Motion Replacement Engines

[vettebuilder]

HI. I am a brand new member and I have enjoyed this site for a while. So I joined to become part of this great community. I do have a starting off question. Could someone PLEASE explain to me...if your 1972 Corvette was converted at Motion from a small block to a 454 big block, what stampings if any are on the front pad and what casting number is on the block? I have read so much about CE blocks used and L-88 blocks I wondered what block and stamping was original for those cars converted in the early 70's. I read that cars ordered from Baldwin came with 427 engines that Motion upgraded. But what happened if you had a small block and went to Motion for one of his 454 conversions? Would the stamping pad be blank, and were they ALL 512 block castings?

[68vet427]

Paul, Welcome to the site!.
The guys on here are pretty up on Motion vehicles.
I do not have an answer for you, just wanted to say hi.
Hope you find out.
Joe

[Martyn L. Schorr]

Hi:
The simple answers to your complex question: Except for rare situations, all Baldwin-Motion cars started out being ordered with big block engines. If you brought a car to Motion Performance for a big-block conversion or for a new big-block engine, choice would be made based on customer needs, budget and Joel Rosen's recommendations. That means anything from a stock/tuned big-block to an L88. Motion Performance was a very busy speed shop, lots of cars getting new street and race engines.
Hope this helps,
Marty

[vettebuilder]

Thanks for that info! So, did Motion stamp the pads on the engines or were they blank? I know bare replacement GM blocks were blank but short blocks had the CE and assembly date. Also, would Motion use a 512 block to build a 427 if the customer asked, or were they only used as 454? I see O much data on the internet about blocks and engines and stampings that I was curious as to who is correct and who isn't. I have no intentions of trying to duplicate any Motion car, I was just curious as to how the stamping and casting numbers went. I even read that Motion put their own stamps on some of the engines, so there is WAY more info out there than can possible be correct.

[owners2]

My thought is that when building a motor for a customers car they were sent out to a machine shop & that motion might stamp an MP on the motor & the machine shop might stamp there invoice # on it to keep track of what heads & blocks were together. I could be wrong..

[74NovaSS]

Marty,

Anybody ever walk around Motion Performance with a video camera back then? Now that would be some cool stuff to see.

Ed

[smallblockhero]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vettebuilder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for that info! So, did Motion stamp the pads on the engines or were they blank? I know bare replacement GM blocks were blank but short blocks had the CE and assembly date. Also, would Motion use a 512 block to build a 427 if the customer asked, or were they only used as 454? I see O much data on the internet about blocks and engines and stampings that I was curious as to who is correct and who isn't. I have no intentions of trying to duplicate any Motion car, I was just curious as to how the stamping and casting numbers went. I even read that Motion put their own stamps on some of the engines, so there is WAY more info out there than can possible be correct. </div></div>


(correct me if im wrong here fellas)
Almost everything ive seen in writing shows that L-88's and other BB engines that were installed by MP were usually crate engines purchased from Chevrolet. ive never seen anything from joel or any other motion employee to imply that they stamped anything on any of the installed engines to designate it as their own. from the standard replacement BB up to nastiest of LS7 transplants that were installed, the literature available states they almost all started life as a replacement crate engine from GM. so whatever was on the stamp pad from tonawanda or flint should be all thats on them.

[dreemz]

A full Phase III 427 could be stamped with Motion Performance designation and a particular work order number.

[vettebuilder]

SO, back LONG ago when I was much younger I was thinking of purchasing a motor from Motion for my 1974 Corvette. I still have the old original Motion catalog and some original decals they sent. I managed to hold onto some of the the original Motion items I bought back then, like the Lemans gas cap, the fly eye air cleaner, Mallory super coil, and some valve covers. That was as far as my budget got me back then. When you ordered a Motion big block engine from the catalog, did Motion stamp it in any way to verify it was from them? I don't understand why people are saying that CE engines came from Motion while others say blank pad engines came from them, and even one person said they were stamped with MP. There seems to be a lot of questionable material about the engines, and I am still having difficulty sorting thru it.

[Born30YrsLate]

I would say that using a CE block was the standard if it was a transplant...although there may have been exceptions. There is one instance where a 396 Nova Engine(that had work done at Motion) had MOTION PERF or something similar stamped on the back side of the block where the bellhousing mounts (if I recall correctly). I don't think there was a standard formal protocal, just use what was ever available.

[Hemicolt]

Can you post pictures of the Motion parts you have? <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

[vettebuilder]

I can, but I have to dig them out first. I bought them back in the mid 70's and they were packed away and went thru 3 house changes since!

[PeteLeathersac]

Welcome aboard Paul!

You'd think more a variety of stampings would've rolled out the doors on shop built cars and engines sold loose probably more uniform being built on CE's or whatever was supplied through GM parts?
I remember the thread w/ the Nova and Motion Perf stamping on the engine bellhousing surface too, whatever happened to that car?

Pics of the Nos parts sounds great and I'd especially love to see some good images of the Lemans gas fillers Motion offered including base and flipper/clip details as I have a few Nos Enots brand flipper style w/ threaded inside base and always wondered if they're the same?
The ones I have were stock equipment on my 72/73 SkiDoo factory racing snowmobiles and supposedly the same as supplied w/ some Aston Martins, they look exactly like this one on eBoy...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Enots-Aston-2-5-...ies&amp;vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Enots-Aston-2-5-inch-fuel-gas-filler-cap-/320966089397?hash=item4abb11dab5&amp;item=320966089397 &amp;pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&amp;vxp=mtr )

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif
~ Pete

[vettebuilder]

To be honest, I have not looked at the box of Motion parts for many years. I remember the Lemans cap to be shiny, not dull. There was an old fan made of green and white fiberglass I bought way back when from Motion. I bought a traction bar too, but never put it on because it was white and I never got around to painting it a different color. All of these items came from Motion over a period of a few years, more or less as funds became available. I figured if I bought the pieces one at a time then the crunch of the cost would not hurt so much! I really do not remember all of the items I bought, it was too many years ago. One of the biggest expenses back then were the chrome hooker header side pipes. They are still wrapped in the original boxes packed away in my attic. I saved a long time for those. And the very last item I remember purchasing was the set of Ansen aluminum slotted wheels. I bought 2 15 x 8.5 and 2 15 x 10. Again, packed away for future use, who knows when now. I sold the 74 corvette in 1980 without adding any of the Motion items. I bought an L-88 short block from the local GM dealer for about $1000. I took the car to a Pittsburgh based Corvette shop and they put the L-88 in and added aluminum heads and some strange Offy 2x4 intake system that required a high rise hood. I never got the Motion car, but always wished I had.

[vettebuilder]

I found this old air cleaner in the box on top of some other things in the attic. The chrome is perfect, box is a bit rough, it was in a box with some old car parts stored for a hopeful rebuild someday. This one might hit ebay because I found 3 others in the same box, but they are not in the original Mr Gasket wrappers. I don't know how to upload pics to the site, so I have them on a photo bucket link.

http://s1172.photobucket.com/albums/r578/vettepictureguy/Motion%20items/

[Charley Lillard]

Easy to upload pics. Click on the 5th box from the left above where you are typing and upload pics. Then click on &quot;do it&quot; over on the right.

[vettebuilder]

Thanks, I will give it a try http://www.yenko.net/attachments/usergals/2012/10/full-13162-1084-pa124154.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/attachments/usergals/2012/10/full-13162-1085-pa124152.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/attachments/usergals/2012/10/full-13162-1086-pa124153.jpg

[RichSchmidt]

Motion usually started their big block builds with GM crate engines. I believe the last year for the 512 block was 1971 and it was used in both high performance 427's and 454'. I believe that all 72 and later 427 and 454 engines used the same #289 thick wall block which was also used in some 1 ton trucks and high performance cars in that year. Basically both blocks are thick wall,high nickle content blocks,and are the ones most often regarded as being able to be bored 1/8&quot; over with no block filler.

[Plowman]

&quot;Basically both blocks are thick wall,high nickle content blocks,and are the ones most often regarded as being able to be bored 1/8 over with no block filler.&quot; Do you think Motion stoped there,in that particular place.

[vettebuilder]

I still have the NOS 4 bolt block casting 512 that I bought back in 1972 for my never to be Motion project. I purchased it from Yenko Chevrolet here in Pittsburgh. Back then, with my Corvette Club discount, it only cost #389.00. It is still wrapped in plastic, oiled and protected. There is no stamping on the pad. I wasn't sure if Motion used 512 blocks in 1972, that is why I entered my original question here months ago. I could never find any definite information back then either, so I bought the block hoping it was correct. It sits in storage next to the 074 aluminum heads, Edelbrock torker intake, and a stash of other stuff you could get back in the days for not much cash. Although much older now, I would still LOVE to get that fantasy car built and driveable, just cannot find the time. Sorry I drifted off the thread....

[bergy]

Rich - FYI - We never alloyed with nickle at Tonawanda. The base cylinder iron was the same for all blocks - BB &amp; SB. On special blocks we alloyed ferro-chrome for wear and sometimes copper for strength, but never nickle.

[Plowman]

Same Mr. Gasket box my Fly Eye came in,those were the days. Fantasy car built,and how.

[lowmile]

I had the Nova with MOTION PER stamped on the block. It was stamped where the bell housing bolts up. It also had numbers stamped on the heads. The engine was matching number to the car and it was a fathom blue 375/396 4sp. Not sure where the car is now.