Whats Really Correct?

[olredalert]

----What do correct 69 7" trim rings have for rim clamps? I feel like they should be the 4 clamp style, but my 69 Grand Prix had the multy-style clamp set-up. Also,,,should the valve stem hole be oval?......Bill S

[farone]

It appears to me that the later build cars had the teeth style clamp set-up and the earlier cars had the four clip style. I am not sure when the change was.

[travlnz28]

I just bought some YH Z/28 wheels that were on a car that sat for many, many years. The rims had the teeth style trim rings on it. The car was built in Feb. 69. I can't swear the rings were original to the car but the wheels were and they had a lot of patina.

[Lynn]

Lots of weird stories. Supposedly a "mini recall" where customers could get the newer style if requested, but I have never seen any evidence of any such campaign by Chevrolet.

I know both were made, maybe even in the 69 model year. I have heard about GM discontinuing the four clamps style before the end of 69, and that just isn't so. Even late cars could have the for clamps. In fact, I have an FW wheel with its original trim ring and <span style="font-weight: bold">that</span> trim ring has the four clamps. There is a slight difference in the offset between the YH and FW wheel, so the FW trim ring is just about 1/10 of an inch deeper. FW wheels weren't even made until well into 1970, maybe even 71 (or at least for the 71 model year). So, the four clamps definitely were not just discontinued. Perhaps more than one source for GM, and the secondary source had the teeth style.

[olredalert]

----I realize that I didnt say 14 inch, which I should have. Thanks for your thoughts. Any more???.....Bill S

[JimL78]

Bill, I'm the original owner of an unmolested 69 SS Camaro survivor built the first week of May. It came with F 70 14 Goodyear tires on rally wheels. I went to the barn today and checked out the trim rings, and they have the multi-tooth rim clamps. The opening for the air valve is an oval. I hope this helps. Jim

[olredalert]

----Thanks Jim!.......Bill S

[69PACE]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lynn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lots of weird stories. Supposedly a &quot;mini recall&quot; where customers could get the newer style if requested, but I have never seen any evidence of any such campaign by Chevrolet.

I know both were made, maybe even in the 69 model year. I have heard about GM discontinuing the four clamps style before the end of 69, and that just isn't so. Even late cars could have the for clamps. In fact, I have an FW wheel with its original trim ring and <span style="font-weight: bold">that</span> trim ring has the four clamps. There is a slight difference in the offset between the YH and FW wheel, so the FW trim ring is just about 1/10 of an inch deeper. FW wheels weren't even made until well into 1970, maybe even 71 (or at least for the 71 model year). So, the four clamps definitely were not just discontinued. Perhaps more than one source for GM, and the secondary source had the teeth style.</div></div>

Unfortunately the coverage of older recall campaigns, and voluntary actions in lieu of a recall is hit or miss. One site may say there are no recalls for 69 Camaro's, while one may list the 30 or so that effected Camaro's in 1969. I did a ton of research on this subject in the early 80's pre busy internet and Google by hitting the library. The &quot;recall&quot; that resulted in the redesign of the clips was a legal settlement in lieu of a full blown mandated federal safety recall. The suit was begun in 1966 or 67 and several federal cases were combined by the time the settlement was reached. I remember reading one account in a car mag from the early 70's of a wife whose husband was killed retrieving a ring on an interstate, another was a pedestrian who was hit by a ring traveling at 50 miles per hour and was crippled for life. The other was involved with a ring and wheel failure that caused a death. Some but not all of the failed rings were on Corvettes.

GM redesigned the rings with no real fanfare or marketing of the new safer clips and as inventory was replaced at the assembly plants the new rings slipped into production in early 1969. This explains why some cars made it out with all four old, or all four new, or mix and match of old and new some vehicles side by side in vin or days apart, and variance of which plant pushed out more newer rings at the same time the other was pushing out older. There is one posting that had a copy of the parts catalog that had dates listed by ring size. Someone had stated on one thread at TC or CRG that the supplies in general at the old style Chevrolet/Fisher Norwood plant were fatter than those at the GMAD plant in LA.

There was little to no contact with owners from corporate since it was not a full blown recall - just as today with most manufacturers caught in recalls if you were aware and asked you could get the parts replaced. If you don't know and ask, you most likely don't get yours replaced unless your service rep is an outstanding employee and holds service as a priority. While little if anything was done to reach out and inform owners the dealerships were either fully behind replacing rings or did not care. My local Chevrolet dealership - Grody - was a more aggressive participant and as vehicles came in for regular service, rings were switched out. I don't know if the dealership got points or cash back from corporate or not, but they did sell a ton of vettes. I do know the other dealership across the river in East Hartford did nothing proactive.

There are several threads at TC listing the original part numbers and the replacements by size. A copy of the 72 and 74 GM parts book also lists the change over and conversion of part numbers. As to design, like every GM service part as time went on the design of any given part may have been streamlined for generic use across several product lines, and across multiple divisions. The rings seemed to loose some of the unique edge details, hole size, and shape between those used on Camaro, Corvette, and Chevelle product lines.

I am not surprised that any GM vehicle with Rally Wheels came with old style suicide clips as late as 70-71.

Here are three of the many threads in recent years on the subject.

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=7467.0;all
http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=210426
http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=202234

[Lynn]

Brian:

Not saying that what you report above isn't true. I would like to see contemporary articles from newspapers etc. Car mags from the 70'a are a horrible source. They printed all kinds of stupid things about the muscle car era.

I realize this is the tiniest piece of the puzzle, but if GM agreed to discontinue the four clip desing in the summer of 69, how does that explain a four clip desing trim ring for an FW coded wheel that wasn't made for another year? Perhaps, just perhaps, that 4 clip ring that is a perfect fit on the FW wheel also fits a pre 69 wheel, but I don't have a collection of every ralley wheel made during the 60's check it on.

If you could dig up your old research and get a contemporaneous news article or a case number (or numbers, if they were consolidated) that would be a great start.

There was more than one way these things could come down. During the 70's we had a rash of Buick Century's come in with a customer complaint of low volume of air output just one of the a/c registers. The other registers were fine. One of the techs (fancy word for mechanic) came up with a fix whereby we could epoxy a small piece of plastic onto on of the other ducts and it would divert air towards the one that had been low on air flow. The zone rep gave us to OK to do it on any Century that we received with that complaint, and agreed on the flat rate compensation for the tech. The agreement was that we didn't solict the work, but only cured it if the customer complained. Now, I am pretty sure that the air flow fix didn't ever become a nationwide campaign. If it was, there would be some paper trail. I would expect there to be something that survives today about trim ring issues.

Any help sharing your research would be greatly appreciated.

[Keith Seymore]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 69PACE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I am not surprised that any GM vehicle with Rally Wheels came with old style suicide clips as late as 70-71.

</div></div>

As an additional data point, I am the original owner of a '74 Chevelle/Malibu which came with 15x8 Corvette Rally wheels. The trim rings for those wheels have the four clip design.

K

[olredalert]

----Thanks all! Keith,,,Its been my understanding that all 8&quot; Corvette rally wheels that ever came delivered on a Corvette had the 4 clips. What I find really interesting about your post is that your 74 Chevelle came with 8&quot; wheels. Im not doubting you but can you come up with any paper trail on that? I think many here would like to see it.
----At this point I think Im probably going to look for a set of 4 clip 14&quot; trim rings at MCACN. My 69 Grand Prix is a very early example and it seems to me that the 4 clip version would be more correct....Bill S

----As an addendum to Brians thoughts, I can state catagoricly that even 78-79 Corvettes that came with rallys (the standard wheel) that came into Jack Douglass Chevrolet were delivered with the 4 clip design trim rings......Bill S, again!

[Keith Seymore]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: olredalert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">----Thanks all! Keith,,,Its been my understanding that all 8&quot; Corvette rally wheels that ever came delivered on a Corvette had the 4 clips. What I find really interesting about your post is that your 74 Chevelle came with 8&quot; wheels. Im not doubting you but can you come up with any paper trail on that? I think many here would like to see it.</div></div>

Yes - and no. The car is fully documented through GM of Canada (since it was built in Oshawa); the build information and window sticker specify the rally wheel but don't specifically call out the size.

The wheels and trim rings are in the barn on a shelf; I should check and see if they still have any part number or broadcast stickers on them.

K

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b369/hotrod001/Lapeerdrive.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b369/hotrod001/img078.jpg

[olredalert]

----Thanks for the pics, Keith! I guess I have learned something. 8 inch wheels on a Chevelle. Is this the same 74 Chevelle that runs in the 9s??? You have quite a collection going there. Would love to see pics of the 65 GTO. It has to be an amazing car. By the way,,,Im up in Marine City. Are you anywhere close?....Bill S

[Keith Seymore]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: olredalert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">----Thanks for the pics, Keith! I guess I have learned something. 8 inch wheels on a Chevelle. Is this the same 74 Chevelle that runs in the 9s??? You have quite a collection going there. Would love to see pics of the 65 GTO. It has to be an amazing car. By the way,,,Im up in Marine City. Are you anywhere close?....Bill S </div></div>

Thank you - yes - I've been racing that same car for 34 years now; more details can be found here:

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/1005phr_1974_chevrolet_chevelle/

For GTO pics I would suggest my PerformanceYears album:

http://forums.performanceyears.com/forums/album.php?albumid=184


or there is a pretty nice writeup here:

http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-bin/p...d=9990396621018 (http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-bin/pub9990327521141.cgi?categoryid=9940367363431&amp;acti on=viewad&amp;itemid=9990396621018)

I'm in the Clarkston/Ortonville area but I make it out your way from time to time...

[olredalert]

----Keith,,,Thank you so much for the links! Its absolutely amazing that I have not run across your Dads (your) unbelieveable 65 GTO somewhere, sometime. I was at that MCACN show but inconceiveably must have overlooked it, and I think I missed that years &quot;Eyes&quot;. In any event, what an absolute treasure! I would also be remiss if I didnt say that your father must have been quite a guy.
----Your Chevelle is a stout piece. Im surprized they let you run in the 9s with a 4-post bar, but I ran across stuff like that with Red Alert and was usually able to circumvent one way or another.......Bill S