First year 4-speed?

[442w30]

Hi...what's the first year Chevrolet installed a 4-speed in a big car? I'm guessing 1959.

What about floor-shifted 3-speed manual? For this one, I have no idea.

Thanks!

[m22mike]

I asked that same question to a local big car guy that grew up with those cars, and he also thought it was 1959 for big Chevrolets.
Vern, you know ?

Mike

[elcamino72]

I think it was 1957 mid way through the production year.

[m22mike]

If you look here http://www.348-409.com/1959factpage.html and check the 59 higlights they list 4 speed, I do not see it in earlier years.
I will keep digging, I am staying with 59.. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif

[Verne_Frantz]

1959 was the first year for it to be an RPO in a Passenger car. (no production totals available) They were the same trans that was used in the Corvette (all close ratio) and used the longer shift rods. Only available on the 348s and the two F.I. 283s. Dealers installed them in '57s and '58s though.

Verne <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

[69B Z28]

Actually, I think 1958 was the first year you could get a 4-speed in the full size Chevrolets.
They show it as an option in the 1958 literature and I remember my Dad saying he was disappointed
it was offered a year after he ordered his new 1957.

[Verne_Frantz]

There is an RPO # listed for '58 but with no pricing. I don't believe any were made at the factories. My opinion is that they were shipped in the car for the dealer to install. I have a TSB somewhere that lists all the parts required to do the conversion.

Verne <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/flag.gif

[442w30]

Thanks for the replies so far.


Verne, when did they start keeping production records for 4-speeds? I'm guessing 1962?

I remember as a kid there was an article on a '57 Fuelie that had a 4-speed, but they said it was dealer-installed. And I think there was a Collectible Automobile magazine that had a '58 Fuelie convertible with the same thing. I just wasn't sure because most of the literature shows 1959 was the first year (at least from the factory).

[Verne_Frantz]

The first production totals I have for a 4-speed transmission (other than Corvette) are for 1961. Prod: 7,073. 1962 Prod: 25,448. Quite a jump. 1963 Prod: 43,138. 1964 Prod: 48,470. Those numbers are for Regular Passenger. The Corvair numbers are much higher!

Verne <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

[m22mike]

Thanks Vern, that is what I understood. sYc has the smart guys.. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

[bigsixman]

They were available for the 59 models, my friend had a 348&quot;/305 hp factory 4 speed Impala.

[442w30]

I have some Ward's Yearbooks that give some numbers by percentages, but I don't think they started tabulating 4-speed numbers till 1961 or '62 - I'd have to check.

On a related note, here's something interesting from <span style="font-style: italic">Automotive News</span>. Haven't perused the earlier years to see if there's a similar tabulation.

http://i.imgur.com/lfYqShd.jpg?1

[Day2_69Z]

Here goes, this came from my Dad who was affiliated with a Top high performance Chevy dealer previous to 1957 and well into the 60's. Clark Chevrolet on Kennywood Blvd. Duquesne,Pa. (Homestead area).

Mr Alvin Forsythe, owner of the dealership was a renowned road racer affiliated with and competing against Don Yenko in the late 50's- late 60's.
The 4 speed option first appeared in June of 57 for the solid lifter &amp; upper end hydraulic dual 4's Corvettes.
Available in July as delivered from special orders only (non refundable deposits reauired) only a few were built, maybe less than 1,000 model year 1957, that said, Mr Forsythe was able to order spare transmissions anda few cars that frequently were delayed.
Moving to 1958, the transmissions first appeared (in print) as being service replacements and over the counter to the public.Rumblings of being an RPO never developed until late '58 when they appeared on option sheets suggesting hi performance use and bulletins to service departments &amp; parts departments to carry them along with related spare parts for the upcoming 1959 model year release.

Therefore 1959 was the first official model year available for orders &amp; stocking units. Very few cars were actually built a guesstimate would be 3,000-4,000 between body styles and engine choices (exclusive to V8's, obviously)
GM Recommended use with the bigger 348's &amp; the 220 HP.283 4 barrel engines, but were available to all V8 cars, again ,GM recommended a lower gear in base engines. They also recommended 'posi-trac' option.

Most 348's with the solid lifter 315 HP engines were customer ordered with 4 speeds along with a few 280 &amp; 250 horse engines,,,not all got them as the 315's were a hushed priority for them.(GM,although not officially in racing knew most were ordered for Competition use). GM had a HD 3 Speed available for substitution.

As a side note Dad wanted to add this info as well:
In 1957 Harold Ramsey running out of Deleware won the NHRA Nationals ,he believed held in Texas (?) in SUPER STOCK running a 283 Fuel Injected 57 Chevy with a 3 speed trans.

Also 9-10 years later, around 1967 Bruce Morgan from California in a '57 Chevy was competing for the World Championship and NHRA along with Chevys blessing grandfathered in the use of GM 4 speed transmissions as back in 57 they were available as replacement, service, customer requested and over the counter purchase. Needless to say, Bruce Morgan went on to Win the Championship with a nearly unbeatable combination.

Second side note: In 1959 Olds &amp; Pontiac were awarded use &amp; availability to the Chevrolet developed
4 speed transmissions for the J-2 multiple carbed HP unit and the Poncho Fuelie package.

Thanks Dad !
Dad's 78, sharp as Erica's reaction times and was a successful small guy racer back then along with being a top notch mechanic,tuner,set up guy and driver. He competed throughout Western Pa.&amp; Ohio against the top cars, teams &amp; drivers of the day.
Nick named &quot;Cheater Joe&quot; by a tech inspector from Pesque Isle Drag Strip when he &quot;Beat the Top Dog&quot; they featured in the Event advertisements... running back to thd pits, trophy and cash in hand,1958. And again won the Finals to claim the Regional Championship in 1962.
(2 different '57 Chevy Bel airs....

[novadude]

While we are on the history of 4-speeds topic....

The new &quot;Muncie&quot; book by Paul C. of 5speeds.com has a lot of great information on when certain design changes were incorporated, casting numbers for components, etc.

http://www.5speeds.com/bookviewer.html

I bought a copy, and I think it's a good resource if you are building / ID'ing Muncie transmissions.

Anyway... the one thing I learned from the book is that GM actually designed the T10 and had it produced by Borg-Warner. They later licensed it to Borg-Warner, and made money off of everyone Borg-Warner sold in the '60s. The Muncie was an evolution of the original T-10 design.

I knew that the transmissions were closely related, but I always thought GM &quot;reverse engineered&quot; the T10 to develop the Muncie. I didn't know that they developed the T10 in the first place (working with Borg-Warner Engineers, no doubt).

[Day2_69Z]

good stuff John

[442w30]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Day2_69Z</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Second side note: In 1959 Olds &amp; Pontiac were awarded use &amp; availability to the Chevrolet developed
4 speed transmissions for the J-2 multiple carbed HP unit and the Poncho Fuelie package.

</div></div>

Thanks for the in-depth post!

However, the J-2 was discontinued after 1958; ditto Pontiac's fuel injection.

I don't think a full-size Olds got a 4-speed until 1964, and Pontiac was 1960 if I am correct.

[Verne_Frantz]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Day2_69Z</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here goes, this came from my Dad who was affiliated with a Top high performance Chevy dealer previous to 1957 and well into the 60's. Clark Chevrolet on Kennywood Blvd. Duquesne,Pa. (Homestead area).

Mr Alvin Forsythe, owner of the dealership was a renowned road racer affiliated with and competing against Don Yenko in the late 50's- late 60's.
The 4 speed option first appeared in June of 57 for the solid lifter &amp; upper end hydraulic dual 4's Corvettes.
Available in July as delivered from special orders only (non refundable deposits reauired) only a few were built, maybe less than 1,000 model year 1957, that said, Mr Forsythe was able to order spare transmissions anda few cars that frequently were delayed.
Moving to 1958, the transmissions first appeared (in print) as being service replacements and over the counter to the public.Rumblings of being an RPO never developed until late '58 when they appeared on option sheets suggesting hi performance use and bulletins to service departments &amp; parts departments to carry them along with related spare parts for the upcoming 1959 model year release.

Therefore 1959 was the first official model year available for orders &amp; stocking units. Very few cars were actually built a guesstimate would be 3,000-4,000 between body styles and engine choices (exclusive to V8's, obviously)
GM Recommended use with the bigger 348's <span style="font-weight: bold">&amp; <span style="color: #FF0000">the 220 HP.283 4 barrel engines, but were available to all V8 cars,</span></span> again ,GM recommended a lower gear in base engines. They also recommended 'posi-trac' option.

Most 348's with the solid lifter 315 HP engines were customer ordered with 4 speeds along with a few 280 &amp; 250 horse engines,,,not all got them as the 315's were a hushed priority for them.(GM,although not officially in racing knew most were ordered for Competition use). GM had a HD 3 Speed available for substitution.

As a side note Dad wanted to add this info as well:
In 1957 Harold Ramsey running out of Deleware won the NHRA Nationals ,he believed held in Texas (?) in SUPER STOCK running a 283 Fuel Injected 57 Chevy with a 3 speed trans.

Also 9-10 years later, around 1967 Bruce Morgan from California in a '57 Chevy was competing for the World Championship and NHRA along with Chevys blessing grandfathered in the use of GM 4 speed transmissions as back in 57 they were available as replacement, service, customer requested and over the counter purchase. Needless to say, Bruce Morgan went on to Win the Championship with a nearly unbeatable combination.

Second side note: In 1959 Olds &amp; Pontiac were awarded use &amp; availability to the Chevrolet developed
4 speed transmissions for the J-2 multiple carbed HP unit and the Poncho Fuelie package.

Thanks Dad !
Dad's 78, sharp as Erica's reaction times and was a successful small guy racer back then along with being a top notch mechanic,tuner,set up guy and driver. He competed throughout Western Pa.&amp; Ohio against the top cars, teams &amp; drivers of the day.
Nick named &quot;Cheater Joe&quot; by a tech inspector from Pesque Isle Drag Strip when he &quot;Beat the Top Dog&quot; they featured in the Event advertisements... running back to thd pits, trophy and cash in hand,1958. And again won the Finals to claim the Regional Championship in 1962.
(2 different '57 Chevy Bel airs....

</div></div>

No offense to your Dad, but the 4-spd was ONLY available on 348s and the 2 FI 283s. No other 283s could be ordered with the 4-spd in '59. The std rear ratio for all 4-spds was 3.55.

Verne <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

[Day2_69Z]

Verne,
I agree with your assessment ...albeit at the time GM said available... as I stated...I didn't note any were built...Dad said he only knew of 348's actually got them, limited to restraints in parts and what Dealers or customers requested ordered cars.

I apologize in my wording, as my post pwas long enough and missed a few things that GM funneled to certain dealers in the form of HP pieces compatible for 'racing'.....
I had that conversation with my Dad just before I posted it .....he gave all that info right off the top of his head.....god bless him.....like it was Yesterday.
I'll re ask him of actual cars he prepped &amp; tuned when new
and about those special duty pieces...
Thanks for your insight snd info....
By the way, Mr Forsythe also Acquired a Big Brake, Big Tank Black 63 split window Fuelie before most other Dealers and Road raced that dominating car for years..
(the 63 is still local in semi raced form)

He also received one of the very first Z16 Chevelles, a Crocus Yellow, Black vinyl roof car....I rode in that car as a 6 year old..as Dad reminded me... uhhh. I have no recall to that, but he sure did.

Regards,
Tom

[Tracker1]

You're lucky to have a Dad like that Tom <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/worship.gif

[PeteLeathersac]

What a great informative thread on this subject from all!
So nice to hear you still have your Dad Tom, Merry Christmas to him and your family!
<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif
~ Pete

[Day2_69Z]

Pete &amp; Tracker 1,
Thank you &amp; your welcome.
Great Dads are far and few between....
He's also our best friend,toughest critic and first to praise......yet extremely quick to judge.

When it comes to family, the world stops.
When it comes to cars &amp; racing he's our first go to guy....
a wealth of knowledge like I've never seen, not just because he's dad, but because when he talks,people listen.
He can identity older cars &amp; there year just by seeing 1 or 2 body parts......
As kids,my brother and I would challenge him as we rode to car or racing events by asking him to identify speeding by cars..... I think he's still undefeated..... lol..

What a treasure we have....

Regards to all

Merry Christmas too any and all who has ever pulled 3 gears smoothly with out use of the clutch pedal.....first thing he taught us learning to drive 4 speeds.....

Tom &amp; Freda