ZL-1 #27 IS FOR SALE ON EBAY

[resto4u]

Really bad looking cowl tag job.

[69LM1]

Wow, and that tag on the air cleaner? What's up with that?
Of course no mention of the back story.


http://www.use.com/images/s_2/3a1f6a2ff4d3f664b3cb_30.jpg

[Lynn]

I must be going blind. I don't even see a pic of the cowl tag.

And for those who don't know the story:

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/306777/1

[69LM1]

http://www.use.com/images/s_2/3a1f6a2ff4d3f664b3cb_35.jpg

Rich

[iluv69s]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 69LM1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> http://www.use.com/images/s_2/3a1f6a2ff4d3f664b3cb_35.jpg

Rich </div></div>



that's ugly.... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif

[mr 707]

the tag looks FAKE.

[Lynn]

Doesn't just look fake. It is fake.

[m22mike]

Guys, easy there, it's not fake, it's a &quot;REAL REPRODUCTION TAG&quot; <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/bs.gif nice job on the rivet sealer too... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif...do I see fingerprints in there too. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif

[resto4u]

You mean they for got to mention re-body, minor details........

[Kurt S]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/331128443360

[iluv69s]

Where does Chuck come into the whole story?? The ad never mentions him??

[Born30YrsLate]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: iluv69s</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where does Chuck come into the whole story?? The ad never mentions him?? </div></div>

If you go to the link in the third post (by Lynn) it takes you to the details when Chuck owned the car in the 1970s...perhaps the exclusion of him was by strategic design.

[Lynn]

Yeah, seller conveniently leaves Chuck out of the owner history.
Like a couple of others have said, thanks to Chuck Sharin for stepping up with the truth, regardless of how painful that truth may be.

I couldn't find the trim tag because I was looking at the wrong car. There is also a &quot;tribute&quot; ZL-1 on ebay. It is the same color as the ZedL-1 being marketed (whatever that is).

Someone needs to tell the seller it is not legal to sell or import that car to Oklahoma.

[Charley Lillard]

I was at the dealer and what he is posting about the drag racer and the trunk floor being cut etc is in a report from I think Copo connection. I think that report confuses the drag racer with Chuck. Chuck is not listed in the report. He has it priced in rebody price range.

[Xplantdad]

Zed L1...is ZL1...Zed is &quot;Z&quot; it's what the Canadians call it <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> zed (z&amp;#277;d)
n. Chiefly British
The letter z.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Middle English, from Old French zede, from Late Latin z&amp;#275;ta, zeta, from Greek; see zeta.]
</div></div>

[Ryan1969Chevelle]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Xplantdad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Zed L1...is ZL1...Zed is &quot;Z&quot; it's what the Canadians call it <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> zed (z&amp;#277;d)
n. Chiefly British
The letter z.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Middle English, from Old French zede, from Late Latin z&amp;#275;ta, zeta, from Greek; see zeta.]
</div></div> </div></div>


You need the American to Canadian translation guide, usually discussed over &quot;good&quot; beers.

Ryan

[m22mike]

What the heck happened to &quot;Zulu&quot; and &quot;Zebra&quot; <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif

[BARRY]

wrong water pump and exhast manifolds.... you would think they would have got every thing right

[CamarosRus]

I am the last person that owned the REAL ORIGINAL
#27 ZL1 69 Camaro
I am the person that parted out the #27 Camaro
and built the 6543 C/SM drag car using a junk yard
Body and most of the #27 Sheetmetal Intetior and
Trim. I did this because a bad chassis shop had
Removed the steel floor while adding new rear frame
And cage making car illegal for Modified Production
back in the day
I xfered the original Vin Tag (NOT the Cowl Tag)
from zL1 body to C/SM car
After I sold C/SM car &quot;someone&quot; else sold Zl1
VIN tag and matching WA state title to John Doe
Who built Ebay clone using Real Vin Tag and
NOTHING ELSE from #27

What about this cant you understand

You are looking at the original
Vin tag

Chuck Sharin

[iluv69s]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: iluv69s</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where does Chuck come into the whole story?? The ad never mentions him?? </div></div>


It was a rhetorical question guys...

I'm familiar with the story from before and give Chuck credit for stepping forward and telling the truth about the car. My point was 'Why was Chuck conveniently left out of the story?&quot;

[69LM1]

Bid to 241K and auction ended early as item no longer available....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-Camaro-COPO-ZL-1-/331141175628?vxp=mtr


Rich

[Mr70]

12 private bidders,bid 75 separate times.
If that's real money,I would've taken it.

[Lynn]

Euphemism of the day: &quot;In the late 1970's early 80's the car was mated with another 69 Camaro body.&quot;

So.... did this mating spawn children?

I am guessing that is when the original trim tag was lost forever?

[CamarosRus]

The only thing that was mated was the #27 REAL VIN TAG with parts and pieces from all over
to construct what you see today. Not ONE piece on current #27 ZL-1 was ever from the original #27
(except the VIN TAG)

When I parted out the #27 and removed <span style="font-weight: bold">VIN TAG</span>(and built new multi colored drag Camaro) I gave body away with <span style="font-weight: bold">TRIM TAG</span>

Gave body away to Seattle area man by name of John Carmondy (sp??) who I have no
idea what became of it or Trim Tag. Who ever cloned the current #27 never knew
about &quot;Carmondy&quot; and could not have possibly used original body or TRIM TAG.

Ive heard the name SIEVERS in regards to who may have built current #27

[CamarosRus]

Interested if any ZL-1 historian has info on what &quot;original&quot;
ZL-1 engine the #27 recreation has installed.
as was alledged by cuurent EBAY seller.

Remember I parted out born with eng in Seattle and
while I cant give history thereafter, I've been
told that the FOSTER BROS wound up with eng
and was ultimately damaged beyond use.......
but I'm not confirming any of this eng story.

[Cubera2014]

They still have this car for sale currently on their website for 289k. Quite the difference from $375 originally. Things that make you go hmmmmm....
Brighton car (http://www.brightonmotorsports.com/view/inventory/automobiles/ready-to-roll?page=1)

[iluv69s]

expensive VIN tag !!

[Tracker1]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CamarosRus</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interested if any ZL-1 historian has info on what &quot;original&quot;
ZL-1 engine the #27 recreation has installed.
as was alledged by cuurent EBAY seller.

Remember I parted out born with eng in Seattle and
while I cant give history thereafter, I've been
told that the FOSTER BROS wound up with eng
and was ultimately damaged beyond use.......
but I'm not confirming any of this eng story.

</div></div>

Chuck Sharin you have a PM.

[ds1]

Car is on RacingJunk now. http://www.racingjunk.com/Chevrolet/182224030/1969-Chevrolet-Camaro.html

[427.060]

$299k sounds like a heck of a deal for a clone with a ZL_1 VIN tag. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif
James

[CamarosRus]

I can't anything new to what's been repeated several times before.

I cant remember correct last name of man who I gave damaged original
#27 body to with TRIM TAG in place.

Don't know facts as to what happened to born with #27 engine block.
Just heard that Foster Bros Machine (Seattle area) was involved ???

Heard small talk this weekend that a former owner in WA state of the C/SM race car
that I sold having the #27 VIN tag (now affixed to the ZL-1 recreation)
may be buying the car back. I don't have clue why he would want it ?????

[Charley Lillard]

Maybe he knows where the body is.

[CamarosRus]

I apologize for not being able to state my mind more clearly....

I do not know how or where to communicate with the man who I gave
#27 body to.......and thinking about it, what good would it do anyway
as the VIN tag and the born with #27 power train are all gone and
most other pieces are on the (multi colored C/SM race car...NOW Red)
the &quot;other&quot; last race car I built.......

Not my intent to keep beating this drum.......I just want the facts
to be clear on my &quot;15 minutes of fame&quot;

[Charley Lillard]

The orig. body might still have the hidden vins. If I had that body I would be contacting whoever had the body with the vin tag. Put the vin tag back on the body and you have as much as many of the ZL1's.

[Stefano]

The original body, or what may be left of it, with the hidden / stamped VINs will generally override a body with a riveted public VIN taken from the original car.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stefano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The original body, or what may be left of it, with the hidden / stamped VINs will generally override a body with a riveted public VIN taken from the original car. </div></div>

X2!!

[PeteLeathersac]

Who gets to view the evidence and decide legal title holder also if Police/FBI, in what States?
Love to hear details of any cases like this that have happened!
<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif
~ Pete

[bergy]

SAAC has had many test cases on this subject. More then a few Cobras have been ripped apart in accidents over the years. Frankly, some cases have been decided in favor of the VIN tag car and some case have been decided in favor of the chassis stamped car. Invariably, the &quot;continuous history car&quot; (CHC) prevails. This article in Shelby American magazine a few years ago gives a great rationale. Should generate some good discussion.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2014/06/full-2170-13185-saac_0001.jpg

[bergy]

A good friend of mine provided expert testimony in a Cobra case. The determinant factor was establishing continuous title trail. To put it simply - if you own a car and wreck it badly. When you make repairs to YOUR car and put it back on the road, should someone who later finds discarded portions be able to trump the ownership of YOUR car? Of course, the answer is no. Now, if you sell the repaired car - should someone who finds discarded portions be able to trump the new owner's ownership? In my friend's actual case - the answer was no. The car configuration that had continuous ownership prevailed.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

It happened on a '69 Yenko Camaro - car was stolen, VIN plate removed, involved in a robbery, impounded and returned to owner. Later, another car shows up with the VIN plate - also claiming to be the same Yenko. Years later, both cars are in PA, the fake goes up for sale, we notice, real car owner (CHC per Bergy) calls State Police, they reopen the case, rather quickly - the VIN plate from fake car is removed by police and returned to CHC. Score one for the good guys! Lawsuits began.....

[bergy]

That's a great example. Per the article in The Shelby American (above), the key is CHC and not hidden VINs. The author (who is a litigator in multi-million dollar cases like this) specifically states that the car that prevails could have undergone a &quot;change in chassis frame, tub, or unitary body shell&quot; - with the old (original) chassis discarded. We all know that there are ZL-1s existing that have had extensive repairs and even replacements of body shells - should the owners of these great cars be looking over their shoulders for a partial body to show up with their VIN stamped on it? Not if they can establish that their car is the CHC. I do agree with Charley though - the goal should be to get all of the components back together.

This is why documentation of ownership history is so important - particularly for cars that have had major body repairs. Title trails that lead back to out-of-state title services can be a big problem if ownership is ever challenged. In our registry, we include an &quot;ownership history&quot; column to document CHC to the extent possible.

Has anybody ever heard of hidden VINs trumping CHC?

[CamarosRus]

Wish I knew how to try to contact the person (cant even recall his correct name)
who I gave #27 Body to..........so this missing body subject could be put to
bed.....

I'm not willing to waste my time chasing this unknown person

[CamarosRus]

I want to restate my allegation that the current #27 ZL-1 is a recreated piece with NOT one &quot;born with part&quot; from the
original assy line with the exception of that VIN TAG.

[Charley Lillard]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CamarosRus</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wish I knew how to try to contact the person (cant even recall his correct name)
who I gave #27 Body to..........so this missing body subject could be put to
bed.....

I'm not willing to waste my time chasing this unknown person </div></div>

I'm not sure it would be a waste of time. That body will be worth alot of money to whoever owns the vin tag car. I would guess that body if it still has the hidden vins would be worth at least 100K.

[Steven J]

I used to be an investigator in an auto theft task force here in Illinois. I recall speaking with an investigator from the Illinois State Police who had inspected/investigated a green ZL-1 Camaro that had previously been owned by Reggie Jackson. He had some photos of an altered body VIN stamping, or non-matching- don't recall, on the car. I assume it's the same one referred to here. I have no idea who owned the car at the time of his investigation. It was sometime between 1998 and 2003.