Motion Nova????

[jasonL78]

I can't understand why this car hasn't been bought. It seems like the real deal? Why won't Joel tell what cars he converted. All the yenko numbers are published?

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=212785

[njsteve]

Probably hasn't sold because the seller keeps talking about his letter from Joel but won't say what the letter states.

That's like saying, &quot;I got a letter from the IRS this year&quot;. Buy it from me and I'll tell you what it says. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif It could be a refund check or a notification that you're being audited.

Joel gets paid to document his cars. You don't just &quot;call him up&quot; for info, like the seller keeps telling people to do. You would have to pay him for his response, positive or negative. It would be the same fee you'd pay if you owned the car and was documenting whether it was an original Motion built car or a later modified car, or a clone.

[x Baldwin Motion]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonL78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can't understand why this car hasn't been bought....... </div></div>


the seller has a Masters degree in vague. (Magna Cum Laude)


*very glad we have the posted price rule in our classifieds, and courteous members that post pictures of the actual car <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif

[scott s]

Masters degree in b.s .Don,t even waste your time or $$$$ on this guy ....

[55chevy]

I'll come out of retirement to comment on this... This Dan P. guy is the biggest talker with no backup I've ever seen over the years.. And I mean YEARS.. According to him nobody knows more about this stuff but reality is there are many that do. .. Everything is &quot;I have this I have that&quot; &quot;I seen this I seen that&quot; &quot;I know this guy blah blah&quot; &quot;I have pictures of.. blah blah blah...&quot; and it's always an excuse when visual proof is asked for.. always. I'm sure if you asked Joel about this guy and this car he would cough..and smile...
<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/bs.gif

Ed
55Chevy

[owners2]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: x Baldwin Motion</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonL78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can't understand why this car hasn't been bought....... </div></div>


the seller has a Masters degree in vague. (Magna Cum Laude)


*very glad we have the posted price rule in our classifieds, and courteous members that post pictures of the actual car <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif </div></div> I havent seen any pics of this &quot;So called Nova&quot; anyone have any to post ?????

[Fast67VelleN2O]

This is the same guy who lists a BV rear end as a COPO rear end trying to swinidle some unsuspecting buyer into it.

http://southjersey.craigslist.org/pts/3345554600.html


Here is his L78 Nova ad on craislist.

http://southjersey.craigslist.org/cto/3345104932.html

[al8apex]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 55chevy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll come out of retirement to comment on this... This Dan P. guy is the biggest talker with no backup I've ever seen over the years.. And I mean YEARS.. According to him nobody knows more about this stuff but reality is there are many that do. .. Everything is &quot;I have this I have that&quot; &quot;I seen this I seen that&quot; &quot;I know this guy blah blah&quot; &quot;I have pictures of.. blah blah blah...&quot; and it's always an excuse when visual proof is asked for.. always.
<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/bs.gif

Ed
55Chevy

</div></div>

I know someone like that in se Michigan, Terry O'Kxxxx

I went to high school with him and he has just gotten worse over the years.

IF he actually has a car it is a shadow of what it once was (read rusted into the ground or PART of a car) yet he wants what a fully restored NICE car goes for for his pos

I guess they are all over <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif

edit: I just read the cl post for a 68 Nova, wow! anyone know what &quot;cowel&quot; means? &lt;wink&gt;

The cl ad talks more about stuff he owned 30 years ago than it does about some Chevy II with the wrong engine ... lots of !!!!! and all caps with no space between the sentences. Very hard to read IMHO

[jasonL78]

Wow…. I talk with Dan from time to time he is a 68 Nova guy like me. All my experiences with him over the phone have been good. I never dealt with him in person. He had told me about the car years ago and didn’t realize he was trying to sell it until recently.

I don’t follow the Baldwin Motion screen and didn’t realize you had to pay for proof that they converted a car. So it all comes down to what Joel says in a letter that states: Motion actually did modify or convert a certain car when you have no original paper work? Is that how it works?

When a car is certified by Joel does it come with any sort of certification of what work was done for the original owner of the car? If you don’t know who the original owner was?

The way I understand it is:
A bullet proof motion car is a receipt of what work was done to a certain car from motion to the original owner? Just trying to understand this correctly?

Guys I am not looking to bad mouth anyone just wondering if this could be the real deal. If it is, it is way out of my league anyway. It would truly be a very unique find.

For some odd reason the 68 nova just don’t get the creditability they deserve. In 1968 they had multiple limited production motor option nova’s. Most of them were bought to get raced and abused. But they just don’t seem to hold their ground for value. It seems that way for most of the 1968 GM cars.
Just my 2 cents sorry to bring up a negative subject..

[74NovaSS]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Craigslist Ad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">SUPER RARE BIG BLOCK NOVA SS FACTORY DESIREABLE 4 SPEED-410 POSI - $35000 (PROFRSSIONAL FRAME OFF-CALIFORNIA CAR!)

THIS IS A SUPER RARE CAR THAT GM MADE BACK IN 1968!THIS WAS THE DESIREABLE FACTORY 4 SPEED CAR WHICH GM SOLD 617 OF.FACTORY Ll78'S WITH 4 SPEEDS SOLD WERE THE CAR OF CHOICE NOW AND BACK IN 1969/1968!THIS IS THE &quot;ONLY&quot; 1968 CHEVY II NOVA SS396/375HP 4 SPEED STREET/STRIP 410 GEAR CAR THAT SURVIVED WITH ITS CALIFORNIA BLACK LICENSE PLATES!! THEY WERE PUT ON THIS CAR WHEN IT SOLD NEW AT CHASE CHEVROLET IN STOCKTON CALIFORNIA.I HAVE CALIFORNIA DOCS TO BACK THIS UP WITH THESE CBLP'S! I ALSO HAVE CALIFORNIA OWNERSHIP DOCS! I HAVE THE ORIGINAL BUILD SHEET WITH OPTION CODES.CAR WAS BUILT ON 7/11/1968 BY BUILD SHEET.CAR IS 07B ON COWEL TAG---TR 740 BLUE CUSTOM BUCKET SEAT INTERIOR---PNT L L 1968 COLOR ONLY TEAL BLUE!THE ORIGINAL L78 396/375HP BLOCK IS IN A 1969 CORVETTE IN STOCKTON CALIFORNIA.I BUILT A CUSTOM BUILT HAND PICKED PARTS 427 L88 GM ALUMINUM HEAD MOTOR THAT WAS BALANCED ALONG WITH THE FLYWHEEL,3 FINGER BORG/BECK PRESSURE AND CLUTCH SET UP.MOTOR NEVER RUNS HOTTER THEN 190 EVEN ON THE HOTTEST DAYS AND HOLDS A CONSTANT 45LBS OF OIL PRESSURE AT IDLE.THIS IS ONE OF THE VERY VERY FEW &quot;BORN WITH GM SHEETMETAL GM PANEL 1968 NOVA SS396 CARS&quot;.I DID DETAILED PHOTOGRAPH DOCUMENTATION BEFORE I HAD THE CAR PROFESSIONALLY RESTORED IN PA.CAR GETS CONSTANT THUMBS UP AND SMILES FROM ON LOOKERS EVERYTIME OUT!! VERY FEW OF THESE 4 SPEED 1968 NOVA SS396 CARS SURVIVED AND THIS IS 1 OF 3 KNOWN SPECIAL FACTORY ORDERED 410 GEAR POSI CARS SAME GEAR RATIO GM PICKED FOR THE 1969 COPO 427/425HP CAMAROS!IF YOU DO NOT KNOW 68 SS396 NOVAS BRING YOUR EXPERTS TO DO YOUR INSPECTION.YOU MAY ALSO BRING YOUR 396 427 EXPERT MECHANICS TO INSPECT THIS AWESOME 427 L88 BUILT WITH A MECHANICAL CAM 630 LIFT!THIS CAR SOUNDS SOOOOOOO FREAKING GOOD!! I'M 55 YEARS YOUNG AND INTO 396 427 CAMARO AND NOVA SS CARS SINCE 1974 THATS OVER 38 YEARS AGO.I OWNED A 1969 COPO 427/425HP M22 410 CAMARO BACK IN 1975.IN 1979 IT BECAME &quot;THE BLUE MULE&quot; WHICH HAS A LONG THREAD ON YENKO.NET SITE.KEN S FROM IOWA RESTORED THAT CAR.THAT CAR WAS 353005 BDY X-11 OPTIONED MALCHOM KONNERS CHEVROLET PARAMUS NJ.IT IS ONE OF THE RAREST OPTIONED COPOS FOUND BECAUSE ITS THE &quot;ONLY&quot; ONE WITH A DELUXE BLUE COMFORTWEAVE INTERIOR TO BE FOUND.IT LOOKS AWESOME WITH THE FACTORY LEMANS BLUE PAINT THE CAR CAME WITH.YOU WANT A CAR VERY VERY VERY FEW HAVE SEEN HERES YOUR CHANCE!! I HAVE ALL RECEIPTS ON ENGINE PARTS AND WORK AT THE KNOWN MACHINE SHOP I TOOK IT TO IN ALLENTOWN PA.I HAVE A HIDDEN CD PLAYER TO PLAY YOUR ROCK AND ROLL MUSIC WHILE GOING THRU THE GEARS IN THIS BADASS NOVA!!I'M HOME MOST OF THE TIME.CALL MY LANDLINE AT{TWO ONE FIVE--FIVE THREE SIX--SEVEN SEVEN THREE ZERO}ASK FOR DAN,THANKS!+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++SEARCH WORDS nova chevyII chevy2 chevelle 427 SS camaro L88 corvette L79 L78 L48 L72 LS6 Muncie 4 speed M22 M21 12 Bolt BE BV 410 Rear Cragar SS Mags Ansen Slots Vertex mag cable tach N50 tires Delco Super Lift air shocks NMW tow tabs tow bar Wallace Chevrolet Linden NJ Lakewood traction bars

</div></div>

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l180/chevy55427/DanP.jpg

[Charley Lillard]

It might or might not be a real car but the seller is not allowed on this site so can we keep the comments on camaros.net where is is allowed to post ? No need to be making fun of someone on here especially when he has no way to defend himself here.

[DarrenX33]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 55chevy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll come out of retirement to comment on this...

Ed
55Chevy

</div></div>

Son of a gun.... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

[55chevy]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DarrenX33</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 55chevy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll come out of retirement to comment on this...

Ed
55Chevy

</div></div>

Son of a gun.... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif </div></div>

Hey D. What's shakin man? Hope you are doing well <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

[DarrenX33]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 55chevy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DarrenX33</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 55chevy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll come out of retirement to comment on this...

Ed
55Chevy

</div></div>

Son of a gun.... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif </div></div>

Hey D. What's shakin man? Hope you are doing well <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif</div></div>

You to buddy. Nice to see you still around.

[Salvatore]

Don't know anything about Dan P.'s personal cars but I do know he finds some really rare and desireable race cars and musclecars in the NY and NJ area. Finds some really interesting drag cars of the past.

[al8apex]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It might or might not be a real car but <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #990000">the seller is not allowed on this site</span></span> so can we keep the comments on camaros.net where is is allowed to post ? No need to be making fun of someone on here especially when he has no way to defend himself here. </div></div>

that was my guess ...

It seemed odd that it was on the Camaro site as well, aren't there Nova sites that would be a better place for it (as opposed to Team Camaro ... ) ?

[Igosplut]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: al8apex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

It seemed odd that it was on the Camaro site as well, aren't there Nova sites that would be a better place for it (as opposed to Team Camaro ... ) ? </div></div>

I used to post on Steves Nova site until I put &quot;sucks&quot; in a post. They edited it three times (putting asterisks, deleting the word, then the sentence, and finally removed the entire post. When I inquired why they dumped the entire post (on topic with no other &quot;questionable&quot; words) a woman mod informed me that &quot;children read these forums&quot;. So in the face of that, I just quietly left. So judging on what I've seen posted here if he got booted from here he wouldn't last one post over there(or didn't as the case may be)..

[motionwannabe]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It might or might not be a real car but the seller is not allowed on this site so can we keep the comments on camaros.net where is is allowed to post ? No need to be making fun of someone on here especially when he has no way to defend himself here. </div></div>

I don't know if the car is the real deal or not. I've talked to Dan on a few occasions and he was always decent to me. I can't really say anything bad of him either way.
I do however think he goes through alot of time and aggrevation to push this car as a &quot;real deal Motion Nova&quot; if it isn't one. The cars provenance and his credibility have been under speculation for so long its almost sad. I know he has ruffled alot of feathers in the hobby and theres quite a few people that don't care for him. To each their own I guess. It just seems odd to me that after all the abuse the guy has taken over this car that if it were indeed a phony why not stop advertising it?? Something makes him completely believe its real. As for the Joel Rosen letter he has , I do remember him telling me about it and Joel could not completely say YES IT IS A MOTION CAR or No it isnt a Motion car. It was plainly VAGUE at best. If beyond a shadow of a doubt that it wasn't a Motion Car why wouldn't Joel just tell Dan that and save him from public humiliation? I'm not completely sure but I think Dan paid Joel the &quot;documentaion fee&quot; and got a maybe. In my opion, I think someone else should buy this car ignoring the fact it it may or may not be a Motion Car and have all the research and paperwork done themselves and see what answer comes back. It would be nice to see one way or another if its real or just a 68 Nova with some peculiar mods done to it. Either way its still a pretty cool 68 NOVA

[jasonL78]

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/worship.gif
Agreed and well said. This is my understanding too. From what Dan has told me, he has a maybe letter. Why would Joel say it may be the <span style="font-weight: bold">Only</span> 68 Nova he converted or it may not be? He left the door wide open for a future owner. From a 68 Nova enthusiast this would be King Chicken Lip himself. (1 of 1...)
If anything it would be the only Sequoia green white vinyl top L48 Super sport car I know of with a bunch of options.

[Charley Lillard]

Then he should have just said he has a &quot;Maybe&quot; letter. If Joel doesn't have any record of the car and isn't sure if he built it he is doing the right thing by not documenting it. Since he also does not have proof that it isn't a real Motion car he is also doing the right thing by not saying it &quot;isn't&quot;. If he were to say it &quot;isn't&quot; and later it was proved wrong by paperwork etc showing up he might have somebody go after him for devaluing their car wrongly. Others are making that same mistake now. Dan isn't doing himself any favors by keeping the &quot;maybe&quot; letter secret. It only makes people suspicious

[motionwannabe]

Well after looking back in emails Dans &quot;maybe&quot; letter is from April 2003 i dont have a copy of it or Id post it. At one point Dan talked with Stanley Noren a former Motion mechanic and he remembered the 68 nova and is owner Freddy Calas quite well. I can not nor will I be the responsibe party for saying its real or not. However seems kinda sad if it is fake that Dans wasting time on it dont ya think? Hes gone under alot of speculation and been banned from several site over his desire to elieve this car is indeed real . Only Joel Rosen knows the truth. Id like this issue to be put to bed one way or another

[motionwannabe]

Why dont a few of the Motion gurus put their differences aside with Dan for the sake of the hobby and better understanding of Motion vehicles and for everyones knowledge and help find out the truth. It would benefit all of us that are Motion fans and would lay waste to any doubt of the car moving forward. Im just saying!

[Charley Lillard]

We have not said it is fake and that is not why he is not here. &quot;Only Joel Rosen knows the truth&quot; ? Joel obviously does not know and has said so. Unless Dan comes up with some kind of paperwork it will continue to be a &quot;maybe&quot; car. I don't think anyone's differences with Dan have anything to do with the fact that there is no documentation on the car.

[motionwannabe]

Charley, Im not saying anyone here per se is calling it a fake but the overall community consenus is that because lacking paperwork its a fake. In my eyes, given I had the money to buy it with the 427 , I'd beat the hell out of it!!! Just because of the aggrevation and ridicule from others (Syc excluded)that it caused one man. This car as it sits is worth no more than it was new. Sadly, maybe someone out there knows the truth. Maybe a builder or a buyer knows more about this particular car than Dan does. His price seems ok if its real. I would beat it like a running mule!!!!!! Then everyone would say &quot; Oh My God why are you doing that&quot; This is a double edged sword that has cut Dan and made him look bad. My approach is, If anyone out there knows beyond a reasonable doubt that this car is INDEED a fake speak up with the proof. If not ,forever hold your piece and let the man sell his car!! A 68 Nova is an awesome car!! An SS 427 68 Nova is one hell of a ride!! Help him figure it out one way or another! I know of a few collectors that had to take legal action against Joel to prove the provenance of their Motion cars. Should Dan go that route???? Lets hope not.I don't give a rats a$$ if its real or not but when provenance keeps a &quot;Car Guy&quot; from enjoying his car, What is this hobby really worth?? To all MOTION Super Car Gurus and Joel and anyone that may know, Lets put this to bed!!! Its gone on for far too long turned a car guy into a bad guy ( I applaud Dan for standing up for what he believes , Right , Wrong or Indifferent) Its time to either kill the Unicorn for being fake or prove to the world its real. Why is it that people have to fight about this?? If he's wrong prove him so. If hes right help him document it. I absolutely hate how the Car Community can treat a person. Me, my wife and our committee hold a Car Cruise every year to help a family. My son had a stroke at birth and almost died. I try to help a family going through a hardship like we went through and let me tell you some of the people in this hobby are greedy, self indulging worms. They would rather point fingers and say whats wrong with one another cars than help each other and let the knowledge flourish. I hope before my son is old enough to truely appreciate cars this attitude changes. If not, Ill have him follow Joel Rosen and appreciate plastic model airplanes and Naval ships. Maybe he would be better off in the Mini Bike community where theres less staring down ones nose at someone and everyone appreciates each other. Nevertheless, how can anyone question Dan unless they have the hard cold proof his car is BS??? He does however have a &quot;Maybe&quot; letter but thats worth no more than the paper its printed or the information contained therein or maybe the signature at the bottom. Just my 2 cents.

[Charley Lillard]

Dan has a car with no paperwork or proof so what is there to prove ? You want someone to prove it is a fake ? The community is keeping him from enjoying his car ? How ? He can build it and enjoy it as is but instead he has been trying to unload it. We have to certify his car why ? So he can unload it for more ? I'm glad he found it and maybe some day some paperwork will pop up but until it does I don't see why you feel the community needs to jump thru hoops trying to find a needle in a haystack to help Dan sell his car. Has he gotten Notarized letters from anyone that says they remember the car ? Anything like that ? We don't know because he is misleading in his ad. He says in his ad he has a letter from Joel. That infers it is documented by Joel but apparently it is a maybe letter. Don't you think that was misleading in his ad ? You want us to jump thru hoops for someone that is purposefully misleading us in his ad ? I'm sure Dan has done more research and turned over more rocks looking for proof than most of us could. I think if any of us had info that would shed light on his car we would be glad to help. Anyone else with different motives but had proof would have already bought it from Dan. Make sense ?

[motionwannabe]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dan has a car with no paperwork or proof so what is there to prove ? You want someone to prove it is a fake ? The community is keeping him from enjoying his car ? How ? He can build it and enjoy it as is but instead he has been trying to unload it. We have to certify his car why ? So he can unload it for more ? I'm glad he found it and maybe some day some paperwork will pop up but until it does I don't see why you feel the community needs to jump thru hoops trying to find a needle in a haystack to help Dan sell his car. Has he gotten Notarized letters from anyone that says they remember the car ? Anything like that ? We don't know because he is misleading in his ad. He says in his ad he has a letter from Joel. That infers it is documented by Joel but apparently it is a maybe letter. Don't you think that was misleading in his ad ? You want us to jump thru hoops for someone that is purposefully misleading us in his ad ? I'm sure Dan has done more research and turned over more rocks looking for proof than most of us could. I think if any of us had info that would shed light on his car we would be glad to help. Anyone else with different motives but had proof would have already bought it from Dan. Make sense ? </div></div>
Charley, I agree with what you are saying and it makes sense. I didnt mean to make it sound like I think people should jump through hoops for Dan. All I'm trying to say is, I don't understand why, but Dan has stood behind this car under mass scrutiny for some reason. He has taken more verbal abuse than anyone else over a car that may be or may not be real. He sent me an email of the letter from Joel and it is vague at best. His ad is misleading and does imply that he has a letter of documentation and would most definitely lead someone to think that Joel gave it his blessing, when in fact he basically said &quot;I do not know&quot;. Theres a bunch of other drama over this car reguarding phone calls from collectors,so on and so forth that Dan has gone through. All I'm trying to say is for the cars sake it would be nice to have this all put to bed. It has gone on for so long. Dan says he has an NICB report for the car. I never looked at that. I'm not trying to make anyone mad nor do I want to be in the middle of some crazed dispute like in the past. I would just like to know what the car is or isn't and if someone buys it I hope they try to figure it out. As far as what I said about &quot;keeping Dan from enjoying his car&quot; what I meant was all the scrutiny and &quot;fog&quot; around it when he brings it up, How could anyone enjoy it with so much drama.If I were him, and the car was in fact beyond a shadow of a doubt real, theres no way after all the bs I could enjoy it. Does that make sense?? Maybe Dan should put it together and give it a good beating just because. Maybe, If Dan wants to, he can send one of us a pic of his letter from Joel (both pages) and we could post if for everyone to see. For me, I couldn't care how much money he gets out of that car one way or another and I'm not asking anyone to help him for monetary gain. All I meant was just to prove one way or another what the car is. I do agree if the provenance was there this car would be in someone elses collection.

[x Baldwin Motion]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Dan says he has an NICB report for the car. .
</div></div>


seriously, like the letter?

well...... is the car from Baldwin or not? (that shouldn't be a vague answer)


I feel bad for this car owner if he has a real car but no pictures, no docs, not a shred of evidence that this is the only known 68 1/2 BM Nova, and he has had it for several years and it has been talked about for nearly as long, yet nobody knows about a bit of its history.

[enio45]

A few bits of info below that i have received in the last 30 days about the car.

NICB report back in 2002 says dealer 39327 (pic of the letter is a little fuzzy) but i believe this is correct or very close - and it seems from the email that kevin sudan did the nicb on the car and sent it to dan.

So the question is - is dealer 39327 Baldwin or a local dealer in the area?

Dan does have a good amount of data that strongly supports that it &quot;could be&quot; the car...i believe that data needs to be well organised, authenticated and re-presented to Joel - remember, alot of additional research he did was after the Joel letter in 2003 - which says it is a maybe car - and Joel has no documention in his files to support anything else other than - maybe it is, but he does not have any data to certify it is, period!

It would be good if a group of serious motion experts from the hobby could help, relooking at the data he has and compiling it accordingly to either put the car in the pedigree it deserves or NOT.

[PeteLeathersac]

Baldwin Chevy NY was Zone # 27, Dealer # 19.
Zone # 39 was usually dealers in S/W States like Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico etc.

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif
~ Pete

[enio45]

not sure what you provided to what i have available ..ill confirm the info to be sure im reading the copy of the letter correctly

[69LM1]

In the other thread, my camaro came back as Zone 27, dealer 079, Curry Chevrolet. &quot;Dealer 27079&quot;
I would think all New York dealers in that area would be zone 27?

RichPern

[NovaMob03]

According to Dan, his Nova came back 35-327...Wallace Chev in Linden NJ &amp; Fredy Calas lived in Elizibeth NJ, about 44 mi from Baldwin Chev <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/burnout.gif

[enio45]

I can confirm the above and correction to my previous email - just received this from dan ....

Kevin Suydams email. Its 35-327 Wallace Chevrolet Linden NJ. 35='s Newark NJ zone. Anyway the original owner Fredy Calas lived the next town over in Elizabeth NJ on Jersey Street off Broad street. Elizabeth/Linden were approx 44 road miles to Baldwin Long Island where Motion was

[njsteve]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: enio45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Elizabeth/Linden were approx 44 road miles to Baldwin Long Island where Motion was </div></div>

That's about a two and a half hour drive at any time other than Christmas morning at around 3 AM.

[NovaMob03]

The ZLX was sold in TN and made it's way to Long Island. Back in the day when gas was cheap nobody cared about driving...I'd go to Ocean City, MD to spend one night, with 15 min notice &amp; enough money for a 12 pack and smokes.
Seems logical the either Rich's Camaro or Dan's Nova could have gone thru Joel's shop. Also logical to think that not all the Motion conversion cars were sold just from Baldwin Chev.

[luzl78]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: enio45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can confirm the above and correction to my previous email - just received this from dan ....

Kevin Suydams email. Its 35-327 Wallace Chevrolet Linden NJ. 35='s Newark NJ zone. Anyway the original owner Fredy Calas lived the next town over in Elizabeth NJ on Jersey Street off Broad street. Elizabeth/Linden were approx 44 road miles to Baldwin Long Island where Motion was </div></div>wouldn't Joel remember the name Freddy Calais or any old time Newark street racers who might still be alive remember Freddy's car.you'd think the motion mechanic would help vouch for it?

[69LM1]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: luzl78</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: enio45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can confirm the above and correction to my previous email - just received this from dan ....

Kevin Suydams email. Its 35-327 Wallace Chevrolet Linden NJ. 35='s Newark NJ zone. Anyway the original owner Fredy Calas lived the next town over in Elizabeth NJ on Jersey Street off Broad street. Elizabeth/Linden were approx 44 road miles to Baldwin Long Island where Motion was </div></div>wouldn't Joel remember the name Freddy Calais or any old time Newark street racers who might still be alive remember Freddy's car.you'd think the motion mechanic would help vouch for it? </div></div>

I *think* I remember the last time I was on the phone with Dan, about a month ago, that he did actually get in touch with the mechanic and that he remembered the\a car. Can't remember if it was from a description or a photo or the details or if Dan was able to meet up with him. I'll email Dan and see.

Is Dan permanatly banned? It would be better to hear it all from him. We can all be a little off from time to time, especially me.

RichPern

[x Baldwin Motion]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: enio45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Elizabeth/Linden were approx 44 road miles to Baldwin Long Island where Motion was </div></div>

That's about a two and a half hour drive at any time other than Christmas morning at around 3 AM. </div></div>

Even in the 70's that was not a hop skip and a jump of a ride. The connecting highway was considered a great distance for driving. (about half hour/ 25 miles from Baldwin)
I don't recall anyone &quot;cruising&quot; to Jersey. However, I can't speak for the Jersey boys, they may have had no speed shops?! locally??!!

[njsteve]

Lots of speed shops here back in the day. My mechanic buddy Al, was a dealership mechanic in Newark back in the day and still remembers a lot of the cars that were around back then...and still are.

I have a lot of receipts from this place that go with my hemi charger.

http://www.yenko.net/attachments/usergals/2012/10/full-1359-1198-centraljerseyspeedad.jpg

[K code Mustang]

Central Jersey is still in business. I was just there about 3 weeks ago, I needed new flywheel bolts for a small block chevy project. They are one of the last true speed shops around, step inside and it's like walking back in time ! They have a wall there with equipment, trophies, tools, parts and gauges from the fifties and sixties...a true time warp.

[njsteve]

John, are they still at the same address?

[x Baldwin Motion]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lots of speed shops here back in the day. My mechanic buddy Al, was a dealership mechanic in Newark back in the day and still remembers a lot of the cars that were around back then...and still are.

I have a lot of receipts from this place that go with my hemi charger.

http://www.yenko.net/attachments/usergals/2012/10/full-1359-1198-centraljerseyspeedad.jpg
</div></div>


so why would somebody drive to Long Island for speed parts, especially with THAT counter girl?

[Hemicolt]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: x Baldwin Motion</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lots of speed shops here back in the day. My mechanic buddy Al, was a dealership mechanic in Newark back in the day and still remembers a lot of the cars that were around back then...and still are.

I have a lot of receipts from this place that go with my hemi charger.

http://www.yenko.net/attachments/usergals/2012/10/full-1359-1198-centraljerseyspeedad.jpg
</div></div>


so why would somebody drive to Long Island for speed parts, especially with THAT counter girl?</div></div>

Hard up?

[K code Mustang]

Steve, my mistake...I was talking about California speed and sport which is in New Brunswick. I guess all the years of burnt rubber and cam 2 exposure must be taking it's toll ! California speed and sport was established in 1956 and is still in operation. The old Central jersey building is now a nail salon and a pizza place... I don't know if Dianne is still there but I guess you can still get paint (on your nails) and grease (on your pizza). I would bet that the Wickbergs made a trip or two to CS&amp;S for parts for the Charger.

[markinnaples]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lots of speed shops here back in the day. My mechanic buddy Al, was a dealership mechanic in Newark back in the day and still remembers a lot of the cars that were around back then...and still are.

I have a lot of receipts from this place that go with my hemi charger.

http://www.yenko.net/attachments/usergals/2012/10/full-1359-1198-centraljerseyspeedad.jpg
</div></div>

She looks scared, lol.

[x Baldwin Motion]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hemicolt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: x Baldwin Motion</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lots of speed shops here back in the day. My mechanic buddy Al, was a dealership mechanic in Newark back in the day and still remembers a lot of the cars that were around back then...and still are.

I have a lot of receipts from this place that go with my hemi charger.

http://www.yenko.net/attachments/usergals/2012/10/full-1359-1198-centraljerseyspeedad.jpg
</div></div>


so why would somebody drive to Long Island for speed parts, especially with THAT counter girl?</div></div>

Hard up? </div></div> there were no counter girls in auto parts around here,especially with cleavage. Lol

[Hemicolt]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: markinnaples</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lots of speed shops here back in the day. My mechanic buddy Al, was a dealership mechanic in Newark back in the day and still remembers a lot of the cars that were around back then...and still are.

I have a lot of receipts from this place that go with my hemi charger.

http://www.yenko.net/attachments/usergals/2012/10/full-1359-1198-centraljerseyspeedad.jpg
</div></div>

She looks scared, lol.</div></div>

and cowering down.
Maybe John Holmes was in the room...lol

Ok guys most everyone on this site and the camaro site know Dan from over the years. I only met him once in person. When he came to look at a relatives Motion car. Did not know anything about him or his reputation on a few of these sites. My experience is that he went out of his way for free for complete stranger to help him document a motion car. Now everyone has herd a story or two of a owner of a motion car that may or may not be real for one owner. Then puff car gets sold and soon after that car is a real motion car! Yes Dan is a unique gentlemen and may rub some people the wrong way, but he has found many rare cars over the years and has helped people for FREE document there own cars. As for his nova, he does have a ton of stuff that points to it being a Motion car. I would bet almost anything that when this car is sold it ends up a DOCUMENTED Motion Nova at some point! JMHO

[Dave Rifkin]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JD502</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok guys most everyone on this site and the camaro site know Dan from over the years. I only met him once in person. When he came to look at a relatives Motion car. Did not know anything about him or his reputation on a few of these sites. My experience is that he went out of his way for free for complete stranger to help him document a motion car. Now everyone has herd a story or two of a owner of a motion car that may or may not be real for one owner. Then puff car gets sold and soon after that car is a real motion car! Yes Dan is a unique gentlemen and may rub some people the wrong way, but he has found many rare cars over the years and has helped people for FREE document there own cars. As for his nova, he does have a ton of stuff that points to it being a Motion car. I would bet almost anything that when this car is sold it ends up a DOCUMENTED Motion Nova at some point! JMHO </div></div>

Okay, now we need to hear about the relatives Motion car. I am a HUGE fan of Motion vehicles and would love to hear what more about what they have.

[Fast67VelleN2O]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JD502</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My experience is that he went out of his way for free for complete stranger to help him document a motion car. </div></div>

If he helps out to solidly document 100% an original Motion vehicle, then why not do that for his own Nova?

-Matt

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fast67VelleN2O</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JD502</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My experience is that he went out of his way for free for complete stranger to help him document a motion car. </div></div>

If he helps out to solidly document 100% an original Motion vehicle, then why not do that for his own Nova?

-Matt </div></div>


MATT, I believe ( and this is JMHO) that he is not to friendly with Joel. (End this is hurting his chances of getting to the bottom of this matter) And he does have a ton of stuff on the car, and from what I believe even ex employees know of the car. I dont wanna speak to much on the documents and evidence he does have on this vehicle, as its not my car.
But like I said before if this car gets sold to anyone and is titled out of the current owners name. I would bet anything that this car is a documented motion car at some point. Can't bet the wifes new Tahoe she would shoot me:)

[motionwannabe]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JD502</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fast67VelleN2O</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JD502</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My experience is that he went out of his way for free for complete stranger to help him document a motion car. </div></div>

If he helps out to solidly document 100% an original Motion vehicle, then why not do that for his own Nova?

-Matt </div></div>


MATT, I believe ( and this is JMHO) that he is not to friendly with Joel. (End this is hurting his chances of getting to the bottom of this matter) And he does have a ton of stuff on the car, and from what I believe even ex employees know of the car. I dont wanna speak to much on the documents and evidence he does have on this vehicle, as its not my car.
But like I said before if this car gets sold to anyone and is titled out of the current owners name. I would bet anything that this car is a documented motion car at some point. Can't bet the wifes new Tahoe she would shoot me:) </div></div> <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/haha.gif Thats funny!!! I agree with you JD502. I know Dan as well. Not a bad guy. Does have alot of info on this car. What it all entales I'm not sure. Sadly , he and his car are constantly under speculation by the upper eschalon of the hobby. A while ago I got a box in the mail just before Christmas from Dan. It was an old VHS tape converted from 35mm film. On that tape was old Drag races which a good many cars at the races were Baldwin Motion 1st Gen Camaros and a few Vettes as well as some badass Novas.All vehicles were New York Plated. Like I said he's always been ok to me. I do recall though him telling me that the car he has created some hostility between Joel and himself.

[robber6910]

Does anyone know if this Freddy Calas guy is still alive??? This guy Dan mentions his name all thoughtout this whole ordeal as well as the ex Motion mechanic. What was that guys name??? Why not get something documented from them as well? Granted Mr Rosen might not remember the car but it is a possibility that maybe one of his employees worked on the car? Was Mr Rosen always at the shop everyday? Also has anyone given the thought that maybe this guy Freddie just purchased all the motion parts over the counter and had them installed at a different shop closer to his home? Though it was only a 44 mile drive from Elizabeth NJ to the Motion shop out on L.I., it's a long a*s drive. You'd have to go over the George Washington Bridge, down the Major Deegan then over the Triboro or Whitestone Bridges then down the Van Wyck to the Belt Parkway then out Sunrise Hwy to Motion. What was the normal turnaround time for a conversion to take place?? He'd have to leave it there for a cpl of days then drive all the way back out to motion to pick up the car? It only seems logical that he would buy the parts to do the conversion himself. I would have to believe that there were alot of speed shops out in NJ back during that period. Just wanted to put that thought out there and not trying to step on anyone's toes.

[69LM1]

I *think* Dan told me that the mechanic remembers the car well, not sure if he notarized anything though. I know the guy was up there in age from what I remember Dan telling me. I think the mechanic is on the outs with JR as well?

Heck, look at Roger D, the orginal owner of a DH COPO, with his original paperwork that he cannot get &quot;certified&quot; on by the DH group.

Who you run with can mean the difference in this hobby, and I can genuinely say that Dan is an honest guy.

I agree that in the right hands, the car would probably get paper.

RichP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: robber6910</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does anyone know if this Freddy Calas guy is still alive??? This guy Dan mentions his name all thoughtout this whole ordeal as well as the ex Motion mechanic. What was that guys name??? Why not get something documented from them as well? Granted Mr Rosen might not remember the car but it is a possibility that maybe one of his employees worked on the car? Was Mr Rosen always at the shop everyday? Also has anyone given the thought that maybe this guy Freddie just purchased all the motion parts over the counter and had them installed at a different shop closer to his home? Though it was only a 44 mile drive from Elizabeth NJ to the Motion shop out on L.I., it's a long a*s drive. You'd have to go over the George Washington Bridge, down the Major Deegan then over the Triboro or Whitestone Bridges then down the Van Wyck to the Belt Parkway then out Sunrise Hwy to Motion. What was the normal turnaround time for a conversion to take place?? He'd have to leave it there for a cpl of days then drive all the way back out to motion to pick up the car? It only seems logical that he would buy the parts to do the conversion himself. I would have to believe that there were alot of speed shops out in NJ back during that period. Just wanted to put that thought out there and not trying to step on anyone's toes. </div></div>


I drove 2 hours for my wifes Tahoe and got nothing out of it. I dont think 45 minutes is far fetched. If I had the extra money I would drive to Chicago to get a Nickey car in a second. Thats 10 hours away.

As for the ex mechanic He was alive a few years ago when I met him, Long before I knew Dan. And he told me a few stories of shenanagens with documentation of motion cars. ( yes it could be a pissed ex employee) But his motion chevelle was cool, and the pics of it getting worked on with Joel by his side where cooler. Only time will tell!

[Hemicolt]

Are you implying that we might live in a society where certain groups of people look out for each other and shun others that don't make the grade...lol
Really though, very good point. The world shouldn't be like that.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 69LM1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I *think* Dan told me that the mechanic remembers the car well, not sure if he notarized anything though. I know the guy was up there in age from what I remember Dan telling me. I think the mechanic is on the outs with JR as well?

Heck, look at Roger D, the orginal owner of a DH COPO, with his original paperwork that he cannot get &quot;certified&quot; on by the DH group.

Who you run with can mean the difference in this hobby, and I can genuinely say that Dan is an honest guy.

I agree that in the right hands, the car would probably get paper.

RichP </div></div>

[motionwannabe]

Tracy , you are 100% correct. The world shouldn't be like that.

[iluv69s]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: robber6910</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Also has anyone given the thought that maybe this guy Freddie just purchased all the motion parts over the counter and had them installed at a different shop closer to his home? Though it was only a 44 mile drive from Elizabeth NJ to the Motion shop out on L.I., it's a long a*s drive. You'd have to go over the George Washington Bridge, down the Major Deegan then over the Triboro or Whitestone Bridges then down the Van Wyck to the Belt Parkway then out Sunrise Hwy to Motion. What was the normal turnaround time for a conversion to take place?? He'd have to leave it there for a cpl of days then drive all the way back out to motion to pick up the car? It only seems logical that he would buy the parts to do the conversion himself. I would have to believe that there were alot of speed shops out in NJ back during that period. Just wanted to put that thought out there and not trying to step on anyone's toes. </div></div>

With all due respect, This was MOTION PERFORMANCE !! not just any speed shop..Imagine a guy came from Mexico and picked up a Motion Chevelle....and then drove it all the way back to Mexico...and he even had with a Motion Camaro tow-barred behind !!! I do not think driving from North Jersey to Long Island is such a stretch...jmho

[njsteve]

These days it takes about the same amount of time to get to Long Island from Jersey as going from Long Island to Mexico. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif
The traffic is nuts, I tell ya!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: iluv69s</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: robber6910</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Also has anyone given the thought that maybe this guy Freddie just purchased all the motion parts over the counter and had them installed at a different shop closer to his home? Though it was only a 44 mile drive from Elizabeth NJ to the Motion shop out on L.I., it's a long a*s drive. You'd have to go over the George Washington Bridge, down the Major Deegan then over the Triboro or Whitestone Bridges then down the Van Wyck to the Belt Parkway then out Sunrise Hwy to Motion. What was the normal turnaround time for a conversion to take place?? He'd have to leave it there for a cpl of days then drive all the way back out to motion to pick up the car? It only seems logical that he would buy the parts to do the conversion himself. I would have to believe that there were alot of speed shops out in NJ back during that period. Just wanted to put that thought out there and not trying to step on anyone's toes. </div></div>

With all due respect, This was MOTION PERFORMANCE !! not just any speed shop..Imagine a guy came from Mexico and picked up a Motion Chevelle....and then drove it all the way back to Mexico...and he even had with a Motion Camaro tow-barred behind !!! I do not think driving from North Jersey to Long Island is such a stretch...jmho </div></div>

Very good point!!

In June of 2005 there was a 1970 chevelle motion car in Arizona on ebay. If I remember correctly the seller said in the ad. ( I have ad somewhere). Joel said he thought he remembered the car. The seller paid the 1500.00 and Joel said he did not have any docs on the car. The car was sold as a non motion chevelle. I believe now the car is a well documented Motion Chevelle. Maybe I'm reading into this a little to much,(which is probably the case).

[luzl78]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JD502</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In June of 2005 there was a 1970 chevelle motion car in Arizona on ebay. If I remember correctly the seller said in the ad. ( I have ad somewhere). Joel said he thought he remembered the car. The seller paid the 1500.00 and Joel said he did not have any docs on the car. The car was sold as a non motion chevelle. I believe now the car is a well documented Motion Chevelle. Maybe I'm reading into this a little to much,(which is probably the case). </div></div>. Ring. Ring. Hello,this is bob. Hey bob,this is Joel in Florida. Just wanted you to know that there is a Chevrolet in Arizona that I think you should buy. I know you've been looking for one of my cars and it would behoove you to buy this car. Hint hint,

[Charley Lillard]

Can we stop with the Joel bashing. If Joel didn't have any docs on the Chevelle but later it had them it could be that someone did more digging and found a prior owner etc. if you have facts, state them but don't put out stories that some guy said etc.

[ronebee]

I worked with Joel Documenting the Moray GT when I owned it, was it easy? No. did he say it was one of his right away? Nope, But when I found the guy who painted it the wrong color originally ( A bass boat green metallic, he sprayed the yellow over grey primer, DUH!) and when I found the guy who put the interior in the Car (Dondee, good guy, still in business) he remembered the car. Listen, I just turned 50, there are things I can't remember I did yesterday, and when I talk to people about, uhm, &quot;events&quot; and stunts I pulled in the 80's and they say, &quot;Ron! Do you remember when you did that?&quot; I can honestly say it takes a couple of days to jog my memory. Joel is a Good Cat and a legend. Honestly, chasing down info on this car was AWESOME! It was like openning up the Hands of Time and peeking back into these folks lives..I have two cars now I'm trying to document, one I believe to be a motion Car, but I wouldn't approach Joel with it yet, I don't have enough info yet....(then I gotta figure out this 68 roadster that I think is a yenko car, but that's another story)...I agree with Charlie, I think Joel is a good cat, I enjoy the time that I have spent with him and the stories, The Stories! Wow....

[NovaMob03]

Ron, what you've just described is really the crux of the matter when documenting a real Motion Perf built car....and that is that JR apparently did not keep all invoices for work they performed, but relies on photographs, NICB or perhaps input from others in his shop that may remember a particular car.
It also appears that, at least once, money has been sent for possible confirmation (Rich's Camaro) &amp; there was no response (I'm assuming the check was cashed). It's also apparent that at least 1 car got a verbal 'no', then later confirmed and I understand how that can be possible. But, very inconsistent and particularly for that seller
It's a question of the factual 'paper trail' evidence vs present day photographic/hearsay evidence and JR's memory and paying for letter printed on his stationary...perform your due diligence, know that real documentation matters and caveat emptor

Also heard thru the grapevine that the Iowa/ebay Chevelle with all the Motion evidence got a maybe letter and not a full confirmation...what does that really mean <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif

[PxTx]

I would love to know specifically what type of Motion Nova is the car in question supposed to be?


It makes no sense to bash Joel on anything to do with this Nova. If the right info can be presented to Joel, and it is compelling enough it will become a documented car. As of right now, it is very far from being even a Motion car, let alone a BM car.

There are a lot of people NOT commenting on this thread. I probably should stay out of it too, but here we are 3 pages into it and I'm entering in. It seems like several of the posts are from those who get frequent phone calls from Dan, especially when threads on his car come up. I'm reading many of Dan's speculations posted by others, which are far from having a healthy perspective on both sides of this situation. As much as Dan may believe these things ideas to be true, he has a jaded and flawed perspective but nobody will convince him of this. In his head he is justified. He is a passionate guy and wears his heart on his sleeve. Helps people when he can which is great for those people. All those positive points don't make up for when a guy's wrong. He needs to find more to support his claims and resubmit. Instead, energy has been spent trying to cast a negative light on Joel.

Again, what is the car supposed to be with all of this research? Any old pics? I've heard that Dan felt his Nova was the 1st L88 Phase III Motion Nova. How did he submit things to Joel? Does Dan still believe he has the 1st?

Was it the original owner, Freddy Calas buys a new Nova then goes to Motion for a Phase III treatment including L88, interior color change, exterior color change, tow tabs? Was Freddy a business owner or somehow independently wealthy to afford all of this? Was the car dealer traded and financed both on purchase and Motion conversion? There may be a paper trail in the financing then, plus it could then be a BM car! Other theories?

One of the strangest things with this car is the whole fuel line running through the interior of the car poking out near the small block heater hoes area in the firewall. Who does that? The single Dupree/Autopulse fuel pump claimed to be mounted under the car ain't gonna support enough horsepower.

He had lots of other vintage speed equipment in the trunk and around the car. When I asked where he got some of the components he said he didn't know. Either it came with the car or it came from somewhere else, and I don't think he forgot. At one point I felt there was merit to the possibility to his car being at Motion's shop. The more real motion cars I've had the chance to get up close and personal with- such as Lud's 68 Camaro, the further Dan's car becomes form anything of the sort. At best, it might have been in the Motion shop a little later in life. It is a shame Dan feels slighted by Joel, but more info is needed to support a Motion connection.


So are we talking BM, later L88 Motion conversion, or just been at the Motion shop? What is this Nova supposed to be?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can we stop with the Joel bashing. If Joel didn't have any docs on the Chevelle but later it had them it could be that someone did more digging and found a prior owner etc. if you have facts, state them but don't put out stories that some guy said etc. </div></div>

Charlie I have done nothing more then state the facts as they have been made public through ebay ads, and the current owner on that chevelle. And yes I have had family dealing with Joel and there has been the same song and dance as other people have recieved. NO ONE new about the car in question, but damm there was a hefty offer from a phone call a few weeks later. The truth is if you run with the right crowd things can happen for you! And this is not just in the automotive world. JMHO!

So are we talking BM, later L88 Motion conversion, or just been at the Motion shop? What is this Nova supposed to be? [/quote


Only time will tell!!

What is the Actual cost now a days for Joel to Document a car? I do have to say it probably is two cheap if it is still 1k-2k. the price value of these cars goes up so much with documentation. Of course it sucks if its not, but its like a winning lottery ticket if it is!
Anyone know how much it cost to get one documented now?

[Carleen]

2,500.00 $

WENT UP A LITTLE BUT STILL NOT BAD IF YOUR CAR GETS THE GREENLIGHT!

[bergy]

Well said PXTX - it's the complete investigation that yields answers to the &quot;why&quot; and &quot;how&quot; any modified car got to its current state. Charley can chime in, but that's probably one of the reasons why he prefers the unaltered survivor (no questions) cars. Others enjoy the research aspect of the modified cars. Whatever the original status of the car in question was - it's story deserves to be told. All owners, full photographic physical documentation, etc. It's a POTENTIAL treasure &amp; shouldn't be lost to history. JMHO

[JoeC]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JD502</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Anyone know how much it cost to get one documented now? </div></div>

Joel may vary the fee with the value of the car. When I bought the two 1980's Motion cars, the fee was a lot lower then a higher value Motion car was at the time.

[Hemicolt]

I do not know this first hand, but I have been told numbers as high as 5 digits.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JoeC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JD502</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Anyone know how much it cost to get one documented now? </div></div>

Joel may vary the fee with the value of the car. When I bought the two 1980's Motion cars, the fee was a lot lower then a higher value Motion car was at the time. </div></div>

[69LM1]

I don't know about that. I remember we (my brother) were in the $2-2500 range. All I can say for sure is that this business of a &quot;maybe&quot;, and then the refusal to give you any paper stating the &quot;maybe&quot; stinks.

If you pay, you should get an answer in a report supporting that answer. To take someones money and then refuse to issue any written opinion chafes my butt.

On my car, I finally got the NICB showing Curry Chevrolet near motion a few years later and placed several calls into Joel with the updated information, even offered to pay a suppliemtal fee to get a yes-no or maybe. Never a return call.

I did (and this is firsthand, God is my witness) get calls from people I won't name to buy the car though after that.

RichP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bergy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well said PXTX - it's the complete investigation that yields answers to the &quot;why&quot; and &quot;how&quot; any modified car got to its current state. Charley can chime in, but that's probably one of the reasons why he prefers the <span style="color: #FF0000">unaltered survivor (no questions) cars</span>. Others enjoy the research aspect of the modified cars. Whatever the original status of the car in question was - it's story deserves to be told. All owners, full photographic physical documentation, etc. It's a POTENTIAL treasure &amp; shouldn't be lost to history. JMHO </div></div>


I know that is not always the case! cause original paint and untouched low milage car got a little better then maybe but not yes!!

[motionwannabe]

I have talked to Joel a few times on the phone and by email. He was always very helpful and pleasant to talk to. I don't understand the whole deal with the car that wasn't but now is a MOTION car but oh well. Joel told me when I was looking at a Camaro we believed to be a MOTION car &quot;Do your homework!!! Get all info that you can.&quot; I think alot of people think he some kind of a memory bank. I highly DOUBT a man in his 70's can remember every single car he ever had at his shop. I don't know nor will I pretend to know what transpired with other peoples conversations with Joel but I know he seems to me like the kind of guy that your attitude towards him is gonna reflect his towards you. Wasn't there a flood or fire that alot of documents got destroyed in? As far as Dan's Nova is concerned,Have any of you read Joel's letter to Dan reguarding the Nova? Now I consider Dan a friend but something bad must have happened between them because in the letter apperently Dan had asked for the doc fee back and Joel stated never before had he returned the fee but he would this time with the stipulation that Dan was not to have any further contact with him. Also ,in the letter Joel stated that his findings were inconclusive at best. He gave Dan the &quot;INFAMOUS MAYBE&quot;. Before you guys go riding through town with Joels head on a stick, maybe and this is just a suggestion, maybe we should find out exactly what happened between the two of them. Something had to make Joel tell Dan to basically leave him alone and refrain from contact with him. As far as the chevelle in question in one of the previous post, Its like Bergys Yenko, alot of people called B.S. on the car and because of Bergys determination and resourcefulness and detective work he now has &quot;The Yenko disquised as a Z/28&quot;. Maybe the new owner of the chevelle followed more leads, maybe he was a friend of someone who had the right docs and proof of the car. None of us know that is why we question it. It would be nice to be able to hear both Dan and Joels side but I doubt thats gonna happen.If anyone out there knows any info on Dans car, share it. And maybe it will help to put this nightmare to bed for both sides.

[Juz10efx]

From my personal Experience ,Joel told me $2500 to research my car(72 corvette widebody) last year.I did not have the cash,and it could come back no or even maybe so it's a gamble..However,Joel is a really nice guy, and replies quickly,none of the other Corvette modifiers even replied..He told me via e-mail that my car looked like their parts and that he didn't know if they built it or not and the only way to tell would be a $2500 non-refundable fee..which I think is reasonable if you think you have a high-dollar car you may want to part with for cash later on..I not only did not have the cash, but I had nothing really to aid in the research either.

[motionwannabe]

The fee has been $2500.00 for the past few years. That is a hefty hunk of change for an inconclusive letter. I didn't mean to make it seem like I doubt Dan's car. I don't doubt that it could be the real deal. I just don't understand all the animosity toward the whole subject of it. So many people are quick to give Dan a boot in the ass and send him on his way. It almost like Dan saying he has a BABE RUTH baseball you can't read the writing but research proved it to be real but a certain historian claims other wise and says it belonged to Babe the Pig from childrens movies. The car does have a lot of tell tale signs. I just wish it could be provrn one way or another without a doubt.