Help With Selling #1 Car at Auction - Mecum Indy?

[bulletpruf]

Fellas -

Thinking about selling my car at Mecum (Indy) in May. It's a 1970 GTO, Ram Air IV, M21 4 sp, 4.33, manual steering, manual drums, bench seat, no radio (not "radio delete" since radio was an option). Documented by PHS. Just finished a concours nut and bolt no expense spared restoration at a noted Pontiac resto shop. Won "Best Concours Restored" at 2013 GTO Ass'n of America Nationals against 93 other concours restored cars. 1 of 326 RAIV/M21 GTO hardtops in 1970. Was up for sale here for $120k.

Bottom line is that I've spent WAAAYYY to much on this car and can't justify keeping it. On a related note, I can't really afford to make any mistakes when I sell it; I'm not independently wealthy (active duty Army) and taking a bath on this one would really hurt me financially.

Here's why I'm thinking Mecum (Indy) in May:

Mecum is a better venue than Barrett-Jackson for this car. The B-J crowd is more likely to appreciate a Carousel Red Judge than they are a Pepper Green GTO with a bench seat, even if the Carousel Red Judge was put together with hardware store bolts and really needs to be re-restored. Obviously, this is a generalization, and I have to confess that I've never been to B-J or Mecum, so I'm going off auction results and what I've heard.

I can go with a reserve at Mecum, so I don't get financially crushed if it only brings 1/2 of what I expect.

GTO prices are looking good lately; see results from most recent B-J auction for details (i.e., 69 Judges bringing six figures for average quality cars with nice color scheme). Obviously, B-J doesn't dictate the value, but it is one indicator.

If I do go with Mecum, what's the best time slot? Friday at 7 pm? How can I influence the day and time besides paying the fee to go on Friday? I know that the wrong day or wrong time of the day can really make a huge difference.

Any reason not to put it on eBay with a healthy "Buy It Now" price before the auction?

Thanks in advance for any input.

Scott

[GTO_DON]

First of all Scott,I would put the car back as it was ordered with bucket seats and a radio. Make it exactly as the Phs says it was born. As for the time slot that's a tuff one. You have to find out from other sellers when the money is in the room. It changes from auction to auction. Also it never hurts to try ebay first. I do hear that indy is usually pretty good to Pontiac. I was thinking about hauling my 72 convert out there to try my luck. It hurts me to be honest but I think your going to have a tough climb getting that money out of a non numbers matching car that's not a Judge. I do wish you luck cause you seem like a nice guy that's doing our country a honorable service and its a shame to lose money on a car like that but I do feel it's likely you will lose money on this one. That's just the nature of the beast these days.I've taken a bath in a few of my cars over the last few years so I feel you concern. Sorry for the not so great news but you wouldn't want me to lie to you I'm sure.

[bulletpruf]

Don -

Appreciate your input. Yes, it had buckets and radio from the factory, but at the end of the day, I wanted the car to be how I would have ordered it in 1970 - inexpensive, stripped down, and built to race. Just thought that radio and bench was more appropriate for an RAIV/M21/4.33 car with manual drums and steering. If that hurts the value, I'm ok with that.

I expect to lose $ on this car. I haven't added up the receipts, and frankly, I'm afraid to. I didn't go in intending to make $, but I would like to figure out how I can minimize my losses.

Realize that a non-numbers non-Judge isn't going to pull $200k or anywhere near it. I just hope there are a few folks at Mecum that appreciate the rarity and workmanship.

FYI - the original block is out there. I have seen it, touched it, have pictures, etc. Just can't talk the guy out of it; it's correct, including date, for his 70 RAIV Judge. It's been sitting patiently, already built, waiting to go into his car, for about 10 years. I think one day it will be reunited with my car, but haven't been able to close the deal.

Will give some thought to putting it on eBay. Seems that some folks do this just to publicize their cars (think Greg Teeters does this) before the auction. Curious to hear what other folks think about this.

Thanks,

Scott

[njsteve]

Saturday, in the early afternoon is the prime slot. That is when I sold my Charger last May. Place a reaosnable reserve on it and the next point is key: get there early and "sell" the car.

I brought mine on the prior saturday as it was in the "Saturday" feature car area. I then stood around the car for the next 7 days, 10 hours a day, talking to anyone and everyone who stopped to look at it. If it is a rare and unique car like yours, the average musclecar guy may not know how truly unique and valuable it is unless you give them a quick schpiel on the car. A qui k schpiel can turn into an extended conversation which then hooks the persn as a potential bidder, or he may know someone who is. A lot of people came up to my Charger and just thought is was a nice 70 hemi Charger until I started explainng things like the rarity, the orignal mieage, the incredible paper trail, the crazy original owner stories, etc. The collector that bought it was one of the guys that I spent a lot of time talking with during the week.

I saw a lot of cars just get dropped off, and no one was around them the entire week to even open the hood! They were neat, real cars and never made reserve because they weren't properly represented at the auction.

Also, l would have the orignal bench seat and radio available at the auction to go with the car. My Charger originally had manual steering and I carefully wrapped up the original steering column, box and pitman arm and had them in the trunk to go with the car.

[Ryan1969Chevelle]

Steve hit the nail on the head.

I just attended Kissimmee Mecum Auction and the cars I was interested to see were not well represented, no-one to talk to, no cell number to call when the owner was away, and a couple were filthy dirty. If you are selling remotely, have a trusted friend or the restorer SELL the car before it goes across the block. I will do it but don't be surprised if you odometer reading is higher by 1320 feet:-)

Ryan

[marxjunk]

its going to be hard for him to "be there" he's stationed out of the country....

[weranc55]

As Don said be prepared to take a hit on it. Its a very nicely restored car. That's one thing it's got going for it. It's not a judge, not original motor, and not a great color combo. It was my car I would try eBay first with a buy it now and best offer. At least this way you will get a pretty good idea were people value the car. If you are committed to taking it to an auction I think Indy is your best option. Friday afternoon or Saturday early afternoon a good time slots. FYI I have a blue 70 ra4 Judge that I may bring to the auction. Frame off sr block car. I have over 100 in it. If it gets close to 70 grand I'd sell it. I'd like to get more but have to be realistic.
You also could try to consign it at rk motor? They try to get high retail. Cars seems to sit there for a while but I'm sure some do sell.

[njsteve]

WERANC55 sold a car or two last year at Mecum...and I was the one answering the main question of the day which was &quot;Where the hell is that SD that is going on Saturday&quot;. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif

[DW31S]

Don't get discouraged. First of all, we all owe you a big THANK YOU for your service to us and our country! Green is &quot;HOT&quot; now and I, for one LOVE it!!! I searched for a specific for and was LUCKY to find it in GREEN! The '70s earth-tone colors are very much in demand and many like myself are tired of fake red and black cars, orange, too. If you really have $120,000.00 or more, be proud of that and tell prospective buyers where, how, and why. Tell them why you built it &quot;your way&quot; and how easy it is to change the car to &quot;as-delivered&quot; status. Auctions are fickle and anything and everything is possible. The better auction houses will educate you on what the best time slot is; listen to them and if that run number is a higher cost---pay it. That extra $100-200.00 could yield tens-of-thousands! Mecum Indy is a great muscle car venue. If you can't attend due to serving your country (and our's) make sure your representative explains that as your car is on the block, and make sure the rep. also knows EVERYTHING about your car. I've seen some strange stuff at auctions and to this day I maintain that at an auction &quot;You never know what CAN or WILL happen&quot;. When egos (and alcohol) are involved, ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE!!!

[weranc55]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WERANC55 sold a car or two last year at Mecum...and I was the one answering the main question of the day which was &quot;Where the hell is that SD that is going on Saturday&quot;. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif </div></div>

Lol. I don't think I could handle sitting there all week and answering not so intelligent questions.

[njsteve]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: weranc55</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WERANC55 sold a car or two last year at Mecum...and I was the one answering the main question of the day which was &quot;Where the hell is that SD that is going on Saturday&quot;. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif </div></div>

Lol. I don't think I could handle sitting there all week and answering not so intelligent questions. </div></div>

I have teenagers. So I am an expert in this. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif

[69LM1]

I would say that I did not have a great experience at Mecum (Dallas). Unless you are an &quot;insider&quot; you will not be able to get into a good slot.

They used a Union service to drive cars across the block, and the 80+ year old guy driving my L78 across could not drive a stick and kept killing the car. I asked if I could just drive it across and was told no. Their fix? PUSH THE CAR ACROSS THE BLOCK!

I got the same advice about the phone number and being around the car. The Mecum authorities came by and made me take the phone number off the car, stating that they did not allow contact information on cars because they have a 'after its over' clause and you might try and sell the car after the auction and try and bypass them.

All in all.... I have much better luck advertising on these sites as well as Ebay, but I don't have high end #1 restorations either. Dallas may have been an exception as well.

Rich

[njsteve]

No such nonsense at Indy. I was encouraged to put a note in the window or on the display with my contact number while at the auction for that minute or two that I was not standing with the car, just in case someone needed to get in touch with me. No &quot;union driver&quot; craziness either.

[Billohio]

It's amazing 99% of the cars have no one around. Spent 4 days in Kissimmee and the cars I was interested in had no one there. The w30 I was interested in, the guy finally appeared auction morning and he was pretty much clueless or would not discuss what he knew about the car. Pretty much a turn off.

[njsteve]

The fact is that the car actually &quot;sells&quot; during the week it is on display when you are presenting it to prospective buyers, not during the 30 seconds it's on the block.

Most prospective buyers see an absent seller as a big red flag as to the authenticity and/or quailty of a car. If I was looking to buy a particular car at auction and couldn't find anyone there or a seller rep who wouldn't answer questions, I would not place a bid on that car unless it was a car I already knew everything about.

[bulletpruf]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Saturday, in the early afternoon is the prime slot. That is when I sold my Charger last May. Place a reaosnable reserve on it and the next point is key: get there early and &quot;sell&quot; the car.

I brought mine on the prior saturday as it was in the &quot;Saturday&quot; feature car area. I then stood around the car for the next 7 days, 10 hours a day, talking to anyone and everyone who stopped to look at it. If it is a rare and unique car like yours, the average musclecar guy may not know how truly unique and valuable it is unless you give them a quick schpiel on the car. A qui k schpiel can turn into an extended conversation which then hooks the persn as a potential bidder, or he may know someone who is. A lot of people came up to my Charger and just thought is was a nice 70 hemi Charger until I started explainng things like the rarity, the orignal mieage, the incredible paper trail, the crazy original owner stories, etc. The collector that bought it was one of the guys that I spent a lot of time talking with during the week.

I saw a lot of cars just get dropped off, and no one was around them the entire week to even open the hood! They were neat, real cars and never made reserve because they weren't properly represented at the auction.

Also, l would have the orignal bench seat and radio available at the auction to go with the car. My Charger originally had manual steering and I carefully wrapped up the original steering column, box and pitman arm and had them in the trunk to go with the car. </div></div>

Steve -

Great input. I will be able to attend; will see how early I can get there and park myself next to the car. I sold new cars at a dealership in college (Richards Honda and American Jeep/Eagle in Baton Rouge), but methinks it will be a wee bit different selling a &quot;new&quot; high end used car.

Thanks,

Scott

[bulletpruf]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ryan1969Chevelle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Steve hit the nail on the head.

I just attended Kissimmee Mecum Auction and the cars I was interested to see were not well represented, no-one to talk to, no cell number to call when the owner was away, and a couple were filthy dirty. If you are selling remotely, have a trusted friend or the restorer SELL the car before it goes across the block. I will do it but don't be surprised if you odometer reading is higher by 1320 feet:-)

Ryan </div></div>

Ryan -

I've heard the same thing. I had already planned to show up early to &quot;pimp&quot; the car a bit, but this just reinforces it.

Thanks for the offer to run it through a few heat cycles for me. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/3gears.gif I'll have to give that some thought...

Scott

[bulletpruf]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marxjunk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">its going to be hard for him to &quot;be there&quot; he's stationed out of the country.... </div></div>

Hey Mark -

I'm making the trip. My wife has family nearby, so I'm dragging her and the baby with me. Really looking forward to the 14 hour plane trip with a 1 year old!

Scott

[bulletpruf]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: weranc55</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As Don said be prepared to take a hit on it. Its a very nicely restored car. That's one thing it's got going for it. It's not a judge, not original motor, and not a great color combo. It was my car I would try eBay first with a buy it now and best offer. At least this way you will get a pretty good idea were people value the car. If you are committed to taking it to an auction I think Indy is your best option. Friday afternoon or Saturday early afternoon a good time slots. FYI I have a blue 70 ra4 Judge that I may bring to the auction. Frame off sr block car. I have over 100 in it. If it gets close to 70 grand I'd sell it. I'd like to get more but have to be realistic.
You also could try to consign it at rk motor? They try to get high retail. Cars seems to sit there for a while but I'm sure some do sell. </div></div>

Thanks for your input; great to hear from someone who has sold there before.

Sounds like a reasonable price for your Judge, especially a round port car.

Thought about consigning it somewhere and also have an invitation to display it at Floyd Garrett's museum (apparently they will let folks know if a car can be bought), but logistics are problematic for me. Would be a bit easier if I was in the states.

Good input on eBay. Really doesn't appear to be a downside if you have it as &quot;Buy it Now.&quot; Listing it with a reserve always runs the risk that the bidding ends up lower than expected and folks de-value the car accordingly.

Thanks

Scott

[bulletpruf]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DW31S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't get discouraged. First of all, we all owe you a big THANK YOU for your service to us and our country! Green is &quot;HOT&quot; now and I, for one LOVE it!!! I searched for a specific for and was LUCKY to find it in GREEN! The '70s earth-tone colors are very much in demand and many like myself are tired of fake red and black cars, orange, too. If you really have $120,000.00 or more, be proud of that and tell prospective buyers where, how, and why. Tell them why you built it &quot;your way&quot; and how easy it is to change the car to &quot;as-delivered&quot; status. Auctions are fickle and anything and everything is possible. The better auction houses will educate you on what the best time slot is; listen to them and if that run number is a higher cost---pay it. That extra $100-200.00 could yield tens-of-thousands! Mecum Indy is a great muscle car venue. If you can't attend due to serving your country (and our's) make sure your representative explains that as your car is on the block, and make sure the rep. also knows EVERYTHING about your car. I've seen some strange stuff at auctions and to this day I maintain that at an auction &quot;You never know what CAN or WILL happen&quot;. When egos (and alcohol) are involved, ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE!!! </div></div>

Dave -

Appreciate your thoughts on this. Glad to hear that &quot;Pepper Green is the New Black!&quot; Maybe that's what my pitch will be at Mecum!

I stepped up and paid the premium for the Friday time slot with Saturday as #2. Should be able to swap, since it seems like Saturday is a bit better. The premium package (more advertising, covered parking, professional photography, etc) + time slot set me back $1,500, but I figured now wasn't the time to go cheap.

Thanks,

Scott

[bulletpruf]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 69LM1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would say that I did not have a great experience at Mecum (Dallas). Unless you are an &quot;insider&quot; you will not be able to get into a good slot.

They used a Union service to drive cars across the block, and the 80+ year old guy driving my L78 across could not drive a stick and kept killing the car. I asked if I could just drive it across and was told no. Their fix? PUSH THE CAR ACROSS THE BLOCK!

I got the same advice about the phone number and being around the car. The Mecum authorities came by and made me take the phone number off the car, stating that they did not allow contact information on cars because they have a 'after its over' clause and you might try and sell the car after the auction and try and bypass them.

All in all.... I have much better luck advertising on these sites as well as Ebay, but I don't have high end #1 restorations either. Dallas may have been an exception as well.

Rich </div></div>

Rich -

Good points. If they have a non-stick driving geezer getting behind the wheel of my car, I'll have some serious heartburn.

Thanks,

Scott

[bulletpruf]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No such nonsense at Indy. I was encouraged to put a note in the window or on the display with my contact number while at the auction for that minute or two that I was not standing with the car, just in case someone needed to get in touch with me. No &quot;union driver&quot; craziness either. </div></div>

Thanks for the info, Steve. Will be nice if I can unplug periodically and check out the other cars at the auction. If they have my cell # that will make it easier.

Scott

[bulletpruf]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Billohio</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's amazing 99% of the cars have no one around. Spent 4 days in Kissimmee and the cars I was interested in had no one there. The w30 I was interested in, the guy finally appeared auction morning and he was pretty much clueless or would not discuss what he knew about the car. Pretty much a turn off. </div></div>

Doesn't make much sense to me, unless you're hiding something and/or counting on the buyers having more money than sense.

Scott

[bulletpruf]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The fact is that the car actually &quot;sells&quot; during the week it is on display when you are presenting it to prospective buyers, not during the 30 seconds it's on the block.

Most prospective buyers see an absent seller as a big red flag as to the authenticity and/or quailty of a car. If I was looking to buy a particular car at auction and couldn't find anyone there or a seller rep who wouldn't answer questions, I would not place a bid on that car unless it was a car I already knew everything about. </div></div>

Agreed. It would have to be a car I was very familiar with before I parted with serious coin.

I bought a 72 AMX from a guy who had purchased it at an auction. He hadn't planned to bid on it, but when it wasn't getting any attention, he threw out a bid and got it CHEAP. He didn't figure out why until he got it home and brought it to his mechanic. It was a cobbled together mess, full of bondo, and had structural rust in the front and rear subframes. Just a parts car.

Thanks

Scott

[njsteve]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bulletpruf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No such nonsense at Indy. I was encouraged to put a note in the window or on the display with my contact number while at the auction for that minute or two that I was not standing with the car, just in case someone needed to get in touch with me. No &quot;union driver&quot; craziness either. </div></div>

Thanks for the info, Steve. Will be nice if I can unplug periodically and check out the other cars at the auction. If they have my cell # that will make it easier.

Scott </div></div>

I would recommend havng someone you know drive it across the block so you are free to be at the podium to negotiate any dropping of the reserve or a better commision rate. When you get there they will immediately ask you &quot;what's your lowest amount you need?&quot;.

Don't fall for that, just respond: &quot;Let's see how high you can get it bid to and then we can talk&quot;.

Otherwise they will run it through very quickly and just try to get it sold for that amount you just gave them.

Put on your &quot;War Face&quot; and stand your ground. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

[bulletpruf]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bulletpruf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No such nonsense at Indy. I was encouraged to put a note in the window or on the display with my contact number while at the auction for that minute or two that I was not standing with the car, just in case someone needed to get in touch with me. No &quot;union driver&quot; craziness either. </div></div>

Thanks for the info, Steve. Will be nice if I can unplug periodically and check out the other cars at the auction. If they have my cell # that will make it easier.

Scott </div></div>

I would recommend havng someone you know drive it across the block so you are free to be at the podium to negotiate any dropping of the reserve or a better commision rate. When you get there they will immediately ask you &quot;what's your lowest amount you need?&quot;.

Don't fall for that, just respond: &quot;Let's see how high you can get it bid to and then we can talk&quot;.

Otherwise they will run it through very quickly and just try to get it sold for that amount you just gave them.

Put on your &quot;War Face&quot; and stand your ground. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif </div></div>

Excellent info! Tips like this are extremely helpful!

Scott

[twertsy]

If I had the smack Scott, I'd be saving you all this trouble! That's a beautiful car, and I do NOT like green cars.

[bulletpruf]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: twertsy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I had the smack Scott, I'd be saving you all this trouble! That's a beautiful car, and I do NOT like green cars. </div></div>

Thanks, Todd. Please rob a bank or two, or at least buy some lottery tickets. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

Scott

[twertsy]

PB tickets in hand. And since it's a sure thing, you'll be my first call.

[bashton]

Take heed to Stevens recommendations. Be with the car as much as possible to answer questions from anyone who may ask. Don't for a minute think that someone who may not <span style="font-style: italic">look</span> like a buyer isn't one!

Prepare some information sheets that outline why your car stands above the others, with plenty of detail and have them available at all times. Don't assume that people know. List your national awards, (cough-cough; MCACN) as they were well earned and respected, not lawn show awards that almost anyone can get.

You have a beautiful car and it will stand out if you take the proper steps to assure it is not lost in the crowd. Be sure it starts right up and runs properly at all times and you have enough high octane fuel. There are a lot of cars there and many that may have more instant eye appeal, but not nearly as many that have the quality of yours.

Best of luck and we'll see you there! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

Bashton
MCACN Managing Member

[OldZ28Owner]

&quot;Don't for a minute think that someone who may not <span style="font-style: italic">look</span> like a buyer isn't one!&quot;

I always remember working at a Lexus dealer when a couple of guys came in, both wearing bib overalls. No one wanted to wait on them, but the guy with the patience to walk up sold an SC430 ($72,000) and an LS600 ($120,000). Turns out that they owned a Christmas tree farm in western NC and had more money than a deity!

[bashton]

Trust me...there are people that regularly attend the MCACN show that you wouldn't for a minute know have what they have based on their outward appearance, including some of the participants!

Bashton
MCACN Managing Member

[Smokey]

Jim brings up a good point. You never know who is a buyer these days. Met some kids the other day all muddy who just dropped Copo money on a new pulling truck motor. Then I was at a customers house right before Christmas who were farmers. 2 miles down the gravel...and her husband pulled up with a new LS600 Lexus. I go wow that's a nice present for your wife. He goes ya...beans were still pretty good for us this year. Not as good as last year but not bad either. Remind you he was wearing his dirty Carharts full of dried on pooo on them. He has 4 midyears in the machine shed.

[rubbinisracing]

From past experience I have found it helpful to have instructions for the seller's assistant who will work with you as your car is being auctioned. The 90 to 150 seconds while your car is active is not a good time to develop strategy. There are basically 2 methods the auction house can use for cars with a reserve.

1.) The seller's assistant will ask you about your reserve price and if your firm on that dollar amount. If he senses that you’re adamant on not letting your car go for anything less than your reserve they will most likely proceed as follows. They will recognize real and non-existent bids, as allowed by their agreement, very quickly to just short of the reserve to see if there is any real money on your car at that price. If there is real money on the car they will work to get the bids to the reserve. If not, they will quickly move to the next car and your time in the sun is over.

2.) If you instruct the seller's assistant that you want to know where the real money is and that you might lower your reserve or accept an amount lower depending on the level, the auctioneer after initially acknowledging non-existent bids to get the pump primed will switch to only real money bids. Now you can see the bids you have to work with and can make a judgment, albeit quick, on how to proceed. If the real money is close to the reserve and there is more than one interested bidder the auctioneer will work to get the bidding to the reserve or an acceptable level for the consignor to accept. If the real money is far short of the reserve and a deal can't be made they will close the bidding and move to the next car.

Both methods have their advantages. With the former, the auction house has a much higher &quot;bid to&quot; amount to work deals from post block. The consignor leaves the auction with a car that just fell short of his reserve with verifiable auction results to support his price. But unfortunately, in the quick run up of the bidding to reach a level just below the reserve amount real money bidders may have been bounced off the car while it was on the block. Meaning that real money that fell 5 to 10k short of where the auctioneer took the bidding has been lost and the consignor has lost those bids and has no way to accept them. Thus, the consignor has no real feedback on the perceived value of his car.

With the later, the consignor has good information about how the bidders felt about the car and had an opportunity to work a deal for real money. Unfortunately in this method the consignor may leave the auction with a high bid that is tens of thousands less than what he had hoped for and the auction house has a large gap to bridge in trying to work post block sales. In addition, there may be less than favorable historical bids that can be used as a gauge for subsequent efforts to sell/purchase the car. These precedents can give pause to buyers who may have wanted to pony up for the car initially.

If I really want to move the car I go with no. 2. If I plan on attending other auctions and don't mind the expense and time of prepping the car for auction and see it as entertainment and enjoy the ride I use no.1.

Just some thoughts that might help!

[GaryC]

I'm a firm believer of never judging a book by it's cover. What you might see on the outside is not always a true view of a person...neatly dressed or a slob.

[Xplantdad]

Good info Howard! Also, as far as the fuel....make sure you have enough...but just like MCACN or any other indoor event, I believe that you have to have less than a quarter tank of gas...Fire Marshal rules <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

Also, spend the money on a good show board, if you don't already have one.

Finally, as been said above-be around your car as much as possible. One of my buddies just scored a really nice Chevelle...because the owner wasn't there...and it was dirty until it hit the block! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

[Ryan1969Chevelle]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Xplantdad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good info Howard! Also, as far as the fuel....make sure you have enough...but just like MCACN or any other indoor event, I believe that you have to have less than a quarter tank of gas...Fire Marshal rules <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

Also, spend the money on a good show board, if you don't already have one.

Finally, as been said above-be around your car as much as possible. One of my buddies just scored a really nice Chevelle...because the owner wasn't there...and it was dirty until it hit the block! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif </div></div>

BINGO.........a really really nice Chevelle.

Ryan

[Vern B]

Really good information and strategies, thank's.

Do you consider taking a chance and letting it go to &quot;The Bid Goes On&quot;?

Obviously, it's best to sell it on the block, but I also understand Mecum may negotiate to the point of eliminating the sellers fee during this last chance option. That's probably not a huge thing, as it relates to the entire transaction, but on a high dollar car it could be a factor.

Maybe the &quot;mood&quot; is broken by letting the buyers walk, but they do seem to sell a lot of vehicles after they cross the block.

I was looking for an older truck at the recent Kissimmee auction. Several I was interested in, that were a little above my price, sold a day, or two later.

[bulletpruf]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bashton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Take heed to Stevens recommendations. Be with the car as much as possible to answer questions from anyone who may ask. Don't for a minute think that someone who may not <span style="font-style: italic">look</span> like a buyer isn't one!

Prepare some information sheets that outline why your car stands above the others, with plenty of detail and have them available at all times. Don't assume that people know. List your national awards, (cough-cough; MCACN) as they were well earned and respected, not lawn show awards that almost anyone can get.

You have a beautiful car and it will stand out if you take the proper steps to assure it is not lost in the crowd. Be sure it starts right up and runs properly at all times and you have enough high octane fuel. There are a lot of cars there and many that may have more instant eye appeal, but not nearly as many that have the quality of yours.

Best of luck and we'll see you there! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

Bashton
MCACN Managing Member </div></div>

Bob -

Thanks for the advice and kind words. Agree 100% on the quality; other cars can match the rarity, pedigree, etc, but workmanship and attention to detail by Darrell and his team at Supercar Creations is unbeatable. This is one car that won't have to be re-restored by the new buyer.

Thinking about printing up some color flyers with details on the car, awards, magazine coverage, etc.

Car runs quite well; will certainly ensure that it's got plenty of high test fuel for the event.

Look forward to meeting you in May. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/flag.gif

Scott

[bulletpruf]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OldZ28Owner</div><div class="ubbcode-body">&quot;Don't for a minute think that someone who may not <span style="font-style: italic">look</span> like a buyer isn't one!&quot;

I always remember working at a Lexus dealer when a couple of guys came in, both wearing bib overalls. No one wanted to wait on them, but the guy with the patience to walk up sold an SC430 ($72,000) and an LS600 ($120,000). Turns out that they owned a Christmas tree farm in western NC and had more money than a deity! </div></div>

I know what you're talking about. One of the wealthiest people I know (heir to tobacco family fortune) reminds me of the Duck Dynasty crew, but not nearly as clean cut as they are...

[bulletpruf]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Smokey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jim brings up a good point. You never know who is a buyer these days. Met some kids the other day all muddy who just dropped Copo money on a new pulling truck motor. Then I was at a customers house right before Christmas who were farmers. 2 miles down the gravel...and her husband pulled up with a new LS600 Lexus. I go wow that's a nice present for your wife. He goes ya...beans were still pretty good for us this year. Not as good as last year but not bad either. Remind you he was wearing his dirty Carharts full of dried on pooo on them. He has 4 midyears in the machine shed. </div></div>

4 midyears in the machine shed = <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/Can-I-Have-It.gif Man, I loves me some midyear Vettes. Had a sb/4 sp 66 convt and a L72/4sp/knockoff/side exhaust 66 coupe when I was in school. Wife loves 'em too, but no room for the baby.

[bulletpruf]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rubbinisracing</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From past experience I have found it helpful to have instructions for the seller's assistant who will work with you as your car is being auctioned. The 90 to 150 seconds while your car is active is not a good time to develop strategy. There are basically 2 methods the auction house can use for cars with a reserve.

1.) The seller's assistant will ask you about your reserve price and if your firm on that dollar amount. If he senses that you’re adamant on not letting your car go for anything less than your reserve they will most likely proceed as follows. They will recognize real and non-existent bids, as allowed by their agreement, very quickly to just short of the reserve to see if there is any real money on your car at that price. If there is real money on the car they will work to get the bids to the reserve. If not, they will quickly move to the next car and your time in the sun is over.

2.) If you instruct the seller's assistant that you want to know where the real money is and that you might lower your reserve or accept an amount lower depending on the level, the auctioneer after initially acknowledging non-existent bids to get the pump primed will switch to only real money bids. Now you can see the bids you have to work with and can make a judgment, albeit quick, on how to proceed. If the real money is close to the reserve and there is more than one interested bidder the auctioneer will work to get the bidding to the reserve or an acceptable level for the consignor to accept. If the real money is far short of the reserve and a deal can't be made they will close the bidding and move to the next car.

Both methods have their advantages. With the former, the auction house has a much higher &quot;bid to&quot; amount to work deals from post block. The consignor leaves the auction with a car that just fell short of his reserve with verifiable auction results to support his price. But unfortunately, in the quick run up of the bidding to reach a level just below the reserve amount real money bidders may have been bounced off the car while it was on the block. Meaning that real money that fell 5 to 10k short of where the auctioneer took the bidding has been lost and the consignor has lost those bids and has no way to accept them. Thus, the consignor has no real feedback on the perceived value of his car.

With the later, the consignor has good information about how the bidders felt about the car and had an opportunity to work a deal for real money. Unfortunately in this method the consignor may leave the auction with a high bid that is tens of thousands less than what he had hoped for and the auction house has a large gap to bridge in trying to work post block sales. In addition, there may be less than favorable historical bids that can be used as a gauge for subsequent efforts to sell/purchase the car. These precedents can give pause to buyers who may have wanted to pony up for the car initially.

If I really want to move the car I go with no. 2. If I plan on attending other auctions and don't mind the expense and time of prepping the car for auction and see it as entertainment and enjoy the ride I use no.1.

Just some thoughts that might help! </div></div>

Howard -

Thanks for the detailed explanation; crucial info for someone headed to his first auction.

I do want to sell the car, so option #2 makes more sense to me.

Thanks again,

Scott

[bulletpruf]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Xplantdad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good info Howard! Also, as far as the fuel....make sure you have enough...but just like MCACN or any other indoor event, I believe that you have to have less than a quarter tank of gas...Fire Marshal rules <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

Also, spend the money on a good show board, if you don't already have one.

Finally, as been said above-be around your car as much as possible. One of my buddies just scored a really nice Chevelle...because the owner wasn't there...and it was dirty until it hit the block! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif</div></div>

Bruce -

I have a basic show board, but it doesn't include the awards.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/sd_walters/Cars/70%20RAIV%20GTO/full-13277-8149-img_00003456_zps0b577ce4.jpg (http://s102.photobucket.com/user/sd_walters/media/Cars/70%20RAIV%20GTO/full-13277-8149-img_00003456_zps0b577ce4.jpg.html)

I can assure you that my car won't be dirty when it hits the block!

Thanks for the advice,

Scott

[bulletpruf]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Vern B</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Really good information and strategies, thank's.

Do you consider taking a chance and letting it go to &quot;The Bid Goes On&quot;?

Obviously, it's best to sell it on the block, but I also understand Mecum may negotiate to the point of eliminating the sellers fee during this last chance option. That's probably not a huge thing, as it relates to the entire transaction, but on a high dollar car it could be a factor.

Maybe the &quot;mood&quot; is broken by letting the buyers walk, but they do seem to sell a lot of vehicles after they cross the block.

I was looking for an older truck at the recent Kissimmee auction. Several I was interested in, that were a little above my price, sold a day, or two later. </div></div>

I'm ok with hanging out for another day or so to sell the car if it doesn't sell on the block, but I have to get back to Korea, so my time is somewhat limited. Good input, though, and glad to hear that many cars sell after they roll off the block.

Thanks

Scott

[bulletpruf]

Mecum is sending out a professional photographer from Wisconsin tomorrow (car is in Ohio) to take some pics.

Car is headed to a large indoor car show in Canton this weekend if anyone is going to be there.

Thanks,

Scott

[stritestoration]

First off, great looking car. Would you believe that I missed your car at mcacn until I was loading mine for home and saw yours moving out of its spot. Love green also, not a mainstream color kind of guy. anyway...I had the experience a few years ago selling at mecum. I was a bundle of nerves as it approached the block. as soon I got on stage they hit me right away with &quot;what's it going to take, what you gotta have&quot; They gave a look to the auctioneer with a hand sign and it went quick. mecum seems to roll the cars out real quick!!! And if you watch tv, once reserve is met it seems that its hammered. I've been to enough BJ events to know that they do give cars more time of day,although it is a gamble with no reserve. I've heard from others also that BJ seems to get more $$ for cars. Mecum seems lately to be running quicker as they increase the # of cars at each auction. Seems like they are watering down the market. I would also say this year at BJ, I rarely saw anyone by a car. And I was there many days and took many laps around. I would even consider buisiness cards with just the lot # time and a quick decription along with your #. It shows that you are interested in talking about it. How many people buy without asking questions? For what it's worth, I ended up selling my car for $3,000 less than my original reserve. But minus the fees and I still was a bit shy of the of where I originally wanted to be. Good luck and super car.

[njsteve]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bulletpruf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Bruce -

I have a basic show board, but it doesn't include the awards.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/sd_walters/Cars/70%20RAIV%20GTO/full-13277-8149-img_00003456_zps0b577ce4.jpg (http://s102.photobucket.com/user/sd_walters/media/Cars/70%20RAIV%20GTO/full-13277-8149-img_00003456_zps0b577ce4.jpg.html)


Scott </div></div>

As for a sign, you can make a nice one yourself like I did. Buyers tend to ignore those professional show car signs, since everyone has them. I went down to my local Michaels Craft store and paid $20 for a big 3'x3' poster frame and made my own display which contained a typed up history of the car and its rarity, magazine features and reduced sized copies of the original documents, close up photos of the vital engine parts and serial numbers like the VIN, engine VIN and trans VIN. And keep in mind, the car was not matching #'s either! For some reason people get happily reassured just seeing a photo, regardless of whether its the original engine or not. On that same sign you can put a note that says &quot;Any questions at the auction call me at XXX-XXXX.

And no that wasn't a home-made tripod - I had a metal oil painting easel that could cause some serous damage to a car if it got knocked over, so I went to Home Depot and bought $5 worth of foam, pipe insulation and covered the metal legs and posts of the easel with it. I had a lot of people at the auction ask about that as well - anything that gets a potential bidder talking with you, is a good thing!

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2014/02/full-1359-9629-p1000543.jpg

[bulletpruf]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stritestoration</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First off, great looking car. Would you believe that I missed your car at mcacn until I was loading mine for home and saw yours moving out of its spot. Love green also, not a mainstream color kind of guy. anyway...I had the experience a few years ago selling at mecum. I was a bundle of nerves as it approached the block. as soon I got on stage they hit me right away with &quot;what's it going to take, what you gotta have&quot; They gave a look to the auctioneer with a hand sign and it went quick. mecum seems to roll the cars out real quick!!! And if you watch tv, once reserve is met it seems that its hammered. I've been to enough BJ events to know that they do give cars more time of day,although it is a gamble with no reserve. I've heard from others also that BJ seems to get more $$ for cars. Mecum seems lately to be running quicker as they increase the # of cars at each auction. Seems like they are watering down the market. I would also say this year at BJ, I rarely saw anyone by a car. And I was there many days and took many laps around. I would even consider buisiness cards with just the lot # time and a quick decription along with your #. It shows that you are interested in talking about it. How many people buy without asking questions? For what it's worth, I ended up selling my car for $3,000 less than my original reserve. But minus the fees and I still was a bit shy of the of where I originally wanted to be. Good luck and super car. </div></div>

Thanks, Jason. Appreciate the details on your recent experience at Mecum. Hopefully they give my car enough time on the block.

I'll certainly have my contact info displayed at/near the car somewhere. Think it would be easier if it was on a business card or flyer that the prospective buyers can take with them.

Scott

[bulletpruf]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bulletpruf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Bruce -

I have a basic show board, but it doesn't include the awards.


Scott </div></div>

As for a sign, you can make a nice one yourself like I did. Buyers tend to ignore those professional show car signs, since everyone has them. I went down to my local Michaels Craft store and paid $20 for a big 3'x3' poster frame and made my own display which contained a typed up history of the car and its rarity, magazine features and reduced sized copies of the original documents, close up photos of the vital engine parts and serial numbers like the VIN, engine VIN and trans VIN. And keep in mind, the car was not matching #'s either! For some reason people get happily reassured just seeing a photo, regardless of whether its the original engine or not. On that same sign you can put a note that says &quot;Any questions at the auction call me at XXX-XXXX.

And no that wasn't a home-made tripod - I had a metal oil painting easel that could cause some serous damage to a car if it got knocked over, so I went to Home Depot and bought $5 worth of foam, pipe insulation and covered the metal legs and posts of the easel with it. I had a lot of people at the auction ask about that as well - anything that gets a potential bidder talking with you, is a good thing!

</div></div>

Thanks, Steve. Gorgeous car with a very interesting past, too.

Good idea on the poster board - that would give me room for magazine coverage, PHS documents, and pics of the relevant stampings and dates.

Thanks again,

Scott

[mockingbird812]

Does that Charger have eny dokumentashun?! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif

[Dicky]

Sam, urr phunne!! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/haha.gif

DH <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/flag.gif

[bulletpruf]

Follow-up question - what if you owe a few $$$ on the car? Bank has the title. Sounds like I need to pay it off, right? If that's required, shouldn't be a problem. Just need to move some $. Just thought that there might be an easier way to do it.

Thanks,

Scott

[Stefano]

Contact your consignment agent at Mecum.

Of course your plan is the easiest, pay off the loan and have free and clear title to the vehicle at the auction.

Your bank will provide you with a payoff letter. This will state who gets paid for a lien release as well as the principal balance due at a given date. It should also include a per diem amount which is due until the note is paid off.

Once the note and lien are settled, the auction will release the balance of funds to you.

The auction may announce T/A or title absent when your car crosses the block if the bank doesn't release the title in advance.

[njsteve]

Pay it off. It's a lot easier. You need to have the title in hand to sign over once it sells. That is one of the documents that the Mecum office takes when you bring the car in for the auction. You don't actually sign it over until after it sells on the block, then you proceed to the office and sign your paperwork and get your check shortly thereafter.

Didn't they already request a copy of the title when you signed up for the auction spot?

The guy that bought my car was a well known collector so he had some type of line of credit so I got the check within a half hour of the auction time. If the buyer is buying several cars and waits til Sunday to settle his total account, you might have to wait for Mecum to mail you the check.

[bulletpruf]

Thanks for the input, fellas.

Ad is up on Mecum's site now. They must have cut and pasted from another car because some of the data is incorrect. Should be corrected soon. Pictures look very nice.

Scott

[bulletpruf]

Fellas -

A few updates -

Car will have a full feature in the August Muscle Car Review. That's the next issue, but I don't think it will be out before the auction. Can anyone tell me when they usually receive their MCR in the mail? Any ideas on how to get the issue early? Would love to have this displayed with the car.

Car will be dropped off at Mecum on Monday. It will certainly be clean, ready to go. Will have PHS and info sheet on the dash board - phone numbers, part numbers, etc. Will have the actual awards as well - MCACN and GTOAA Nationals Best Concours Restored.

I can't get there until Thursday, but I'll be in the states on Monday, so anyone with questions will be able to get me via cell phone.

Scheduled to be auctioned on Friday, but waiting for Mecum to tell me what time. Believe it will be afternoon or early evening.

Mecum ad looks pretty good; details all correct, pictures look great.

http://www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_detail...mp;startRow=141 (http://www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_detail.cfm?LOT_ID=SC0514-184139&amp;entryRow=143&amp;lottype=&amp;startRow=141)

Am I missing anything?

Scott

[njsteve]

I wish I was going, I'd be happy to babysit the car for you. Maybe one of the other guys out there can hang with the car and act as a &quot;question broker&quot; and forward questions to you by email. I did that for a buddy last year who had a SD Trans Am. He was so busy getting his other cars ready that he couldn't be at the auction til late.

Anyone out there going?

[bulletpruf]

Leaving tomorrow, but spending a few days with in-laws before we head to Indy. 13 hour flight from Seoul to Detroit with mama and 13 month-old Abigail. She's teething and loves to hear herself scream. I pity whoever is sitting next to us...

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/sd_walters/Family%20Pics/IMG_0691_zps5b006c6a.jpg (http://s102.photobucket.com/user/sd_walters/media/Family%20Pics/IMG_0691_zps5b006c6a.jpg.html)

[Ryan1969Chevelle]

LIKE

[bulletpruf]

Easy flight from Korea.

Car is at Mecum.

Auction time is 5:20 pm Friday.

Thanks

Scott

[Xplantdad]

Good luck!

[L72COPO]

Scott, I will be at Mecum tomorrow (Wednesday) PM. Selling my 67 Z -28 also on Friday evening. Car number F-242. If you want me to check anything out let me know.

Contact number at show 217-494-7888.

Don Stowers

[John]

Good luck to both of you.

You both have great cars <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

[bulletpruf]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: L72COPO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Scott, I will be at Mecum tomorrow (Wednesday) PM. Selling my 67 Z -28 also on Friday evening. Car number F-242. If you want me to check anything out let me know.

Contact number at show 217-494-7888.

Don Stowers </div></div>

Don,

Gorgeous Z!

If you happen to pass by my car today or tomorrow can you give it a quick once over? Everything should be in order but it has been unsupervised for a day or two.

My cell is 919 478 1663.

Thanks!

Scott

[bulletpruf]

Fellas -

Bottom line - car went through yesterday; no sale at $79k. Some post-auction interest, but does not appear that it will sell today. If not, plan is to send it to a well-known muscle car dealer in the midwest...

A few comments about the process, lessons learned, etc. -

-When Darrell dropped the car off on Monday, he taped a one page document to the glass with details on parts, restoration, my contact info, etc. This wasn't on the car when I saw it for the first time on Thursday. I'm guessing the Mecum folks took it off because it had my contact info, but I did not verify this.

-When I got there, I put the awards/certificates in the trunk and opened it up (MCACN, GTO Nationals, etc). Would have been better to have a billboard like NJSteve used for his Charger. Saw some folks with these and wished I had the time to do one of my own.

-Thursday was pretty much dead compared to Friday. I spent some time standing by the car and did field a fair number of questions. My phone number was posted on the car on Thursday and Friday, but no phone calls. LOT more traffic and interest on Friday.

-Lots of folks appreciated how the car was done (original color, no Judge wing, no Judge stripes). Several folks, including a few forum members, commented on the level of the restoration, accolades, etc. Car seemed to appeal a lot more to the Pontiac crowd, which I expected. Car was also a known commodity to the Pontiac folks; they knew it from here, the Performance Years board, MCACN, Darrell's shop, and GTOAA Nationals.

-Met some forum members in person, and recognized a lot more names of folks that I didn't get to speak to. Spent a while talking to Don Stowers (67 Z/28 went through after my car), BillinOhio, Stefano Bimbi, John Kryta (Inline Tube), etc. Stefano introduced me to Lynn Yenko, which was pretty cool.

-The car was supposed to go across the block at 5:20 pm on Friday, but it went a bit earlier (45 minutes early?), which was fine. I think this was the right time to go across. Some folks said it didn't stay on the block long enough, auctioneer didn't work it enough, but I was fine with it. It went across when there was &quot;money in the room&quot; and those who were interested had the opportunity to bid on it while it was on the block and purchase it after it went across.

Overall it was a good experience. Kudos to Mecum for a well-organized and orchestrated event.

Appreciate all the tips from members here. It helped out a lot.

Thanks,

Scott