motion nova advertised on craigslist

[all_about_cars]

I have no affiliation.

motion nova (http://louisville.craigslist.org/cto/4650704819.html)

[Dicky]

Discussion here: http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/559240/motion-nova#Post559240

Dicky <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/flag.gif

[x77-69z28]

Oh no, not THAT again!

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

It's 'All Motion' now!

[Salvatore]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: x77-69z28</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh no, not THAT again!</div></div>


HAAAA, very good!

[ds1]

Curved neck radiator with transmission cooler? Frame mounts look like small block and have GM tags still on them.

[mike_c]

Nothing like adding a little hand written notes from 3rd parties and then asking 3 times what you paid for it !!!

This is what is destroying the hobby, greed and profit vs. the love of the cars and there real truth and history !!!!

Anyone interested in this car send me a PM before you leap I have first hand knowledge and the real story on it !!!!

[SS427]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mike_c</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
This is what is destroying the hobby, greed and profit vs. the love of the cars and there real truth and history !!!!
</div></div>

Amen! I was just discussing that with a customer this morning regarding auction cars and how many have been ruined with a quicky &quot;restoration&quot; to put a few extra dollars in the sellers pocket. That and the many fake cars and paperwork. Very sad indeed.

[ds1]

Posting deleted now

[jasonL78]

From what I heard its going to a big collector out west.

[whitetop]

Here is all I have to say:

1. There is speculation this car was a Motion car from new..how did Joel put on on L-88 hood in '68 when those hoods did not hit the market until 1970 or so?

2. If anyone reads the late 60's/early 70's NY based mags (Rodder &amp; SuperStock, Cars etc) there were tons of Motion converted cars either featured or pics in letters to the editor. Nearly all of them <span style="font-weight: bold">DID NOT</span> have the fiberglass hoods/paint stripes/sidepipes or other well known Motion trinkets...funny how all these &quot;trinkets&quot; get added on the restoration...can't people just restore the car how it was? Well no they think they need to add the trinkets to get the price up.

[leach]

If the hoods were not available in 1968 how did the 4K mile one 1968 Camaro posted on this link that is certified have one from day one. The hood on the Nova was there forever.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/576837/2

[whitetop]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: leach</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If the hoods were not available in 1968 how did the 4K mile one 1968 Camaro posted on this link that is certified have one from day one. The hood on the Nova was there forever.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/576837/2 </div></div>

The car came from Motion with a steel hood and a Ford Thunderbolt scoop molded in. Later the owner added the fiberglass L-88 hood when it became available.

[whitetop]

I thought Joel or Marty said the first Motion car to use the L-88 hood was the 69 Z/28 Motion Green Meenie?

[leach]

In Martys book page 93
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2014/09/full-3814-16228-i968_camaro.jpg

[whitetop]

Barry
Read the last sentence &quot;after delivery he brought the car back to Joel for the additional L-88 hood&quot;. The car when first built had a steel hood with a molded in Ford tear drop scoop.

[Salvatore]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: whitetop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Here is all I have to say:

1. There is speculation this car was a Motion car from new..how did Joel put on on L-88 hood in '68 when those hoods did not hit the market until 1970 or so?

2. If anyone reads the late 60's/early 70's NY based mags (Rodder &amp; SuperStock, Cars etc) there were tons of Motion converted cars either featured or pics in letters to the editor. Nearly all of them <span style="font-weight: bold">DID NOT</span> have the fiberglass hoods/paint stripes/sidepipes or other well known Motion trinkets...funny how all these &quot;trinkets&quot; get added on the restoration...can't people just restore the car how it was? Well no they think they need to add the trinkets to get the price up.</div></div>

Perfect Dave!

[mike_c]

Just as I told the buyer when he purchased the car from me, &quot;Dan P. told me he bought the hood separate and added it to the car sometime after he purchased it around 1984, he had no knowledge of it being a real motion hood but he thought it was a similar type to the ones that they put on there car, he thought the hood looked cooler than the stock one... He also stated be bought several other parts that were Motion correct parts and used a lot of parts from his old collection to add them back to the car to make it like it would have been if it was a true motion car, he also purchased parts to build a L88 engine that was later sold when he needed money !!!! He never told me or could he remember exactly what he added back to the car other than the hood...He truly believed it was a original Motion car but years and years of research NEVER PROVED IT TO BE ONE !!!!!&quot;

The bottom line is simple, just as the buyer from me was told BEFORE he bought the car, there is NO first hand knowledge of the car being a motion car or a product of the motion shop. I had a conversation with Mr. Rosen who clearly stated he would never sign off on the car and in &quot;his opinion and documentation&quot; he had no history or knowledge of the car being at Motion product, and there was even a letter that still exists stating that. The Person that was thought to have owned it as new is dead and no one is his close circle of relatives has memory or information on the car..

There was never to my knowledge any factual proof of who even owned the car as a new vehicle!!!

I purchased the car as help to an old friend in need, sight un-seen and once I saw the car it was a bigger project than I was interested in completing,(you see Dan and I share the love of the 1968 and 1969 Nova) I was going to put the car back as the original build sheet that was included with the car shows it as, a high option 68 SS350 nova...

The car was purchased by me from Dan and then sold by me, at a cash loss, with the buyers intention of restoring it and researching the car after he was told it was at best a maybe car and probably not even a motion car. there were tons of paperwork and recorded conversations given to the buyer that neither confirmed or denied the car being affiliated with motion.

Then someone spends a couple months talking to the people who already went on record as not being 100% sure of anything at there senior years and now it has become a motion car with a couple had written notes from 3rd party people..

WOW I guess that makes it so !!!

Bottom line is Dan spent a lot of time, money and energy chasing the truth whatever it was, he never found it, he passed the car on at a reasonable price to me to restore it, he wanted to save the history, now it seems that the true history will never been found and exactly what he didn't want to happen is happening, someone is trying to profit off the car as this weeks &quot;flip of the week car&quot; !!!!

Just one more sad story to all us who really love the cars for there real history and the memories from our youthful years !!!!

BEST OF LUCK TO THE SELLER, BEWARE ANY POTENTIAL BUYER !!!

[NovaMob03]

While I'm not defending this Nova, I recall a 68 Chevelle that popped up on ebay (out of Iowa or Kansas City maybe) with no motion mod's...had newer stinger hood, 3.07 open rear, newer style 427 badges, Lakewood T bars and a 454 out of a '75 Suburban. I also recall hearing that it got certified by JR. Wonder if NCRS document would shed any light on that one and where it is now <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif

it's a buyer beware position on lot's of these ol' cars <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif

[9566 BA]

It was delivered to Wallace Chevy in Linden NJ accoring to the NCRS

[NovaMob03]

yes, the Nova was sold at Wallace....I was wondering about which dealer sold the Chevelle

[iluv69s]

anyone got a copy of CL ad?

[leach]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2014/09/full-3814-16342-1968_nova_data_report.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2014/09/full-3814-16343-1968_nova_broadcast_sheet.jpg

[mike_c]

After a long silence from Dan, he reached out to me today and ask me to post his current telephone number for anyone that wants the real facts on the car since now it is NOT being presented in its real form !!!( I wont post it, but anyone wanting it send me a PM)

It's really pretty sad how its all playing out, and from what Dan stated today him and the person selling the car really got into it about the car and how it is being presented for sale right now.

[NovaMob03]

this ol' Nova sure has had a lot of drama attached to it over the years. I remember when Dan found it and tried to get it blessed by JR. Here's what I recall...might not be 100% accurate as it's been a really long time and unfortunately, I'm not sure it will clear anything up either.

When Dan bought the car and did his usual (extensive) due diligence, including contacting ex motion &amp; Batt auto body employees. He said he eventually made a call &amp; spoke with Mrs Rosen, told him why he was calling and (he told me) she seemed to know the Nova he was calling about and passed the phone to JR. After a conversation, he sent JR's fee (1500 I think)to certify it.
Then, out of the blue, Dan said he got a phone call from Kevin S about it and an NICB was run by a friend of a friend. Dan told me that Kevin specifically asked if it was a 'green Nova painted black' and so Dan deduced the JR had called Kevin about it.

JR took the cert fee, but Dan never got his letter. At this point, he called me for advice &amp; I suggested he push him for a yes or no letter or to return his money ...Dan did that &amp; that's apparently when the sh*t hit the fan. Dan was convinced that JR was stalling on the cert in order for Kevin to buy it on the cheap. After some verbal exchange, Dan got a 'maybe letter' from JR but enough bad juju had been conveyed so that it would never be certified as the '1st Motion Nova'.

Unconnected to this, but perhaps significant, there have been 2 other sYc member's who have also had similar experiences getting their car's 'motion certified' where calls were made, money paid and then those individuals were called by prospective buyers about their cars (Rich Pern and I think the other was JD502 <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif)
The burning question that needs an answer is if actual paper documentation/invoices exist or if cert's are based on memory and/or photograph's etc. As said before, it's a buyer beware hobby <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/burnout.gif

[Tracker1]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NovaMob03</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JR took the cert fee, but Dan never got his letter. At this point, he called me for advice &amp; I suggested he push him for a yes or no letter or to return his money ...Dan did that &amp; that's apparently when the sh*t hit the fan. Dan was convinced that JR was stalling on the cert in order for Kevin to buy it on the cheap. After some verbal exchange, Dan got a 'maybe letter' from JR but enough bad juju had been conveyed so that it would never be certified as the '1st Motion Nova'.

Unconnected to this, but perhaps significant, there have been 2 other sYc member's who have also had similar experiences getting their car's 'motion certified' where calls were made, money paid and then those individuals were called by prospective buyers about their cars (Rich Pern and I think the other was JD502 <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif)</div></div>

I think my respect for &quot;Mr. Motion&quot; just took a hit.... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/frown.gif

[NovaMob03]

also, pretty sure that when the 'maybe letter' was sent to Dan, his certification money was refunded. That, in itself, was interesting and a nice gesture on JR's part (I recall him having a no refund policy) as it took his time to do the research...a two party agreement that was understood and acceptable IMO

[whitetop]

There was a dark colored/black 68-72 Nova in Hot Cars/Rodder and Super Stock?? magazine around 1973 or so. Not sure of color because it was a black and white feature-remember seeing it 10-12 years ago. Motion conversion car. Motion put in the Lt-1 350 engine, tranny and rear gears, suspension and set up the ignition. Car retained stock SS hood, stock paint. Car ran Cragar SS, M/t valve covers and NO flyeye air cleaner-Ran stock chrome GM I believe. I recall the only Motion insignia were the Motion badge on each M/T valve cover.

This was your typical Motion conversion car. Take off the 2 badges and these cars blended in as typical street machine of the day..probably why so few are around...no one knows what they have.

Joel did a ton of these cars and how he can say for certaintity based upon a unfinished/half complete car is beyond me unless he has paperwork/prior owners name he specifically remembers or if there is something on the car which was really unique-that stayed on the car.

[supercomp 8.90]

there should be vins on his paperwork I would think.

[NovaMob03]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: supercomp 8.90</div><div class="ubbcode-body">there should be vins on his paperwork I would think. </div></div>

that's one of the point's of my initial post...Does JR have any invoices with vin #'s to verify his cars? Personally, I don't believe a stash of Motion invoices exist. If they did, one would think it'd be attached to a certification letter as real proof. Anyone seen that?
Wonder if any car's built with 'catalog' parts have been certified as the real deal? <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif

[JoeC]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NovaMob03</div><div class="ubbcode-body">While I'm not defending this Nova, I recall a 68 Chevelle that popped up on ebay (out of Iowa or Kansas City maybe) with no motion mod's...had newer stinger hood, 3.07 open rear, newer style 427 badges, Lakewood T bars and a 454 out of a '75 Suburban. I also recall hearing that it got certified by JR. Wonder if NCRS document would shed any light on that one and where it is now <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif

</div></div>


I believe that was a green 1969 Chevelle on ebay

[69LM1]

To be clear, my issue with JR was that after being paid, and a &quot;maybe&quot; given verbally, there was a refusal to put said &quot;maybe&quot; in a report. Even a written &quot;no&quot; would have been ok.

Personally, I believe that if you are charging thousands of dollars for an opinion, it should be on paper. What motive would there be to refuse to put anything on paper? Some cars get a no, some a yes. Fine, if it's a maybe, but put that in writing as well. That was (and is) my issue with Mr. Rosen. Not that my old car was or was not a BM, or even a motion modded car. Stand behind your word, especially if you are charging for that word.

That and shortly thereafter I got a call from someone very involved in the hobby wanting to buy the car (as a non motion car) &quot;for his grandson&quot;. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/frown.gif

With no known written records, phone calls from left field when cars are not advertised for sale, and the Chevelle incident it is no wonder people are leery.


Rich

[luzl78]

If dan's old nova comes to be certified in a year or two there will be an uproar throughout the hobby. That would be too obvious.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NovaMob03</div><div class="ubbcode-body">this ol' Nova sure has had a lot of drama attached to it over the years. I remember when Dan found it and tried to get it blessed by JR. Here's what I recall...might not be 100% accurate as it's been a really long time and unfortunately, I'm not sure it will clear anything up either.

When Dan bought the car and did his usual (extensive) due diligence, including contacting ex motion &amp; Batt auto body employees. He said he eventually made a call &amp; spoke with Mrs Rosen, told him why he was calling and (he told me) she seemed to know the Nova he was calling about and passed the phone to JR. After a conversation, he sent JR's fee (1500 I think)to certify it.
Then, out of the blue, Dan said he got a phone call from Kevin S about it and an NICB was run by a friend of a friend. Dan told me that Kevin specifically asked if it was a 'green Nova painted black' and so Dan deduced the JR had called Kevin about it.

JR took the cert fee, but Dan never got his letter. At this point, he called me for advice &amp; I suggested he push him for a yes or no letter or to return his money ...Dan did that &amp; that's apparently when the sh*t hit the fan. Dan was convinced that JR was stalling on the cert in order for Kevin to buy it on the cheap. After some verbal exchange, Dan got a 'maybe letter' from JR but enough bad juju had been conveyed so that it would never be certified as the '1st Motion Nova'.

Unconnected to this, but perhaps significant, there have been 2 other sYc member's who have also had similar experiences getting their car's 'motion certified' where calls were made, money paid and then those individuals were called by prospective buyers about their cars (Rich Pern and I think the other was JD502 <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif)
The burning question that needs an answer is if actual paper documentation/invoices exist or if cert's are based on memory and/or photograph's etc. As said before, it's a buyer beware hobby <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/burnout.gif </div></div>



Ok There was a similar situation with a motion car that is in my family. ( But it is not my personal car). And yes I do know of one other person besides Rich P. this happened to. Just look a a few of the past cars that have been certified. (only a few but) when those cars were put in the right hands documentation was &quot;found or the car was remembered.&quot; I no a little about this nova, But I do know of two very very serious collectors that have been interested it this questionable car for years. I would think (JMO) in either of those hands this car is a documented motion Nova. Good luck!

[Ironarms]

Someone is still trying to find info out for this car...

http://newjersey.craigslist.org/wan/4855025838.html

[all_about_cars]

its back.
Motion Nova (http://louisville.craigslist.org/cto/5257881582.html)

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/10/full-12287-33623-68_motion_nova.jpg

[RichSchmidt]

I had some paperwork from a Motion car that I almost bought. It had no identifying info on it. I believe the paperwork only said &quot;blue Camaro&quot; on it. It had the owner's name and info,but not much else.

[motionwannabe]

Isn't that Dan Palchanes old Nova???

[luzl78]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: motionwannabe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Isn't that Dan Palchanes old Nova??? </div></div>yes it is