NCRS Shipping Records for Camaro, Chevelle, Nova

[Drew Papsun]

1965-1972 Chevrolet Historical Document Services


National Corvette Restorers Society is pleased to announce that we can now provide certain information for model years 1965 through 1972 for Camaro, Chevelle and Nova through the efforts of the NCRS and permission granted by General Motors. We believe our fellow hobbyists and car clubs have desired this information since it became available for Corvettes several years ago.

The information consists of the dealer code, dealer name, dealer location and the production date the car was produced. The good news is this may allow you to find the original dealer where your Chevrolet Camaro, Chevelle or Nova was shipped and possibly open the door to finding more information about your Chevrolet.

A Camaro, Chevelle or Nova Shipping Data Report can be ordered only online. Membership in NCRS is not required. The fee will be $50 payable by credit card or PayPal. You will receive via USPS a letter with the information which includes the NCRS official seal. In limited cases the dealer code is not available or readable and in this case a full refund will be made.

This service will begin during the second quarter of 2014, at: www.chevymuscledocs.com (http://www.chevymuscledocs.com)

This is a big help.
Regards,
Drew Papsun

[the427king]

Drew, thats really great news and long overdue . It will be interesting to see how many cars have "dealer invoices" and protecto plates from the wrong dealer.

[rare4k]

great news

[Verne_Frantz]

Yes, great news for some, but my cars (58-64 fullsize) are still left in the dust <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif

Verne <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/cry.gif

[MosportGreen66]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: the427king</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Drew, thats really great news and long overdue . It will be interesting to see how many cars have &quot;dealer invoices&quot; and protecto plates from the wrong dealer. </div></div>

Chuck, this report ONLY shows the original dealer who either ordered the the car or where it was first delivered. This report does NOT state the dealer who sold the car.

My Mosport '66 was sold from Hal Watkins Chevrolet (according to the POP) but ordered to Beach City Chevrolet (according to the NCRS report). We suspect it was a dealer swap.

Dan

[442w30]

Drew, I used to live in SoNo. Did you ever go to the Cow Pasture shows?

[Drew Papsun]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 442w30</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Drew, I used to live in SoNo. Did you ever go to the Cow Pasture shows? </div></div>

Hello Diego,
The show and swap meet are in April. The group that runs the show donates to a local charity.
It is a nice setting out in the park field down by the beach over looking Long Island Sound.
The Calif Pasture in a local park to the residents of Norwalk, CT.
Regards,
Drew Papsun

[Paul_S]

That's great! ...but why limited to those three cars and the short year span?

Paul

[twertsy]

I can't for the life of me figure out why they won't release their records. We know they have millions of boxes of paper records in warehouses. I just don't get it. I've looked at it 1,000 different ways and can't figure out what the issue could possibly be?? The potential revenue for Chevrolet from such a release is astounding. I for one would pay 3, 4, $500 for &quot;as built&quot; documentation on a high-end collectible car, as I'm sure many would.

[hiperf406]

I don't know why GM won't make US records available if they actually have them. GM Canada has been doing it for years &amp; it is a real handy feature to prove authenticity of cars sold in Canada.

[njsteve]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: twertsy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can't for the life of me figure out why they won't release their records. We know they have millions of boxes of paper records in warehouses. I just don't get it. I've looked at it 1,000 different ways and can't figure out what the issue could possibly be?? The potential revenue for Chevrolet from such a release is astounding. I for one would pay 3, 4, $500 for &quot;as built&quot; documentation on a high-end collectible car, as I'm sure many would. </div></div>

The same reason the government won't release those alien bodies from Area 51 and The Lost Ark of the Covenant. Those damn Chevy paperwork crates are blocking the aisles in the building, and they can't get to them. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif

[twertsy]

Sounds like a job for Lara Croft <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/drool.gif

I'll volunteer as sidekick.....

[TimG]

I don't think the records are available, they'd release them if they were. Too many people with connections would be demanding them if they existed.

[twertsy]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TimG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't think the records are available, they'd release them if they were. Too many people with connections would be demanding them if they existed. </div></div>

Then they need to leverage their weight....I have it on good authority that there are at least &quot;a million boxes of records&quot; in warehouse(s)

[olredalert]

----Twertsy,,,,Im sorry, but you have heard wrong.....Bill S

[twertsy]

That could very well be Bill, simply quoting a source.

[SoupCoup]

I've been in the building that the Canaidian records are said to be held(Oshawa),but never seen them,But the staff assured me they are there &amp; take up over 3/4 of the third floor.

[427freak]

Sounds great. I have been using this service for the Vettes and it has been very helpful.
I wonder which dealer the 68 Yenko Camaro will show, Yenko or the Yenko network dealer? Can't wait to order a few.

[Lynn]

I didn't see this until this morning.

Roy Sinor contacted me yesterday to let me know this was coming available. This is GREAT news for the hobby. And here I thought I was getting advance notice.

While not the complete information we would like to see, it is a great start.

There is still hope for 55-64 cars. The same info exists as for the 65-72 Camaro, Chevelle and Nova cars. My understanding is that NCRS simply had to draw the line somewhere, as the cost involved to manually go through hundrends of thousands of car records on microfiche, convert to a digital, searchable format, and get it organized has already exceeded $100k. Hats off to NCRS for taking this one. BTW, that is why there will be a charge, to help offset that cost.

One of the things I believe they will be able to do is confirm that the BDY number on my trim tag is the number that was there when the car was born. That number is referred to in GM docs as the &quot;ident&quot; number, and is in every record available. So, no swapping a GM tag from another car and getting away with it.

$50? That's a bargain.

[markjohnson]

This has to be much easier for the Corvette crowd since every Corvette up until 1981 came out of the single plant in St. Louis. I would think that the multiple plants that did Chevelles, Camaros, Novas, and full-size cars really complicate record keeping.

[Lynn]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: markjohnson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This has to be much easier for the Corvette crowd since every Corvette up until 1981 came out of the single plant in St. Louis. I would think that the multiple plants that did Chevelles, Camaros, Novas, and full-size cars really complicate record keeping. </div></div>

Absolutely. Roy said it was a tough sell, but believed that, because NCRS was in a position to do this, they were somewhat obligated to the hobby. Of course, because it is so much more complex, that is exactly why they couldn't take it on for every car from 1955 to 1972.

[resto4u]

I would like to hear where this info was found, and why jim mattison could not find it?

[TDW]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: resto4u</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would like to hear where this info was found, and why jim mattison could not find it? </div></div>


It sure seems like I read a post from Jim Mattison a while back, stating that he had made a hell of an attempt to find the records, but was told by the higher-ups that they simply did not exist anymore.Sounds like the higher-up guy didn't know what he was talking about?

[Lynn]

I THINK Jim was looking for paper records, i.e. build sheets, and all the info that Pontiac saved.
This info has existed all along. Not until NCRS pursued it for Corvettes a while back did anyone ever think it might be valuable. It is referred to as &quot;shipper&quot; info. And, it is ALL on microfiche only. That is part of what makes it so tough to get digital and searchable.

As far as I know, there are still no leads on paper records.

[Verne_Frantz]

EVERYTHING is easier for the Corvette hobby because records for only ONE plant are required. Full size passenger cars between 58-64 account for 15 different assembly plants. Believe me, deciphering accurate data on those cars has been a huge challenge. 30 years of research.
Jim Mattison told me years ago that he had &quot;some&quot; information but it all resided at the plants, some of which have been closed for a long time. Is all that true? Who knows.
I'm afraid I'm going to die before these cars I love will ever have a route to define the real ones from the fakes.

Verne <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif

[ANDY M]

Jim Mattison spoke at the MCACN in 2011, and stated that he had found where the records had been, stored in a warehouse in PA. Trouble was that he was a day late and a dollar short. Some bean-counter had everything destroyed because the information was obsolete, and not worth the cost of storage. These were the detailed records of all Chevy's built since 1948.
The NCRS info sounds like what the NICB report has, and not much more.
JMHO

[SBR]

Drew, will there be a document validation service for these cars similar to what is offered for Corvettes?

[GaryC]

The waiting is the hard part to deal with...the anticipation is killing me. Come on April...

[Paul_S]

Ok, it does make sense to start with this year and vehicle span as it is quite labor/equipment intensive to get the data digital and searchable. -start with what they project as the highest requested volume. As owners requests increase, over time I can see the data (years &amp; models) available expanding. Thing is how long until then...

Paul

[TAR6569]

I'll work for them for a decent rate to help them with the 64-70 fullsize cars!

[rsinor]

Until NCRS gets their hands wrapped around the Shipping Data Service for the 65-72 Camaro, Nova and Chevelle there will be no other service available. I do personally believe that there will be a second service available along the lines of the document validation service provided for the Corvette, the service will very slightly as it is apparent at this time that not only can it authenticate original GM documents, it can for some plants, some years, link original cowl tags to the VIN. It will not in and of itself identify reproduction cowl tags unless they contain the incorrect string identifier for a specific VIN.

[Nasblu]

Roy,

Do you ever see these records being available for earlier cars such as 56-61 corvettes or 55-65 full size Chevrolet cars? I believe the corvette shipping reports go back to around VIN 6000 for 1962 corvettes???

Thanks,
Matt.

[rsinor]

I would like to think that at some point the records could be re digitized and the search could be refined such that we might get more but I'm afraid that the St Louis records started at around 6000 in 62 and don't exist earlier than that. To find the Corvette records we searched for the S, did the digitizer read some S's as 5's possibly. are some pages of microfiche damaged beyond the original search capability or missing possibly. Long story short I don't know.

[Bill Pritchard]

Well, regardless of what comes out of all this, my hat is off to those who are involved in this effort <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/worship.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/worship.gif

[427freak]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill Pritchard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, regardless of what comes out of all this, my hat is off to those who are involved in this effort <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/worship.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/worship.gif </div></div>

I agree!
Roy has been great to work with regarding the Corvette's. Any info that can be had might lead to the missing link in your car's history, or dispel previous stories.

[Stefano]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsinor</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> it can for some plants, some years, link original cowl tags to the VIN. It will not in and of itself identify reproduction cowl tags unless they contain the incorrect string identifier for a specific VIN. </div></div>

This is monumental.

[PeteLeathersac]

Hallelujah!!!
<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/worship.gif
~ Pete

[67rs/ss]

Is there anyone with a NICB report and one of these reports? Are they the same? What is the difference if any?

Thanks, Tony

[Verne_Frantz]

It may be a bit premature to know exactly what is included until Roy actually gets his hands on a record from the microfiche. I'm also very curious as to what actual document was put on film and how it will correlate to a car (by VIN or just cowl tag info?)

Verne <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/flag.gif

[bergy]

Most of you have probably seen the report that NCRS offers for Corvettes. I've attached one of my reports for those others who are curious.

[1969l78]

Something is better then nothing.

[L78M22Rag]

I'd be very happy with the NCRS report that's available for Corvettes. I agree, knowing the original delivery dealer would be a great start for trying to locate original paperwork or local history on a car, or even to somewhat validate existing paperwork.

[BillD]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bergy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most of you have probably seen the report that NCRS offers for Corvettes. I've attached one of my reports for those others who are curious.

</div></div>

Thank you for posting. I have never seen one of the Corvette reports. I would also be very happy to receive that information once it becomes available.

[P.J.]

I bet that some people are really starting to worry
if these records come out
PJ

[Lynn]

I THINK some will also have the ident number, which is the same as the BDY number on the trim tag.
Just glad we are getting something.

[Kurt S]

No, that will not be included in the reports. And it's not the same as the body # for many years and plants, btw.

[SS427]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: P.J.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I bet that some people are really starting to worry
if these records come out
PJ
</div></div>

I cannot wait to see some of these people squirm and I hope they hang from high places as well if their fraudulent cars can now be proven. Bout time we can prove some of the cars out there. I would like to run this report on about 50 LS6 Chevelles and see if some people get nervous.

[Xplantdad]

Amen! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/headbang.gif

[TimG]

I get these all the time for Corvettes, they are helpful. NCRS also validates paperwork aside from Protect O Plates. Even if I pull a tank sticker off of a car, I send it off for verification. That ties in with the delivering dealer. Remember, if a car is delivered to one dealer and sold by another, this information may conflict. I have a '67 Corvette that was delivered to a dealer in Santa Cruz, CA and sold by a dealer in San Francisco 70 miles away. The Santa Cruz dealer ordered it for the San Francisco dealer and shipped it there when it arrived. Of course, the Santa Cruz dealer and zone are on the tank sticker.
Where this is important is if someone created fake paperwork, a made up build sheet or window sticker should have the delivering dealer on it, if this is different than what shows up from NCRS, there may be an issue.

[Starship]

UPDATE....as an NCRS member with a couple of &quot;steel&quot; Muscle Cars, both of which I had had or known of since new, I was recently asked to submit their VINs for a &quot;test&quot; of the shipping validation program. Happy to report that their results came back positive and matched what I already knew plus the actual build dates. Plans are for the system to be up and running May 1.

[scuncio]

Good to hear. I will be running reports on at least two cars....

[1969l78]

Great!

[70 copo]

Will be running my Z-11, I suspect that it was ultimately delivered to Coca-Cola Corporation. We will see if this report helps with the trail.

[Salvatore]

I am ready also. My Z/28 has a &quot;BY BERGER&quot; emblem on the back so I hope they can help me with that.

[Lynn]

I am kind of the same way. My Z had the dealer emblem removed. Two tiny holes in the tail panel were 4.875 inches apart. I welded up the holes.

I am hoping my car was delivered outside of Oklahoma, and that whatever state that is has old records.

Oklahoma has records going back somewhere before 1965. But, there are a whole block of records that were lost in 1978 when they changed over computer systems. Of course, mine is one of the &quot;lost boys&quot;. They don't even have a record of my brother owning the car.

[olredalert]

----Thanks, Sal! Wish you would hang around here more......Bill S

[chevyman0429]

Yup as soon as their up and running they will be doing both of my 69 ss chevelles. Kinda excited I know it's not a huge step but gets me in direction of where they started out.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I'm in as well, I'll be running the VIN's for the '69 Nova and the '67 Camaro! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

[69LM1]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 67rs/ss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is there anyone with a NICB report and one of these reports? Are they the same? What is the difference if any?

Thanks, Tony </div></div>

I have a rare hard copy of an NICB report. Many are just verbal. I am not allowed to post a pic of it on threat of suit, it was up here at one time.

However, it does have more information spots on it, some filled out and some blank on mine. On mine, I had dealer and zone info, theft history and date filled out.

There IS a horsepower line, but mine was blank on that line. I have only ever seen one, mine, so I a not sure if there are any with that line filled out, but it is on the report.

Rich

[COPO]

I have not seen the horsepower line filled in on an NICB report either, but suspect the horsepower information would be the same as what is typically shown on the MSO (Manufacturers Statement of Origin)

[MosportGreen66]

Gents, just a friendly reminder, this report shows the original ordering dealership, not the selling dealership.

Dan

[69hurstSC]

Is there a reason Impala's aren't part of this release?

[mr 707]

The new information is still going shine the light on alot of fake P-O-Ps and ordering forms, and oven cooked tank stickers.

[mssl72]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 69hurstSC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is there a reason Impala's aren't part of this release? </div></div>

I with you on that! I would love to see some full sized stuff eventually become available.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mssl72</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 69hurstSC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is there a reason Impala's aren't part of this release? </div></div>

I with you on that! I would love to see some full sized stuff eventually become available. </div></div>

A buddy cleaned out an old dealership in the Scranton, PA area about 15-20 years ago and also grabbed their invoices. Amongst the stacks of invoices were several Impala/Caprices. Is there a particular registry where we could check the VIN's from these invoices against existing cars? Not exactly an NCRS effort, but we've been able to match 2 owners with their original paperwork over the years, one was the owner of a '54 Corvette!

[Verne_Frantz]

Marlin,
I have a couple thousand VINs on record between 58 &amp; 64. If you want to forward them to me, I'll be happy to see if I can link any to a current owner.

Verne <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/flag.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Ok, most are later than '64, but will round them up tonight when I get home.

[Don_Lightfoot]

As of today I notice the NCRS documents availability has been shifted from mid April to May 1.

[TAR6569]

Marlin,

I have a large fullsize Chevy database covering the years 64-70 and can check those years for you. I also collect the fullsize paperwork and would buy/trade for any fullsize stuff you have.

Warren

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Ok, I'll dig them out tonight and send you guys the VIN's. My buddy still has the actual hard copies of the invoices that he puts a price on if/when he finds a connection....

[TAR6569]

can i get scan/copies for my research?

[70 copo]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TAR6569</div><div class="ubbcode-body">can i get scan/copies for my research? </div></div>


Warren,

Provide the VIN# and pay the fee per VIN# and you will be in business. You can ask them if they will grant you a research discount perhaps for portions of the data that you need?

[TAR6569]

I was referring to the dealer invoices Marlin and his friend have, not the shipping records.

[mssl72]

Well, if anybody runs across any 1966 Caprice invoices, I'd love to see if anything matches my car.
Shoot me a PM if ya do.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TAR6569</div><div class="ubbcode-body">can i get scan/copies for my research? </div></div>

If it was up to me - sure, but these are not mine. The guy who owns the invoices is a parts/info guru and sells the invoices to the car owner(s).

I'll start a new thread on this, as I have some Impala questions after looking over the info....