Legal advice. Possible fraud.

[427TJ]

Sold a car awhile back. Car left on a truck and went into storage until buyer could arrange for final delivery. Storage was with the buyer's friend. Car sat for many months and then was moved to another site for storage with a second person. This second person allegedly wound up selling the car to someone else without permission of the original buyer.

So:

1. Buyer never followed through on moving the car into his physical possession.
2. Storage fees added up, unpaid thus far.
3. Second person to store car allegedly sold the car without notifying person I sold it to.
4. My buyer never came to get the title, which I still have with the original bill of sale. Copies furnished to buyer at time of sale and again this week.
5. My buyer is now trying to locate car and take possession. He called police where car was last stored and basically got nowhere. I advised buyer to seek legal counsel and proceed that way, maybe a private detective who specializes in collector car situations.

Any advice?

I have no skin in the game as I was paid in full at time of sale. I would like to see this resolved but I am not particularly confident of that happening.

[WILMASBOYL78]

If the local cops won't help...I would call the state police and if they balk call the state attorney general's office.

wilma

[firstgenaddict]

I sure hope the person who disposed of the vehicle went through the proper legal channels in order to obtain title. If not I would venture to guess they liable to a civil if not criminal suit.

[SS427]

In most states that I am aware of you need to give written notice to someone before you can sell their car to give them a chance to pay. I don't know and doubt if it falls under the "Mechanics Lein" but if it does it is VERY difficult to sell someones car and if you don't follow the rules you are in big trouble.

[427TJ]

There may have been a lien applied by the original or second person who stored the car in order to collect storage fees. The buyer's rep, who called me and told me the situation, hinted that there may have been a lien but wasn't clear about it.

[Lynn]

In Oklahoma, that would be a mechanic's lien, or what is sometimes referred to as a possessory lien. Same lien laws apply for repair or storage.

Lien holder does have a right to sell the property, but must, among other thiings:

1. Run the vin by the police dept where they will check to make sure the car has never been reported stolen,

2. Send certified mail to the owner of record, as well as any other "interested party", such as a prior lien holder. The person conducting the sale has an affirmative duty to request the name and address of the current record owner from the tax commission.

Don't know if your state has the same stringent requirements.

Bill, is the car still registered in your name?

Where do you live (what state?).

[bbbentley]

Since title is still in your possession and not transferred, you may be on the hook for any fees or legal stuff,IMO.

[budnate]

why do you have the title? any reason you did'nt overnight it to the buyer when he paid in full? that's the way I was showed how to do these long distance deals.

you having the title may be a snag unless you have a notarized bill of sale from back when ever you did the deal or emails showing you both acknowledging it paid in full on that day and its his car and responsibility from that day forward.

bummer deal brother.

[427TJ]

I submitted a record of sale with the state DMV when I sold the car and provided the price and name/addy of buyer. Buyer likes to lay low and wanted to come get title in person and maybe buy some more stuff from me. Truthfully, I forgot (!) I had the title. The buyer stopped calling me in March 2013 and did not return my calls (no voice mail box on buyer's phone) so I assumed that was that. Forgot all about the deal until buyer's rep called a few days ago. He said I had the title and lo and behold, there it was in my car paper folder in the safe. I said I'd mail it to him right away and he balked.

By the way, if you get the idea that the buyer and his rep are a tad flaky I understand.

Having read the responses thus far I'll put the title in registered mail/receipt required and be done with it. Sound okay?

[SuperNovaSS]

I can't imagine you would be liable for any fees if the car had a lien sale done. That should take care of the balance. As far as the title goes, I personally would keep it/toss it. Sending it now will be like setting the hook if any issues arise since you are admitting you have it. You have not done anything wrong at this point other than trusting someone to pick up the car when they said they would. I'm sure NJSteve will step in soon and school me.


Jason

[92646]

If I understand this right you are the last legal owner of the car or would it be considered in limbo? The reason I ask is if the lien sale was done properly then I think you should have been notified?

[427TJ]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 92646</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I understand this right you are the last legal owner of the car or would it be considered in limbo? The reason I ask is if the lien sale was done properly then I think you should have been notified? </div></div>

I submitted a report of sale with the DMV when the car was paid for two years ago. I suppose my having the title in-hand could mean something* but if a DMV clerk ran the VIN they'd see my report of sale and establish that my buyer had taken possession (de facto) of the car at time of sale (and has therefore been responsible for the car since that date).

I would also assume that if the latest buyer should try to register the car with the DMV (here in WA where I sold it) they would see the report of sale and seek more information. If there was a lien and subsequent sale then the latest buyer would have to provide that paperwork, have it pass muster, and perhaps be able to take legal ownership.

*My still having the title means, to me, that my buyer simply failed to follow-through and take possession of the title (and the car). Yes, I should have sent it right away but my buyer was adamant about coming to get it and then, after communication tapered off, I forgot I even had the title. Follow through is the key and is my lesson learned here.

I'll PM NJSteve and have him chime in if he sees fit.

[njsteve]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427TJ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
*My still having the title means, to me, that my buyer simply failed to follow-through and take possession of the title (and the car). Yes, I should have sent it right away but my buyer was adamant about coming to get it and then, after communication tapered off, I forgot I even had the title. Follow through is the key and is my lesson learned here.
</div></div>

I would concur with that. He requested you to physically hold the title until he picked it up (within a reasonable amount of time). If the title was signed over to him at the time of sale, where the piece of paper is sitting doesn't affect the transfer of ownership.

The guy calling you could be anybody. If he truly is the nephew you should tell him to get a power of attorney signed, and a certified copy sent to you. That document in effect says that he has the legal guardianship of the ill buyer's personal and business matters. Then you can send it to him via registered/certified mail or Fedex with a signature required. I would not do anything in person. You don't know what &quot;issues&quot; this person may have.

[427TJ]

Thanks Steve. I remember dealing with the buyer's nephew when I sold the car and he calls me from the buyer's phone (caller ID matches). Next time he calls I'll pass along what he needs to do. Thanks everybody for the advice.