BX axle code?

[ss427copo]

After 29 years, I finally striped the rear for a fresh coat black paint. A BX axle code? (Factory 4:88's) Was this a special order? BWAG, Bob Wagner ordered the car in Oct of 68 over lunch in his dealership.

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r59/nhra1060sc/image-10_zpsbd324555.jpg

[Kurt S]

May axle in a Dec car?
I'd say it looks like the axle came from a 68 Camaro.

[SuperNovaSS]

Kurt,

You no doubt know your stuff but how many 4.88 posi rears were made? I can't imagine them flying off the shelf. I don't think this is a cookie cutter situation. There is already early photos showing this was an L89 car. If there is any situation I would think may have an unordinary date spread, a 4.88 geared rear would be at the top of the list. Am I off base?


Jason

[P.J.]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ss427copo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After 29 years, I finally striped the rear for a fresh coat black paint. A BX axle code? (Factory 4:88's) Was this a special order? BWAG, Bob Wagner ordered the car in Oct of 68 over lunch in his dealership.

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r59/nhra1060sc/image-10_zpsbd324555.jpg </div></div>

Hey Jeff
my 68 Camaro was factory ordered with 488 rear end. Is this rear end in your car, and was it orig to your car??

LIke to sell it???
PJ

[L78M22Rag]

Interesting discussion. My 1968 elkie SS (factory L78/M22) has a KO coded rearend (4:88 posi) that is dated just prior to the car's build date. The rear was not on the Canadian docs (only shows G80 - posi), so do you figure that rear was installed by the dealer or was it just coincidence that someone swapped the rear for a correct dated 4:88 at some point?
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg155/helmuteckert/68L78Caminobuildsheet_zps803c16d5.jpg

[mockingbird812]

Very interesting. Nice score Jeff (altho a decades old score) <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif Would the 4.56 &amp; 4.88 gears get the hardened pinions like the COPO 4.10 rear ends? I would hope so! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/shocked.gif

[ss427copo]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mockingbird812</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Very interesting. Nice score Jeff (altho a decades old score) <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif Would the 4.56 &amp; 4.88 gears get the hardened pinions like the COPO 4.10 rear ends? I would hope so! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/shocked.gif </div></div>

Well, the last photo tells you it wasn't High Impact enough for the 427! eh-eh-eh. I guess when you have a 427 with an L88 personality, sumpin' was going to let go. I replaced the R&amp;P 10 years ago with the same.

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r59/nhra1060sc/image-10_zps55d046ad.jpg

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r59/nhra1060sc/image-10_zps1182df52.jpg

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r59/nhra1060sc/image-10_zpsacd00f33.jpg

[COPO]

I don't think the date spread would be too unusual for an uncommon rear end such as a 4.88. I recall the 67 BM Chevelle that I owned had an 11-18-66 build date for the rear and the car had an 06B of 1967 build date, so that would be a 7 month spread (4.56 with metallic drum brakes) and I am 100% certain it was original to the car as documented on the POP and plus other physical evidence.

[ss427copo]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COPO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't think the date spread would be too unusual for an uncommon rear end such as a 4.88. I recall the 67 BM Chevelle that I owned had an 11-18-66 build date for the rear and the car had an 06B of 1967 build date, so that would be a 7 month spread (4.56 with metallic drum brakes) and I am 100% certain it was original to the car as documented on the POP and plus other physical evidence. </div></div>

Two owners to date...Bob ordered it this way in '68. I'm just the caretaker since 74. It has never been apart........except for me busting the ring gear one late Saturday night up shifting into 2nd at 7400. (it was late and the neighbor was pissing me off about me adjusting the valves and carb with the headers
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r59/nhra1060sc/th_100_4048.jpg (http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r59/nhra1060sc/100_4048.mp4)

[70 copo]

What a great car-cannot wait to see it in person <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/burnout.gif ..

[bwag]

Looks like I'm showing up late to the party . Spring break and away from the computer .I should be able to clear up the rear end mystery .Lets go back to the summer of 69,we were having trouble getting the car to launch consistently,so we were at Milan dragway on a Saturday trying different methods. Well after the third launch neutral starting I shattered the origional rear end,it had a 4.56 gear from the factory,the ring and pinion ,left axle and housing were destroyed on the launch.We winched the car back on the hauler and went back to the shop. Seeing that only the right axle was salvageable we pulled the assembly out. The parts dept had a warranty axle assembly with a 4.88 posi laying on the floor . We had it installed in the car and back at the strip on Sunday morning with No Neutral Start written on the dash!So the rear end in the car is not the origional .

[P.J.]

Hey Bob
I am sure you would of seen my 68 black on black converted to a 427
racing at the track.the orig owner Barry of the camaro often raced at Milan
every weekend???????????
Peter

[P.J.]

\


Did you get GM to pay for it???
PJ

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bwag</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks like I'm showing up late to the party . Spring break and away from the computer .I should be able to clear up the rear end mystery .Lets go back to the summer of 69,we were having trouble getting the car to launch consistently,so we were at Milan dragway on a Saturday trying different methods. Well after the third launch neutral starting I shattered the origional rear end,it had a 4.56 gear from the factory,the ring and pinion ,left axle and housing were destroyed on the launch.We winched the car back on the hauler and went back to the shop. Seeing that only the right axle was salvageable we pulled the assembly out. The parts dept had a warranty axle assembly with a 4.88 posi laying on the floor . We had it installed in the car and back at the strip on Sunday morning with No Neutral Start written on the dash!So the rear end in the car is not the origional . </div></div>

[bwag]

Its funny that you ask, but yes most of the racing damage was repaired under warranty claims .My friend Tom C. was the Corvette and Hiper specialist and when work was slow the race fleet was in one of his stalls.We drove the service manager crazy,he was not a race fan and didnt have any sense of humor .We were talking this morning about some of the stuff we pushed thru on a claim ticket.

[ss427copo]

Isn't it great I can go right to the source for validation and accuracy? Thanks Bob!

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r59/nhra1060sc/image-10_zps03f11fcf.jpg

[bwag]

Jeff , Did you notice the date code on your broken pinion gear June 69 ? We had 4.56,4.88,5.13 and 5.38 gears in and out of the car over the years . The 4.88s seemed to be the best combo overall.Some of the gearsets we used were the hi impact gears.Your car would have been a COPO order to get the 4.56 gears from the fsctory....Bob

[MosportGreen66]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bwag</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your car would have been a COPO order to get the 4.56 gears from the fsctory....Bob </div></div>

A 4.56 posi would have been an RPO order. What makes you think it's anything COPO?

[bwag]

The 4.56 and 4.88 gears were ordered with RPO 84 linked to COPO 9511

[MosportGreen66]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bwag</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 4.56 and 4.88 gears were ordered with RPO 84 linked to COPO 9511 </div></div>

So if I ordered any '69 Camaro with a 4.56 or 4.88 geared diff I would have to order a COPO option?

[Ryan1969Chevelle]

Is that also true for a 1969 Chevelle? Was there a special Copo for 4:56 gears?

Ryan

[L78M22Rag]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bwag</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks like I'm showing up late to the party . Spring break and away from the computer .I should be able to clear up the rear end mystery .Lets go back to the summer of 69,we were having trouble getting the car to launch consistently,so we were at Milan dragway on a Saturday trying different methods. Well after the third launch neutral starting I shattered the origional rear end,it had a 4.56 gear from the factory,the ring and pinion ,left axle and housing were destroyed on the launch.We winched the car back on the hauler and went back to the shop. Seeing that only the right axle was salvageable we pulled the assembly out. The parts dept had a warranty axle assembly with a 4.88 posi laying on the floor . We had it installed in the car and back at the strip on Sunday morning with No Neutral Start written on the dash!So the rear end in the car is not the origional . </div></div>

I guess that probably answers my question too. Thanks, and sorry for chiming in on your thread.

[Ryan1969Chevelle]

Any L78 Chime is a good Chime.

Ryan

[L72copocamaro]

My 05C 4:88 had a Feb date code.

[Kurt S]

Bob,
Thanks for clearing this up.

Yes, to get a 4.56 or 4.88 in a Camaro, it was a COPO order.

Comparing it to other models / years isn't really a valid comparison since the ordering method changed. The data on other 69's says this axle date was *way* off - I've always been surprised by how close the dates are on some unusual components in 69.

[MosportGreen66]

Thanks for explaining the rear end situation Gents

Always impressed with the knowledge around here!

[mockingbird812]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mockingbird812</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Very interesting. Nice score Jeff (altho a decades old score) <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">Would the 4.56 &amp; 4.88 gears get the hardened pinions like the COPO 4.10 rear ends? I would hope so! </span></span><<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/shocked.gif </div></div>


Sooooooo.......... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/whistle.gif ......... anyone know if the R&amp;P were hardened in a COPO ordered '69 4.56 or 4.88 axle ratio like the 4.10 gears were in a 9561 optioned Camaro?

[ss427copo]

Yup.....they sure were. Stamped high impact.

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r59/nhra1060sc/image-10_zps55d046ad.jpg

Of course, not High Impact enough for Ol Yeller's 7400, 1st to 2nd upshiftsthough! LOLOLOL


http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r59/nhra1060sc/image-10_zpsacd00f33.jpg

[ss427copo]

Thanks Bob for clearing up the BX question.
It is nice to be able to say, &quot;hmmmm, I wonder about this, let me check with the guy who ordered the car&quot;

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r59/nhra1060sc/image-10_zps6fe8401c.jpg

[Kurt S]

I don't believe the factory gears were stamped high impact. Just the ordering changed, not the gears.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ss427copo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yup.....they sure were. Stamped high impact. </div></div>
Those don't appear to be the original gears. I see a date on the ring gear of 3 70.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bwag</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jeff , Did you notice the date code on your broken pinion gear June 69 ? We had 4.56,4.88,5.13 and 5.38 gears in and out of the car over the years. The 4.88s seemed to be the best combo overall.Some of the gearsets we used were the hi impact gears. Bob </div></div>
I don't see a June date - I think that's the part #. Just a date on the ring gear of 3 70 (7 is hard to see) and maybe the same date on the pinion, but I can only see the month code (3).

[mockingbird812]

So Kurt, are you saying that a 9561 ordered '69 Camaro would get the hardened ring and pinion for the 4.10, but not a 4.56 or 4.88? Are 4.10 R&amp;Ps ordered via the COPO 9561 stamped &quot;high impact&quot;?

[Kurt S]

Yes, BE axle components were unique in their heat treatment.

I've only seen high impact on service parts.

[Fast67VelleN2O]

I believe there is a known COPO 4.56 axle for a 1969 Camaro that has heat treated 4.56 gears and a COPO posi unit.

[Kurt S]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fast67VelleN2O</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I believe there is a known COPO 4.56 axle for a 1969 Camaro that has heat treated 4.56 gears and a COPO posi unit. </div></div>
And was it in a COPO 427 car?

Its always been my understanding that in 69 a 4;56 or 4;88 could have been either dealer installed or COPO ordered.If the axle tubes are stamped BWor QG, or for the 4;88 gears BX or QH, that is a definate indication they were COPO ordered.

[Fast67VelleN2O]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kurt S</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fast67VelleN2O</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I believe there is a known COPO 4.56 axle for a 1969 Camaro that has heat treated 4.56 gears and a COPO posi unit. </div></div>
And was it in a COPO 427 car? </div></div>

I believe it was. It was talked about on here in a previous thread about COPO axles.

[Kurt S]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fast67VelleN2O</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kurt S</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fast67VelleN2O</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I believe there is a known COPO 4.56 axle for a 1969 Camaro that has heat treated 4.56 gears and a COPO posi unit. </div></div>
And was it in a COPO 427 car? </div></div>

I believe it was. It was talked about on here in a previous thread about COPO axles. </div></div>

Sounds right - 427 cars would get different heattreat - be it the 4.10 that most got or the 4.56 that a very few got.
A 4.56 gear in a 69 Z would be normal gears.

[firstgenaddict]

Yes and the car has legit paperwork. It is a white 427 COPO car I saw it at Super Chevy Atlanta 10 years ago or so.

[Kurt S]

There's one other one out there too.

[DW31S]

I'm happy to hear that the rear was swapped at the dealer and the dealer ended up eating it. I'm a loooooooooong time GM dealer employee, and I tell people stuff like this happened and they tell me I am Full of S##T!!! I try to tell them it happened, I know, because I was there.
I know NOTHING about the car in this thread, but I had to throw in my 2cents about the dealership story! HA!!!

[bigsixman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kurt S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There's one other one out there too. </div></div>

I believe that there was a burnished brown original COPO 4.56 axle car built.















































.

[P.J.]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kurt S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There's one other one out there too. </div></div>
my 1968 camaro ss was factory ordered with 488s.
PJ

[P.J.]

I cant believe how much the GM 488 gears and carrier cost today
2800 dollars!!!!!!!!!
PJ

[luv2sixty9]

I have a 67 Z28 with factory 488 gears also.

[JRSully]

The 69 L78 Nova that I sold had a BW (4:56) coded rear in it, looked to be dead original to the car, never out (posi unit and gears replaced)and was date coded perfectly to the car (casting date on rear and assembly date stamp)Was it originally ordered that way.? who knows, original owner's son said his father ordered it that way, gears ended up being too hairy for the street and changed the guts out to 3:73, all of those components were dated late 70 as I recall, have pics somewhere if anybody interested

[P.J.]

I installed an original set of GM 488 gears in the 68 Camaro.

bought them from a member here for 450 about 8 years ago.

My rear end tubes were changed by the orig owner back in the day so the BX Code
that was stamped on there is gone.

I tried to find one to replace the rear end but they are so rare that its impossible to find one.
Also, not many people are looking for one either, as the 488 are a bit scary on the road.
How ever I love them and that's the way my car came with, <span style="font-weight: bold">(KILLER)</span>
PJ <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/3gears.gif




<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: P.J.</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kurt S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There's one other one out there too. </div></div>
my 1968 camaro ss was factory ordered with 488s.
PJ </div></div>

[P.J.]

My factory ordered 68 Camaro GM paperwork says the same thing. Only my orig bill of sale lists the
488 gear ratio
PJ


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: L78M22Rag</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting discussion. My 1968 elkie SS (factory L78/M22) has a KO coded rearend (4:88 posi) that is dated just prior to the car's build date. The rear was not on the Canadian docs (only shows G80 - posi), so do you figure that rear was installed by the dealer or was it just coincidence that someone swapped the rear for a correct dated 4:88 at some point?
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg155/helmuteckert/68L78Caminobuildsheet_zps803c16d5.jpg </div></div>

[rts]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kurt S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bob,
Thanks for clearing this up.

Yes, to get a 4.56 or 4.88 in a Camaro, it was a COPO order.

Comparing it to other models / years isn't really a valid comparison since the ordering method changed. The data on other 69's says this axle date was *way* off - I've always been surprised by how close the dates are on some unusual components in 69.</div></div>

Is this true for a 1968 ordered car??? For a 4.56/4.88 rear axle it had to be a COPO order???
Or only a 1969 ordered car??

Thanks in advance

[P.J.]

yes those pics would be interesting
Please post them
PJ


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRSully</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 69 L78 Nova that I sold had a BW (4:56) coded rear in it, looked to be dead original to the car, never out (posi unit and gears replaced)and was date coded perfectly to the car (casting date on rear and assembly date stamp)Was it originally ordered that way.? who knows, original owner's son said his father ordered it that way, gears ended up being too hairy for the street and changed the guts out to 3:73, all of those components were dated late 70 as I recall, have pics somewhere if anybody interested </div></div>

[ZAPPER68]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: L78M22Rag</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting discussion. My 1968 elkie SS (factory L78/M22) has a KO coded rearend (4:88 posi) that is dated just prior to the car's build date. The rear was not on the Canadian docs (only shows G80 - posi), so do you figure that rear was installed by the dealer or was it just coincidence that someone swapped the rear for a correct dated 4:88 at some point?
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg155/helmuteckert/68L78Caminobuildsheet_zps803c16d5.jpg </div></div>

Interesting the document indicates Ochs Motor Products as the customer. I think they were the GM dealer in either Kindersly or perhaps Humbolt SK?

I spoke to my buddy Glenn Hoff a few minutes ago and he was a salesman for Sherwood Chev Olds in Saskatoon back in that era. Glenn said he thought the 68 mentioned above was bought by Roy Andreas who farmed in the Rosetown/Kindersly area. Glenn drove a 70 LS6 4 speed elkie as one of his many demo cars...

If the 68 elkie was owned by Roy Andreas, email me and I'll put you in touch with Glenn.

[DW31S]

I don't find it too odd for that rear and the car to have such a far spread in dates. There couldn't have been a great demand for '88s.....my bet is the supply was greater than that demand. I'm curios about some of the other components that make up the car. What intake was originally used? Is it still there? What fuel delivery system? Traction bars?

[JRSully]

Here are the pics from the 69 L78 Nova rear, The trim tag was 04C, cast date on the center section of the rear was 04119 and assembly date on the BW rear was 0418. Would have to be an incredible coincidence for all those dates to be within the time frame. Original 272 engine block had a cast date of D 8 9 and assembly date/stamp of T0411JH http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/02/full-800-39218-69_nova_rear_stamp.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/02/full-800-39219-69_nova_stamp_2.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/02/full-800-39220-69_nova_stamp_3.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/02/full-800-39221-69_nova_stamp_4.jpg

[PeteLeathersac]

As noted in past threads, for 1969 only it took Copo 9511 to get 4:56 &amp; 4:88 factory rear w/ any '69 Chevrolet.
Other years and dealer installs are different things but it sure looks like Sulley's '69 was a real L78 Copo Nova!
<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif
~ Pete

[JRSully]

Sold out of a little dealership in Colo Springs. Wish the rear still had all the original guts in it, that would have helped the cause further. Never know if the guy stamping rear tubes that day threw a &quot;w&quot; in the stamping gang holder instead of a T or U.?