Toronto Auction

[quik9r]

http://www.ccpauctions.com/lot-details.php?RefNum=r086&EventID=87

[XXXGoldL34M20]

I am going today with a friend that will try and sell his car.
Looking forward to seeing that COPO Camaro in person.
Lot of guys are going to have some work ahead as it is raining all day for move in. Just the lucky guys with enclosed trailers have little to do.

Nice Belair <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

[Tracker1]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XXXBlackLs6M22</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am going today with a friend that will try and sell his car.
Looking forward to seeing that COPO Camaro in person.
Lot of guys are going to have some work ahead as it is raining all day for move in. Just the lucky guys with enclosed trailers have little to do.

Nice Belair <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif </div></div>

could you please have a look at SP124 FOR ME? 71 trans am....crappy details on the restoration of a nice car. curious if it sells.

[XXXGoldL34M20]

Not going today or tomorrow or else I would of.

[Tracker1]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XXXBlackLs6M22</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not going today or tomorrow or else I would of. </div></div>

No problem. Just as well. If someone paid &quot;75,000 for the nut and bolt rotisserie restoration&quot; on the car they got severely hosed.

http://www.collectorcarproductions.com/lot-details.php?RefNum=r128&amp;EventID=87

note duct-taped starter and gas lines bent by a five-year-old

[XXXGoldL34M20]

Believe me that car will not get $75k,
We will see when they post the results on line next week.
My guess is the bidding will hit $40 at max.
We will see

[CDNL-78]

Danny,

Did you have a look at the COPO? Tells us your thoughts.

[XXXGoldL34M20]

The 69 Camaro COPO is an awesome clean car.
Great color combo and great detail.
Most likely going across the block as I speak with no Reserve.
I am more of a 70 Chevelle guy that I can spot incorrect items on but this Camaro is a true treasure for a COPO collector and I really did not spot any flaws to speak of.
Here is the write up

[ZiggyL78]

I'm no expert but that ZL1 was a nice car.It went for 162K to a phone bidder.In the end after the bids petered out from the audience it seemed to get down to 2 phone bidders.The auctioneer almost turned his back on the audience and was definitely focusing on the 2 girls on the phone.

[1969L78Nova]

Got stuck at $75K for a long time.....The guys behind the auction desk were sweating till the phone bidders got involved. was this #48 1/2 or #48 for a real good deal?

[XXXGoldL34M20]

I think what kept that COPO from getting more money is that it had a repro Cowl Tag which is clearly stated in the Auction book.
To me that is a red flag <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/mad.gif

[quik9r]

enough with the 48 1/2 or 48 nonsense.

Quik9r

[Kurt S]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XXXBlackLs6M22</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think what kept that COPO from getting more money is that it had a repro Cowl Tag which is clearly stated in the Auction book.
To me that is a red flag <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/mad.gif </div></div>
That's not the red flag.
The red flag is the history of the car and the problem with the VINs. Sold in Canada, not the US, may limit your recourse too.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/508967/5/ZL1_48_coming_to_Barrett_Jacks

[XXXGoldL34M20]

Holy cow,
That car has made its rounds in many Auctions.
Great thread of Info on this COPO <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif
How many different owners has this car had?

[Charley Lillard]

Can we stop calling it a COPO ?

Excellent call Charlie.

[iluv69s]

Wow... a new world record....lowest price paid for a restored ZL-1 in many years...

..or highest price paid for a clone ever !!!

..a few thoughts here.. the guy with the 5 registered ZL-1s in Canada should build some cars ..he could make a nice profit !!...just kidding...

But seriously, unfortunately, this car may end up on some dealer's showroom some day and get sold to another buyer ..(possibly overseas) for even more money.

It would be great if the buyer showed up here!! I really hope it is real !! That would be really awesome for the new owner !!!

It is a beautiful color and car !!!

[MEL]

Absolutely beautiful COPO Camaro,FANTASTIC restoration by owner,, pretty good money, someone got a bargin considering all the negative press this COPO got from a bunch of jealous members on this site. I hope we see this car again and the price is even higher LOL.

[Tracker1]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MEL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Absolutely beautiful COPO Camaro,FANTASTIC restoration by owner,, pretty good money, someone got a bargin considering all the negative press this COPO got from a bunch of jealous members on this site. I hope we see this car again and the price is even higher LOL. </div></div>

Got a horse in this race do ya?

[MEL]

No horse....and no $$$$$ LOL, but I know a great COPO Camaro when I see it, very nice car, hats off to owner and his restoration efforts!

[twertsy]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tracker1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MEL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Absolutely beautiful COPO Camaro,FANTASTIC restoration by owner,, pretty good money, someone got a bargin considering all the negative press this COPO got from a bunch of jealous members on this site. I hope we see this car again and the price is even higher LOL. </div></div>

Got a horse in this race do ya? </div></div>

Can certainly see the great white north from 14303......

[BJCHEV396]

Just wondering what a ZL1 clone restored to this Camaro's standards would be worth if it was advertised as a recreation?

[MEL]

[quote=BJCHEV396]Just wondering what a ZL1 clone restored to this Camaro's standards would be worth if it was advertised as a recreation? To answer your query about value I located my latest issue of Likehelle Collector Car Value Guide and a true original COPO in #1 condition would be worth around $500K, a clone would be around $135K and a recreation around $90K. This is assuming the clone and recreation COPO's would have a very strong oral history and lots of NON digital photos.

[1969L78Nova]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MEL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=BJCHEV396]Just wondering what a ZL1 clone restored to this Camaro's standards would be worth if it was advertised as a recreation? To answer your query about value I located my latest issue of Likehelle Collector Car Value Guide and a true original COPO in #1 condition would be worth around $500K, a clone would be around $135K and a recreation around $90K. This is assuming the clone and recreation COPO's would have a very strong oral history and lots of NON digital photos. </div></div>

with buyers premium and taxes the buyer paid over $200K CDN for this Camaro.

[iluv69s]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MEL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=BJCHEV396] a clone would be around $135K and a recreation around $90K. </div></div>

what's the difference?

[iluv69s]

i was reading a while ago about the old race cars, etc..maybe it's the vette guys

(just assuming if this car were not the real deal)would this be considered an 'air car' ??

can anyone explain the differences on how they classify the cars??..and what category this car falls in...

[ZiggyL78]

I'm not sure.I wonder what a tribute car is worth;)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: iluv69s</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MEL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=BJCHEV396] a clone would be around $135K and a recreation around $90K. </div></div>

what's the difference? </div></div>

[bergy]

Mel - can you stop calling this car a COPO?
An &quot;air car&quot; is just what the name implies - it is a car that appeared out of thin air. It is a term that is commonly used in the AC Cobra community where cars have sometimes &quot;appeared&quot; with no real ownership history. Cars with ownership history are called &quot;continuous history cars&quot; (CHC). It is uncommon, but not rare, to have two AC Cobras with the same VIN (due to legitimate reasons like previous damage history - damaged frame migrated to one car and the subsequently found damaged body went to another car - or even extreme cases of outright fraud). In such instances - the car with ownership history generally prevails. the other car is often an &quot;air car&quot;. The legitimacy rationale revolves around the intent of the owner at the time of damage &amp; rebuild - the car that survived with the titled owner being the continuous history car. Cars that just &quot;appear&quot; with no ownership history are &quot;air cars&quot; until their provenance has been determined.
There's probably a lot more that an attorney could add, but the message is clear - continuous ownership history is extremely important.

[quik9r]

There was a &quot;recreation ZL-1&quot; at toronto 540 aluminium block, eddy heads, car was complete do over with the look but aftemarket wheels etc., stalled at 52K no sale.

Quik9r

[427.060]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: quik9r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There was a &quot;recreation ZL-1&quot; at toronto 540 aluminium block, eddy heads, car was complete do over with the look but aftemarket wheels etc., stalled at 52K no sale.

Quik9r </div></div>

So there were 2 ZL-1 clones/recreations at the auction?
James

[quik9r]

Funny, take tour comedy show on the road. Don't quit your day job.

[Fast67VelleN2O]

Quik, just curious but was it your ZL1 that went through the auction? Was it someone's car that you personally know? Once again just curious since it seems like you've gone to bat on this car in a few threads. I, along with others, would really like to know some details on this one.

-Matt

[MEL]

There seems to be some confusion as to the value of a Tribute COPO,,,,,normally according to my value guide a TRIBUTE would be 20% more then a CLONE ,,,,thats assuming cars of equal condition. Hope this clears things up.

[lowmile]

&quot;according to my value guide a TRIBUTE would be 20% more then a CLONE&quot; to quote the great theologian Charlie Brown &quot;Good grief&quot; ........

[Tenney]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MEL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There seems to be some confusion as to the value of a Tribute COPO,,,,,normally according to my value guide a TRIBUTE would be 20% more then a CLONE ,,,,thats assuming cars of equal condition. Hope this clears things up. </div></div>

How much for a REPLICA?

[MEL]

YIKES Replica?????????my value guide doesn't list replica's,

[twertsy]

Can't spell REPLICA without AIR...............

[iluv69s]

clone?? recreation?? tribute car?? replica?? I'm confused...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MEL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">YIKES Replica?????????my value guide doesn't list replica's, </div></div> Take it at face value. Those value guides normally are better used as campfire starters.

[whitetop]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tracker1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XXXBlackLs6M22</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not going today or tomorrow or else I would of. </div></div>

No problem. Just as well. If someone paid &quot;75,000 for the nut and bolt rotisserie restoration&quot; on the car they got severely hosed.

http://www.collectorcarproductions.com/lot-details.php?RefNum=r128&amp;EventID=87

note duct-taped starter and gas lines bent by a five-year-old </div></div>

Car looks pretty good to me..that is not duct tape on the starter but heat shield wrap and the fuel lines look ok to me..easy fix if they are not concourse.

[resto4u]

I personally would not pass judgement on this car without looking at for myself with my own eyes.

[XXXGoldL34M20]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XXXBlackLs6M22</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Believe me that car will not get $75k,
We will see when they post the results on line next week.
My guess is the bidding will hit $40 at max.
We will see </div></div>

Not a bad guess, the 1971 Trans Am stalled at $42k with the reserve not met, just checked the results on line today.

[Lynn]

Back to the ZL-1

1. Has anyone EVER given and explanation for the original tag being removed?

2. Have yet to see a pic of the &quot;reproduction&quot; trim tag.

3. On the other thread, there was a statement re: a body shop owner finding date codes on panels that were &quot;much later&quot; than the build date. Did anyone looking at this car at the auction note any date codes on panels?

[PeteLeathersac]

Best may be go to the thread specific to the car claiming to be ZL1 #48 and post your questions there Lynn.
The bogus TT pics are on page # 10.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/545657/1
<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif
~ Pete

[camaromb]

Lynn,

The Camaro body that was at the body shop to be painted lemans blue had the ZL1 # 48 serial # stamped into the cowl and firewall but had no trim tag or vin tag. That Camaro body had june '69 dates.

The vin plate rubbing, cowl vin photo, firewall /body photos, Georgia bill of sale and Canadian customs form were all given to the body shop owner by the registered owner of the car/cars in question. The Camaro body/primered firewall in the photos we'll call tribute/clone attempt # 1. That car most likely is not the version that went to auction. The auction car we will call tribute/clone attempt version # 3 if the bodyshop painted June '69 dated body is version # 2 and was not used? All we know for sure is that there are two different vin plates that exist and two different body vin stampings, all supplied by the same owner.

Both versions of vin stamps and vin plates have been shown on these threads.

[Hylton]

Besides the fake trim tag Lynn, why two VIN tags? <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/bs.gif

This:

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2013/11/full-1356-7536-dash_vin_zl1_48.jpg


Certainly didn't come from this:

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2013/11/full-1356-7537-dsc05742.jpg

[Lynn]

Pete: You are correct, I should have posted on the other thread. Anyway, if there were a second car out there with <span style="font-weight: bold">my</span> VIN, I would be pissed, and be taking some action.