1969 Z28 eBay block pic

[Tracker1]

Hi guys

kind of urgent on this - it's a pic of a block from a car on ebay I am very interested in and getting ready to pull trigger on - long story, short - is there a chunk of metal missing from back of the block webbing? see bottom right corner of pic by black bar(engine stand):

http://i962.photobucket.com/albums/ae110/guyfromnewf/castingarea.jpg

[x77-69z28]

That's what it looks like to me. Also I have never seen a block casting number like that before. Post the link, so we can look at the rest of the pics

[Fast67VelleN2O]

Hi,
That is a damaged block for sure, but it may be repairable depending on the extent of the damage. According to Jerry's report on that car, the engine is a restamp as is the transmission.

-Matt

[Tracker1]

NEW EMAIL from the owner (he did not volunteer this info, even when we agreed on a price):

"That happened by me when I got the engine from the guys. It bumped into the trailer while it was being loaded. I have the piece."

here is the car:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221160750602&ssPageNam e=ADME:X:RTQ:MOTORS:1123#ht_2330wt_1179

[427.060]

Link doesn't work for me. Here is a new one.
James

Ebay Z28 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221160750602)

[Fast67VelleN2O]

Thats an oil passage so it would be an easy repair and hidden by the bell housing.

[Tracker1]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fast67VelleN2O</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thats an oil passage so it would be an easy repair and hidden by the bell housing. </div></div>

easy repair epoxy or easy repair weld?

NEW PIC FROM OWNER:

http://i962.photobucket.com/albums/ae110/guyfromnewf/IMG-20121210-00189.jpg

[Fast67VelleN2O]

Oops, I was wrong, not an oil passage, was thinking it was another part of the block. Just the dowl pin hole. Easy weld repair in my opinion. Whoever would use epoxy there isn't very smart.

[Tracker1]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fast67VelleN2O</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi,
That is a damaged block for sure, but it may be repairable depending on the extent of the damage. According to Jerry's report on that car, the engine is a restamp as is the transmission.

-Matt </div></div>

According to the owner the transmission in the pic of the ebay auction is the trans that was out for re-build when Jerry came to look at the car in '09. The VIN down by the oil filter is not a re-stamp - seems clear to me it's the matching numbers block, even if the pad itself is a re-stamp...and Jerry has verified that VIN as a Z28 sooooo...

[Stefano]

The &quot;3&quot;s on the engine stamp have a flat head while the &quot;3&quot;s on trans have a round head.

[Billohio]

Looks like alot of the stamps are wrong. I am on my phone and couldn't see the block vin well but the vin on it and the transmission should be identical. If he says the transmission is not the one jerry saw and they don't match, one is for sure restamped. My car is built the same week

[Salvatore]

only problem with it Des is that you will have to tell stories and defend certain things about this car forever.

[Fast67VelleN2O]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tracker1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fast67VelleN2O</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> </div></div>

According to the owner the transmission in the pic of the ebay auction is the trans that was out for re-build when Jerry came to look at the car in '09. The VIN down by the oil filter is not a re-stamp - seems clear to me it's the matching numbers block, even if the pad itself is a re-stamp...and Jerry has verified that VIN as a Z28 sooooo... </div></div>

It sounds like a &quot;story&quot; to me. Jerry's write up says restamped transmission. Why would there be two transmissions, one restamped with an M20 code and one &quot;original&quot; with an M22 stamping, for this vehicle in question? I've never even heard of that scenario unless the original was reunited with the car at some point from the CRG database. Don't get me wrong, it would be a killer X33 Z28 once restored, but there are a lot of stories attached.

[MosportGreen66]

There are enough original motor '69 Z28s out there to pass on a known restamp. Not like we're talking about a ZL1, L88 or COPO car here...

[Stefano]

I thinks it's a fair deal at the price point your talking, if its a solid car with mostly correct and original parts. Lots of conflicting info presented. Like the floor pans ect and JM stating/inferring that the engine and trans are NOT original and/or restamps.

A good, not too rusty NOM Z28 project will bring in the mid teens.

[Salvatore]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MosportGreen66</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are enough original motor '69 Z28s out there to pass on a known restamp. Not like we're talking about a ZL1, L88 or COPO car here... </div></div>Correct! Your learning!

[x77-69z28]

I'm not too fond of the vin stamp on the block either! Seems like the numbers are too spread out. Not at all like the m-22 stamp. I remember this car and the lawsuit. Dragged on for years. I don't know if mr Guinn would be a good person to talk to about the originality of the car. And it needs a color change which would be a lot of time, effort and money IMHO

[Tracker1]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: x77-69z28</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not too fond of the vin stamp on the block either! Seems like the numbers are too spread out. Not at all like the m-22 stamp. I remember this car and the lawsuit. Dragged on for years. I don't know if mr Guinn would be a good person to talk to about the originality of the car. And it needs a color change which would be a lot of time, effort and money IMHO </div></div>

I like it BECAUSE it is already black with black houndstooth - I am a sucker for that color combo. The other thing is I could be driving this thing next summer for a total investment of about 30-35K if the parts inventory he has given me on the phone is right. When's the last time you saw a shiny, sorted driver Z with dyno-ed 302 pushing 400 horsepower for that kind of money? I am looking at it as a pound-able, lean-up-against-it-driver, not an investment. But that block damage is a deal-breaker i think.

I don't see it as a rust-free project, more like a couple weekends worth of jig-saw puzzling to get it back together <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

You guys rock, thanks. keep opinions coming...i got about an hour

[Salvatore]

why does the block bother you so much? Fix it.

[Fast67VelleN2O]

Out of all the places for a block to be damaged, the dowl pin hole is probably the best place IMO. Easy fix, and won't be seen.

[firstgenaddict]

The owner was interested in the Black RS/Z survivor we had down here, William talked to him extensively and I had the paperwork from the lawsuit for a while as he had asked our opinion... two sides to every story and a lot of he said she said. This is when I started realizing how many Black RS/Z's were not really Black RS/Z's and even the owners had no clue.
Counterfeits lower the price of the real deal when even a fraction of the demand is satisfied by the fakes, there is even a mathematical equation which lays it out very clearly.

[Tracker1]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: [email protected]</div><div class="ubbcode-body">why does the block bother you so much? Fix it. </div></div>

Not that easy Sammy. That means the car goes one way and the block goes another way - I am in Canada, remember, not really a glut of good cast-iron welders up here. And the logistical nightmare of shipping car then shipping motor, then shipping motor back up to car after it is done. And can that kind of weld be done right without being done from both sides? i.e, pull the dyno-ed, assembled motor all apart again....Oy! And have already been turned down by two shippers today who say they won't touch a car with no front wheels with its subframe sitting on a dolly. Just too much hassle all around. Pass.

It seems there are no good sorted-out driver '69 Z28s out there in the 35-40K range. None. (Unless you like green...inside and out) <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/thumbsdown.gif

[John Brown]

I'd ask a few farmers who does cast iron welding. You might be surprised how common it is.

[Salvatore]

I am sure there are some great welders in Canada. They are more industrious than us. I don't see why the motor would have to come apart to do that particular job and about the dyno stuff.........what does that really mean?

[SuperNovaSS]

Does that area even have to be fixed? Seems like a small issue to me.


Jason

[Billohio]

Here is a farmer view on the welding! There are shops that could do it. We had a big cast piece brake on a plater and the place we used years ago, brazed it. heated it up in an oven and did it. My cousin has a speed shop where he does alot of blower motors. He welds cast and aluminum there pretty regular. If the area holding the dowel is compromised, it would come out, be welded, the hole rebored and dowel put back in. We dont do any cast welding of our own. We really try not to have to weld at all, means someone broke something! I think the estimate on what that car is worth done is way off. My car is numbers matching except for the headers and a carb that is 2 months late for the build and when its restored, I would be tickled with 60k. I think with the color wrong, and all of the questions on the drivetrain, it could easily be worth 2/3 what the guys says. It would be tough to sell for alot.

It does hold the dowel which in turn helps hold the bellhousing. If it were mine I would want it fixed also. I think Tracker is correct in thinking the engine would have to come apart as the block would have to be uniformly pre-heated before welding. If I remember correctly we used to heat into the 225 F range.

[fastco]

if your are still into this car try UWP (united welding process) or google engine block welding in toronto, I don't where in Canada you are.hope this helps

[Tracker1]

looks like he sold it for 22-23K he says

yes, 65K value is optimistic to say the least, I agree

[Salvatore]

$65,000, Don't hold your breath. You would be way better off buying Charlie's 68 green RS. That is a nice car Des.

[Tracker1]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: [email protected]</div><div class="ubbcode-body">$65,000, Don't hold your breath. You would be way better off buying Charlie's 68 green RS. That is a nice car Des. </div></div>

Beautiful car. I am just looking for something with some oomph to scare myself with <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

and that Z is back up again...said he sold it. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif

[Mr70]

With a 24K BIN.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=221165373785#ht_1670wt _1165

[Salvatore]

believe me, not many fairly stock Z/s with stock gearing would scare anybody! 3.73 gears and an M22 trans is a yawner to me.

[Plowman]

How are 4:88's Sam.

[67 Nova Boy]

That's some nice gears Plowman! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/3gears.gif

Dave
67 Nova Boy

[Billohio]

My Z has 4.88s and the 140 cam. Does make it more interesting. Worst part is 4 grand at 55 mph down the road.

[budnate]

great car if a guy can do his own work, I would be all over it if it was closer.

[WILMASBOYL78]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: [email protected]</div><div class="ubbcode-body">believe me, not many fairly stock Z/s with stock gearing would scare anybody! 3.73 gears and an M22 trans is a yawner to me. </div></div>

That's why they made big blocks <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

[Verne_Frantz]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WILMASBOYL78</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: [email protected]</div><div class="ubbcode-body">believe me, not many fairly stock Z/s with stock gearing would scare anybody! 3.73 gears and an M22 trans is a yawner to me. </div></div>

That's why they made big blocks <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif </div></div>

Couldn't agree more! Z-28s remind me of the '63 Chrysler Turbine car. IF you want to get anywhere, use that 45,000rpm its designed for. Otherwise, it's a slug.
Torque rules <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/flag.gif

Verne <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/scholar.gif

[Salvatore]

I like that Verne. Woke TV Tommy up also with his plug for BB's.

[x77-69z28]

Tracker, did you pull the trigger on this? I still see it on eBay.

[Kurt S]

And that partial VIN by the oil filter looks like no original I've ever seen.

[Tracker1]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: x77-69z28</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tracker, did you pull the trigger on this? I still see it on eBay. </div></div>

No, too many headaches involved...block damage etc. Kurt, if you don't think it's a good stamping then it's not a good stamping, I guess. Too bad for whoever gets it.

[firstgenaddict]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tracker1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: x77-69z28</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tracker, did you pull the trigger on this? I still see it on eBay. </div></div>

No, too many headaches involved...block damage etc. Kurt, if you don't think it's a good stamping then it's not a good stamping, I guess. Too bad for whoever gets it. </div></div>

The 3's on the trans don't match the 3's on the block... Flat tops vs round tops

[Lynn]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Billohio</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My Z has 4.88s and the 140 cam. Does make it more interesting. Worst part is 4 grand at 55 mph down the road. </div></div>

Might want to check your tack or speedo calibration.

IIRC (big if these days) my old 4.10 Z did 3600 at 70. Some quick cipherin tells me you sould be around 3400 at 55, 4300 at 70.

Could be off. Sorry to hijack the thread, but doesn't appear anyone is going to go after this ebay car anyway.

[njsteve]

Remember, it also depends on the tires, the lower the profile, the higher the revs.

[Lynn]

Absolutely.

[x77-69z28]

Damn, I thought something was happening with the eBay car! I still think that is a cool project.

[Billohio]

I got the speed off the local radar sign the patrol has up. If i remember right, the speedometer said around 70 but the sign said 55 and it didn't feel like 70. Sounds like 4k! Will have to do some checking. I just looked at Richmond gears site and it doesn't show the rpms being that high unless the gears are in the 5s. I didn't put them in but checked and thought they were 4.88s.