69 Camaro BB w Baldwin Chevy Connection

[mockingbird812]

Don Breen from Phoenix sent this email to me this morning. Tough looking car…

Gold 69 Camaro Craig's List Boston (http://boston.craigslist.org/sob/cto/4326380388.html)

[Charley Lillard]

I like the 250 emblem

[10-2ndmalibu]

Love the 250 fender emblem!!!! Sneaky, although Cragar's out back, headers and Stinger hood might give it away!!!!
Oh, almost forgot the solid lifter noise!!
Neat car though.

[scuncio]

That is super tempting. What do you guys think the real value of this car would be, running and driving?

[Xplantdad]

Cool!

[bbbentley]

Is that a Holley spread bore and C.Iron intake?

[mockingbird812]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2014/02/full-1691-9631-00p0p_htu5srql5qz_600x450.jpg

[luzl78]

I think that is worth 25,000 as is. Put 5,000 in it and drive it. Restored you'd have 75,000-80,000 into it.

[WILMASBOYL78]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: luzl78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think that is worth 25,000 as is. Put 5,000 in it and drive it. Restored you'd have 75,000-80,000 into it. </div></div>

According to the ad the car hasn't run in over 20 years...looks to be in pretty rough shape. I don't think you could rebuild the driveline and make it road worthy for $5k...maybe, but I doubt it.

As for the total resto cost...if it was done at premium shop, to a concours level...you would have more money than that in it.

Just a shame someone didn't take better care of it.

wilma

[PeteLeathersac]

VERY Cool!
Too bad about the lost paperwork.
VIN 124379N547560

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif
~ Pete

[scuncio]

I hesitate to say this without seeing the car, but I'll bet it could be a runner for under $5k provided there are no catastrophes in the drivetrain.

[Damien]

Awesome car. Hopefully someone steps up and it goes to a good home.

[L78M22Rag]

Very neat car... matching L78, and looks like it may have original paint except for the passenger fender? Has anyone checked it out, or requested photos of the engine stamping, etc?

[Smokey]

Chuck is probably over there sniffing it out already. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

[SeattleCarGuy]

One of my favorite colors on the '69. If I was ready for my next project, I would pay $30k for that car right now. Absolutely awesome in my humble opinion.

[69LM1]

Very complete car.... If it really is numbers matching, that would be cool. Wonder about the rear?

Should'nt the color be Olympic Gold?

Rich

[GTO_DON]

I know you guys love 69 camaro but cmon let's get real. Quarters cut up,needs all sheemetal,interior is wiped out,chrome shot, don't run,paperwork GONE,cmon really??? 50k later and you still have an undocumented car..Maybe I should go back to the guy I know with a original paint black L78 with its paperwork for 60k that I turned down and he can't sell it for over a year.

[bbbentley]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GTO_DON</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know you guys love 69 camaro but cmon let's get real. Quarters cut up,needs all sheemetal,interior is wiped out,chrome shot, don't run,paperwork GONE,cmon really??? 50k later and you still have an undocumented car..Maybe I should go back to the guy I know with a original paint black L78 with its paperwork for 60k that I turned down and he can't sell it for over a year. </div></div>
There is something mesmerizing about an un-restored Camaro...I find it interesting,but the price is a tad high,imo.These time capsules are intriguing.

[69 Post Sedan]

The price is high but as stated before....it's cool just the way it is. If a person could get it for a decent price, put some Marvel Mystery oil in the cylinders, then change all the fluids in the drivetrain and see if it will run. If it does, make it safe to drive and just leave it alone.

Kurt :twocents:

[GTO_DON]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bbbentley</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GTO_DON</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know you guys love 69 camaro but cmon let's get real. Quarters cut up,needs all sheemetal,interior is wiped out,chrome shot, don't run,paperwork GONE,cmon really??? 50k later and you still have an undocumented car..Maybe I should go back to the guy I know with a original paint black L78 with its paperwork for 60k that I turned down and he can't sell it for over a year. </div></div>
There is something mesmerizing about an un-restored Camaro...I find it interesting,but the price is a tad high,imo.These time capsules are intriguing. </div></div>Again,When did it become cool to drive a POS around anyway? When I was a kid if you had a car this cool in this sad shape your friends all made fun of you! This is by no means a TIME CAPSULE. That term should be used as it was ment. Something that's been tucked away and in mint condition. Not something that was left for dead. This is just a fad right now with everybody falling in love with junk. And then at the end of the day you guys will have 40k of your hard earned money driving around in this shitbox looking like you have no job. I think we need have more pride in ourselves like we used to and get back to making everything you have as nice as it can be. I have a couple extremely rare cars that are much nicer than this and I won't bring them out because me being a body and paint guy my whole life can't bring myself to drive them unless they are looking the way they were built. I guess next we'll be living old boarded up houses and wearing torn clothes because that would be COOL to look that way RIGHT?

[jasonL78]

WOW you hit the nail on the head! Internet restorers and people never doing a restoration have no idea what they are up against. At this price save your money for another year and buy one finished for 40-50K looking alot better than the one pictured. Everyone has or wants a 69 camaro just way over priced IMHO.

[WILMASBOYL78]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GTO_DON</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bbbentley</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GTO_DON</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know you guys love 69 camaro but cmon let's get real. Quarters cut up,needs all sheemetal,interior is wiped out,chrome shot, don't run,paperwork GONE,cmon really??? 50k later and you still have an undocumented car..Maybe I should go back to the guy I know with a original paint black L78 with its paperwork for 60k that I turned down and he can't sell it for over a year. </div></div>
There is something mesmerizing about an un-restored Camaro...I find it interesting,but the price is a tad high,imo.These time capsules are intriguing. </div></div>Again,When did it become cool to drive a POS around anyway? When I was a kid if you had a car this cool in this sad shape your friends all made fun of you! This is by no means a TIME CAPSULE. That term should be used as it was ment. Something that's been tucked away and in mint condition. Not something that was left for dead. This is just a fad right now with everybody falling in love with junk. And then at the end of the day you guys will have 40k of your hard earned money driving around in this shitbox looking like you have no job. I think we need have more pride in ourselves like we used to and get back to making everything you have as nice as it can be. I have a couple extremely rare cars that are much nicer than this and I won't bring them out because me being a body and paint guy my whole life can't bring myself to drive them unless they are looking the way they were built. I guess next we'll be living old boarded up houses and wearing torn clothes because that would be COOL to look that way RIGHT? </div></div>

<span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="font-family: 'Microsoft Sans Serif'">Donnie...you need to get more in touch with your inner self...we need to know how you really feel <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif </span></span>

wilma <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/flag.gif

[GTO_DON]

Trust me Tom! You don't want to know show I really feel. I picked a bad week to quit Heroin. Now HERE'S TOM WITH the weather!

[302moz]

I agree with Don. This car is a basket case not worth restoring with zero docs. The cost to do a correct restoration is insane. I am in the middle of one right now.

[Dicky]

You guys keep me entertained.... Thanks. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/haha.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/youguysrock.gif

Dicky <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/flag.gif

[Salvatore]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 69 Post Sedan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The price is high but as stated before....it's cool just the way it is. If a person could get it for a decent price, put some Marvel Mystery oil in the cylinders, then change all the fluids in the drivetrain and see if it will run. If it does, make it safe to drive and just leave it alone.

Kurt :twocents:</div></div>
KB, first time I disagreed with you. JUNK! Who would really ride around in that? I guess I should sit my nova outside for a few years in our snow storms and when it looks like this camaro or some of the other ones its time to drive it. Would you ever think about driving a car that looked like that when you were growing up in the hobby? Come on guys, is it the winter blues or something or just bad water these days.

[Mr70]

I think most who admire this car are speaking from seeing everything over restored today.
It is a refreshing site in that respect,but I too agree it's not worth that asking price and would easily be back on the market after a buyer added up all the costs &amp; figured that out.
I've seen cars in this condition or better,in junkyards around here asking 1/2 as much.

[WILMASBOYL78]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GTO_DON</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Trust me Tom! You don't want to know show I really feel. I picked a bad week to quit Heroin. Now HERE'S TOM WITH the weather! </div></div>

Well...we got 4 inches on the ground and it's coming down heavy...found this picture of Sammy putting on some studded snows back in the day...these same tires are still available from Donnie White <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2014/02/full-1121-9659-th.jpg

[Salvatore]

so is the car!

[scott s]

If its what the guy says it is a real #s matching l78 car unrestored then y do u need docs? Id rather buy a #s l78 car this way with no docs(if its real) then a restored supposed car with a &quot;he said she said &quot;story. If anybody has a 69 ss camaro 396/375 4spd documented car for under 30 k let me know.

[MosportGreen66]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GTO_DON</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bbbentley</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GTO_DON</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know you guys love 69 camaro but cmon let's get real. Quarters cut up,needs all sheemetal,interior is wiped out,chrome shot, don't run,paperwork GONE,cmon really??? 50k later and you still have an undocumented car..Maybe I should go back to the guy I know with a original paint black L78 with its paperwork for 60k that I turned down and he can't sell it for over a year. </div></div>
There is something mesmerizing about an un-restored Camaro...I find it interesting,but the price is a tad high,imo.These time capsules are intriguing. </div></div>Again,When did it become cool to drive a POS around anyway? When I was a kid if you had a car this cool in this sad shape your friends all made fun of you! This is by no means a TIME CAPSULE. That term should be used as it was ment. Something that's been tucked away and in mint condition. Not something that was left for dead. This is just a fad right now with everybody falling in love with junk. And then at the end of the day you guys will have 40k of your hard earned money driving around in this shitbox looking like you have no job. I think we need have more pride in ourselves like we used to and get back to making everything you have as nice as it can be. I have a couple extremely rare cars that are much nicer than this and I won't bring them out because me being a body and paint guy my whole life can't bring myself to drive them unless they are looking the way they were built. I guess next we'll be living old boarded up houses and wearing torn clothes because that would be COOL to look that way RIGHT?</div></div>

Wait what?! Frame of reference bud...

I would rather own/drive/enjoy/spit polish/beat the shit out of/fall in love with/correct/and cherish that gold L78 than any of the half restored spray booth specials you can find in any where internet land including from on this site including from members who posted in this very thread. Why don't spray booth specials ever sell? They're not honest cars and 9/10 times over priced, rushed, lacking craftsmanship and have no character.

No one has seen this car in person (unless I'm wrong?). No one knows a lick about the cowl tag, engine pad, condition of the metal, drivetrain and other mechanics parts. You're basing an assessment off of craigslist photos.

The L78 here pending inspection, appears to be a wonderful entry level L78 with a bad ass story and with some TLC would make for a fun ride. Leave as is and enjoy. If I didn't already have a &quot;piece of shit&quot; [as defined in this thread - asinine], I would all over this car.

EDIT - now we're going to bring up this debate again? Giving real cars a bad reputation because no documents exist?! Guys, I know its winter but come on!

[WILMASBOYL78]

Well, you can really tell when the weather is bad...we are all inside staying warm in the virtual world <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif

I agree that a survivor car with an original driveline and no docs. is fine...especially when they have been out of circulation this long. I also agree that the survivor type cars are more fun and in many ways more interesting than the cookie cutter high dollar restos...I can say that because I have owned a few...just like many others here.

What is the real condition and how much would it cost to get this car road worthy...I guess we won't know until somebody here buys it...so come on boys...spread the wealth <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

[bbbentley]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WILMASBOYL78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, you can really tell when the weather is bad...we are all inside staying warm in the virtual world <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif

What is the real condition and how much would it cost to get this car road worthy...I guess we won't know until somebody here buys it...so come on boys...spread the wealth <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif </div></div>
That's the problem, my wealth is spread all over the shop in pieces right now <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif

[Salvatore]

I do not really like frame off stuff but I do like them repainted and cleaned up. Full blown restorations are necessary on some cars but not all. I like them road worthy in nice condition. Not a rat rod type of guy. Like survivors the best and I know Don does too. He drives everything he has whether its is a restored Ram Air IV car or a survivor 6 banger pickup.

[GTO_DON]

That's why there's vanilla and chocolate Dan or blondes and brunettes if you will. If you want to drive a piece of shit around that's your right. And what badass story we talking about because it was picked up at Baldwin chevy??? Big deal! What's that mean anyway? Maybe seems cool to you because your from up that way. I guess I would think it's cool if it came from Reedman chevy but you have to call a spade a spade at some point. If you can't see that body needs work then I'm sorry but it looks like it hit everything but the lottery to me. Those quarters are cut pretty high to me. And again I'm sorry and not trying to piss you off really I'm not but cars without paper docs and good owner history never sell for big money! That's the way of the world. I didn't make the rules, that's just the way it is. You guys know that. I really wish you would buy it. Then get back to me when you want to sell it after you spent all the money it needs to get back of running and driving. Then you'll know what I'm talking about. I am not attacking you in any way but you always seem to get really pissed off when I make a point about a certain car. I've been in this hobby/Business longer than you've been alive and have owned and restored some very rare cars which I drive and beat the shit out of no matter how much they are worth so I think I know what I'm talking about and have a right to an opinion but remember it's just my opinion. No big deal. Let's be friends . Now I'm going back to shovel some MORE snow.You will have to shovel later I'm sure.

[mockingbird812]

<span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="font-style: italic">&quot;...but it looks like it hit everything but the lottery to me.&quot;</span></span>

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/haha.gif

[WILMASBOYL78]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mockingbird812</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="font-style: italic">&quot;...but it looks like it hit everything but the lottery to me.&quot;</span></span>

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/haha.gif </div></div>

You gotta love Donnie...smooth as 80 grit!

But, a softy on the inside <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/3gears.gif

[Steve Shauger]

Some of the post are getting quite personal which is neither acceptable or necessary. We all have the right to an opinion.

Ok, here's mine with a couple of points:

If you pay someone to do a full concours level restoration you will be upsidedown in it based on the photos. If you want top dollar most buyers want documentation.

I have a passion for unrestored cars and get asked quite often what to do with cars, restore or leave alone (some cars are survivors and some just survived). If you were to do the bare minimum (thats to be determined) to get it drivable the question is; can you live with the way it looks? This car has great appeal because its a true L78.

I think everyone has different taste, knowledge, skills and pockets. Thats why there's always going to be a buyer for cars at all levels.

When I first started out, factory documentation was critical for me, as I've gained knowledge its not as critical. When a car is right it tells you a story and in can document itself.

Now someone buy this car, bring it to the GM Nationals and have it Vintage Certified <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif.

[mockingbird812]

shameless promotion Steve <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/no.gif ............... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif

P.S. This is good banter and reminds me of the way it used to be 'round here!

[Salvatore]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WILMASBOYL78</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mockingbird812</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="font-style: italic">&quot;...but it looks like it hit everything but the lottery to me.&quot;</span></span>

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/haha.gif </div></div>

You gotta love Donnie...smooth as 80 grit!

But, a softy on the inside <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/3gears.gif </div></div>

&quot;one&quot; of the reasons why I hang with him.

[WILMASBOYL78]

Too bad it doesn't have &quot;aluminum heads&quot;...that would really spice things this up <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif

[67 Nova Boy]

I have a special Snap-on buffer that will fix all the rough spots! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

A gallon of Armor All on the inside...look 10 years newer. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

Don is right in so many ways...needs a ton of work... getting it running is slim but possible. Buy it and put it away till the funds or parts catch up to restore it the way it was back in the day. This car could be a great Big Block Camaro. Leave the hood at least get it in Black primer. So many options with this car but not at 30,000 half would be more gooder! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/drool.gif

Dave
67 Nova Boy

[SeattleCarGuy]

Lots of energy on this thread, but then again, everyone is entitled to their opinions and everyone can spend their own money the way they want to.

Personally, I really like L78 Camaro's, Nova's and Chevelle's. I am about 30% through my own frame-off restoration on a '69 L78 Nova bought from a member here. I paid $20k for a project L78 Nova. Maybe I could have found one cheaper, bargained harder or held out for the best deal, but to me it was a fair deal for a restorable car with original drivetrain. I love doing the work myself, all I can except the body work and paint and a few little things I farm out. But hours upon hours upon hours spent in my shop after wife and kid have gone to bed are pure heaven to me and allow me to forget work stress, economy stress and everything else. It will probably cost me all in $45k to restore my Nova, so I'll be in it for $65k. I don't care, as I plan on keeping the car and adding another one to my collection when its done by seeking out another L78 Camaro, Z-28 Camaro or LS6 Chevelle to do. Its what I enjoy doing and when my 4 year old is a bit older, he'll hopefully join me out there before bed time. I don't think we have to look at every car out there as something we'd be underwater on or as a POS, etc. To each his own. If I'm dumb enough to pay $20k for a restorable L78 Nova, I'd surely pay $30k for this Camaro. And, if my Nova were 90% done right now, I'd end this debate by buying this Camaro.

At any rate, we all enjoy the hobby for different reasons, as it should be.

[CanCOPO]

Just give it time. I'm sure it will have aluminum heads, JL8 brakes and God knows what else.

[MosportGreen66]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GTO_DON</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's why there's vanilla and chocolate Dan or blondes and brunettes if you will. If you want to drive a piece of shit around that's your right. And what badass story we talking about because it was picked up at Baldwin chevy??? Big deal! What's that mean anyway? Maybe seems cool to you because your from up that way. I guess I would think it's cool if it came from Reedman chevy but you have to call a spade a spade at some point. </div></div>

The car is loaded up on day-2 parts. The story might be untold at the moment but the parts clearly indicate such. A hi-performance dealer is cool regardless of location. The NCRS paperwork maybe able to support claims.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GTO_DON</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If you can't see that body needs work then I'm sorry but it looks like it hit everything but the lottery to me. Those quarters are cut pretty high to me. And again I'm sorry and not trying to piss you off really I'm not but cars without paper docs and good owner history never sell for big money! </div></div>

Don, you're not pissing me off. You're looking at this Camaro through the lens of a business. I'm not.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GTO_DON</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> That's the way of the world. I didn't make the rules, that's just the way it is. You guys know that. I really wish you would buy it. Then get back to me when you want to sell it after you spent all the money it needs to get back of running and driving. Then you'll know what I'm talking about. I am not attacking you in any way but you always seem to get really pissed off when I make a point about a certain car. I've been in this hobby/Business longer than you've been alive and have owned and restored some very rare cars which I drive and beat the shit out of no matter how much they are worth so I think I know what I'm talking about and have a right to an opinion but remember it's just my opinion. No big deal. Let's be friends . Now I'm going back to shovel some MORE snow.You will have to shovel later I'm sure. </div></div>

Again, I am not pissed off. You have the wrong impression. What frustrates me is your underlying theme. If you continue to stifle the next generation of enthusiasts who adore the day lights out of these &quot;pieces of shit&quot; you're ultimately going to hurt your own investment. Who my age is buying these cars? Fads and popular theme change - day 2, street freak, etc happened throughout time as tastes changed and generations came and went. As I've said before, enjoy the individualism of these cars and respect tastes. Its unbecoming to strong arm someone in an online debate with the sentiment of age, experience, and generation when ultimately its a flip-flopped argument.

Dan

[resto4u]

I hope someone buys this car, gets docs and sells for a home run. Like that has never happened before. Then see what people have to say, just total silence. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/burnout.gif

[Stefano]

I like my olds blue jeans and T-shirts <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

[Tracker1]

I've been into/obsessed with factory-built American high-performance cars since the late '70s - early 80s... 12 years old.

During that time we've seen the restoration trend where a pretty good used car became a shiny show car (think Musclecar Review's resto of that LeMans Blue '69 Z28 in '82 or'83), accompanied by the boom in the re-pop parts biz. The same magazine spawned the term &quot;restification&quot; where subtle mods made your show car a nice driver with better brakes, better steering and a few more ponies, but nobody could see any of it just looking under the hood - the current F.A.S.T. race cars can trace their existence to that same term first coined in MCR. Then we started to see crazy, over-the-top restorations, e.g., guys like Roger Gibson where original paint runs and phosphate finishes on the heads of bolts were/are duplicated in almost obsessive compulsive detail, turning their nose up at the use of ANY re-pop parts. Then the term 'Survivor' was taken from the Corvette folks and applied to any muscle car retaining most of its original personality and identity under a sheen of &quot;patina&quot;. Then, hot on the heels of that, discovering a &quot;Barn Find&quot; became all the rage...everything now has spent time in a GD barn, &quot;comes with original rat poop in the glove box&quot;.

Now this &quot;rat muscle&quot; trend has taken hold: a barn find hauled from a shed or a backyard that looks like with a week's work it could actually run around the block - and that's what this Camaro represents to some people - Rat Muscle. (though I think a week's work for this particular Rod is a bit optimistic)

Now, that's four or five evolutions of stock musclecar (not including G-machines here) enjoyment, usage and associated terminology in just over 30 years. Trends are trends, you can't ignore them. Some people like a new trend, some people don't. There are definitely people who will salivate over this car because it looks crusty. And some who think it's a POS.

But if we all liked the same thing...

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Looks like my Deuce when I bought it back in '96! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/eek.gif Just like my Deuce, you have to simply 'want it' because it's the car for you, regardless as to whether you are upside down in the end. However, I couldn't drive it like that, how embarrassing would that be?!! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif

[GTO_DON]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MosportGreen66</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GTO_DON</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's why there's vanilla and chocolate Dan or blondes and brunettes if you will. If you want to drive a piece of shit around that's your right. And what badass story we talking about because it was picked up at Baldwin chevy??? Big deal! What's that mean anyway? Maybe seems cool to you because your from up that way. I guess I would think it's cool if it came from Reedman chevy but you have to call a spade a spade at some point. </div></div>

The car is loaded up on day-2 parts. The story might be untold at the moment but the parts clearly indicate such. A hi-performance dealer is cool regardless of location. The NCRS paperwork maybe able to support claims.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GTO_DON</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If you can't see that body needs work then I'm sorry but it looks like it hit everything but the lottery to me. Those quarters are cut pretty high to me. And again I'm sorry and not trying to piss you off really I'm not but cars without paper docs and good owner history never sell for big money! </div></div>

Don, you're not pissing me off. You're looking at this Camaro through the lens of a business. I'm not.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GTO_DON</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> That's the way of the world. I didn't make the rules, that's just the way it is. You guys know that. I really wish you would buy it. Then get back to me when you want to sell it after you spent all the money it needs to get back of running and driving. Then you'll know what I'm talking about. I am not attacking you in any way but you always seem to get really pissed off when I make a point about a certain car. I've been in this hobby/Business longer than you've been alive and have owned and restored some very rare cars which I drive and beat the shit out of no matter how much they are worth so I think I know what I'm talking about and have a right to an opinion but remember it's just my opinion. No big deal. Let's be friends . Now I'm going back to shovel some MORE snow.You will have to shovel later I'm sure. </div></div>
Qq
Again, I am not pissed off. You have the wrong impression. What frustrates me is your underlying theme. If you continue to stifle the next generation of enthusiasts who adore the day lights out of these &quot;pieces of shit&quot; you're ultimately going to hurt your own investment. Who my age is buying these cars? Fads and popular theme change - day 2, street freak, etc happened throughout time as tastes changed and generations came and went. As I've said before, enjoy the individualism of these cars and respect tastes. Its unbecoming to strong arm someone in an online debate with the sentiment of age, experience, and generation when ultimately its a flip-flopped argument.

Dan </div></div>That's where we differ Dan. You don't know anything about me and you couldn't be more wrong about me. We should talk this spring at the show and then you will understand where I'm coming from. I am not looking at this from a businessman point of view at all. Anyone close to me will tell you I buy most of my cars with my heart and lots of times lose money on them because I want them right more than I want to line my pockets. There's been times when I could have made money on a car just flipping it but I always have to put my touch on it and sometimes I make less for working on it but I get a feeling of accomplishment when I see a car come full circle and that's much more important to me in the end. I hate when I have to sell one of my cars because they mean a lot to me but my family has to eat and I'm not rich except in personality..(just see if your listening) Believe me when I tell you I truly want a younger generation to love these cars like me. Hell,I brought my son home from the Hospital in a 69 Ram air GTO JUDGE and the very first picture I took of him was on the hood in his bassinet next to the hood tach with the ram air decals positioned perfectly next to him so believe me NOBODY is a bigger fanatic of cars. I am not driven by the money but I am also a realist and if your smart like a lot of the guys on this site you have to treat these cars like an investment also incase of loss of job,illness or even death so I don't just piss my money away on a whimsical buy. You have to be smarter than that and I'm actually surprised that don't feel that way because Sammy tells me your a very smart well educated kid. And yes age and experience does fall into the equation here. I'm just trying to be the voice of reason for you and don't want to see anyone hurt in the end buying this car. I have no ill Will toward you,I just hate all these overpriced cars and the fact that sellers are taking advantage of this barn find craze where in right now. Now back to the weather!!!!

[Dicky]

I'm running out of popcorn..... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

Dicky <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/flag.gif

[daverd]

That camaros been advertised. It's an overpriced junk pile ....
Off and on for years
Porter Chevrolet is now a honda
Only dealer it's located in Cambridge
Ma ( my friend ran the dealership
And when the owner dropped Chevrolet
My buddy gave me all of the parts
Department parts books....
It was a Chevrolet dealer
For many many years 50+

[WILMASBOYL78]

&quot;Now back to the weather!!!!&quot;..

Sleeting here in upstate NY...should be lovely in the morning <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/thumbsdown.gif

[Salvatore]

Donny has some nice snow tires for that camaro. Period correct!

[mockingbird812]

<span style="font-size: 14pt">I'll buy someone a beverage of their choice if they bring one of their muscle cars to the next MCACN shod with some vintage snow tires. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif</span>

[sixtiesmuscle]

Sam, there are usually some at the show, but in the barn find display &amp; probably on the front.

[69 Post Sedan]

Having a 900+ point car is a non issue with some or even one with a shiny paint job. Some like to actually drive their cars without worrying about a bug getting on it. Some could care less about having a car with lot's of paper work. There are lots of cars out there with the original drivetrain with no POP that we know are original.

It might have some rust or a dent.....I personally like the car. Is it worth 30k?......beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Hell, Julia Roberts married Lyle Lovett....not for very long, but you I think you get the point. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif

Anyway...I get what's being said and respect all sides but sometimes being upside down on a purchase of a car isn't the only thing in this hobby, enjoying it is and from what a lot of us here see, a little work &quot;might&quot; bring that out in this car. If the car is completely rotted and the motor is trash.....than that's another issue. My glass is half full.

Kurt <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif:

P.S. Sammy, if this is the only thing we disagree on....we're doing good. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

[GTO_DON]

[quote=mockingbird812]<span style="font-size: 14pt">I'll buy someone a beverage of their choice if they bring one of their muscle cars to the next MCACN shod with some vintage snow tires. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif</span> [/quote. That plan was already in effect. I will be there with them on my car!

[enio45]

Somebody go look at the car and get more info!!!

[mockingbird812]

Eddie - you NEED this project. Projects are drying up at your shop these days!!!! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif

[mockingbird812]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mockingbird812</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-size: 14pt">I'll buy someone a beverage of their choice if they bring one of their muscle cars to the next MCACN shod with some vintage snow tires. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif</span> </div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Studded</span></span> snow tires will get you 2 drinks!!!! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

[Salvatore]

GO EDDIE GO,GO EDDIE GO!

[TDW]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mockingbird812</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mockingbird812</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-size: 14pt">I'll buy someone a beverage of their choice if they bring one of their muscle cars to the next MCACN shod with some vintage snow tires. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif</span> </div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Studded</span></span> snow tires will get you 2 drinks!!!! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif </div></div>

I kid you not, there is a driveway just down the street from me that has the studded snow tire grooves that I left there over 40 years ago with my 67 SS Camaro.. My best friend lived there, now deceased, and his dad had a fit when he seen the grooves. I smile everytime I see them. OK, back to topic at hand.

[mockingbird812]

Cool. post a photo!!!!

[GTO_DON]

Now I know where my 1st 2 drinks are coming from....

[68l30]

Studded snow burnouts.... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/3gears.gif

Sill have a set of grooves in my Dads garage.......Atlas Snow Kings on my Camaro when I bought it! I think he's still pissed.... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif


BIG

[Salvatore]

HAAA!

[427TJ]

If you got this Camaro running and carefully cleaned and carefully detailed it, without screwing up the patina and the vibe, you could drive this into any old-guy cruise night or even a Goodguys fairground show and the sniffers would be all over it before you parked, sniffing for the money. You couldn't get the hood open fast enough. Guys would be looking underneath and inside, iPhones snapping pics like crazy, and they'd pepper you with questions as if you were in police custody for murder. The pics would be on the Internet within an hour and the discussion would be off like a moon rocket. Best part is you'd have a cool (mostly) unmolested Day 2 '69 L78 Camaro.

[MosportGreen66]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427TJ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you got this Camaro running and carefully cleaned and carefully detailed it, without screwing up the patina and the vibe, you could drive this into any old-guy cruise night or even a Goodguys fairground show and the sniffers would be all over it before you parked, sniffing for the money. You couldn't get the hood open fast enough. Guys would be looking underneath and inside, iPhones snapping pics like crazy, and they'd pepper you with questions as if you were in police custody for murder. The pics would be on the Internet within an hour and the discussion would be off like a moon rocket. Best part is you'd have a cool (mostly) unmolested Day 2 '69 L78 Camaro. </div></div>

/thread

Well said

[Xplantdad]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mockingbird812</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mockingbird812</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-size: 14pt">I'll buy someone a beverage of their choice if they bring one of their muscle cars to the next MCACN shod with some vintage snow tires. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif</span> </div></div>

<span style="font-size: 20pt"><span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Studs with</span></span> snow tires will get you 2 drinks!!!! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif</span> </div></div>

Okay Sam...you have me worried now. I think the midwest is getting to you....LOL

[anodyne33]

Noob here... and a guy who really, really misses his hot rodded (by somebody else earlier in it's life) '69.

My $.02, man, if I had $20k and could show up at this guys door and walk away with it, and had another few bucks to get the drive train back into running order and fix the body... I'm not the guy would would have to have NOS sheet metal or a period correct pulley...

Basically, I've seen some really nice local recreation cars for around $30k that are great, but they're not L78 cars with Baldwin style hoods.

I could just see it being a fun ass driver.

[mockingbird812]

Hey Shane - welcome aboard. Always nice having Picksburg guys around here! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

[anodyne33]

Thank you Sam. I actually grew up in Latrobe and lived there until a few years ago too. I had heard rumors of a garage that I'd passed 1000 times having some &quot;special&quot; Camaros in it, but I didn't know jack schitt about SCW until I registered here. (smacks forehead!) And Joe even grew up next to my grandparents' and I still had no idea!

[Salvatore]

well now you do!

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: anodyne33</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thank you Sam. I actually grew up in Latrobe and lived there until a few years ago too. I had heard rumors of a garage that I'd passed 1000 times having some &quot;special&quot; Camaros in it, but I didn't know jack schitt about SCW until I registered here. (smacks forehead!) And Joe even grew up next to my grandparents' and I still had no idea! </div></div>

Ha! Joey flies below the radar.....

[anodyne33]

I do remember back when I was a kid the Cyclone that he dug up and brought home from Ohio and turned into an amazing head turner... but that's for another thread... okay, enough for my threadjack.

Somebody talk some sense into this guy, get this car for a reasonable price, give it some love, and set it loose again on the world!

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: anodyne33</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Somebody talk some sense into this guy, get this car for a reasonable price, give it some love, and set it loose again on the world! </div></div>

Sounds like you are 'that guy'!

[daverd]

Went to look at it with a friend of mine (realty
Company owner) friend brought cash very close to what owner
Wants now
No sale ......
The Camaro owner thinks he got a gold mine
There ( more like a golden turd)
Good luck on that sale .
Car needs full resto.... And then some...

[GTO_DON]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: daverd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Went to look at it with a friend of mine (realty
Company owner) friend brought cash very close to what owner
Wants now
No sale ......
The Camaro owner thinks he got a gold mine
There ( more like a golden turd)
Good luck on that sale .
Car needs full resto.... And then some...

</div></div>Well said!

[mockingbird812]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: daverd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Went to look at it with a friend of mine (realty
Company owner) friend brought cash very close to what owner
Wants now
No sale ......
The Camaro owner thinks he got a gold mine
There ( more like a golden turd)
Good luck on that sale .
Car needs full resto.... And then some...

</div></div>

Did u guys get some better pix to post? More details please.

[scott s]

I assume if u guys made him a &quot;close to asking price&quot; offer that it is indeed a all#s matching orig L78 car at least?

[daverd]

Looked to be &quot;numbers matching&quot;
I was just ther for support
My pal is a Chevrolet guy
He knows more about
Correctness on camaros
Than I do ... ( No paperwork found or
Mentioned ) great history but again no paperwork...
Just an old muscle car
Run hard and put away wet ..
So to speak ..
Well is the car wort restoring ?
He likes a car with paperwork as I do ....
( I have some paperwork for my car )
The offer he made was VERY
Reasonable cash in hand ..
So he walked .. As I said my
Friend can afford to restore this car
( he has several frame off restored
Muscle cars ) Ias we all know these cars
take very substantial investments
To obtain and restore ... Some us
Prefer a paper trail before
Investing in them
I'm with gto dons comments
On this ... Ziggy l78
You can take a ride down to new
England to look at this car
It's not too far for you to go....
I'm done w this .....

[ZiggyL78]

Nothing has been mentioned about the build sheet.If I looked at this car and found out that no attempt has been made to remove any of the seats,door panels or gas tank,I would be very interested.If the rear or trans turned out to be original to the car and proper for an L78,I would buy it.I sure wouldn't walk just because the owner wouldn't drop on his price.At 25K I think this car would be getting a lot more press and 5K either way,means nothing to me.Take a Battery,headers and plugs and see if the car runs.I'm sure that if you showed the seller some cash,he wouldn't mind you trying to get to run.

I understand the barn find deal but why do guys try and sell a car like this and don't spend a couple of days cleaning it up?The interior is not that bad and if you could some how tell that the front seat was original,it could be a low mileage car.Clean it up,throw some used headers and mufflers on the car and get it running.Add some used Rally wheels or nice Cragars.If you can't do most of the work and want to fully restore a car like this then maybe you should keep looking.To someone that knows how to do most of the work except for say paint,I think it's a good deal.
Sh*t.It's a gold 69 big block SS 4 speed!What more do you want?

[Salvatore]

with all the above said.....how come this car is still for sale if it is a good deal, worth the money, a rare car, don't care about paperwork, just needs some TLC or whatever? get this car bought and maybe to the SLS this year.

[njsteve]

I do love the CL ad quote:

&quot;Body in decent condition for 45 year old Ma veh&quot;

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/haha.gif

You don't have to drive a car in the winter in Massachusetts for it to rust away. The salt air near the Mass coast vaporizes sheetmetal especially in places where condensation forms, like internal gaps between panels. So that quote is one helluva disclaimer.

[luzl78]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I do love the CL ad quote:

&quot;Body in decent condition for 45 year old Ma veh&quot;

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/haha.gif

You don't have to drive a car in the winter in Massachusetts for it to rust away. The salt air near the Mass coast vaporizes sheetmetal especially in places where condensation forms, like internal gaps between panels. So that quote is one helluva disclaimer. </div></div>it's fine. It was in a climate controlled barn protected from the elements.

[bkhpah]

I like the idea of the car at SLS6! I'd bet there is a lot of things that could be documented on a car like that....BKH

[daverd]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I do love the CL ad quote:

&quot;Body in decent condition for 45 year old Ma veh&quot;

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/haha.gif

You don't have to drive a car in the winter in Massachusetts for it to rust away. The salt air near the Mass coast vaporizes sheetmetal especially in places where condensation forms, like internal gaps between panels. So that quote is one helluva disclaimer. </div></div>
See above 30.000 bucks for a rusty car is not cheap by most
People's standards unless you do the work
Yourself ..... You will have 100k in it
Could you get that back ??????
Doubtful on most muscle cars these days ....
Now I'm finished w this ....I'm with
What gto don said in this thread .....
If this car was such a deal for 30k or close
It would have sold by now it has been for sale
Before .... !!!!

[Salvatore]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bkhpah</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like the idea of the car at SLS6! I'd bet there is a lot of things that could be documented on a car like that....BKH</div></div>

maybe that car can be rented for a weekend or so. its just sitting there.

[GTO_DON]

Rent A Wreck went out of business years ago.

[Ryan1969Chevelle]

That Gold L78 4 speed really pulls on my heart strings.

Would love to see some close up pictures.

Ryan

[scuncio]

Oh you guys. If this had been a member's car we would all be saying what a great survivor it was and fairly priced! ;-)

[69 Post Sedan]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: daverd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Went to look at it with a friend of mine (realty Company owner) friend brought cash very close to what owner Wants now
No sale ......The Camaro owner thinks he got a gold mine There ( more like a golden turd)
Good luck on that sale.
Car needs full resto.... And then some...</div></div>

That's too bad your friend didn't get the car. Did he inspect the condition of the floors, trunk, frame etc...? The reason I ask is the bottom of the driver's side door looked decent in the one picture. Did he confirm it was a numbers matching motor?

It sounds like the owner is firm which is too bad as it would probably sell if he came down a little. As long as it has the original drivetrain, paperwork really isn't an issue but he's trying to sell the BM story without anything substantial backing it up.

Thanks for the update, Kurt

[bashton]

Actually, this has already been done at MCACN. The original &quot;barn find&quot; appearance at MCACN was the 1967 427/435 Corvette that we had in the 2011 show. It was shod with whitewall snow tires, exactly as found!

Bashton
MCACN Managing Member

[Smokey]

25k won't buy it.

[Mr70]

He should take that 25K.

[Salvatore]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: scuncio</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh you guys. If this had been a member's car we would all be saying what a great survivor it was and fairly priced! ;-) </div></div>

Not sure I would say that Tony. Does not look like alot has survived on that car from here.

[69LM1]

Out of curiosity.... Do many 69 Camaro L78's have their original engines? I ask because many 70 Z28's don't, but have trim tags that denote them as Z28's. When I am looking at a 70Z, I personally value it more if it is an original engine vehicle.

I agree that 25 would be a fair number for this car, but if this was your &quot;dream&quot; car, 30k for a keeper is not that big a difference in the grand scheme of things.

Rich

[scuncio]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: [email protected]</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: scuncio</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh you guys. If this had been a member's car we would all be saying what a great survivor it was and fairly priced! ;-) </div></div>

Not sure I would say that Tony. Does not look like alot has survived on that car from here. </div></div>

Just my experience Sam, but I have to disagree. Even in the early 1990s when I was looking for my first car, most of the 1st gen X33/X66 Camaros already had small blocks or incorrect 454s. The fact that this thing has survived in a late-70s time warp with the original motor is pretty amazing IMO. We're talking 35-ish untouched years.

[Salvatore]

In that respect YES. But how much can really be saved as in &quot;survivor&quot; status is questionable. Would not mind having it but I think it would take alot of work to make it a strong #2 car!

[Jack_Tar]

OK, I'm jumping in here on page 11 of this thing. I read the first couple pages so this my be a repeat, I'm not sure. So no docs, what about a build sheet? It may be in a door or under a seat. The paint can be wet sanded and buffed and my detail guy can bring that interior back to the best condition possible considering what is in the car. With no repaint, just restoring the paint that is there and replacing the missing stripe, pull the motor, disassemble and check it. Replace only what it needs (NOS if possible)and reassemble it without repainting it, but cleaning it and the engine bay, service the trans and rear and redoing all of the breaks and making it safe. Your looking at a little more than 5K, but not by a lot. Buy it for $30K if that is THE car you want, possibly find a build sheet in it and be driving it cleaned up, but by no means &quot;Restored&quot; for around or maybe a little less than $40K. If that is worth the investment to you, why not. Drive it for a few years, cruise around town in it and take it to the drag strip and run in the slightly modified class or put the manifolds back on it and run strictly stock. Have fun with it and wait a few years to put the &quot;Restoration&quot; money in it. Depending on how mush sheet metal it will need, you will still have more invested in total that you can sell it for, but you enjoyed it and had fun with it and drove you initial investment out of it so to speak, you had fun with it and so a further big investment won't hurt you feelings so bad. By that time it may be worth more than your total investment anyway, and you had fun in it. If it is the &quot;born with&quot; drive train, it may be a good long term investment if you look at it from a profit standpoint.