Motion Nova ???????

[mike_c]

Hello all, I am a newbie here but a car guy for the last 40 years....I have owned about everything you can imagine and have personally restored hundreds of car for myself and other people... enough about me, but I wanted to at least introduce myself before touching on this very controversial subject...

Recently my cell phone rang and it was a person that I have know for a while, he offered up for sale to me a car that was well know to a lot of you guys and has been all over the internet car blogs for over 10 years... I will tell you all out front it was more about helping a person in desperate need than buying the car.... I had no interest in the car and recently sold off my last muscle car and was taking a break from them...

After a lot of drama and poor weather the vehicle showed up at my shop, keep in mind like all of you I had never seen pictures of the 1968 Nova or any of the paperwork. Well I have it now and have had some time to go thru the research and paperwork and the car...I have talked to several people who are thought to be associated with the car over the years. in my opinion it is still a maybe car...here's why!!!!!

THE LETTER dated 2003 is definitely a maybe letter, the person who signed the letter(from my recent conversation) is an exceptionally nice person that loves to discuss his life and his hobbies and careers, he will not discuss this car or the person that was associated with the car for all those years. It seems that story is pretty intense and one that is best not discussed...As a matter of fact he is the person that recommended this site to me...

THE PEOPLE that were associated with this car in its prior years are older gentlemen and they have memories of the car but some of these memories are definitely clouded by the 45 years that has come and gone since this car was built...

THE RESEARCH that was done is detailed but not put together very well and some is very confusing at best...

THE CAR is a body with some of the accessories that were said to be associated with the cars that were converted and or built by Motion Performance in that time frame, there are key pieces of it missing, the engine and transmission are not present now...There is among some of the paperwork an original build sheet that does confirm the cars original as built by GM configuration...

The FUTURE of the car for now is a trip to the eBay site with a reasonable reserve on the car so I may accomplish my goals:

1. Get my original investment back on the car.

2. Put the car in someone's hands to complete the research & restore it, and once and for all put the subject to rest, it is a very time consuming process that I just don't have the time to complete since I have a business to run that takes a considerable amount of my time up...


My intent is not to open old wounds and or bring up people or sore subjects that may offend anyone....but after doing some quick internet searches I ran into the original string on this site and a lot of you in my opinion were left hanging with no closure, I don't know that I have offered up any closure, but more the next chapter of a story in a car drama that may never be solved for sure....

Mike

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2014/02/full-18340-9516-nova_full_size.jpg

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Sorry, I'm not following... You bought a car with a story, and plan to resell it, so posted this pic in the hopes of....?? <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif Not sure I remember this particular car, maybe give us a little more info or a link to a prior thread?

[mike_c]

The discussion of this car was on this site and many other sites and there was a lot of conversation about it... &quot;motion nova ????&quot; was the post here, the pervious owner had a lot of ties to this site and others that talked about the first 1968 nova done by motion performance, it was thought by many people to be this car. The maybe letter was to my knowledge the first and only one every done on a motion car....

I am not in any way advertising this car for sale or offering it up for sale, I am just passing along the updated version of the story that so many people took a strong interest in, if that makes any sense... I for one read all the post after obtaining the car and thought there were a lot of people that were left hanging and never heard anything more on the car... the car was found and the post were started as far back as 2000..

My only purpose here is to offer up the next chapter of this car up to anyone that may be interested in hearing about it.
Mike

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I understand now, thanks for the pic!

[luzl78]

Is that dan's car?

[427.060]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: luzl78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is that dan's car? </div></div>

That was my first thought

[mike_c]

It was the car that Dan P. owned, now I own it. Mike

[69LM1]

Dan's car that the motion either mechanic or painter, I cant remember which, supposedly remembered? I think many people wanted to see what that person gave to Dan but that never happened.

What type of info did you get about/from Dan on that subject?

I'd like to see more.

Rich

[luzl78]

There is a lot of history in that car!

[mike_c]

Hi Rich,

I was given a lot of research material including the original letter that was written by Joel, I wont post it, since it is more unflattering to Dan, but it is definitely a maybe letter about the car...keep in mind when the letter was done in 2003 there wasn't much if any real research done on the car prior to requesting the car be certified...and the person requesting the information can be a little to passionate about things !!!

I was given a hand written letter from a Herby White of Whites Sunoco, undated and not well put together, who knows when it was done, I was told there is a picture from when he signed it at his nursing home but I don't have it...

I was given contact information on the Painter, I personally talked to the painter great guy with a strong memory of the car and he remembers all the details of doing the paint work, including color change, replacement of vinyl top and who dyed the interior and most importantly who owned the car and who it was done for....

I was given the contact information on the mechanics from motion, I didn't not talk to either of them....

I was given the contact information of the best friend of the original owner, who remembered the car and the owner, but seemed to be distant and later it was confirmed that the original owner may have had a sketchy past since, how does an 18 year old buy and new car and send it straight to a shop and spend several thousand dollars more on the car...

Keep in mind they are not young people and to say the least there memory from 45 years ago were taxed, but by the discussion we had, there was a car and this maybe it... only the true title history from NJ and a confirmation letter from Motion would make it &quot;a for sure car !!!!!!!&quot;

I didn't push any of these people I listened to there stories, I have no dog in the fight the car is what it is, a maybe car, I haven't spent 14 years of my life trying to prove it and wont... on a scale of 1 to 100 with 100 being the least important thing in my life this car ranks 115... Not trying to be mean but there wasn't a ton of money involved in the deal and I was more interested in helping a person in need out... and Dan is surely in a bad place right now...

I neither have the time or the desire to chase down the people and to restore this car at this point in my life...


As for the car, it has some really neat cool stuff what I would call &quot;day 2&quot; items on it, it does have the build sheet and is a well optioned SS car originally...That need a whole lot of love to bring it back to it s former glory, whatever that glory was!!!!


Mike

[bergy]

Thanks for the update Mike - sounds like you're just informing the community that you have purchased the car. All of the other info about the car is apparently unchanged with no further clarity?

[Charley Lillard]

&quot;I was given the contact information of the best friend of the original owner, who remembered the car and the owner, but seemed to be distant and later it was confirmed that the original owner may have had a sketchy past since, how does an 18 year old buy and new car and send it straight to a shop and spend several thousand dollars more on the car...&quot;

The above quote sounds like the story was it was bought at a dealer and then taken to Motion for conversion. Not being a new converted car sold at Baldwin will hurt it's value. With the NCRS coming out with the dealer records soon you will be able to find out where it was sold new.

&quot; and Dan is surely in a bad place right now...&quot;
I hope Dan is OK or will be OK.

[mike_c]

At best the car was a conversion, it was sold new at Wallace Chevrolet and as rumor has it. take directly to motion for a conversion, and it is or was or maybe the one that was discussed in the published book discussing the first car 1968 Nova done by Motion.

As for Da, he is struggling, his home is in foreclosure, he has a final evection order posted and has been order to vacate, he has health issues pertaining to diabetes that has been acting up.

He is currently staying in a house with no heat, can't really get out for food and has no money to support himself.. he has a strong will and a real love for these cars but sometimes he doesn't come across the best to everyone and his love cross's the line sometimes to stocking people....

I have tried very hard to help him as best as I can but he has to take the needed steps to make things better, I truly think he thought this car was his savior and he held it way to high in that esteem.. its great to love the cars but other things
in life are way more important, for a long time now he has wished that he would leave this life, I think he struggles from other issues that no one really knows of and I think once he lost his connection to his business and the car guy community he has given up on things...


Mike

[bergy]

Very sad about Dan - let's put him on the prayer list guys.

[69LM1]

Will do (Dan on the prayer list) and thanks for the updates and helping a fellow car guy out Mike. Even in disagreement, we all have that in common.

I've got a Camaro in much the same state as this Nova, only after being paid Joel gave a &quot;maybe&quot; on the car and then refused to give any paperwork at all. I repeatedly requested something in writing, even a no. I wonder if Dan's issues and a &quot;maybe&quot; had anything to do with that no paperwork policy from Joel on a maybe Car?

It sure would be great if the NCRS records were available for this car and showed the dealer. Someone probably has pulled a NICB at some point, which would at least (somewhat) confirm the dealer?

Rich

[mike_c]

My understanding is that Kevin S ran a report that confirmed the car came from Wallace Chevrolet, the original owners best friend also confirmed the car came from there but couldn't remember if it was a dealer to Baldwin Chevrolet or if the owner bought it as Wallace and then sent it to Motion performance. My understanding from a close friend who is involved with NCRS is the only thing they will be releasing is shipper which will only tell you the original dealer slated to have the car and not the were it ended up information.

[leach]

Thanks so much for selling me this 1968 Nova I will take my time research it since I have the time the deposit went through to you in pay pal we will be talking glad to help you and talk with you about this car and others.

[DBelk]

I'm lost? Did the car sell in this thread, again? From Dan to MikeC to leach now?

[luzl78]

Yes. It sold again. Like I said before, there is a lot of history to this car that will show it was a motion car!

[twertsy]

Never came up on eBay.........?

[luzl78]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: twertsy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Never came up on eBay.........? </div></div>barry bought it quick before it went to ebay. He knows what it is.

[69LM1]

Wow..... great that Mike helped Dan, and the next owner is excited. Now that there is a degree of seperation between personalities, maybe some headway can be made in determining providence.

Congrats to all involved.....

Rich

[mike_c]

It was never my intension to use this forum to sell the car, I did go in today and become a paying member, since the car did sold as a direct result of someone contacting me about this forum, if anyone feels I should make more of a contribution let me know and I will gladly do that.

I did not search out a buyer and I was contacted by several members that reached out to me trying to buy the car. I did not profit form the transaction, as a matter of fact I lost some money on the sale. If I would have any made any profit I would sent it straight to Dan.

I am not looking for any drama and it certainly seems that drama follows this car...and I truly apologize if anyone of you guys are offend by the events of this forum post.

What I would like to see from this, is the people that consider Dan a friend or a least a fellow human in need, please reach out to him and offer up your kind words and thoughts and prayers, he could surly use them right now...

Drop him a note or card thru snail mail he has no access to the internet and only has a home number and isn't answering it much these days...let him know we all still care about each other more than the cars that bring back a few of our youth memories....

[mike_c]

BTW:
Dan isn't the happiest with me right now. He is upset that I don't have the strong sense of commitment to the car and willing to make it a life long project to figure it out, what made it worse is the fact that I decided not to restore the car and I am going to pass the car along to someone else...

Having said that I have tried and tried to figure out a way to help him more than I have...I just don't have an answer.

What my suggestion would be is to drop Dan a note to his home address with maybe a card with a small gift...

From what I have seen of this site, there seems to be some really great people that look out for each other, maybe you could do a post and see if there is anyone that would like to drop him a card or letter of encouragement to help his spirit...

This way any correspondence or gift would go straight to him and he would have to see human kindness for what it is, just that !!!!!

What are your thought on that???

anyone wanting or needing his home contact information let me know.....

[jasonL78]

As a 68 Nova owner who has been trying to educate people just how different and unique the 68 nova's are for the past 10 years, I hope this 68 Nova gets the publicity that it deserves.

For all the people wondering how different and unique the 68 Nova is. Try finding a <span style="text-decoration: underline">documented</span>:
<span style="font-weight: bold">L30</span>(only <span style="text-decoration: underline">2483 </span>built)
<span style="font-weight: bold">L34</span>(only <span style="text-decoration: underline">234</span> built)
<span style="font-weight: bold">L48</span>(only <span style="text-decoration: underline">4670</span> built)
<span style="font-weight: bold">L78</span>(only <span style="text-decoration: underline">667</span> and 50 were copo cars)
<span style="font-weight: bold">L79</span>(0nly <span style="text-decoration: underline">1274</span> built)

Now try to find the only 1968 Nova converted at motion. Hats off to Dan for holding onto this car for 12 years. Hopefully Dan gets the credit for finding the car and doing all the leg work. Only time will tell......

[PxTx]

I've seen the car. It may have been to Motion for work. It think you have a long reach from being a car with some mods at the shop to the lable/title of being the 1st Motion Nova L88 build. I'm not sure how Dan made that leap but that is when I started to question the data being presented.

We are to beleive a young spanish speaking man bought a NEW car which had to be sourced from another dealer only to have a color change as well as the interior dyed. I've never known anyone to be that foolish on new car purchase, but that is only the beginning of the additional money spent on the car. Then they also took that new small block out and only have a full L88 (not a shortblock) swapped in. The story seems to spin a list of several other key mods to create a dream Nova street racer. I struggle to beleive these key steps occured when this car was new. I hope we can discover some solid proof of the car's history. Good luck to the new owner!

[Salvatore]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bergy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Very sad about Dan - let's put him on the prayer list guys.</div></div>

Yes Bruce. That has been done

Dan also still has another 68 he wants to sell. I think he still has it. He is a walking encyclopedia on old drag racing and where most of these NY,NJ and eastern US cars came from. He rubbed elbows with many big time drag racers in the NED-1 area for a long time and has located many COPO's and other race cars of the era.

[starrider]

Mike, could you give (us?) Dans address. I would like to help him out. From what i personally know of him, it has never been about the almighty dollar but his has been for his love of the cars. Maybe others could help too! God knows, i dont think any of us would want to be where Dan is right now.

[mike_c]

I wont post his info in open forum, but any9one wanting to reach out send ne a PM and I will send it to you.. Mike

[PeteLeathersac]

Cars suck.
Prayers and best wishes to Dan!

~ Pete

[DW31S]

I don't know Dan, but I have heard about this car and read most of the stuff associated with it. I have no trouble believing that an 18 year old kid would/could do what is reported to have happened. Who here knows the &quot;kid's&quot; background? Or his father's? Maybe they had a cash-type business and liked fast and unique cars. Look, I've been in the car business for a LONG (maybe too long) time, and I STILL see stuff that doesn't make sense. Talk to some of the old-timers and you will see my point. If you REALLY want to see/read about some unbelievable stuff, try reading about NHRA Stocker guys from the same time frame as this Nova. It will make your head spin!!! So, I say &quot;Hats off&quot; to the new owner; I don't know how much the car changed hands for and it sounds like some here had the opportunity to take the &quot;gamble&quot;. I hope the story surrounding this car does come to light, or closure, or whatever the truth really is. I kinda think there is more to it than what Joel Rosen was willing to share with Dan; that is merely my take on what I've read. I am as curious as anyone here.......

[leach]

Got car delivered to secure area and got title and other paperwork on the car. The 1968 427 converted from small block Nova SS matches up to alot of what people have said who worked on the car when it was bought new by Fredy Calas at Wallace Chevrolet and then took to Motion to have it converted to 427 L88 car for street racing. People who worked on the car when it was converted in different aspects of the transformation have said how Fredy did not like when the car was Green in color with the vinyl top a different color because the cowl tag on car V-6 color on paint is Sequoia Green and I can't find on any site what the 6 comes up to be for vinyl roof color since most sites only show 4 colors for vinyl roof. the interior The interior was 745 Gold color. So after it was done with the original color and converted and motion stripe put on car Fredy had it painted black with no stripe so people would not know what was in the car for street racing. The people who did that also dyied the gold interior black and explained how there were certain markings on the jams of the doors on the original paint from the factory that are still there along with alot of other tell tale signs of the conversion on this car. There is still overspray under the cowl cover above firewall from the white motion stripe. I have included original title from the 3rd owner who bought the car in 1975 and kept it stored at his house until it was bought in around 2000. There is a letter from Herbie White who operated a Sunoco gas station and serviced and worked on this car and other Motion cars in that area for strret racing documenting this car. It was White's Sunoco in New Jersey. I also put broad cast sheet on here of the car. Alot of pictures were taken when car delivered documenting alot of things on the car so that nothing was messed with showning alot of signs of the conversion big block towers, 5 holes where screws held the side pipes in place, Mallory on the firewall, electric fuel pump mounted in the back of car, still had regular brake pedal but the disk brakes were added at beginning for conversion, tow tabs still in place with one bolt and welded on from back then along with numerous other tell tale signs. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2014/02/full-3814-9853-tn_1968_converted_nova.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2014/02/full-3814-9854-broad_cast_sheet.jpg

[bergy]

Is there any &quot;new&quot; information - other then Dan's research? Maybe Joel added any info?

[jasonL78]

I would like to see a picture of the 5 holes under the rocker. Where the side pipes were mounted. 1968 novas had rocker curtains and these have the same number of holes to mount them.

I would also think there should be another hole in the back of the rocker where the exhaust pipe would have been mounted. Aren't the 5 holes you are referring too for the cover or shield for the exhaust pipe that follows the rocker? This is assuming they would have used the 65-67 corvette side pipes?

[leach]

Here are pictures of the 427 COPO towers that have been on the car forever since conversion stickers still in place 3rd owner who bought the car in 1975 on the title never messed with anything after using the car for so many years then put in his barn to store it until it was sold in 2000 title never got changed. Also picture of the cowl tag on the car. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2014/02/full-3814-9863-tn_copo_427_towers_1.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2014/02/full-3814-9864-tn_copo_427_towers_2.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2014/02/full-3814-9865-tn_cowl_tag.jpg

[luzl78]

Here come the details!!!

[leach]

I just talked to the 3rd owner on the phone that bought the car in 1975 he said he was 18 at the time. So when he bought the car he started to strip the black paint to repaint it and took the vinyl top off the car. He said that when he started taking the black paint off he found the rap around Motion stripe in the back and up over the roof in front of vinyl roof and he is going to get me notarized letter from him on that affect and that the car had original rear with 456 posi in it at that time and the one side of rear broke loose and they welded the rear up but it was never right and would always pull more to the right after that and he got different rear which is in the car now. As soon as I get letter from him I will post it minus his name and address. He also said the trunk lid had 3 holes in it when he started to strip paint for repainting car and more of white paint going up trunk lid.

[leach]

Here are pictures of holes for side pipes from back then not the holes for side rocker moldings which you can see moldings pictures to show they in their holes. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2014/02/full-3814-9866-tn_holes_side_pipes_1.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2014/02/full-3814-9867-tn_side_pipe_holes_2.jpg

[scott s]

Why would a 18 year old buy a car in a color that he didn,t even like ,change the interior ,change the drivetrain ,then repaint it? WAS HE THE PRINCE OF ARABIA OR SOMETHING??? he could have went straight to motion ordered the car he wanted and spent less $$$$ ....This story just dosent make any sense.....

[jasonL78]

I for one hope this is the 68 motion car. But the pictures you are posting are not giving all the detail's, part numbers etc,etc. I was wrong saying the side curtains mount with 5 holes its actually 7. I realize these would have to be removed to mount corvette side pipes and modified to fit the nova rocker. I'm not a corvette guy but do the side pipe covers bolt up from the bottom? Just saying....

Here are rocker curtain holes from my 68.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d189/jasonchale/rocker_zpsf733e6c3.png (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/jasonchale/media/rocker_zpsf733e6c3.png.html)

[COPO]

The car seems to have some typical Motion modifications which were common back in the day and emulated by many enthusiasts at the time. Motion also had a robust mail order business and since the parts were not Motion specific, could have been purchased at a local speed shop or a Chevrolet dealer such as mid-year corvette side exhausts.

Some of the details about the actions of the 18-year owner don't seem very logical, but then again, not too many teenagers are terribly strategic or pragmatic in their thinking. It is often about instant gratification, so if the funds were available anything is possible.

Hopefully with the new ownership, some more concrete details will emerge about the car and a link to the Motion shop will be found. Regardless of the outcome, the car seems to have an interesting history and should be a good project to enjoy.

Best of luck.

[leach]

Everywhere I check to decode the cowl tag for this car V-6 on the cowl tag and the broadcast sheet. The V comes up as sequoia green but can't find a number 6 for the vinyl top anywhere. All the decode sites show 1-white vinyl top 2-black vinyl top 3-green vinyl top 4-blue vinyl top. Any help out there on this? 745 interior gold color

[JoeC]

1968 Chevelle list shows a v-top 6 code as white, Chevy II may have used the same

The info Dan said about the style of the stripe and spoiler holes may have been for the big Motion spoiler sounded to me like they were Motion items used after 1968.

[leach]

No number 1 for Nova was white.

[leach]

Talked to paint shop that worked on car back then they said that it was a gold vinyl top that would make sense probably since it has number 6 to go along along with the gold interior.

[leach]

Could not find any gold color anywhere at Nova parts places for Vinyl Top only other color could find was Buckskin do you think that is what guy meant?

[olredalert]

----Jason,,, All the corvette factory side pipe covers I know of screw on from the side........Bill S

Mike C. I hope you mailed Dan a card after you sold his pride and joy!:)

As for Dan I have talked to him many many times with this car, And helped him locate a lot of family members and addresses of the original owner.
Unfortunately I had a falling out with Dan about 2 years ago. I truly hope the best for the man!

Ok as for this car now that Dan does not own it. It will become documented. I will bet the dog on it. ( he barks to much).
That is the bad part about these motion cars IMO, has happened to many times.

[AutoInsane]

How can you find out who the original owner was??

I have a program that's linked into most of the record rooms in the county courthouses in PA &amp; NJ. Also spent some time at court houses for Dan researching.
He had some previous owners names and I was able to go from there.

I'm just curious about this car now that its been brought up. Has Joel ever said its definitely Not a motion car or conversion.
I know a few people have spoken with Joel about this car. I know he has his issues with Dan, but I have never heard anyone say JR said it is Not a motion car. And hey I'm just saying maybe that leaves the door open for a owner down the road that finds proper Docs to have it certified.

[luzl78]

Bit by bit the details will come forth.

I believe so, but I know a lot of people over the years have talked to JR about this car. I'm just curious if he has ever said a definite NO to anyone about this car.

[luzl78]

Dan rubbed him wrong somehow and if it is the first 68 motion nova he was not gonna let Dan have the documentation for a $100,000-150,000 rare Motion.

[Charley Lillard]

What makes the car worth 100-150K ? It sounds like a non Baldwin car that was brought to Motion after the fact. Are any after the fact cars bringing that kind of money ?

[mike_c]

Ok here's my 2 cents worth, I did speak to Joel, he made it clear he had no interest in discussing the car or the person that owned it prior to me in any way shape or form. He also made it clear that everything he had heard prior to me calling on the car and what he had for records NO WAY tied the car to Motion performance. he further stated that he would NEVER be involved with anything concerning this car... BTW that information was given to Barry prior to him agreeing to purchase the car from me.

a lot of the information I was given concerning the car didn't match what I saw in person once receiving the car....

I tried a NOS set of corvette side pipe covers on to see if they any way matched the holes in the rockers, there was no way to make them match but the holes do match the factory rocker molding which by the way do not have any other holes drilled in them.

The brake booster and master cylinder numbers and front disc brake parts came back to a 1969 Chevelle and from what I have been told they would have been installed on a car not counter parts based on all the numbers, that also did not match the story I was given about the brake system being converted when new...

There was something under the cowl panel that I couldn't tell for sure what it was, I had a body man with 30 years experience that restores classics look at it too. he too could not tell for sure, he did say it could be very old compound or over spray. his opinion was the only way to tell for sure would be to have a lab test it, but compound could also have signs of old pain in it too...there were no other signs of any strip or much else since all was long gone and parts left were old and rusty!!!

I was told by two separate employees of the NJ DMV on phone conversations that they did have the information in research area for vehicles of this age, so I did send a request with funds to NJ to see if they could give me registration history since there is a loop hole in there system that will allow them to release that information if it is for research only use.

I received a response from them TODAY that stated they had NO HISTORY on this vehicles vin number., so I assumption after today is that something's don't add up about it.

Its also very funny that Dan called me today stating he is working with Barry to get the car certified, and he got very mad and hung up when I told him what both JOEL, NJ DNV stated and that Barry said Dan was stalking him now during my last conversation with him a couple of weeks ago..

I don't think there would be any way to tell for sure, but it is a body with some parts, none of which could be proven to be original to the car since Dan was buying up old B/M parts so who would know for sure what was with the car and what wasn't. That being said the car is Missing the Engine, Trans., Rear end and will need a lot and I mean a lot of parts replaced to restore the car to a show level. As for the value of the car or body, its only worth what someone will pay for it on any given day!!!

keep in mind the Original person thought to own have owned the car is dead, the friends and people associated with the cars are 45 years older now with fading memories... there stories change on every conversation that anyone has with them, my opinion is simple we all chase the brass ring and we all want the next barn find to be a HOME RUN !!!! seldom are they ever !!! the real collectible cars are original fully documented number matching cars that have been professionally over restored to a concourse level that makes it hard for the owner to get his investment back in this day and age....enjoy them for what they are, a piece of our history and childhood that bring back good memories...

why do we all have to fight argue and get over on each other to end up with a &quot;MAYBE&quot; car. I bought it to help out a friend in need, got the car and realized it was to much a project for this time in my life, so I sold it to the first person that wanted it for a LOSS of $500.00

and the story goes on..............................

[Verne_Frantz]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mike_c</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hello all, I am a newbie here but a car guy for the last 40 years....I have owned about everything you can imagine <span style="font-weight: bold">and have personally restored hundreds of car for myself and other people</span>... </div></div>

This is one thing that struck me about this thread from the first post. Lets call <span style="font-style: italic">hundreds</span> just 200, since its more than 100 hundred. Over 40 years, that's 5 cars a year. Does anyone sense a problem with that? <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/bs.gif

Verne <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif

Wow Mike I seems Dan might have pushed a few buttons with you today. ( I know how that can be) Why not say all these things about the car and the negativity towards Dan when you owned the car? Just seems to me that you might be a little bit bitter today and upset with him?


I still believe in the right Hands this car is documented.

[Ironarms]

Just saw Dan on the local news, Barricaded himself in his home, police talked him out peacefully, evicted from his foreclosed home. Feel bad for the guy... must be in a really tough spot right now .

[Charley Lillard]

Hopefully someone can get him some needed help.

[Ironarms]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ironarms</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just saw Dan on the local news, Barricaded himself in his home, police talked him out peacefully, evicted from his foreclosed home. Feel bad for the guy... must be in a really tough spot right now . </div></div>

Link if interested
http://www.wfmz.com/news/news-regional-s...-house/24828580 (http://www.wfmz.com/news/news-regional-southeasternpa/Deputies-spend-hours-trying-to-evict-man-from-Buck-Co-house/24828580)

[Xplantdad]

That is too bad. I hope he gets the help he needs...

[69LM1]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hopefully someone can get him some needed help. </div></div>

+1.......

Sucks to lose a lifetime investment over 12k. At least the cops seemed cool about it. They could have easily charged him.



Rich

[L78M22Rag]

What sort of help do you suppose Dan needs?

He only needed 12k? I would think he could have sold his other nova. Just crazy seeing him on that Video.

[Ironarms]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JD502</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He only needed 12k? I would think he could have sold his other nova. Just crazy seeing him on that Video. </div></div>
guess that kind of confuses me also, he had a couple cars to sell , not sure why he didn't try to sell them before... last i talked to him a couple weeks ago his L78 was till for sale

[mike_c]

Dan knew for a long time they were coming and he had a considerable time to leave the property and just didn't want to believe they could make him leave !!!

Little more to that story, he was over 12k behind on his mortgage and balance owed was a lot higher, over 100k he had a home equity loan that he hadn't made payments on in a very very long time. I personally talked in great details to him about that since my business is the foreclosure industry, tried hard to help him...he was so unset with the system he didn't want the help.

he had many offers on the cars but for every reason you can imagine he wouldn't sell them !!!

He is not penny less he has had several offers of places to stay and he received a considerable settlement check on the sheriff sale of the house and he has other funds including the money he got from selling this car...

He is just so angry that he wont go on in life and open up the next chapter, he has relatives wanting him to go south and they offered him a place to live and a most certainly a job when he gets there...

Dan is looking for sympathy and wants everyone to think he is the victim but sometimes we are only the victims of our own doing !!!!

He is just plan angry with everyone that doesn't see life through his eyes !!!

He has to want help and be wining to make some changes for anyone to be able to help him !!!

[PeteLeathersac]

Sorry to read this and let's hope things improve for the man from here on.
What of the cars, are they secure somewhere and what does he still have and want to sell?
Prayers and best wishes w/ everything Dan!
<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif
~ Pete

He is talking to someone on this thread, He called me on Monday to tell me he was sorry for the way he acted in the past.
I was very shocked to say the least. I did ask him about the cars. Seems he only has 1 L78 car left for sale. I have no idea where it is or if it is safe. Just hope it wasn't in the garage of that house. Hope it all works out for him!!

[WILMASBOYL78]

I don't have a horse in this race, but, I do feel too much is being posted about Dan's personal affairs...good/bad/or otherwise. I would like to think we could have more positive things to talk about than some other guys misfortune.

wilma

[earntaz]

Couldn't agree more ...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WILMASBOYL78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't have a horse in this race, but, I do feel too much is being posted about Dan's personal affairs...good/bad/or otherwise. I would like to think we could have more positive things to talk about than some other guys misfortune.

wilma </div></div>


I apologize if I offended anyone or said something out of line. Was not my intent!!

[69LM1]

I talked to Dan today, he's in pretty good spirits considering. He has taken this chance to reconcile with his Mom, so that is one thing good in all of this that he asked me to pass on to you guys.

Sounds like from his perspective that the news station is really looking into this. His house was sold for about 1/3 of it's worth based on what he bought it for. He will not get much of his investment back at all.

The new owner of the house tried to keep his L78 though. Basically, the bank/police state that everything on the property belongs to the new owner. Dan was turned out into the street with basically the clothes on his back.

Keep him in your prayers. He asked me to thank you guys for the well wishes.

Rich

[luzl78]

Please tell me he got his car back!

[Mr70]

I'll bet he won't/didn't.
He should've hid it off the property alooooooooong time ago.

[luzl78]

That should be seperate property. I would be insanely flipping out if not.

[69LM1]

Can't confirm or deny anything. But there are two black rubber burnout strips in front of his old house from last night, and the screws the new owner used to bolt the garage door shut are somehow broken off <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif . The new owner was intent that the Nova now belonged to him. However, none of the paperwork (title, etc) was in the house.

They would not even allow him to take the food from his pantry.......

No doubt his being behind could have been dealt with better by Dan, but what happened to all of those short sale and homeowner bailout packages that minorities get? Section 8 now pays up to $2,200.00/mo for someone to BUY a house.

Like I said, at least he is talking with his family now, which is a great outcome.

Rich

[Ironarms]

Hope everything turns out for the best for him.... really hope he gets his belongings back including his car ...

[leach]

Two pictures of the car taken today. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2014/03/full-3814-10039-1968_motion_nova.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2014/03/full-3814-10040-1968_mp_nova.jpg

[Schonyenko2]

I really like an L88 hood on a Nova. What are your plans for the car?

[leach]

Thanks to Wayne from NNNOVA and Scott from Nova Resource got info on the Cowl Tag and Broad Cast sheet and the Chrome Custom badge on dash.

[Charley Lillard]

<a href="http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pic...va_custom" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pic...va_custom (http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2014/03/full-23-10112-cowl_tag_help_1968_nova_custom)</a>

[luzl78]

Charley, the pic won't go through.

[Xplantdad]

Email the picture to me and I will post....

[Xplantdad]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Xplantdad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Email the picture to me and I will post.... </div></div>

[Pulnaway]

Can't confirm or deny anything. But there are two black rubber burnout strips in front of his old house from last night, and the screws the new owner used to bolt the garage door shut are somehow broken off <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif . The new owner was intent that the Nova now belonged to him. However, none of the paperwork (title, etc) was in the house.



I dont know Dan, but this pleases me.

[daverd]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pulnaway</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can't confirm or deny anything. But there are two black rubber burnout strips in front of his old house from last night, and the screws the new owner used to bolt the garage door shut are somehow broken off <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif . The new owner was intent that the Nova now belonged to him. However, none of the paperwork (title, etc) was in the house.



I dont know Dan, but this pleases me.
I certainly hope. He got his car out of the garage ......
Best wishes to Dan..


</div></div>

[leach]

Here is letter I got from Fredy Calas best friend who raced with him all the time I have blocked out his address so I do not get him mad. I also have 2 notarized letters coming from the paint shop that had the car delivered to them from Motion Performance when he did not like the way it was done first will post them when I get them.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2014/03/full-3814-10523-ollie_envelope.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2014/03/full-3814-10524-ollie_letter.jpg

[luzl78]

And so it begins again! Hope the car is proven to be motion prepared.

[njsteve]

I know where that White Castle in Newark is...You gotta bring some big guns nowadays to hang out there. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/no.gif

(and yes I mean actual guns) <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif

[Charley Lillard]

How did he remember the color was called Sequoia Green ?

[PeteLeathersac]

Wow Motion parts list also cool stories, are there any period pics of the car?
Looking forward to what else you come up with also hope Wallace is the dealer result from the new NCRS service!
<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif
~ Pete

[leach]

Here are the two hand sealed notarized letters from Dan Maglio who was related to the owner and was working at Battaglia Auto Body when the car was brought to them from Motion Performance by Richie Brown. One was done for Mike Conliff other for me. Blacked out addresses to protect them. One more notarized letter coming. Having trouble adding one from Mike too big.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2014/04/full-3814-10563-dan_maglio_letter_0001.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2014/04/full-3814-10564-dan_maglio_envelope.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2014/04/full-3814-10565-tn_battaglia_auto_body_letter. (http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2014/04/full-3814-10565-tn_battaglia_auto_body_letter)

[Xplantdad]

Here's the other one. Barry asked for my help... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2014/04/full-1805-10570-tn_battagliaautobodyletter.jpg

[bergy]

Great research Barry - it is awkward though that the attesters are including the VIN of the car. How can anyone recall the VIN from 40+ years ago? Also, Dan says that it was a &quot;brand new vehicle&quot; - in January of 1969?

Don't get me wrong - I love the research &amp; believe that you are onto something here. Just need to try to explain the data as it is revealed.

Keep it up - fascinating!

[chevyman0429]

Him remembering the vin was the first thing that came to my mind!

[bergy]

Also - the notary stamp. In PA they don't get to hand write in the year of expiration. Maybe different in other states?

[leach]

3rd owner that bought the car in Nov. 13, 1975 and was still titled in his name when I got the car.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2014/04/full-3814-10599-cook.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2014/04/full-3814-10601-cook_envelope.jpg

[leach]

I can tell you for a fact that New York notary people writes in the expiration on the ones they do and the ones from New Jersey came in the mail that way also so they must be able to do the same.

[njsteve]

Remembering VINs as being suspicious?

I can recite all the VINs from all my Mopars from the past 40 years off the top of my head. (Yes, I have that Rain Man syndrome). So I think you are grasping when you fault a previous owner for remembering a VIN number from a memorable (to him) old car.

As for my anniversary date, or my wife's age or birthday????...well that's another topic. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif

As for other people involved in the car's history, (painters, etc,) I wouldn't think there would be a problem with the requestor of the info giving the interviewee the VIN number just in case that person had some documentation or invoices to compare it to.

[leach]

(Bergy you say something about the car not being new in Jan. 1969) The car came into Wallace 1st week July then after Fredy got the car and got around to getting ready to have enough money to have Motion do Phase III on the car most likely could of been Oct.-Nov. then after not liking what they did to get it resolved and have it taken to Body shop to correct the issues the car would of been kept in the garage like as new when he bought it just as fresh a car by time it went there most likely. Talked to couple people who worked at Motion past couple days and that car is stuck in their minds they say because of the unusual color that 1968 was with the Green paint, light vinyl top and gold interior that was couple different shades of gold. The one worker Buddy Gromis said most likely he was the one that welded the Hurst shifter to have it fit the console right and put the one bolt in the tow tabs then welded them to the frame rails below the bumper in the front. I talked to him yesterday afternoon.

[scott s]

wow most painters(by trade) i knew back in the day especially sniffin all those fumes could,nt remember there name by the end of the week.. After 45 yrs since he did the job and gotta be 70 yrs old he still remembers the car???(he must have gotten lucky in the back seat or something?)

[luzl78]

Anybody have any updates on how Dan is doing?

[GTO_DON]

I've talked to Barry on occasion and he seems like a straight up guy and I certainly mean no disrespect saying this but to be honest these letters seem suspicious to me. I find it almost impossible that all 3 people from different walks of life all MISSPELLED DISK BRAKES WITH A K and that a guy would remember things like correct paint names and vin numbers after 30 years but I guess never say never. I hope this car does prove to be what it supposedly said to be but I don't think these letters are helping the cause. They all seem to be coerced to say the least. All this talk about 427 towers and the term copo was never even used back in the day. I live right next to Cornwall Heights and I don't ever remember see that car race and I was THERE at all the street races back in the day. Again that don't mean it wasn't there. I'm just saying I don't remember such a rare car. I hope people aren't just trying to help Barry validate the car because I don't think they are helping at all. JMHO

[leach]

Picture of door jam with the yellow brush marks still on the original green paint and tags off the front heavy duty springs. Tow tabs on the frame of the car one bolt welded on. I can let anyone look at the letters that came in the mail from the different people folded in the different envelopes notarized they in my safe nothing phony about them.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2014/04/full-3814-10615-novas_017.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2014/04/full-3814-10616-novas_018.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2014/04/full-3814-10617-door_markings.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2014/04/full-3814-10619-heavy_duty_spring_tags.jpg

[PxTx]

Those tow tabs to me seem to be NMW TB-24 ( 55-56 Chevy) adapted to a Nova.

[GTO_DON]

If Ronald Cook wrote that letter and sent it from croydon pa which is right down the street from me by the way then why is it notorized up in NY?? Why is the woman's signature shaky just like yours is? I can tell you that PA notary uses a stamp that presses the paper and is NOT a ink stamp with no signature. Also why does all the letters seem to have the SAME horrible hand writing addressing them to you. None of these guys have decent hand writing????. One guy can spell Seqoiua Green but can't spell disc brakes. Another guy remembers the vin number after 30 years and another guy remembers sanding down the paint and finding motion stripes. Everybody that owned it seems to know how rare of a car it was but NOT one took care of it and let it get into the horrible shape it's in.I can tell you most guys my age down here in Philly didn't even know what motion stripes looked like at that time. Hell, there was a couple copo chevelle and camaro running around and we did not call them copos.so I can't see why that guy would know all the correct terminology..I'm going to contact Ronald this weekend and talk to him in person to pick his brain about this car.I am removing myself from this conversation after this and I hope this does not turn out to be fake. But these letters to Me seem very suspicious. Something is not right here. I think your going to need better documents to change this car from a 7000 dollar car to a 100+ car to be honest.

[bergy]

Barry - please don't feel like people are against you or against your car. This site is a great place to get feedback. I've run this gauntlet on a couple of occasions with cars in my collection, and afterward I've been a lot more knowledgeable for having stuck with the process. IMO - there's nothing wrong with interviewing people who have historical information about your car and writing down the details of the conversation yourself in letter form for their notarized signature. I do this myself and always tell the individual to make any corrections necessary (initial and date the corrections) before having it notarized. FYI, I've never gotten a notarized letter back that hasn't had a few corrections/modifications. Notably, Bob Shaffer (Ewing Chevrolet High Performance Manager in '69 model year)certified the options that he ordered on one of my COPOs and added many great comments &amp; details.
It looks like a lot of folks believe in your car. Also a lot of skeptics. For the car's sake - just keep going back through all of the comments and honestly ask yourself if you've adequately addressed the concerns. Just my 2 cents!

[leach]

Both Dan Maglio and Ollie Jensen who wrote those letters to me are older than me if you want to know about shaky hand writing.

[Salvatore]

They may be old but look like they have amazing memories. Amazing!

[leach]

Gave GTO-Don R. Cooks address so he can go talk to him this weekend.

[DBelk]

Barry, did you write up the letters and have those people sign them &quot;in agreement?&quot; That would explain the in-depth terminology concerning options/ colors, etc. IMO. Not knocking you or the car as anyone would want to see a real Motion car surface of any kind, especially a Nova.

[leach]

The one from Mike Conliff he talked to the guy in depth from the paint shop and got everything that the guy knew about the car on the phone without putting words in his mouth and everything is on tape on the phone I have CD-R of the conversations and then he typed it up sent it to the painter and he kept it there and would not do anything with that one until I contacted him and talked with him the same way asking him what he knew about the car going back and back over what he knew and me taking notes and getting things down correct so that he would be ok with what I sent to him. Finally got what he liked and sent it to him and he called me one day said he took it to his bank got it notarized and he told me that he still had what Mike sent him there and he did not like the part where he had late 1968 in his and he crossed off the 8 in 1968 and put the 9 and Jan. there and he told me that he would send me that one notarized also. He crossed off one thing on mine where it said certain color vinyl top which he thought was a off white instead. The other letter that Ollie Jensen signed for me sent one to him after spending time on the phone with him and he got it in the mail and he called me and started remembering more about where they raced and other things then I sent him another one in the mail and he signed it then sent that to me. The 3rd owner did the same thing with me then sent it to me all done without me offering them anything in return.

[Salvatore]

I think Joel R. is the key to all of this.

[SuperNovaSS]

I imagine Joel is going to want to see the other letters first. Good detective work. If I was a buyer I would rather see the buyer's statements in their own words but can understand the way you are going about it.


Jason

[luzl78]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: [email protected]</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think Joel R. is the key to all of this. </div></div> I don't know if Joel was doing any wrenching on the cars late 68-early-69 or was just hustling up work as the salesman but if he was involved inside the shop I'm sure he would of remembered the color combination of this nova and especially if it was the first 68, even if he does not have any vin documentation or work orders. I'm hoping it is real. I love the history and the search for knowledge of the rare cars.

[DBelk]

This is a quote from MikeC in a previous post on this thread. I was told this more than once as well over the years. Unfortunately it seems this car will never have Joel's blessing apparently, unless something drastically happens or appears.

Registered: 01/28/14
Posts: 11
Loc: ohio
Ok here's my 2 cents worth, I did speak to Joel, he made it clear he had no interest in discussing the car or the person that owned it prior to me in any way shape or form. He also made it clear that everything he had heard prior to me calling on the car and what he had for records NO WAY tied the car to Motion performance. he further stated that he would NEVER be involved with anything concerning this car... BTW that information was given to Barry prior to him agreeing to purchase the car from me.

[luzl78]

I think Dan really made Joel not like him.

[leach]

When I spent time on the phone with Joel right after I bought the car he explained to me that he would not talk about this car as long as Dan was around because of all he went thru with Dan and how he had to get police involved because of what was going on. He never said that he did not know this car and I ran into other people who would not talk to me because of possibly what Dan said to them they would hang up on me because of that. So I just let them be and did not contact them again. Aso couple people that worked at Motion back then said they know certain things about the car but could not get involved because of their dealings with Joel now.

[bergy]

Just for what it's worth regarding the notarized statements... the way that I do it is to take copious notes when talking to the individual. Then send them a letter with self addressed return envelope &amp; $$ for notary fee. On the correspondence I say &quot;this correspondence is to memorialize our conversation of (date). Please feel free to alter/change/add anything that you feel will make the document more accurate. Please do not include anything that you don't clearly recall about the car. When you have completed the changes(initial and date each one)and are prepared to attest to its accuracy - please sign the document in the presence of a notary and return it to me in the enclosed envelope&quot;.

I feel that it's kind of an unreasonable expectation to finish a conversation with a former owner (a conversation that could have been hours long), and then ask the individual to write everything discussed down. So, I do the work for them and then ask the former owner to review it, correct it, and sign it. The document always makes it clear that it was typed up by ME to memorialize our conversation. All hand written notes and attesting signature (of course) are from the former owner.

If the document(s) make it clear up front how they came into being - it doesn't raise more questions then it answers. Hopefully this helps.

Also, for what it's worth to everyone, it's a good idea to have statements like this in the car's file from every old owner. Some of these former owners are getting up there in years (like me). It's good to have their statements live on - for the car's sake.

[njsteve]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bergy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just for what it's worth regarding the notarized statements... the way that I do it is to take copious notes when talking to the individual. Then send them a letter with self addressed return envelope &amp; $$ for notary fee. On the correspondence I say &quot;this correspondence is to memorialize our conversation of (date). Please feel free to alter/change/add anything that you feel will make the document more accurate. Please do not include anything that you don't clearly recall about the car. When you have completed the changes(initial and date each one)and are prepared to attest to its accuracy - please sign the document in the presence of a notary and return it to me in the enclosed envelope&quot;.

I feel that it's kind of an unreasonable expectation to finish a conversation with a former owner (a conversation that could have been hours long), and then ask the individual to write everything discussed down. So, I do the work for them and then ask the former owner to review it, correct it, and sign it. The document always makes it clear that it was typed up by ME to memorialize our conversation. All hand written notes and attesting signature (of course) are from the former owner.

If the document(s) make it clear up front how they came into being - it doesn't raise more questions then it answers. Hopefully this helps.

Also, for what it's worth to everyone, it's a good idea to have statements like this in the car's file from every old owner. Some of these former owners are getting up there in years (like me). It's good to have their statements live on - for the car's sake.

</div></div>

That is similar to what I have done in the past. You send them a typed up synopsis of the interview and ask them to review it, and/or revise it if necessary and then get it notarized and mailed back.

I was extremely lucky with the 73 SD recently, when the original owner, on his own, hand typed a 16-page, single spaced novella of his entire experience with car and then had it notarized and fedexed to me. That was a one-in-a-million situation because he was sooooo overjoyed to know the car was still around and wanted to remain a part of its history.

[iluv69s]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bergy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just for what it's worth regarding the notarized statements... the way that I do it is to take copious notes when talking to the individual. Then send them a letter with self addressed return envelope &amp; $$ for notary fee. On the correspondence I say &quot;this correspondence is to memorialize our conversation of (date). Please feel free to alter/change/add anything that you feel will make the document more accurate. Please do not include anything that you don't clearly recall about the car. When you have completed the changes(initial and date each one)and are prepared to attest to its accuracy - please sign the document in the presence of a notary and return it to me in the enclosed envelope&quot;.

I feel that it's kind of an unreasonable expectation to finish a conversation with a former owner (a conversation that could have been hours long), and then ask the individual to write everything discussed down. So, I do the work for them and then ask the former owner to review it, correct it, and sign it. The document always makes it clear that it was typed up by ME to memorialize our conversation. All hand written notes and attesting signature (of course) are from the former owner.

If the document(s) make it clear up front how they came into being - it doesn't raise more questions then it answers. Hopefully this helps.

Also, for what it's worth to everyone, it's a good idea to have statements like this in the car's file from every old owner. Some of these former owners are getting up there in years (like me). It's good to have their statements live on - for the car's sake.

</div></div>

That is similar to what I have done in the past. You send them a typed up synopsis of the interview and ask them to review it, and/or revise it if necessary and then get it notarized and mailed back.

I was extremely lucky with the 73 SD recently, when the original owner, on his own, hand typed a 16-page, single spaced novella of his entire experience with car and then had it notarized and fedexed to me. That was a one-in-a-million situation because he was sooooo overjoyed to know the car was still around and wanted to remain a part of its history. </div></div>

All great advice..I love those original owner reuniting stories !! ...Only thing I can add is that even better yet is what I did with my 67 Z racecar when I took the original owner out for dinner. With his permission, I taped our whole conversation !..then I went and typed a short synopsis of the highlights and met with him again at a notary the next day before flying back home.

..I was lucky to have a few letters typed up by the owners themselves and notarized for me..although be careful because many years have past and even original owners memories have faded at times..I have a spoiler that was painted for the 70 Old reliable Camaro..the old owner typed a letter explaining its history and how he obtained it. Although the letter and spoiler are authentic, some of the details of the family ties are incorrect.

[69LM1]

I video'd the original owner of the Tin Soldier COPO (with his permission) last year at the Nat's. He also signed the weight box in the trunk and the fan shroud. You can never have too much documentation.

Rich

[robber6910]

Who did Motion Performance use to paint the cars back in the day? With all the auto body/paint shops out on the island, why send it all the way down to South Orange NJ to redo it cause the kid didn't like the color scheme?

[leach]

All I know from talking to Dan from the paint shop is that they did over 10 cars for Motion Performance to paint the Motion stripes on them and this was the first car they did for them in their shop which got their foot in the door since they used numerous shops for their paint jobs and Joel probably shopped around to get best prices. Battaglia Auto Body was well known for their paint jobs on racing cars at Englishtown, N.J. back then. They advertized in Raceway Park News back then. They probably got chosen to work on this car due to Fredy living in Elizabeth, N.J. which was close to South Orange, N.J. He did Carman Rotonda cars and Brooklyn Heavy cars and for Jungle Jim Liberman.

[leach]

Here is ad from Raceway Park http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2014/04/full-3814-10739-battaglia.jpg

[mike_c]

Hi Barry,

You may want to listen to the recording from Tony Battaglia that I made when I talked to him again. He was polar opposite of Danny Magalia. He was very clear when he stated the car was never in his shop and he never painted it. He further stated his shop wasn't even open during the time frame of when this car was (supposedly painted per Dan's 14 year research the car was done in late 1968). He further stated he wasn't in the country he was off to war and his shop didn't open until mid 1969. He also made it very clear he didn't do any B/M cars until 1970'S...

Seems like that information which should be able to be verified by business license records and military records sure may contradict one elderly employees memory..

Tony also made it clear he was still in contact with Joel so without his confirmation of the situation you having a former employee's version of it may not hold much weight...

All in all as we talked about, you will need some hard facts to prove this car is what it is claimed to be, especially since the memory pool has been tainted so much with time and the researchers putting twist on peoples memory to &quot;help them&quot; remember the details. As I mentioned to you, once I talked to the people that Dan gave me the information on, there memory was not exactly the same as the way it was presented to me by Dan.

I sent you all the recorded conversations with everyone that I spoke to about the car other than Joel( I Didn't record that), so you can certainly hear there unsolicited testimony. As far as Joel is concerned, as I told you he clearly stated there is no records to lead him to believe that this car has any ties to Baldwin or Motion at all in his files, his letter to Dan clearly also stated it...

Good luck with the continued research and I hope everything works out to be able to tell the truth about the car, but keep in mind its still only a body with no driveline and some of the parts Dan confirmed were added to the car from his treasure hunts over the years such as the hood...

If your going to put things out there for people to look at you may want to put it all out there including the recording and the letters and notes, this would surely help people to draw an un-bias opinion of what really has gone on with the search for the truth about this car.


Mike

[427Vega]

^^^^^^^^^^^^Brought this thread to a screeching halt. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/blush.gif

[Salvatore]

YEA, how about that. No more info?

[leach]

I was talking with Tony Battaglia last week and he said after I told him that I had notarized letters from Dan Maglio that he would call his other relative Steve who did the dye on the interior and get back to me. He called me and said could I give him Joels phone number so he could talk to him before he told more things. So I gave him Joels number since he asked. He called me back and told me that Joel told him not to talk no more about that car with anyone. That is all he said about it that he was not allowed to give info about the car. Also the other two motion employees I was talking to told me the same thing now that they were not to talk about this car anymore.

[Hemicolt]

I wonder what the punishment would be if these men talked about any car that was worked on at Motion Performance or worked on by an outside company?
Did Joel Rosen make these guys sign a non disclosure agreement when they worked for him or performed work for Motion Performance?

[motionwannabe]

Its really sad the way this ordeal is playing out.Seems to be a ton of speculation either way. Didnt a similar situation happen in the past with another car?????

[Fast67VelleN2O]

Joel wants his $$$$ again. That's why no one's allowed to talk about it.

[Martyn L. Schorr]

I think you are way off-base on this. Joel does not want any money regarding this car. He has stated that he has no records on the car being at Motion, does not remember the car, and wants nothing to do with it. I do not remember it as well.
You can offer him as much money as you like and that story won't change.End of story.
Marty

[Hemicolt]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fast67VelleN2O</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Joel wants his $$$$ again. That's why no one's allowed to talk about it. </div></div>


I'm still fuzzy on this, &quot;can't talk about it&quot;, thing....
What would prevent them from talking about it?
Can anyone clear that up for some of us?

[vettebuilder]

Wow, although I rarely submit any comments on this board, but today I decided to add mine..........I thought it was supposed to be &quot;END OF STORY&quot;???????? How long are people going to pick at it???????????????

[Hemicolt]

So far it looks like 14 pages worth.

[jasonL78]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Martyn L. Schorr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you are way off-base on this. Joel does not want any money regarding this car. He has stated that he has no records on the car being at Motion, does not remember the car, and wants nothing to do with it. I do not remember it as well.
You can offer him as much money as you like and that story won't change.End of story.
Marty </div></div>

But one 68 nova was done at motion correct? I think it was noted in some motion book? If it was noted in the book that was published then Joel must have the info on that paticular 68 Nova?

[PeteLeathersac]

Sounds like Dan simply pestered Joel too much about the car hence why he doesn't want to talk more now or hear from others about it?
That said, Joel remembering or having paper for it now has nothing to do w/ whether it's a real Motion car or not as just think of the sheer amount of cars and performance that went through his hands and shop!
No doubt a tougher road to verify any Motion vehicle history without Joel but best of luck if you keep trying and hopefully you find a way to circumvent the need for his blessings.
<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif
~ Pete

[Salvatore]

IMO if Joel does not give that car his blessing it doesn't matter who painted it, dyed the interior, worked on it or mounted the tires. Even if Dennis Ferrara or Bill Mitchel drove it at Raceway Park without Joel's blessing,handshake nod or whatever I can't see that car standing much of a chance. Not much left of the car anyway is there?

[volquartsen]

Wondering if there is a picture trail of this Nova from the past?
Just my own curiosity..

[Charley Lillard]

All the debate aside...We are talking about a Nova that was supposedly brought to Motion and had work done. It was not a Baldwin Motion car. If restored I think whoever does it will be very upside down in it.

[69LM1]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All the debate aside...We are talking about a Nova that was supposedly brought to Motion and had work done. It was not a Baldwin Motion car. If restored I think whoever does it will be very upside down in it. </div></div>

This car now, probably. However, if this were indeed (and I personally don't think it will ever happen) the first ever Nova that Motion did, and it had sufficient history and a pedigree, it would probably be more than reasonable to restore and be ok on it.

Problem is there is no consistency with Joel, and he has admitted in this case (at least, there are more) that no matter what proof comes up, he will dispute it as a motion car. As much as Dan rubs people wrong and has an agenda, so does Joel apparently.

Same thing happened to that Chevelle, until someone whom was acceptable to Joel purchased the Chevelle, then it got &quot;certified&quot; as a &quot;Phase III&quot; Chevelle as more info mysteriously appeared.

All that to say, due to the black eye on this car and no way to independently prove anything one way or another, and zero chance that Joel will certify the car, I would restore it frame on as a Day2 period correct car and enjoy it.

Or sell it to someone connected to Joel <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

Rich

[resto4u]

You can't blame joel. If there is no paper on this car or memory of it, game over. I would not take other peoples word, it needs concrete paperwork. Value it as a regular nova.

[69LM1]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: resto4u</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can't blame joel. If there is no paper on this car or memory of it, game over. I would not take other peoples word, it needs concrete paperwork. Value it as a regular nova. </div></div>

But, that's not my understanding of what others are reporting here after speaking with him. He is apparently saying he will NEVER authenticate the car no matter what surfaces.

Big difference (if what people are saying here).

And for full disclosure, I don't care for the guy either. He was paid to give us a report on a suspected motion car. Said it was a &quot;maybe&quot;. Ok no bigge, asked for the report, paperwork. He said he does not give paperwork for a maybe. Back and forth, I asked for a &quot;no&quot; report then, again nothing but refusal from him. At the end of the day, if you are charging people thousands of dollars for a report, you should provide a written report. Yes, no or maybe.

Of course, within two weeks I got a call and email from a well known person trying to buy my crappy non motion car. He would do me a favor and take it off my hands.

Rich

[Dicky]

Guys, I'm running out of POPCORN.... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/thumbsdown.gif

DH <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/flag.gif

Stick to facts and not name calling.
-Charley

[luzl78]

My spider senses are telling me that this car was touched by motion.