, but I see remnants of orange here and there. Inside the trunk inder the package tray does show red. Please keep the opiinions coming.

[Mr70]

Yes..Tonowanda used the capital letter I to represent the number 1 sometimes.Very common.
Stamping the Tonowanda assembly date as well as the CON VIN there was not the norm,but possible too.

If this a special order paint '70 Chevelle,there could be 2 embossed dashes - - to left of PNT on the trim tag.
Maybe they loaded up the paint there when painting the trim tag,and it's pooled over,leaving a smooth look.Try rubbing it down with stripper to see whats there.

Does this car have a factory tachometer?...If so,what's the redline &amp; face look like?
Can you tell/show us more overall details of the car?

[wheelhop]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr70</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes,Try rubbing it down with stripper </div></div>

Ahhhhh, the good old days!!

[Hawkeye]

Thanks you for the replies. I appreciate the feedback. The tach is a 6500 redline and has 3 screws in the face as per original. The car is allegedly from Arizona and has all original body panels. Supposedly 26,000 original miles, however I do not believe that to be true. Restored about 20 years ago and is supposed to have the original interior in it. As already stated LS6, M22, 4:10, Cranberry Red?, vinyl top, black bench seat. I tried to add more pictures but they are too big. Once i figure out how to make them smaller I will post them. Very frustrating..

[SuperNovaSS]

Is the same con VIN on the 72 Muncie? It looks that way and that would make me worry, a lot.


Jason

[Hawkeye]

Some more photos...

http://www.yenko.net/attachments/usergals/2012/07/full-5526-383-1970_ls6_018.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/attachments/usergals/2012/07/full-5526-384-1970_ls6_019.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/attachments/usergals/2012/07/full-5526-385-1970_ls6_021.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/attachments/usergals/2012/07/full-5526-386-1970_ls6_010.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/attachments/usergals/2012/07/full-5526-387-1970_ls6_022.jpg

[Hawkeye]

http://www.yenko.net/attachments/usergals/2012/07/full-5526-388-1970_ls6_023.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/attachments/usergals/2012/07/full-5526-389-1970_ls6_024.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/attachments/usergals/2012/07/full-5526-390-1970_ls6_025.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/attachments/usergals/2012/07/full-5526-391-1970_ls6_015.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/attachments/usergals/2012/07/full-5526-392-1970_ls6_017.jpg


Thanks for your thoughts.
Marty

[XXXGoldL34M20]

Car has the wrong exhaust manifolds (should have smog holes)
There are so many things incorrect or missing.

[olredalert]

----Way wrong shifter!.....Bill S

[Hawkeye]

I would like to hear more opinions on the trim tag and engine pad. I did read online that there are no documented Arlington special paint cars. Can anyone verify this? As far as the engine pad, what are the opinions on the placement of the Tonowanda stamping versus the partial vin? What about the double stamping and the lack of a good vin stamp? Thanks in advance for all the knowledge.

Marty

[XXXGoldL34M20]

Marty
Does the car have a build sheet or any kind of paper work?

[SuperNovaSS]

Does the fact that the trans had a (partial)partial VIN along with the fact that it is a 1972 model trans bother anyone else?


Jason

[Rixls6]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SuperNovaSS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does the fact that the trans had a (partial)partial VIN along with the fact that it is a 1972 model trans bother anyone else?


Jason </div></div>

YES!

[rubbinisracing]

Certainly makes you wonder what other steps were taken to create a numbers matching car. Definitely an amateur move that could have been done in an attempt to deceive or by a previous owner in his own effort to keep his car &quot;as delivered&quot; if the original trans failed. Couple this with the trim tag issue, the lack of paperwork, and unstated owner history, leaves plenty room for doubt. Hawkeye, if your happy with the car knowing these things and what else you may learn, it's your call. But, I don't think this particular auto would pass the sniff test for most discerning buyers, and that's something you need to know if you buy this car. Until additional documentation and history this is a &quot;created&quot; car to me and would be valued as such. I know some will differ, but I never hope or wish for a car to be something. For me, they are only what you can &quot;prove&quot; them to be. We all have to determne how high the bar of proof is raised individually.

[ohhawk]

My Decision Tree for the purchase of any '70 SS (or certain others)


Question #1 - Does the car have a buildsheet/window sticker/paperwork?

If no.......no further questions thank you.

[Hawkeye]

Thank you all for the opinions. The day I looked at the car it raised too many questions for me not to commit to purchasing it. If someone went so far as to stamp a partial vin and incorrectly at that into the tranny it made me question what else was altered. But, at the same time it did have some interesting characteristics that made me wonder about the trim tag and potential special paint car. Unfortunately there is no paperwork or buildsheet. If there was, I would then have more questions on the authenticity of that too. If anyone else has an opinion on the trim tag please let me know. Thanks againg for all the comments.

Marty

[Mr70]

It does look like it's been rode hard &amp; put away wet,but don't be so quick to dismiss it.
From the few photos you've posted,it's showing many questionable &amp; incorrect parts like Master Cyl,Transmission,shifter,no tail pipe hangers,Blue over spray on body bushings,Ex.Manifolds etc.
Try to look past all that &amp; at it's true heritage.
Your LS-6 tach description sounded good.
It's holding an LS-6 specific 4:10.
The correct PA radiator too.What's the part # on the fan shroud?
What's the part # and date on the fan blades,If not,look on the fans center hub for any markings.
I have a few Arlington Tx assembled 1970 Chevelles with Special order paint in my database.
Three are special order Hugger/Monaco Orange Acrylic.Their May/June buildsheets back this up.
Two have the CON VIN before the Tona date too.
It's transmission stamping was obviously added by someone later on,and looks like the wrong VIN font to me compared to the engine pad,from the pic you posted.That's not really an issue w/me,cause it's clearly not the one it was born with already,and some repair shops would stamp the vehicles digits in them when replacing,for their warranty purposes.

Get the casting number &amp; date code off the back of the block.
Get the casting numbers &amp; dates off the heads.
Get the casting number &amp; date off the waterpump.
Get the casting number off the intake manifold.
Get the casting number &amp; date off the Distributor.
Get the casting number &amp; date off the Holley.
Get the casting number &amp; date off the starter motor.
Get the casting number &amp; date off the alternator.
Deep groove pulleys all around?
Is it holding an 8&quot; dampener and correct tab timing cover?..If so,what's the date on it?
And clean the trim tag off....just to name a few.

Hunt for a buildsheet,some did get them and don't forget the sound deadner.Arlington liked to place em under the sound deadner.
Try to do a title search in AZ. to discover the past mileage.
Find out where he got the car from,contact the people he got it from.Ask what it was like when they owned it.Ask for pics too.

It's not easy to document and find a correct car,thus why they are so sought after today.

[Hawkeye]

Thank you for all the opinions, suggestions and knowledge. It has all been very helpful. If or when I get any additional information I will keep you all posted.

Thank you,
Marty

[resto4u]

Marty how much are they asking for the car? Explain to the seller that it is an undocumented car and that there are some incorrect parts and some issues with the engine and trans stamp. Offer them less than market value of a documented car, and if you can document the car later after you own it, good for you!