Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss

[Resurrected69ss]

I'm building a period correct 69 pro ock Camaro and heard from cragar that they changed the spoke design in the 90's to a more flat spoke and are now all uni-lug. My question is when you compare the 2 are they significantly different? Its hard to tell in pics, I know once the lug nuts are on the uni lug part disappears but I'm concerned about the spokes. I'm guessing if I painted the lug but area silver like the originals it might look better? Any info and opinions would be great. Thanks! BTW I'm going to be running a 15x4 and 15x8 or 10 deep in the back.

[PxTx]

The newer flat spoke wheels came out later than you think. If I were to guess, I would say 2006-2008 or so.

Here are the newer wheels. Can you spot the differences? These are 2014 offering as you can see.
http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww101/Plowman7/Day%202%20Stuff/_3-8_zpsp6dxd8vj.jpeg (http://s710.photobucket.com/user/Plowman7/media/Day%202%20Stuff/_3-8_zpsp6dxd8vj.jpeg.html)

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww101/Plowman7/Day%202%20Stuff/_3-7_zpsndcplrsu.jpeg (http://s710.photobucket.com/user/Plowman7/media/Day%202%20Stuff/_3-7_zpsndcplrsu.jpeg.html)

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww101/Plowman7/Day%202%20Stuff/_3-9_zps42mzscc3.jpeg (http://s710.photobucket.com/user/Plowman7/media/Day%202%20Stuff/_3-9_zps42mzscc3.jpeg.html)

Here are some traditional spokes from 1997

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww101/Plowman7/Day%202%20Stuff/1997_zpsdcfbadc5.jpg (http://s710.photobucket.com/user/Plowman7/media/Day%202%20Stuff/1997_zpsdcfbadc5.jpg.html)

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww101/Plowman7/Day%202%20Stuff/_3-5_zpsucnrwknt.jpeg (http://s710.photobucket.com/user/Plowman7/media/Day%202%20Stuff/_3-5_zpsucnrwknt.jpeg.html)

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww101/Plowman7/Day%202%20Stuff/_3-4_zpsa5wvpbxn.jpeg (http://s710.photobucket.com/user/Plowman7/media/Day%202%20Stuff/_3-4_zpsa5wvpbxn.jpeg.html)

Here is a set form 1994

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww101/Plowman7/Day%202%20Stuff/_12_zpslt3krp5y.jpeg (http://s710.photobucket.com/user/Plowman7/media/Day%202%20Stuff/_12_zpslt3krp5y.jpeg.html)

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww101/Plowman7/Day%202%20Stuff/_3-6_zpsxo6vou7z.jpeg (http://s710.photobucket.com/user/Plowman7/media/Day%202%20Stuff/_3-6_zpsxo6vou7z.jpeg.html)

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww101/Plowman7/Day%202%20Stuff/_12-1_zpsilqdte3j.jpeg (http://s710.photobucket.com/user/Plowman7/media/Day%202%20Stuff/_12-1_zpsilqdte3j.jpeg.html)

The chrome isn't great on the old ones. What I would like to do is collect old centers when I can get them cheap. You can re-hoop them and re-chrome them. Maybe change the offset too. I'm not thrilled with this particular look, due to the large flat area- though I've seen original Cragars with it too. Just found these on ebay tonight but they show the whole re-hoop and custom offset thing. I still would rather rock these than the newer flat spokes- but I can't really explain why. Sometimes ego trumps logic.

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww101/Plowman7/Day%202%20Stuff/widened4_zps91c4e592.jpg (http://s710.photobucket.com/user/Plowman7/media/Day%202%20Stuff/widened4_zps91c4e592.jpg.html)

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww101/Plowman7/Day%202%20Stuff/widened1_zps3522a7c3.jpg (http://s710.photobucket.com/user/Plowman7/media/Day%202%20Stuff/widened1_zps3522a7c3.jpg.html)

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww101/Plowman7/Day%202%20Stuff/widened2_zps2dbc3f1c.jpg (http://s710.photobucket.com/user/Plowman7/media/Day%202%20Stuff/widened2_zps2dbc3f1c.jpg.html)

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww101/Plowman7/Day%202%20Stuff/widened3_zps9d271266.jpg (http://s710.photobucket.com/user/Plowman7/media/Day%202%20Stuff/widened3_zps9d271266.jpg.html)

[Resurrected69ss]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pxtx</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The newer flat spoke wheels came out later than you think. If I were to guess, I would say 2006-2008 or so.

Here are the newer wheels. Can you spot the differences? These are 2014 offering as you can see.
http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww101/Plowman7/Day%202%20Stuff/_3-8_zpsp6dxd8vj.jpeg (http://s710.photobucket.com/user/Plowman7/media/Day%202%20Stuff/_3-8_zpsp6dxd8vj.jpeg.html)

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww101/Plowman7/Day%202%20Stuff/_3-7_zpsndcplrsu.jpeg (http://s710.photobucket.com/user/Plowman7/media/Day%202%20Stuff/_3-7_zpsndcplrsu.jpeg.html)

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww101/Plowman7/Day%202%20Stuff/_3-9_zps42mzscc3.jpeg (http://s710.photobucket.com/user/Plowman7/media/Day%202%20Stuff/_3-9_zps42mzscc3.jpeg.html)

Here are some traditional spokes from 1997

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww101/Plowman7/Day%202%20Stuff/1997_zpsdcfbadc5.jpg (http://s710.photobucket.com/user/Plowman7/media/Day%202%20Stuff/1997_zpsdcfbadc5.jpg.html)

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww101/Plowman7/Day%202%20Stuff/_3-5_zpsucnrwknt.jpeg (http://s710.photobucket.com/user/Plowman7/media/Day%202%20Stuff/_3-5_zpsucnrwknt.jpeg.html)

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww101/Plowman7/Day%202%20Stuff/_3-4_zpsa5wvpbxn.jpeg (http://s710.photobucket.com/user/Plowman7/media/Day%202%20Stuff/_3-4_zpsa5wvpbxn.jpeg.html)

Here is a set form 1994

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww101/Plowman7/Day%202%20Stuff/_12_zpslt3krp5y.jpeg (http://s710.photobucket.com/user/Plowman7/media/Day%202%20Stuff/_12_zpslt3krp5y.jpeg.html)

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww101/Plowman7/Day%202%20Stuff/_3-6_zpsxo6vou7z.jpeg (http://s710.photobucket.com/user/Plowman7/media/Day%202%20Stuff/_3-6_zpsxo6vou7z.jpeg.html)

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww101/Plowman7/Day%202%20Stuff/_12-1_zpsilqdte3j.jpeg (http://s710.photobucket.com/user/Plowman7/media/Day%202%20Stuff/_12-1_zpsilqdte3j.jpeg.html)

The chrome isn't great on the old ones. What I would like to do is collect old centers when I can get them cheap. You can re-hoop them and re-chrome them. Maybe change the offset too. I'm not thrilled with this particular look, due to the large flat area- though I've seen original Cragars with it too. Just found these on ebay tonight but they show the whole re-hoop and custom offset thing. I still would rather rock these than the newer flat spokes- but I can't really explain why. Sometimes ego trumps logic.

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww101/Plowman7/Day%202%20Stuff/widened4_zps91c4e592.jpg (http://s710.photobucket.com/user/Plowman7/media/Day%202%20Stuff/widened4_zps91c4e592.jpg.html)

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww101/Plowman7/Day%202%20Stuff/widened1_zps3522a7c3.jpg (http://s710.photobucket.com/user/Plowman7/media/Day%202%20Stuff/widened1_zps3522a7c3.jpg.html)

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww101/Plowman7/Day%202%20Stuff/widened2_zps2dbc3f1c.jpg (http://s710.photobucket.com/user/Plowman7/media/Day%202%20Stuff/widened2_zps2dbc3f1c.jpg.html)

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww101/Plowman7/Day%202%20Stuff/widened3_zps9d271266.jpg (http://s710.photobucket.com/user/Plowman7/media/Day%202%20Stuff/widened3_zps9d271266.jpg.html)

</div></div>

Pxtx thanks so much for the comparison! I agree 100% with the ego statement lol! I love the rounded spoke really has that classic look. I've seen a few sets that need to be re chromed but some guys want stupid money for them. I may just hold out until I can fond some real clean originals! Thanks again.

[Salvatore]

Unilugs were out pretty early. The round spoke is the key for me. Great pictures from PXTX on the subject.
Also the &quot;new&quot; 15X4 Cragars are now 15X4.5

[camarojoe]

Unilugs bother me as much as flat spokes.

[Resurrected69ss]

I agree 100% guys! I'm gonna keep looking for the old style cragars they always pop up here and there.

[whitetop]

I have a bunch of early NOS..here is 14x6 NOS..Camera sorta distorted the size of the wheels. Al early Cragars until at least the late 70's or early 80's had the lug nut pocket sprayed with aluminum colored paint from the factory..not sure when Crgar stopped but I have some early 80's and they were still painted..

I can't stand the new flat spoke Cragars..looks like the cheap no name brands of the 70's or model car kit mags.

[whitetop]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: camarojoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Unilugs bother me as much as flat spokes. </div></div>

The Cragars on my car are unilug and have been on it since 1975..never a problem.

[camarojoe]

I'm sure they're not a problem... But in my opinion if you're going for a true &quot;day 2&quot; look on a 60's Chevy they gotta have round lug holes.

[Day2_69Z]

I'm finishing up a very accurate period correct (1970-74 era). Day 2
69 Z/28 with SS Cragars, 8 1/2 X15 rear &amp; Aluminum slots 15X7 fronts.
In finding originals that size I found nothing but Junk or flaking,peeling Uni-lugs that were unacceptable to use
(anybody having mint or NOS Wheels either wanted stupid $$$ or weren't for sale) or had 'bad rechroming'

I Chose the New SS Direct fit single bolt circle with the Best Chrome these wheels have had in 35+ years.
Yes, these are flat spokes mounted on Original Good Year L60's &amp; F60's.
I used Original centers with the bold script &amp; blue paint .
They Look fine on the car, fit the wheelhouse without air shocks or shackles (barely) These Are safe with no Fatigue or hidden cracked welds or damaged spokes as I will Run the car on the Dragstrip @ well over 100 mph along with hard Street use.
Taking in account Quality,Looks,New Chrome, Size and backspacing and Of Course SAFETY, this was a No Brainer in Choosing the &quot;Newest Cragar SS vs
questionable original uni-lugs that are actually Incorrect for my Build.

If Cragar Industries Remakes the &quot;Round spoke in Direct fit&quot;,,, I'd buy them in a heartbeat.....just saying.
Thanks, this is a great thread !

[whitetop]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Day2_69Z</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
questionable original uni-lugs that are actually Incorrect for my Build.

</div></div>
Cragars bought the unilugs out in 1971-1972.
Srs how many people are gonna look at the lug nut area..I would notice the flat spokes way before the lug nut pocket.

[Day2_69Z]

yep, but I also have Brand New non Blemished wheels to Go Fast with and have piece of mind.
Plus, I hate the silver paint in the lug area....terrible then...terrible now !.
The new wheels are quite nice...not perfect like a &quot;Paul's Chrome&quot; for $1200 -$1500 ...2 wheels. + the cost of wheels

[Salvatore]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: whitetop</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Day2_69Z</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
questionable original uni-lugs that are actually Incorrect for my Build.

</div></div>
Cragars bought the unilugs out in 1971-1972.
Srs how many people are gonna look at the lug nut area..I would notice the flat spokes way before the lug nut pocket.</div></div>

I agree. I don't remember when I had a non unilug Cragar on my 69 SS nova that I bought new. I guess I ran rally's till I could afford the Cragars and that must have been 1972 or so. I like the painted aluminum centers too. Like the contrast.

[Day2_69Z]

Hey guys,,, just because I'm a bit younger than MOST of Yinz....

I never owned anything but unilug aluminum painted lug area Cragars till these I bought last year at Summit, where they allowed me to hand pick the wheels I wanted.
Fully Chromed looks better to me than a cover up for Cheap Plating techniques of the 70's....they painted where they didn't chrome ! and the area rusted quickly unless babied.

The direct fit is a way better attachment point using conical wheel nuts that won't loosen unlike the unilugs. The unilugs need periodic or weekly tightening as the heat from the brakes expand 3 different metals to loosen.
Aluminum wheels, steel washers and steel nuts.....just saying.....

[camarojoe]

Not to mention a uni-lug is a 70s thing. Fine for a 70s theme, but not right for a 60's day 2 car.

[Day2_69Z]

Damn,,
its a good thing my car is only wearing Cragars on the rear as then I would have 4 wheels to thread about than two....lol....
Cars with Slots may be a different thread but nobody has the &quot;New American or US MAGS&quot; Aluminum Slots to rave about !
Man those wheels are the biggest P.O.S. I have ever seen from any wheel company. Yes, that JUNK comes from China !
I hope no one here has them on their car .

Joe,
my car is a 69 with the most accurate early 70's theme of parts I could muster. The only &quot;new items&quot; are the pair of Cragars.

[Resurrected69ss]

I'll tell ya the more I'm trying to convince myself on the new ones I just can't come to grips with them! Wish I could find a nice set of 15x4's for a good deal!

[Resurrected69ss]

Thanks guys for all the input as well!

[Day2_69Z]

a nice set of 15 x 4's. for a good deal is a double intondra.....
ain't. happening....
Brent had a pair, Rechromed at Paul's
that went for Over a Grand ...
most flawed, tarnished or lightly pitted ones go for 5 bills give or take....

we can always hope.

[Salvatore]

a pair just went on Ebay direct bolt for $580.00 with tires.
I just bought round spoke versions (unilug) that are real nice for under $400.00 shipped a few weeks ago.
Gotta keep your eye out.

60's cars could still get unilug wheels because not everybody bought the wheels in 1969 for a 69 car immediately.
Pumping gas or paper root money did not pay that much so you had to save up for that kinda stuff. had to pay insurance before you could buy Speed Shop accessories.
Also, I have been running unilug and direct bolt wheels for over 40 years and mine never came off or even worked loose on the street or drag strip.

[camarojoe]

Sure you could have bought uni-lug Cragars for your new 69 several YEARS later, but that's certainly not a &quot;day 2&quot; wheel by definition. Day 2 Cragars should be versions made at (or very near) the time the car itself was made.

[novadude]

Geez... tough crowd. 98% of people that look at these new wheels will never know the difference between the original wheels and the modern wheels. The new wheels still capture the basic &quot;look&quot;. While I agree that the originals look better, there is something to be said about having a brand new wheel with no rust or hidden damage if you are actually driving or racing the car.

[Salvatore]

When we judge Day-2 at MCACN they tell us to try to stay with a 1 year or so time frame on the Day-2 parts. Without dismounting the tire from the wheel and looking at the date its tough to see if that unilug/straight lug wheel is within the one year or so time frame. The flat spokes are a dead give-a-way. I personally tend to go a little further in the process because those Day-2 parts took a couple years at times to reach the cars back then. Some Speed Shop parts that were originally on my nova did not come out to the early 70's or so. Torquer intake manifolds , Cragar Super Tricks, tall valve covers etc. I even believe header mufflers were a product of the early 70's. Its a tough call on the time frame of these old parts.

[67 Nova Boy]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: camarojoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sure you could have bought uni-lug Cragars for your new 69 several YEARS later, but that's certainly not a &quot;day 2&quot; wheel by definition. Day 2 Cragars should be versions made at (or very near) the time the car itself was made. </div></div>

Most of the guys that bought these cars back in the 60's/70's were not making the money to buy these DAY 2 parts the same year that they came out. Cape cod one car garage house that had a guy leaning on the trunk...shirt off working 65 hours a week to own these cars. I for one was there and had these cars and it took me months or even a year or two to get the speed parts that I wanted for the car. Side pipes/Cragars/Hooker headers/Edlebrock Manifolds/Hurst shifters/Lakewood traction bars and so on...Sam is right on what and how to judge what happened back then and what is ample time for these parts to get on these hi-po cars. Sam was there...lived it... bought it...raced it. House/kids and marriage was the downing moment for these guys that made them sell their cars. Oh...and the price of gas and the insurance didn't help much.

Why do you think that soo many different magazines were printed about these cars and all the speed parts that were being manufactured during that time period. Do people really think that the average guy could buy a Motion or Nickey or Yenko back in the day...NO way!! No body cared about paperwork for these cars...only paperwork they kept was the Hurst stickers or instructions from the speed part box. Remember guys...these cars were our daily drivers in all kinds of weather. Snow as well! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

Dave
67 Nova Boy

My daily driver that I raced/drove to school. 69 Chevelle SS 396 L78 4-speed {original Monoco Orange with Liquid tire chain}

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2014/11/full-8651-18728-img_1815.jpg

[camarojoe]

Bottom line is uni-lugs look better than modern Cragars, but definitely weren't made or sold in 69/70 or even 71. If you bought any style of Cragars in those years they had round holes and were a direct fit.

[67 Nova Boy]

Joe...agree 100%

Straight lugs are the best but real hard to find now a days.

Dave
67 Nova Boy

[Salvatore]

Very good points Dave.

So that is the &quot;bottom line&quot; folks.

[Day2_69Z]

Sam,Dave &amp; Joe,
You are all both right and subjective.
to the Real World of Day 2.
My car was sold in November of 69 when the year was over.
1970 was the start of Day 2 for this build. The items Did Not get installed all at once but as a &quot;progression&quot; of Performance and appearance.
Trying to be accurate, detailed and correct for the period I set a time frame from 1970-74 for acceptable speed parts.
I acquired dated catalogs, Era magazines and NOS or Boxed items with dated packages,directions,even dated parts.
Some were made and marketed for years prior and post my time frame. Some with a small window.
Judgeing a Day two car is subjective at best. Opinions, knowledge and facts needed would be immense considering the volume of parts, manufactures and application.

Cragars manufactured in various time periods are as different as NOS parts made decades apart. Reproduction parts made years or decades apart are vastly different from Original, NOS ,NORS, reissued parts.
Are you judging wheels differently than Reproduction, Nos or reissue parts ?
Or being subjective and reasonable as a group of men can be on a 40 - 45 year old car &amp; parts ?

Tom

[Salvatore]

Tom, I like your time frame from 70 to 74ish on a 68-69 cars.
That is how I see it but others do not.
I take more into consideration (time factor) because I am older than some of these guys
and have lived this Speed Shop transformation personally.

[Day2_69Z]

Yes,
I know that oh so well.
I'm 55. that being said, I was 10 in 69 &amp; 11 in 70.....with a Dad and older brother, uncles, friends and locals living that era. I hung around,helped work on and even rode in &quot;these real world Day 2 Cars&quot;. As I got older I was able to drive and &quot;tune them&quot;.
What the reality brings us is a lot of these parts saw limited use and were sold or traded off for newer, better or totally different upgrades or changes.
It was commonplace for top local strip &amp; street guys to buy / trade Used Parts that were &quot;like new&quot; therefore the use of 5-10 yr old pieces vs run out and buy unproven new stuff was prevalent.
Where I'm going is that today , if you find a 69 Car with 5-10 year old prior speed parts on it , most of today's Day 2 guys will scoff because &quot;they didn't know&quot; , they didn't &quot;live it&quot;.
Same for a 69 Car with mostly '77-'79 parts added. They think its right.
On the flip side are cars from '69 that weren't modified until the late 70's -early 80's....
Are these Day 2 cars or period cars ?

I've had and preserved both kinds.

[Day2_69Z]

Sam,
When a guy sells off his #480 distributor &amp; #837 alternator for real speed parts of the era..... my hats off to him for that guy is a true hot rodder, Day 2 living historian !!!!

been there, done it and continue to do it

Tom

[Salvatore]

Keep up the good work Tom.

[Day2_69Z]

Thanks !!!
My aim on this build from the get go was for &quot;guys of your era&quot; to be the &quot;instruction sheet&quot; and gain their approval of my endeavors as the end result will be obvious.

This kind of Restoration is tougher than a stock OEM build where a catalog is your guide &amp; reproduction cars are in abundance


Tom

[Resurrected69ss]

Well good news guys! Strangely enough I just found a set last night of original 15x4 direct fit cragars with moroso drag special tires 5.50-15 both are in real nice shape. Wheels might need to be re-chromed but might be salvage the lug but pockets!

[Salvatore]

GOOD DEAL!

[camarojoe]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Resurrected69ss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well good news guys! Strangely enough I just found a set last night of original 15x4 direct fit cragars with moroso drag special tires 5.50-15 both are in real nice shape. Wheels might need to be re-chromed but might be salvage the lug but pockets! </div></div>

Nice! Those wheels are the correct era/style for a '69.

[MosportGreen66]

Anyone have a set of 15x7 original style Cragars for a '69 Z? I think my car is in need of a change...

Thanks,
Dan

[Day2_69Z]

use 8's. and. 6's

can't beat the depth contrast

need 4 1/4. - 4 1/2 - 4 3/4 inch Back space for bigger tires ....

I'll set you up......
on your carte Blanche card.....
h.m.mmm

[Resurrected69ss]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: camarojoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Resurrected69ss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well good news guys! Strangely enough I just found a set last night of original 15x4 direct fit cragars with moroso drag special tires 5.50-15 both are in real nice shape. Wheels might need to be re-chromed but might be salvage the lug but pockets! </div></div>

Nice! Those wheels are the correct era/style for a '69. </div></div>

Yeah man! And they have the tires I wanted! Though I'm not sure if the 5.50-15 might a tad to short. They still look great!

[68ys8030]

I looked for like 6 months for a set of 15x4 cragars for my 69. One night I was on my local craigslist and typed in &quot;cragar&quot;. There they were.. 15x4 cragars 5x4.750 still in the boxes!
got em for 200 bucks in dusty old boxes. The funny think is they were lised on there for quite a while and nobody bought them. LUCK ! I have newer 15x10s on the rear. unilug. I think the newer 15x10s have a step in the hoop that the older ones don't so I'm still looking for a set of old 15x10s. Love the cragars! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2014/11/full-205-18760-zeegaragerear.jpg

[Resurrected69ss]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 68ys8030</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I looked for like 6 months for a set of 15x4 cragars for my 69. One night I was on my local craigslist and typed in &quot;cragar&quot;. There they were.. 15x4 cragars 5x4.750 still in the boxes!
got em for 200 bucks in dusty old boxes. The funny think is they were lised on there for quite a while and nobody bought them. LUCK ! I have newer 15x10s on the rear. unilug. I think the newer 15x10s have a step in the hoop that the older ones don't so I'm still looking for a set of old 15x10s. Love the cragars! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2014/11/full-205-18760-zeegaragerear.jpg
</div></div>

Your car is badass dude! I was reading one of the magazines with your car in it, love it man!

[TheNovaMan]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Day2_69Z</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yep, but I also have Brand New non Blemished wheels to Go Fast with and have piece of mind.
Plus, I hate the silver paint in the lug area....terrible then...terrible now !.
The new wheels are quite nice...not perfect like a &quot;Paul's Chrome&quot; for $1200 -$1500 ...2 wheels. + the cost of wheels </div></div> Who's Paul?

[Salvatore]

Pauls Chrome. he should be on the internet.

[Day2_69Z]

Paul's Chrome in Mars, Pa.
One of the Finest (and most expensive) Chrome shops in the U.S.
They restore, rechrome Anything from potmetal, diecast, stamped or spring steel. The Cragars , TT's , Appliance, ET wheels with a Chrome steel hoop and aluminum hub centers can be &quot;restored//rechromed&quot; ....
they also will Chrome any Non Porous aluminum wheels, anodized and stainless steel such as window mldgs.
Some members cars you see here and National Magazine Features and High End Builds feature Paul's Chrome.

[whitetop]

Be cautious on replating Cragars. I had 2 15x4's replated by Pauls and when placed with my 15x10 NOS rears the chrome did not match. The original chrome from the 60's and 70's was hexevelant and very few shops use this chrome as it has been nearly banned by the EPA

Pauls does very nice work the problem is his chrome has a brownish cast to it (Pauls admit to this) and makes the chrome look &quot;dark&quot;. Every chrome shop has a slightly different color..Advanced Plating in TN appears bluish.

The original Cragar chrome is Hexavelant and is a pure white/clear..the problem is very few chrome shops use hexavelant due to EPA. I found a shop out in CA that redid the wheels by Pauls in correct hexavelant..it did not cost much because ll they did was strip the chrome and left the base

Of course of you have all 4 wheels done that is different...though you still might see the brownish cast in certain light.

A friend of mine restored an famous old chopper and use 2 diff co'-use Pauls for the Columbus Springer front end-chrome did not match..He ended up replating the front end (used Custom Chrome out of Medina Oh)


Again nothing wrong with Pauls he does great work but if you have chrome from other co's say on your engine compartment you are going to see the difference in chrome &quot;color&quot;

[whitetop]

original 14x6 NOS sometime late 70's..with painted lug nut pocket

[whitetop]

early 15x10's nos with correct rim kickup Steve above with the 69 Camaro mentioned-See 15x10 on Steves camaro for difference. These do not have painted lug nut pocket

[whitetop]

15x4's with correct &quot;white chrome&quot; hexevelant chrome from the shop in Ca.

[whitetop]

NOS 14x6 with original painted lug nut pocket..good side view.

[Resurrected69ss]

White top what's the name of the shop you used in California for the correct chrome?

[Resurrected69ss]

I just want to say thanks again for the great replies and info on this subject! Made it that much easier to find the correct wheel for that era! Especially whitetop for all the knowledge on this! Thanks guys!

[68ys8030]

I thought the older ones had a different hoop ! Thanks whitetop !

[whitetop]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Resurrected69ss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">White top what's the name of the shop you used in California for the correct chrome? </div></div>

Give me a day or two to dig it out. Pauls Chrome gave me their number.

[Day2_69Z]

Wow..Whitetop is on Top of It.

I just compared my New Cragars to my NOS Bumper and my Rechromed bumper (by M&amp;P) and the Cragars are Super Brite, a whitish clear cast , the NOS. darker and without depth, the rechrome seems Deep, brite and yet not as whiteish....... The wheels and rechrome look great... the NOS is asking to be Rechromed !

[PxTx]

I've seen several (okay- at least 3) different hoops on the straight lug wheels. Both these below are 14x6 wheels. One is a 12/66 wheel and the other is 8/71 I guess.

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww101/Plowman7/Day%202%20Stuff/20141123_223718_zpsfe5b844d.jpg (http://s710.photobucket.com/user/Plowman7/media/Day%202%20Stuff/20141123_223718_zpsfe5b844d.jpg.html)

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww101/Plowman7/Day%202%20Stuff/20141123_223643_zps4b0b501c.jpg (http://s710.photobucket.com/user/Plowman7/media/Day%202%20Stuff/20141123_223643_zps4b0b501c.jpg.html)

Though these two are the same offset, I suspect there were a variety based on offset.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 68ys8030</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought the older ones had a different hoop ! Thanks whitetop ! </div></div>

[markinnaples]

Just a side note: Paul's Chrome was started by my business partner's good friend. I guess Paul sold the business but kept the building and name and continues to get rent and other income from Paul's Chrome nowadays. Interesting that they don't do that bright white chrome. So, which looks best, today's current brand new Cragars that have the bright white chrome or older ones that are rechromed? Or, does it depend on how well the chroming process is done on the older ones?

[69 Post Sedan]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: [email protected]</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When we judge Day-2 at MCACN they tell us to try to stay with a 1 year or so time frame on the Day-2 parts. Without dismounting the tire from the wheel and looking at the date its tough to see if that unilug/straight lug wheel is within the one year or so time frame. The flat spokes are a dead give-a-way. I personally tend to go a little further in the process because those Day-2 parts took a couple years at times to reach the cars back then. Some Speed Shop parts that were originally on my nova did not come out to the early 70's or so. Torquer intake manifolds , Cragar Super Tricks, tall valve covers etc. I even believe header mufflers were a product of the early 70's. Its a tough call on the time frame of these old parts. </div></div>

^^^^^X2^^^^^ Thanks for the input Sam!!!

[cook_dw]

14x6 &amp; 14x10

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v687/superslow/1967%20Camaro/IMG_3642_zpsc4669725.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/superslow/media/1967%20Camaro/IMG_3642_zpsc4669725.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v687/superslow/1967%20Camaro/IMG_3630_zps673e7080.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/superslow/media/1967%20Camaro/IMG_3630_zps673e7080.jpg.html)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v687/superslow/1967%20Camaro/CragarFront.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/superslow/media/1967%20Camaro/CragarFront.jpg.html)

[whitetop]

Love the look and the painted lug nut pocket
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cook_dw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">14x6 &amp; 14x10




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v687/superslow/1967%20Camaro/CragarFront.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/superslow/media/1967%20Camaro/CragarFront.jpg.html)

</div></div>

[whitetop]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: markinnaples</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just a side note: Paul's Chrome was started by my business partner's good friend. I guess Paul sold the business but kept the building and name and continues to get rent and other income from Paul's Chrome nowadays. Interesting that they don't do that bright white chrome. So, which looks best, today's current brand new Cragars that have the bright white chrome or older ones that are rechromed? Or, does it depend on how well the chroming process is done on the older ones? </div></div>

The 15x4's I had above are the correct Cragar hexevelant chrome and match the current Cragar chrome---though I should say factory Cragar chrome was thin and not as shiny as the current Cragar chrome. I would suspect Cragar is having their chrome done offshore and the wheels are welded together in the US.

I know Paul told me only a handful of chrome co's were still doing hexavelant chrome and this was 8-10 years ago.

[Resurrected69ss]

Whitetop was the name of the place Bolton classic wheels? I called a place in California and they recommended me to him he does hexevalant chroming.

[whitetop]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Resurrected69ss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Whitetop was the name of the place Bolton classic wheels? I called a place in California and they recommended me to him he does hexevalant chroming. </div></div>

That was not the name but it could have changed a name..the place I sent my wheels they did chrome plating on wheels I think mostly from manufacturers.
I will try to find the info.

[Salvatore]

You are the man Dave. Start writing the book!

[TheNovaMan]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: whitetop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would suspect Cragar is having their chrome done offshore and the wheels are welded together in the US.</div></div> In 2006, Cragar started casting their aluminum centers and wheels &quot;offshore&quot; but welding the centers into the rims in the USA. However, they are now switching back to all made in USA (if the scuttlebutt I've heard is correct).


I called Stockton Wheel Service (Stockton, CA) in early 2010 about re-chroming a pair of Cragars, and IIRC they were still using the hexavalent chroming process at that time. That was almost 5 years ago, so they may have switched to trivalent by now.

When you re-chrome a Cragar, do you have to cut the center out of the rim shell before chroming?

[whitetop]

I tried to find the name of the co that did the hexevalent but could not find it..though they may have a new name.. From google it appears hexavalent has all but been banned in CA. I have the co's name at home somewhere. Yes you have to cut out the center and after chroming have it welded back together.

I had mine lathed out by a competant shop and then had the steel on the spokes built up by weld and then machined back down for a tight fit but not too tight-slightly snug. make sure you have the chroming co cover the steel tabs or the two pieces will never go back together and they can't make the chrome on the rim to thick. on one wheel I had to grind down the chrome on the backside of the steel rim to make it fit but you would never see this once on the car.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheNovaMan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: whitetop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would suspect Cragar is having their chrome done offshore and the wheels are welded together in the US.</div></div> In 2006, Cragar started casting their aluminum centers and wheels &quot;offshore&quot; but welding the centers into the rims in the USA. However, they are now switching back to all made in USA (if the scuttlebutt I've heard is correct).


I called Stockton Wheel Service (Stockton, CA) in early 2010 about re-chroming a pair of Cragars, and IIRC they were still using the hexavalent chroming process at that time. That was almost 5 years ago, so they may have switched to trivalent by now.

When you re-chrome a Cragar, do you have to cut the center out of the rim shell before chroming? </div></div>

[whitetop]

Here is the co that did these in hexevalant:
Impressions Plating &amp; Polishing
1223 N. Batavia St
Orange CA 92867
714-639-1371

They replated the wheels I had done by Pauls. I think it was $250-275 per wheel but all they did was strip off the chrome but kept Pauls underlying copper and nickel so not much buffing or prep work. I liked their work but by the cap they buffed the nickel down a tad too much and the copper was slightly showing through ..maybe a 1/4 x 1/4 area so no biggie.



Again NOTHING wrong with Pauls..I have had many items done by him.outstanding work but it is not Cragar chrome. Pauls shipped the wheels to me and as soon as I opened the box my heart sank because of the brownish tint.

[TheNovaMan]

Not knowing was killing me, so I called Stockton Wheel. When they re-chrome a Cragar, they cut the center out of the rim shell, send both pieces out for re-chroming, and then weld the center back into the original rim shell. I'm not sure how they avoid destroying the rim shell, but they claim they can reuse the original. It turns out that's a very good thing, because they can't get 15x4 rim shells anymore. I asked the man if he knew whether the chrome shop they use does hexavalent or trivalent, and he did not know. Right now, it runs about $325/wheel to have them do it. That sounds suspiciously inexpensive to me.

I also called Advanced Plating. They don't do wheels, but they do use hexavalent chromium in their baths <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif

[whitetop]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheNovaMan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> but they claim they can reuse the original. It turns out that's a very good thing, because they can't get 15x4 rim shells anymore. </div></div>

My original were used. Again after lathing the wheels apart some of the steel tab is going to be gone so you have to have a welder build back the steel tab and machine or lathe it down to specs as it would have been before Cragar welded them together originally

[whitetop]

The wheels I had redone are a 100 times better than original Cragar quality. One wheel had the tire valve 3/4 across the opening between the spokes-not lined up properly and several places had poor casting quality( small air pockets in the aluminum) or indented bevels, gouge marks that were originally just plated over from the original Cragar plate job and Pauls fixed that up.

70's Cragar wheel quality was horrendous.

[BillD]

[quote=TheNovaMan]Not knowing was killing me, so I called Stockton Wheel. When they re-chrome a Cragar, they cut the center out of the rim shell, send both pieces out for re-chroming, and then weld the center back into the original rim shell. I'm not sure how they avoid destroying the rim shell, but they claim they can reuse the original. It turns out that's a very good thing, because they can't get 15x4 rim shells anymore. I asked the man if he knew whether the chrome shop they use does hexavalent or trivalent, and he did not know. Right now, it runs about $325/wheel to have them do it. That sounds suspiciously inexpensive to me.

I have had several pairs of Cragars done by Stockton and have been happy with the result. I do not know the type of chrome that was used but could post a photo of the replated wheels later if anyone is interested. I know the rims were taken apart before chroming as I was warned that they could break prior to starting the process.

[Resurrected69ss]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: whitetop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is the co that did these in hexevalant:
Impressions Plating &amp; Polishing
1223 N. Batavia St
Orange CA 92867
714-639-1371

They replated the wheels I had done by Pauls. I think it was $250-275 per wheel but all they did was strip off the chrome but kept Pauls underlying copper and nickel so not much buffing or prep work. I liked their work but by the cap they buffed the nickel down a tad too much and the copper was slightly showing through ..maybe a 1/4 x 1/4 area so no biggie.



Again NOTHING wrong with Pauls..I have had many items done by him.outstanding work but it is not Cragar chrome. Pauls shipped the wheels to me and as soon as I opened the box my heart sank because of the brownish tint. </div></div>

Awesome thanks Dave!!

[TheNovaMan]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: whitetop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My original were used. Again after lathing the wheels apart some of the steel tab is going to be gone so you have to have a welder build back the steel tab and machine or lathe it down to specs as it would have been before Cragar welded them together originally</div></div> What I can't understand is how they can reuse the rim after they've cut so much metal out of it to free the center. Does a 4&quot; wide wheel become 3 13/16&quot; wide?

[whitetop]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheNovaMan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: whitetop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My original were used. Again after lathing the wheels apart some of the steel tab is going to be gone so you have to have a welder build back the steel tab and machine or lathe it down to specs as it would have been before Cragar welded them together originally</div></div> What I can't understand is how they can reuse the rim after they've cut so much metal out of it to free the center. Does a 4&quot; wide wheel become 3 13/16&quot; wide? </div></div>

You lathe cut from the backside of the wheel along the 5 tab points it is welded to the rim. The outer steel rim is not damaged. What you are cutting is the weld and part of the tabs-why the tabs need to be built up with weld afterward and then lathed down

[TheNovaMan]

Aaaah, now I understand. Thanks.

[1967 4K]

Try Atlas Plating in Houston, TX. They replated my Cragar 15x4 without cutting apart. Excellent job for $250.00 each

1967 4K

[scuncio]

Anyone have a recommendation for a silver paint to dust the lug area? Where should I mask?

Thanks!

[Hemicolt]

Whitetop posted the type of paint here:

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&amp;Number=455335&amp;page=6

[whitetop]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: scuncio</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone have a recommendation for a silver paint to dust the lug area? Where should I mask?

Thanks! </div></div>

Here is a pic of my 14x6 nos..I have seem some painted very lightly and some so heavy the paint ran..depended on the employee and their attitude that day.

The lug nut pocket is lightly fogged..

[69 Post Sedan]

I took some pictures to show some of the differences between the old (1971) Cragar SS center caps without the &quot;R&quot; (registered trademark) and a newer (2004) SS cap.

The &quot;R&quot; is the most obvious but there are other subtle differences......including the retaining washer/screw.

Kurt

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/02/full-4752-21176-dsc00937.jpg

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/02/full-4752-21177-dsc00938.jpg

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/02/full-4752-21178-dsc00940.jpg

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/02/full-4752-21179-dsc00941.jpg

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/02/full-4752-21180-dsc00944.jpg

[earntaz]

And made where -- UGH!

[m22mike]

Me too.... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/sick.gif

[TheNovaMan]

I happen to have one of my Cragars off my Nova, so I removed the center cap an took a couple pics. My wheels were made in 1999.

http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo154/TheNovaMan/Miscellaneous/CragarCap1_zpst9cma5af.jpg
http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo154/TheNovaMan/Miscellaneous/CragarCap2_zpszp476tg3.jpg

I can't stand China, but Taiwan is... well, OK with me. I guess. Just barely.

[69 Post Sedan]

Someone got a smoking deal on some 15x8 Cragar S/S wheels with 4.25 BS.

I would have bought them in a heartbeat for $200 +shipping....even though they are unilug.

Anyone here get them?

Kurt

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Of-Cragar-PN-61815-S-S-Super-Sport-Chrome-Wheel-15-x8-5x4-75-BC-/153254989620

[NorCam]

Not me... :burnout:

[Bernhard]

Not Me
I'm only happy when I pay retail

[whitetop]

Slightly used. valve stems installed, you can see the outline of washers over lug not holes and rubber remians on inside of rim. Still a great deal.

Someone got a smoking deal on some 15x8 Cragar S/S wheels with 4.25 BS.

I would have bought them in a heartbeat for $200 +shipping....even though they are unilug.

Anyone here get them?

Kurt

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Of-Cragar-PN-61815-S-S-Super-Sport-Chrome-Wheel-15-x8-5x4-75-BC-/153254989620

[GrumpyJeff]

Not Me
I'm only happy when I pay retail
Ha! I seem to always be the one who always raises the bar on current market value on lots of stuff !