67 427 Chevelle

[69hurstSC]

Hey fellow members. Over the weekend I was talking with a friend who was reminiscing about a buddies old Chevelle. He was talking about 1968 and about his deployment to Vietnam. Before he was deployed he befriended someone who had just picked up a 67 Chevelle with a 427. These two remained friends throughout the years and just a couple weeks ago they had talked over the phone and were discussing the Chevelle. The guy still has it and swears up and down that the car was owned by a Chevrolet executive (I guess someone high up in the food chain) and this individual was able to get the Corvette motor installed VERY early. Like perhaps in the factory. Before I look into this any further knowing that 427's couldn't be had in Chevelle's until 69, was there any loopholes where someone from GM could have something done like this? If Estes could get a Z28 Camaro vert could someone else could have had something done too?

[PxTx]

Anything is possible, but without paperwork these stories are just that.

[markinnaples]

Over the years, I have seen a few ads for 427 '67 Chevelles that stated they were factory (or dealer?) installed engines, and I've often wondered if that was correct.

I'd love to see some pics and hear the rest of the story.

[anthony_b]

...I owned an original '67 L-78 Chevelle from '78-'84 and throughout those years I also had seen various ads for "original 427 '67 Chevelles". From what I recall, I thought I had read in various publications(Hemming's, Super Chevy?)that up to 50 1967 427 SS Chevelles were built. This was also 25+ yrs ago. There was that one book I had yrs ago by Terry Boyce "Chevrolet Super Sports;1961-1976". Not sure if anything is mentioned in that, but I remember that book was before 612 L-78 '67s were known to have been produced and the book said "Possibly 100 '67 L-78 Chevelles were built for public sale".
http://www.corvetteforum.net/c3/anthony_b/1967chevelle.jpg

[ssl78396]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 69hurstSC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey fellow members. If Estes could get a Z28 Camaro vert could someone else could have had something done too? </div></div>

Absolutely an executive could order such a combination. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/cool.gif

[sYc]

Estes did not order the Z vert,, it was a one off built to get him to sign off on the project.

[William]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sYc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Estes did not order the Z vert,, it was a one off built to get him to sign off on the project. </div></div>

What &quot;project&quot; would that be?

[sYc]

Z-28..to help Chevy compete on the Trams Am circuit.

1968 Z-28 convertible (http://1968convertiblecamaro.com/rarest_camaro.htm)

[William]

I realize that is widely believed but that car had nothing to do with any of it. The car was built July 1968. JL-8, crossram, headers, K66 ignition were all done long before that and featured in an early 1968 Hot Rod magazine. It was displayed at some races with those parts; that's about it.

[sYc]

Whatever... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif

Your opinion goes against what Jim Mattison, who was involved in the build of many rare cars back in the day, through his position within the Central Office (COPO), has stated on numerous occasions.

[al8apex]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sYc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Estes did not order the Z vert,, it was a one off built to get him to sign off on the project. </div></div>

the Z28's were first built in 1967, so a 68 convertible being built to &quot;sign off&quot; on the Z28 &quot;project&quot; is after the fact ... in fact a flexi-flyer that a f-body convertible is/was is counter productive for &quot;racing&quot; (handling) which was what the Z28 was intended for, the Trans Am racing series ... just saying

back to original thread ... a neighbor of ours (2 houses down, Skip Weinrauch) bought a 66 or 67 Chevelle SS from &quot;the GM proving Grounds (Milford, Michigan)&quot; through a GM &quot;executive&quot; and street raced it. I was told it had a &quot;special&quot; engine and was not beaten in the area ... he must have taken someone's $$$ and pissed them off as within a week of his buying it it was stolen and burned to the ground ... it was a 4 speed black vinyl roof car, but that is all I can remember about it (copper or maroon color IIRC) ... have no idea of whether it was a 427 car or an L78 ...

[sYc]

They were not trying to get a convertible approved, just parts. It was built as a vert because that is what Estes preferred.

[William]

The Estes '68 Z/28 convertible was built July 1968 virtually at the end of '68 production.

Many of the parts Estes is alleged to have &quot;approved&quot; as a result were featured in the May 1968 Hot Rod magazine in an article titled &quot;Just For Fun: 68 1/2 Chevys&quot;. In addition Car &amp; Driver tested a cross-ram/JL8 '68 Z/28 in the July '68 issue. Magazine lead times are about 3 months so these events took place around March 1968, 4 months before the Z/28 convertible was built.

The K66 TI ignition had been a regular production option for years at that point; headers were optional on the '67 Z/28. Wayne's Guinn's Book &quot;Camaro Untold Secrets&quot; has all the info. Chevy had a JL8 engineering car by October '67; some cross-ram docs are dated August '67.

I cannot believe the BS surrounding this car.

[sYc]

So you are saying Mattison, the go to guy within our hobby regarding special built (COPO) cars is spreading BS? Wow...

[William]

YOU are the guy that brought his name into this. I never quoted anyone; no idea where the story came from. A lot of people believe it; could not possibly be true. That's what makes it BS.

Nice try Tom.

Instead of dragging a name into this in an attempt to antagonize, why don't you simply explain how a car built July '68 could have had anything to do with parts that were available months prior? Explain the May '68 Hot Rod photo feature. Explain the engineering documents with '67 dates in Guinn's book.

I guess you aren't comfortable with the facts.

[Ryan1969Chevelle]

&quot;Oh no you didn't&quot;

Play nice, you both obviously have much knowledge and interest, share and enjoy this wonderful website.

Ryan

[sYc]

I will be the first to admit that I am no expert, far from it, when it comes to discussing rare muscle cars, but, will go to bat for the ones who do have first hand knowledge, such as Mr. Mattison, who are willing to share their knowledge with us. Unfortunately, because of folks such as William, who basically said Jim was full of crap, many of these folks decide it is simply not worth their time to get involved.. Several, who once posted on this site, because of such key board no it alls, no longer do so, a loss for all of us. I for one hope Jim continues to share his vast knowledge of COPO cars, not only on this site, but in person, at such events as MCACN.


BTW, here is a thread on another site where you challenge both Jim Mattison and Scott Settlemire (another GM exec).

Estes Z-28 (http://www.camaros.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-24324.html)

[PxTx]

Seems like a reasonable question/challenge from the data presented.

[Charley Lillard]

I think the production facts speak for themselves. Since this thread is getting ugly I am locking it. Take the ugliness elsewhere if you can't be civil.