stolen camaro found out of state

[combackcamaro]

y'all bare with me new this computer stuff.

Jan 2012, my 1973 Z28 Camaro stolen off my property. 2 wks ago got call from Detective. Someone appied for a title out of state. already had tag & insurance on it for a year. (Even though police report made.)So he is informed of car being stolen. Told to make contact with police here where report was made.(REALLY!?) Detective ask me to call man whom has my car, see if we can work out some kinda agreement. That he had invested alot of $ into restoring. When he purchased no transmission, gas tank, fuel lines, steering wheel, drive shaft, gear shift, dashboard, rear end,& list goes on. Hum sounds me like the theift made some big bucks! I told detective I just want my car back. he said for me make contact with their local PD give them info etc. SO I DID .. then I was told this morning..The man whom purchased my stolen Camaro has civil rights & will retain car until PD speaks with DA, find out what to do. REALLY??!! When was law changed about having stolen property even after having knowlege of it? or even a civil right is over the Law? What about my rights, my loss, I was the first victim here.. This afternoon get a email from mans lawyer. They want me pay them $13,500 to recover his investment. What!!! If you have any info to help me PLEASE share. I do not have $13,500 to buy my own stolen car back.

[427.060]

Did you have the car insured and did the insurance pay you for the loss of the car? If so, I think they would actually own the car now that it is found. I also think that the guy that has the car now can remove any parts he installed or had installed. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
James

[njsteve]

Call your local FBI office and ask to speak to the squad that handles Interstate Transportation of Stolen Motor Vehicles (ITSMV). Tell them your very valuable collector car was stolen and just found to be registered in another state. Most of the guys that work that violation are car guys and usually go the extra mile. What local detective is telling you is wrong. The original owner's rights take precedence.

In addition, call the DA in your town and raise a stink right now. The more higher level people you talk to, the more satisfaction you will get.

Call the local newspaper in your area. Stolen collector car recoveries are usuallly attractive media events.

P.S. Something just doesnt sound right here. Do you actually know this local detective that called you, actually works for the police department? It sounds very much like a scam to get $13k out of you.

[Charley Lillard]

http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?t=270874

[njsteve]

Very interesting! So it is a real situation and the current owner is looking for help, too. Most of the advice over there is accurate in reference to a prior title having superior ownership rights.

Never, ever start putting money into a car that you do not have a title, too. That is part of the reason they issue titles: to check the vailidty of the chain of ownership and fix your ownership rights in stone. And yes, i realize some states don't issue titles for old cars any more. NJ does and they run you through the ringer, if you have a car coming from a non titled state.

The semi-serious advice of some of the other guys over there about pulling your parts off or chopping up the car is not too good. It could transform the innocent, good faith purchaser of a stolen car into someone charged as an accessory after the fact, or a possessor of a stolen vehicle.

So the big question for Comebackcamaro is this: Was the car titled in your name, and if so was it insured and did you get paid for the loss? If the answer to the first question is NO, then its going to be a real tough battle to prove your ownership rights are superior. If it was insured and you got paid, it is the insurance company's car to battle over, not yours.

I think one of the posters over there summed it up very well: <span style="font-style: italic">&quot;This is a sucky deal for both parties&quot;</span>

[Lynn]

I know we usually say: &quot;This thread is worthless without pics&quot;

In this case: this thread is worthless without all of the facts.

[combackcamaro]

I 'm not sure how to upload puctures. no insurance was a drag car. therefor have not collected any insurance. I have been study reseaching email &amp; today got a call the police where car is found stolen has been recovered by police. and so far what I am gathering is.. sadly for him thank god for me is any investments put into car he the purchaser has to go back after the seller.
I will know more on monday morning.

[Fast67VelleN2O]

It's unfortunate if you don't have to reimburse the guy who did all of that work to the car before you get it back. He didn't know any better.

[combackcamaro]

this really is a hard case for both parties. and thats reason choose not to have direct contact. I am truely saden for the 16 yr old &amp; hopes he can someday find want he wants &amp; not be stolen.
as to the comments about stripping the car back down well yes that could lead to more problems. the car did need inside work did have little rust but as seen gas tank fuel line etc was removed. this was a drag car.the theift here made every $ he could.also let me add couple weeks later we had 2 more engines stolen. who knows what he recieved would love to know who is the theift &amp; have him put under the jail. i do not wish to have any jail time or record for buyer. he is victim here as well. however bottom line is, its our car, we filed report, 2 yrs later found out of state. we want our car back! did not collect insurance. do not have money to pay for buyers loss. (if we did would hae already replaced.)

[combackcamaro]

also the car had slicks on them not dry roitted tires.

[Charley Lillard]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fast67VelleN2O</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's unfortunate if you don't have to reimburse the guy who did all of that work to the car before you get it back. He didn't know any better. </div></div>

Why should have to reimburse anyone for work that he never authorized ?

[Fast67VelleN2O]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Why should have to reimburse anyone for work that he never authorized ? </div></div>

Maybe its just because I wouldn't be able to sleep at night with that car in my garage and someone else's time and money into it and me having zero into that work. Doesn't matter how it went down.

[70 copo]

I agree with Lillard. Under the law the possessor is as good as the thief. I am surprised this went on as long as it did before he relinquished control of the vehicle.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Theft Defined Under Georgia Law</span>


Theft can occur in a variety of ways under Georgia law. The most common type of theft involves theft by taking, which Georgia statute defines as occurring when a person “unlawfully takes<span style="font-weight: bold"> or, being in lawful possession thereof, unlawfully appropriates any property of another with the intention of depriving him of the property, regardless of the manner in which property is taken or appropriated.”</span> (Georgia Code § 16-8-2.)

Georgia law also provides for several other types of theft, including:
theft by deception (§ 16-8-3.)
theft by conversion (§ 16-8-4.)
theft of services (§ 16-8-5.)
theft of lost or mislaid property (§ 16-8-7.)
<span style="font-weight: bold">theft by receiving property stolen in another state (§ 16-8-8.)
theft by bringing stolen property into the state (§ 16-8-9.)</span>
theft by shoplifting (§ 16-8-14.), and
theft by extortion (§ 16-8-16.).


Theft as Misdemeanor or Felony in Georgia
When a theft offense involves property valued at $500 or less, the crime is punishable as a misdemeanor in Georgia. (§ 16-8-12.) Punishment for a misdemeanor includes a fine of no more than $1,000 and a sentence of imprisonment of no more than 12 months. If an offender receives a sentence of six months or less, it is within the authority and discretion of the sentencing judge to allow the sentence to be served via weekend confinement or during the offender's nonworking hours. (§ 17-10-3.)
If the theft offense involves property valued at more than $500, the crime is punishable as a felony, or as a misdemeanor, at the judge’s discretion. (§ 17-10-5.) If charged as a felony, theft carries a sentence of imprisonment of not less than one year and not more than ten years. (§ 16-8-12.) The other circumstances under which a theft is punishable as a felony in Georgia include:
theft of anhydrous ammonia (one to ten years of imprisonment)
theft involving the breach of a fiduciary relationship (one to 15 years of imprisonment, and/or a fine)
theft of government or bank property, by an employee (one to 15 years of imprisonment, and/or a fine)
theft involving a gravesite or cemetery decoration (one to three years of imprisonment)
<span style="font-weight: bold">theft of a motor vehicle or vehicle part worth more than $100 (one to 10 years of imprisonment)</span>
theft committed while telemarketing, using a computer or computer network, or engaging in home repair or improvement (one to 10 years of imprisonment),
theft of a destructive device, explosive, or firearm (one to 10 years of imprisonment).

[old5.0]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fast67VelleN2O</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Why should have to reimburse anyone for work that he never authorized ? </div></div>

Maybe its just because I wouldn't be able to sleep at night with that car in my garage and someone else's time and money into it and me having zero into that work. Doesn't matter how it went down. </div></div>


It would be the decent thing to do, but by no means should he be forced to reimburse the other guy. He didn't ask to have his car stolen.

[427freak]

Again, good reason for getting clean title and checking paperwork against vin tag. You would be shocked how many cars have come into the store and when we check the vin and title find a typo in the vin, or vin tag missing or obviously tampered with and the owners never knew. I just direct them to the DMV or CHP to get cleaned up. In the early 80's I bought a motorcycle that seemed like a decent deal and the guy said it was en-route. What was en-route were the cops about 2 weeks later to pick up the stolen bike. Nothing I could do but hand it over and suffer the loss. Learned my lesson to get the title when I purchase.

[Charley Lillard]

Years ago a good friend bought a 58 Fuel Injected Vette that needed restoring. It was missing the FI unit but orig engine was still in it. He stripped it to bare glass, body off frame. frame stripped. Two years into it the Highway patrol knocks on his door and asks if he has 58 Vette with Viv # ****. He says yes. Cop says it is stolen. Sal says no it is in the garage. Cop says orig owner has been out of state for two years and when he came home his Vette and 57 Porsche Speedster were both stolen out of storage containers. He had bought both brand new. Porsche had been totally restored and had sold for 70K a couple times. Whoever stole them thought he had died so they never bothered to mess with the vins so they were easy to find. He got a like new Porsche back and he came to the impound yard and saw the Vette all apart and didn't know what to do with it. I bought it from him and my friend that lost it filed suit against the local Ford dealer that was involved in the lien sale that got the cars titled.

[427freak]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427freak</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Again, good reason for getting clean title and checking paperwork against vin tag. You would be shocked how many cars have come into the store and when we check the vin and title find a typo in the vin, or vin tag missing or obviously tampered with and the owners never knew. I just direct them to the DMV or CHP to get cleaned up. In the early 80's I bought a motorcycle that seemed like a decent deal and the guy said it was en-route. What was en-route were the cops about 2 weeks later to pick up the stolen bike. Nothing I could do but hand it over and suffer the loss. Learned my lesson to get the title when I purchase. </div></div>

I meant to say the guy said the 'Title' was en-route. Sorry

[69LM1]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: combackcamaro</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I 'm not sure how to upload puctures. no insurance was a drag car. therefor have not collected any insurance. I have been study reseaching email &amp; today got a call the police where car is found stolen has been recovered by police. and so far what I am gathering is.. sadly for him thank god for me is any investments put into car he the purchaser has to go back after the seller.
I will know more on monday morning. </div></div>


I think this sucks for the guy who invested thousands of dollars into the car with his 16yo son. So you are OK with getting\taking 13k in upgrades on a car you said was worth 2500?

In My (not so) Humble Opinion, it is morally (I know not legally) wrong for you to keep the parts that this guy and his 16yo son put on the car.

You should either let them pay you the 2500 you said that car was worth, maybe 500 more for your troubles, or let them take the parts off the car that they put on after it was bought.

IMO, that would be the <span style="font-style: italic">right</span> thing to do.....

Rich

[AutumngoldL78]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 69LM1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: combackcamaro</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I 'm not sure how to upload puctures. no insurance was a drag car. therefor have not collected any insurance. I have been study reseaching email &amp; today got a call the police where car is found stolen has been recovered by police. and so far what I am gathering is.. sadly for him thank god for me is any investments put into car he the purchaser has to go back after the seller.
I will know more on monday morning. </div></div>


I think this sucks for the guy who invested thousands of dollars into the car with his 16yo son. So you are OK with getting\taking 13k in upgrades on a car you said was worth 2500?

In My (not so) Humble Opinion, it is morally (I know not legally) wrong for you to keep the parts that this guy and his 16yo son put on the car.

You should either let them pay you the 2500 you said that car was worth, maybe 500 more for your troubles, or let them take the parts off the car that they put on after it was bought.

IMO, that would be the <span style="font-style: italic">right</span> thing to do.....

Rich </div></div>

X2

[68l30]

What is this Little league? Everyone gets a trophy? It appears to be a stolen car, STOLEN PROPERTY...He apparently own's it. The one who invested in stolen property loses, sad but true,a hard expensive lesson to learn. He may be a great guy, BUT..

Make sure you buy a car with a clean title. I've bought 100's...if something is fishy, I walk...no.. I run away!

BIG

[twertsy]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 68l30</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is this Little league? Everyone gets a trophy? It appears to be a stolen car, STOLEN PROPERTY...He apparently own's it. The one who invested in stolen property loses, sad but true,a hard expensive lesson to learn. He may be a great guy, BUT..

Make sure you buy a car with a clean title. I've bought 100's...if something is fishy, I walk...no.. I run away!

BIG </div></div>

I don't think Rich was saying it shouldn't be a snooze/lose situation..........just that giving the parts back / selling the car to them would be the morally responsible thing to do. Personally, I'd sell them the car for $3k and be done.

[Stefano]

It's not always quite that simple. New titles have been issued on stolen cars. Going through the legal system to recover a loss can be very costly.

While you don't hear much about it, the major auctions have been known to catch a few stolen vehicles now and again, much to the surprise of the current &quot;owners&quot;.

[ktownkid]

Holy cow...!!! What a mess...!!! I guess the lawyers will figure it out...

ktownkid <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif

[69LM1]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: twertsy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 68l30</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is this Little league? Everyone gets a trophy? It appears to be a stolen car, STOLEN PROPERTY...He apparently own's it. The one who invested in stolen property loses, sad but true,a hard expensive lesson to learn. He may be a great guy, BUT..

Make sure you buy a car with a clean title. I've bought 100's...if something is fishy, I walk...no.. I run away!

BIG </div></div>

I don't think Rich was saying it shouldn't be a snooze/lose situation..........just that giving the parts back / selling the car to them would be the morally responsible thing to do. Personally, I'd sell them the car for $3k and be done. </div></div>


Correct, the original owner should not be out of anything, and undoubtedly some upgrades cannot be taken off the car (body work etc) and should remain with the car, but it's also not fair IMO for him to get 7 times the value of the car back on some 16yo kids first car. I mean even here many post cars for sale and then say that the &quot;rims don't go with the car&quot; . Even license plates (J/k Charley) sometimes stay with the car. If the current keeper of the Camaro put on $4k rims, you are ok with the older owner getting them on a $2500 project car and too bad for the kid?

Sorry, that just seems wrong to me.

By the same token, the current owners should not damage the car in any way, even if they did body prep work or other non removable items.

I do think it should be the original owners choice:

1. Let the current person take his removable parts off the car without damaging it
2. Original owner to buy the cars upgrades for a very reasonable price
3. Let the current person buy the car for what it was worth, maybe a little more for &quot;interest&quot;

Sad thing is that we all know the cops won't trace this back. The person whom stole the car will probably get away with it......

Rich

[PxTx]

I would not be so quick to reduce the value to the fellow who had his car stolen. Anyone own a car that had more personal value than what it might actually have been worth? Does the guy need to reveal everything to be justified?

I looked at a few cars in my youth which my dad sniffed out right away as being ones to walk away from. One 5.0 Mustang in particular, in hind sight, was probably a stoken car. I was lucky to have a wise father.

[68l30]

I know it sucks, I’ve been there. I was ripped off a ton of money, at the worst time in my life, when I could have desperately used it. In a way, I‘m still paying for it today one way or another. I had to go thru the justice system. When only two parties were involved, it took years. I took away his freedom and only then I was reimbursed what I lost. My added expenses, and hardships were another matter. I got nothing in the end for them. Sadly, The 16 year old needs to go thru the system, same as everyone else. He can file a report, let the investigation unfold and hopefully catch the thief that stole the car and stole his money . He’ll probably have to file a civil suit, if the person is ever apprehended. Either way, it’s going to take some time.

It pays to keep your files intact. Who you bought it from, where, phone numbers ect. Always keep some type of file or trail in this day of scam artists.


BIG

[PeteLeathersac]

Both wronged parties need to fight separate legal battles making sure the perpetrator is apprehended and firmly dealt with first.
Do whatever's necessary to get the car back legally including fresh title in hand <span style="text-decoration: underline">dated after </span> any of the foolishness that went on.
Car home and title secure you can look at the car/parts/situation w/ fresh eyes and if you can help the father/son team w/ cash and/or parts back or agree on a fair amount to sell them the project, big kudos to you!
Good intentions or not, involving the father/son too early could obstruct the clear path necessary to firmly nab the crook and/or gain hold of the car and clear title so best proceed selfishly until the cards are in your hand to play whatever way you see fit then.
Best to all innocents involved, swing the thief from the highest tree!
<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif
~ Pete

[66 L78 ragtop]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ktownkid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Holy cow...!!! What a mess...!!! I guess the lawyers will figure it out...

ktownkid <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif </div></div>

Get the lawyers involved as a last resort.

The law will likely yield a lopsided decision. The original victim will likely get his car back. The subsequent victim will loose his $$$. The original victim wins and the second innocent victim gets shafted even more. ( he loses the car he already paid for as well as his restoration expenses)

The only one that should really get the shaft is the thief or thieves

The bottom line is that there are two victims here and from an ethical perspective, both need to reach an amicable decision.

1. The original victim recovers his car and the second victim keeps as much as his investment as possible

2. The original victim sells the recovered vehicle to the second victim.

Keep the lawyers out of it if possible as both will pay out and loose even more.

Both parties need to come together, find the perpetrator and make him pay figuratively and literally.

Although the second victim was probably in the wrong/careless for investing in a car without a title, one can argue that the original victim was in the wrong/careless for not properly securing his vehicle.

Just my opinion

[resto4u]

There have been cars that have had two clean titles from different states. it does happen, but in most cases the law will side for the owner that had the cars stolen. Situations like this should never happen, but they do. And as stefano said, sometimes auctions do catch these problems. Unfortunately some of these cases will go to court, they both will not win. And the government will not accept any liability for this.

[whitetop]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fast67VelleN2O</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Why should have to reimburse anyone for work that he never authorized ? </div></div>

Maybe its just because I wouldn't be able to sleep at night with that car in my garage and someone else's time and money into it and me having zero into that work. Doesn't matter how it went down. </div></div>

Same here..I would try to reimburse the guy who spent the money..maybe not all but a reasonable monetary amount.

[markjohnson]

No way the original owner/victim should have to &quot;reimburse&quot; the money that was stuck into it. What if the car had been painted a color that he hates, had 1/4 panels installed that he could have done himself or had a rollcage installed that he would have never wanted in the car. How about if your rare original COPO was stolen and modified into a pro touring car and you were told that you should help pay for the transformation? Similar situation happened here a few years back where a Corvette was returned to its owner/victim many, many years after being stolen and was being licensed after a major restoration.

[SuperNovaSS]

It certainly sucks for both parties. It sounds like the guy who had the car stolen also had other things stolen. He may still be in the losing position even if the car has been partially restored. I'm sure many of us have had &quot;done&quot; cars that we completely tore apart. Each person's idea of finished or restored can be different. I have not seen this car so I can't say whether is is better off than when it was stolen or not. What paperwork did the current &quot;owner&quot; get with the car when he bought it? Again, this is a horrible situation for each party involved. Can we get a &quot;thieves suck&quot; emoticon?


Jason

[69LM1]

So.... The original owner should screw the second victim to get back as much investment as he can?

I understand quarters and paint, but the engine/rims/transmission that the second victim put in the car do not belong to the first victim in any way (ethically, not legally).

I am sure there is plenty of things they both did wrong (and hell, I've done it myself!) but in the end the primary victim did not ask to be stolen from nor did the second victim know the car was hot before he started on it. They both could have made better decisions, but the only one that deserves scorn is the thief.

I agree, if they get lawyers involved it will be a lose/lose.


Rich

[70 copo]

Under Georgia Law the father of the kid is considered the thief, and based upon his previous posts on other sites- He knew back in July that issues were emerging with the car.

I feel for the kid too, but failure and tough lessions will teach things you need to know in life. This is one of those lessons.

[69LM1]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 70 copo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Under Georgia Law the father of the kid is considered the thief, and based upon his previous posts on other sites- He knew back in July that issues were emerging with the car.

I feel for the kid too, but failure and tough lessions will teach things you need to know in life. This is one of those lessons. </div></div>

Perhaps I missed something then. If the second &quot;victim&quot; knew the car was hot then yes, I have no interest in defending him.

I understood that he didn't know the car was hot, just that he was having trouble getting it titled. If he knew it was stolen then I agree he should get nothing.

Rich

[Kurt S]

Several Corvettes have been returned to their prior owners, fully restored. And when they had the car 20 years before, it was just a driver.
It's not nice, but the prior owner gets back the car. The law is very clear on this. Often if upgrades can be removed, that is allowed. Wheels, yes. Engine may depend on the case.
So sorry for the current owner, but such is the law.

[njsteve]

You know, this would be a perfect time for &quot;FOOSE-MAN&quot;, that TV show guy, to step in and get the 16 year-old kid a decent car and overhaul it for him. It seems like that poor kid is another victim in all of this.

[Stefano]

You need to be at least the age of majority in order to enter into a valid contract for the purchase of a vehicle or that contract may be null and void.

[old5.0]

It appears that guy#2 continued to dump money into the car even after some sort of issue emerged.

Also, over on NastyZ28, several people seem to be operating under the premise that this car, when stolen, was nothing but a tub. However, guy#1, in his original post here, seems to indicate that this was a complete car when it disappeared. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif

[Smokey]

So lets say the guy has the car stolen...then the car gets restored after its restored. Lets just say the original owner never knew what it was other than a race car...and here it was a Yenko or ZL1 that the new owner thinks is worth 200-500k and has half or more than that into it. The original owner can't afford to pay him even though he wants to. But it was his car in the first place before it was stolen along with his other things. It doesn't matter if its a 16 year old son, or if someone dropped 10k or 100k into it. Someone should of done their paperwork first even if its right or wrong. I had it happen to me. I wish I could of got my money back but the guy was a deadbeat. My deadbeat has a court order to pay me back but I never can or will get a dime out of him. All I can do is turn him into his parole officer every now and he gets a week of jail time each of the 4 times I turned him in the last 5 years. Sad thing is I know who the pos is but I can't do anything about it other than narking on him to get jail time.

[kwhizz]

Bring back the day's of having a Justice System in our Country.........Instead of a Legal System where there is no Black or White.........Where's Detective Joe Friday when you need him!!!

[Pulnaway]

Who here would restore a car without having a title? Stupidity is not an excuse. I feel sorry for the kid, but this is his fathers fault.

[Lynn]

Read part of the thread at NastyZ. Also read the second owner's build thread. The pics below are from a link in that build thread. Several posts assume the new guy put an engine in it. He did not. I am 100% certain we do not have all the facts. Here is what the smart a$$ in me wants to say:

The new &quot;owner&quot; decided to replace the factory muncie 4 speed that came with the car, but was not installed, with an automatic. Not sure if the tranny was numbers matching, but it AND the engine that was in it but not running (only needed a distributor and some tlc apparently) may be. Again, don't have all the facts. Anyway, clearly the Camaro gods simply pooped on his parade for dissing the 4 speed. Instant Karma and all that.

Now that I got that bit of foolishness off my chest, as stated, we simply don't have all the facts. Second &quot;owner&quot; says the title was &quot;clean as a whislte.&quot; He may be a perfectly honest gentleman. I have no reason to believe otherwise. I SUSPECT &quot;clean as a whistle&quot; means no research into previous owners. Hmmm, you say, why would I want to research previous owners on a car with a clean title? Take a look at the picture below. Notice anything missing from that column? Why yes, it is the KEY CYLINDER!!!! If I am looking at a car without the key cylinder, I am going to do some real digging into its history. Not saying the guy didn't do that. Just saying there was certainly a big enough red flag to warrant some serious investigation.

Regardless of whether the 2nd owner SHOULD HAVE OR ACTUALLY DID DO THE INVESTIGATION, the original owner, if he is in fact the owner, gets his car back.

One last thing. Everyone keeps saying they need to go after the thief. While I agree, I also believe they need to go after the scum bag that &quot;created&quot; the new &quot;clean as a whistle&quot; title. Had to be some fraud involved in getting that done.

[GaryC]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kwhizz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bring back the day's of having a Justice System in our Country.........Instead of a Legal System where there is no Black or White.........Where's Detective Joe Friday when you need him!!! </div></div>



Today...your guilty until proven innocent.

[70 copo]

Poor kid....

[old5.0]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 70 copo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Poor kid.... </div></div>

No kidding. Hope they catch the pus gargling wank that stole the car to begin with. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/bs.gif

[x77-69z28]

That steering column should have gotten someone's spider senses tingling! As in no ignition cylinder. I personally have never bought a car without an ignition cylinder.

[jannes_z-28]

Every time I read stories like this I'm amazed on how it is possible in a country like the USA to be able to title a stolen car.

Why aren't the car registry under control by federal government? Why can't a state registry check into another states records? Why isn't a cars stolen report spread to all other states for them to check before giving out a title?

It is clearly an administrative fault by your government.


Something like this could never happen over here, no way. Only way would be to change the VIN to one from a non stolen scraped car.

By a system like ours there is no market for stolen cars here, stolen cars are taken out of the country and sold in Russia or other former Soviet countries.


Jan

[twertsy]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jannes_z-28</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Every time I read stories like this I'm amazed on how it is possible in a country like the USA to be able to title a stolen car.

Why aren't the car registry under control by federal government? Why can't a state registry check into another states records? Why isn't a cars stolen report spread to all other states for them to check before giving out a title?

It is clearly an administrative fault by your government.


Something like this could never happen over here, no way. Only way would be to change the VIN to one from a non stolen scraped car.

By a system like ours there is no market for stolen cars here, stolen cars are taken out of the country and sold in Russia or other former Soviet countries.


Jan </div></div>

With all due respect Jan, our government can't even build a website. 9 out of 10 times your proposal would make it worse.........

[Billohio]

Our states each want to be in control of something and the revenue it generates. Can't blame them for wanting to keep it local. Our problem in Ohio. Is Columbus gets a big road project done then rest of us away from town have horrible roads.
No reason a stolen car data base couldn't work.
Doesn't help when some states allowed a bill of sale like the recent zl-1 that was sold. I think was in Georgia. No title needed there

[old5.0]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jannes_z-28</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

By a system like ours there is no market for stolen cars here, <span style="font-weight: bold">stolen cars are taken out of the country and sold in Russia or other former Soviet countries.</span>
</div></div>

And that's better how???? <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif

[markinnaples]

A. The US Federal Govt is inept at most everything.
B. The states' rights have been stripped away at every turn over the last 100 years.
C. Sometimes there are just crappy situations where someone wins, someone loses, and sometimes both win, and sometimes both lose (this situation, seemingly).
D. Life ain't fair, but if you do your due diligence, most of the time you can sniff out situations that just don't seem right and avoid them.

JMO

[twertsy]

It ain't JYO........

[Fast67VelleN2O]

x3

[markinnaples]

How's this for a perfect example:

http://news.yahoo.com/special-report-pen...--business.html (http://news.yahoo.com/special-report-pentagons-doctored-ledgers-conceal-epic-waste-144950858--business.html)

[Verne_Frantz]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kwhizz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bring back the day's of having a Justice System in our Country.........Instead of a Legal System where there is no Black or White.........Where's Detective Joe Friday when you need him!!! </div></div>

Yep. Your post was exactly my first thought after reading the post above yours. Where is the Justice in our system today? If you do no wrong, you should be protected; if you do wrong, you should be punished. Too simple I guess.

Verne <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif

[combackcamaro]

Well I am on my way back to Georgia with my car. I went with $10,000 cash in hand to do what others seem to be moraly right. But when I saw my car I realized what bad advise some had shared with this man, because now he has made the biggest mistake of his life. Thats all I can say for now.. Wil post all those picture when the feds are done.

[Chevyfever]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: combackcamaro</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I am on my way back to Georgia with my car. I went with $10,000 cash in hand to do what others seem to be moraly right. But when I saw my car I realized what bad advise some had shared with this man, because now he has made the biggest mistake of his life. Thats all I can say for now.. Wil post all t<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"></div></div>hose picture when the feds are done. </div></div>Great news glad you did not give that joker a penny!!

[jannes_z-28]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: old5.0</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jannes_z-28</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

By a system like ours there is no market for stolen cars here, <span style="font-weight: bold">stolen cars are taken out of the country and sold in Russia or other former Soviet countries.</span>
</div></div>

And that's better how???? <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif </div></div>

Well at least you can't drive around in a stolen car for 10 years believing you bought it fair. If you consider the first part of my post it is very strange that situations like this can happen in the first place.

The stolen cars going to Eastern Europe are new BMW's Merc's and other high priced cars. Most of them have tracking devices and are in most cases found before they cross the borders.

Old cars like ours are not of interest for the criminals.

[70 copo]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: combackcamaro</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I am on my way back to Georgia with my car. I went with $10,000 cash in hand to do what others seem to be moraly right. But when I saw my car I realized what bad advise some had shared with this man, because now he has made the biggest mistake of his life. Thats all I can say for now.. Wil post all t<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"></div></div>hose picture when the feds are done. </div></div>

You just knew the guy with the car was going to get too self assured by all the people on forums telling him what he &quot;should do&quot; while he continued to pour money into what was becoming obvious--that he was in possession of stolen property.

He must have really pissed you off ..looking forward to the details.

[Fast67VelleN2O]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: combackcamaro</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I am on my way back to Georgia with my car. I went with $10,000 cash in hand to do what others seem to be moraly right. But when I saw my car I realized what bad advise some had shared with this man, because now he has made the biggest mistake of his life. Thats all I can say for now.. Wil post all t<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"></div></div>hose picture when the feds are done. </div></div>

He must have stripped everything off the car.

[njsteve]

That's pretty much what I warned the &quot;advisers&quot; against doing, on the other site, who were saying they would pull everything off. But, hey, free legal advice is worth every penny you paid for it!

I essentially said that if anything is removed, now that is known to have been stolen, the &quot;remover&quot; could get charged with all sorts of charges in several states, such as accessory after the fact, possession of stolen property, additional theft charges, etc. And these would be felony grand theft charges since the value is over $1,000. And top it off with the fact that the car traveled across state lines and you have the federal offense of Interstate Transportation of Stolen Property.

Sounds like the present &quot;owner&quot; did something not-so-wise and the locals and possibly the feds, dog-piled on him. Very sad outcome for that guy.

[JimSC]

wow...

[69LM1]

Yea... Lets all celebrate a 16yo kid is now probably forever burned on muscle cars. It might be Illegal but in what moral world would anyone be happy that the kid lost thousands of dollars on parts, all for those parts to be given to the original owner who did not buy them?

And shame on the OP here, the feds and any local LEO's and DA if they go after this kid for taking off the parts that he bought (as long as they did not damage the car in any way).

Based on what the OP said, I question that statement that he went there with 10k to give the father/son. Why not tell them up front?

Here he says he does not want to deal with the current person:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: combackcamaro</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="text-decoration: underline">Detective ask me to call man whom has my car, see if we can work out some kinda agreement.</span> That he had invested alot of $ into restoring. When he purchased no transmission, gas tank, fuel lines, steering wheel, drive shaft, gear shift, dashboard, rear end,&amp; list goes on. Hum sounds me like the theift made some big bucks! <span style="font-weight: bold">I told detective I just want my car back</span>.</div></div>

Here he says that it is too bad for the kid, he gets all of the investments into the car, even those he KNOWS were not on the car when stolen and bought by the dad/kid:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: combackcamaro</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> sadly for him thank god for me is any investments put into car he the purchaser has to go back after the seller.</div></div>

Rich

[Lynn]

I don't know that anyone is celebrating.

Still would like to hear ALL of the facts.

Do I feel bad for the 16 year old? Absolutely (at least as far as I know).

Do I feel bad for his dad? I have no idea, because I don't know what he knew and when he knew it.

When I was 20, I had a chance to buy a gorgeous citrus green 70Z. Engine and tranny were missing. Rest of the car was cherry. Car was 1 year old. $500. Black and white houndstooth interior. Guy couldn't wait to give me the keys and have me sign a bill of sale. He said I could easily get it titled with that bill of sale. Hmmm. Even at age 20, I knew something was wrong. Whole thing was too good to be true. I passed. Car turned out to be stolen.

I am NOT saying the dad knew or should have known. I don't think we have all the facts.

Also, if the dad did buy this car on the up and up, and did get paperwork from the seller, he has recourse.

[69LM1]

Granted Lynn. I'd also like to know more about what the Dad knew and when.

However, that does not justify the moral position of the OP taking parts he knows he did not purchase and basically saying too bad for the dad/kid.

If he was going to offer the dad/son 10k, why didn't he start off talking to them as the officer suggested? By the OP's own words the officer who inspected the car stated that the father/son invested thousands of dollars into the car (again if the Dad knew it was stolen that's a different story) and suggested that the OP and Dad try and work something fair out.

That's what should have morally happened IMO.

Instead the OP stated that he had no interest in working anything out, he just wanted the car back as is, based on the law. He also stated he was getting the upgrades on the car and the father/son would have to go after the seller.

Now all of a sudden he was going to offer 10k to the father and son? Sorry, I don't think I believe him based on what he said here.

I'd also like to know more on how the father/son bought the car............ Maybe that guy will start a thread over at Camaros.org or something <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

Rich

[Lynn]

I don't know that I disagree with anything you have stated Rich.

I would LIKE to know all the facts. I don't KNOW that we ever will.

[twertsy]

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/bs.gif on the OP taking 10k to compensate the kid and his dad. I believe he said he couldn't afford &quot;anything&quot; earlier in this or a thread on another site. Hate the thieves for putting everyone in the positions they're in. In terms of us, I don't think we know enough to judge anyone. That kid sure looked happy in the earlier pic and we all feel for him I'm sure.

[Smokey]

Its sad seeing everyone on this page assume this and that. I thought this group was bigger than that. Just sayin is all. I feel bad for everyone involved in some shape and way of this story.

[Kurt S]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jannes_z-28</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why aren't the car registry under control by federal government? Why can't a state registry check into another states records? Why isn't a cars stolen report spread to all other states for them to check before giving out a title?

It is clearly an administrative fault by your government.</div></div>
The US does have a system. All stolen cars should be entered in the NICB database. All states should check the database before issuing a title on a car.
Obviously, somewhere that system failed.

[Pulnaway]

Maybe I missed something...but I dont think so. The system did not fail. The guy has had the car in his possession since august of 2012. He says he checked into it and the title was clear??? Sure you did!!! In July of this year he tried to get a title and found out it was stolen. Now 4 mos later the guy is on the Z site asking the internet for help? In my opinion this whole situation was of purchasers making. This kids father made all the wrong moves from day one. The only thing here that failed is common sence.

[Lynn]

It APPEARS that is correct. Like I keep saying, I don't know that we have all the facts.

I have looked at a couple cars over the years with question marks. You can write down the vin and call your local police to make sure it is not stolen.

[RichSchmidt]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kurt S</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jannes_z-28</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why aren't the car registry under control by federal government? Why can't a state registry check into another states records? Why isn't a cars stolen report spread to all other states for them to check before giving out a title?

It is clearly an administrative fault by your government.</div></div>
The US does have a system. All stolen cars should be entered in the NICB database. All states should check the database before issuing a title on a car.
Obviously, somewhere that system failed. </div></div>

I have an FBI fraud investigator AND a NJ State police detective working on getting NICB info for my car,and both have said that there is no record of the car ever being made. So much for guys saying that NICB knows all sorts of stuff about our cars. I don't think the database is as complete as people think.