COPO BE rear on craigslist

[WorkinProgress]

Not mine, just passing it along.

1969 Camaro 12 bolt BE posi. BE code heavy duty, casting date E-5-9. On rt. axle tube BE 0519g1. Rare copo 12 bolt posi. Make offer.

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ank/pts/4852565240.html

[the427king]

IN 30 YEARS OF BUYING PARTS I HAVE YET TO SEE A GUY THAT BUYS RARE PARTS PASS ALONG INFO TO A REAL RARE PART UNLESS THAT PART IS EITHER ALREADY KNOWN TO BE TOO EXPENSIVE, NOT REAL, OR ALREADY SOLD. WHICH OF THE THREE IS THIS? <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif

[starrider]

BEWARE !!!!!! a guy in the same area code by the name of Frank K got me on a restamped BE!

[m22mike]

Would be nice to see the stamp, looks like a good date, I have 2 0519 G2.

Mike

[Steve Shauger]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: the427king</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IN 30 YEARS OF BUYING PARTS I HAVE YET TO SEE A GUY THAT BUYS RARE PARTS PASS ALONG INFO TO A REAL RARE PART UNLESS THAT PART IS EITHER ALREADY KNOWN TO BE TOO EXPENSIVE, NOT REAL, OR ALREADY SOLD. WHICH OF THE THREE IS THIS? <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif </div></div>

Chuck are you including yourself ? <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif

[miket1]

Probably over priced like most parts today.,unless you really need that part.

[m22mike]

Just to clarify my last post...I have pictures of 2, not the actual BE, sorry for any confusion.

Chuck...whar's up with your &quot;CAP LOCK&quot; <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif

[the427king]

Forgot to mention Brent396 he always finds a lot of neat ads and auctions and lists them here.

[Kurt S]

The guy has this axle in several craiglist ads all over the country.
I saw pics. Date looks OK, but the E in BE looks modified....

[Kurt S]

By popular demand....

[SuperNovaSS]

Wow, that is suspect.


Jason

[PeteLeathersac]

Looks like acid etching or whatever you call it?
Similar work of a few retouched/bogus blocks we've looked at here in the past too?
<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif
~ Pete

[L78steve]

Looks like a BS stamp to me.

[1969L78Nova]

Looks like a &quot;BP&quot; (Ball Peen)stamp

[m22mike]

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif well that's interesting

[L89DRMR]

An obvious altered &quot;E&quot;. The &quot;E&quot; is in a large depression caused by grinding. Interesting that the large crater is precisely where the &quot;E&quot; was re-stamped. It appears to me that the person added similar but smaller craters in the stamping area in an attempt to deceive by making it seem as though the craters are typical.

Dave

[chevyman0429]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1969L78Nova</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks like a &quot;BP&quot; (Ball Peen)stamp </div></div>

I believe the original letter has been peened over and restamped.

[markjohnson]

.

[miket1]

Very Interesting???? xo/f&amp;#

[luzl78]

That certainly looks like a former F.

[Fast67VelleN2O]

http://www.troll.me/images/crazy-eyes/looks-good-to-me.jpg

[Day2_69Z]

Wow, that is a bad disquise, hammer dents and stamp.....lotta red flags.
I wonder whats under the cover ?
There is definately a curved letter under the E...a U or C or ?

The font looks right on , but the position of the E is terrible.....
jmo...I'd pass, if I needed a real one I'd contact Enio...or Chuck

[luzl78]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: L78steve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks like a BS stamp to me. </div></div>i take it back. It's a former S as steve says, not an F.

[x77-69z28]

Or BL

[the427king]

Ive had a BV rear with 519 date before. The V almost looks still visible under the E now that I look at it again.

[m22mike]

The other fishy thing is the placement of the eaton posi single &quot;E&quot; under the main stamp, I have never seen one that far from apporximate center

Mike

[mbxlesney]

Doesnt the BE rearend have straight axle tubes from the carrier to the axle flange whereas the BV and other lesser 12 bolts have a taper in the last 1/2 inch or so at the rear side of the flange where the backing plate bolts are. I always thought BE 12 bolts had the larger Full Sized (Impala) etc outboard axle bearings and larger carrier bearings also? I know there was no pic of this area but can someone tell a BE by external appearances besides the stamping. Ive read the gears are heat treated also. Can anyone shed any light on this? Just curious Thanks

[Steve Shauger]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m22mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The other fishy thing is the placement of the eaton posi single &quot;E&quot; under the main stamp, I have never seen one that far from apporximate center

Mike </div></div>

Mike I agree with you. I'm betting it started life as a BL 307 non posi and the E (Eaton ) was added as well.

[Stefano]

Same 12 bolt housing.

[PeteLeathersac]

The tapered tubes or not mbx' is thinking of is actually a JL8 thing.
I forget which is what but believe tapered or not indicates factory installed JL8 units compared to over the counter service parts.

Back to the bogus BE, is the 'stamping' not done w/ acid...a Timothy Leary follower perhaps?
Note the craters you can see when looking closely, again similar work to some altered pads and stampings we've looked at here before.
<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif
~ Pete

[SuperNovaSS]

Doesn't look like acid to me. It looks like someone peened over the old letter , then stamped both E's.


Jason

[PeteLeathersac]

Look closer as the letters appear altered but not restamped w/ a hit.
It'd probably be more obvious to eyeballs and touch than a picture but what's left of the original stampings appear whiter/thinner and the areas added more brownish and fatter also more work's been done on parts of the original stampings to blend in, especially the B.
I see at least 3 obvious acid craters in the upper part of the B also a bunch on both E's, especially towards the tips of the horizontal legs...how could restamping cause this?
<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif
~ Pete



http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/01/full-2506-20577-image.jpg

[ANDY M]

This looks nothing like the stamp on my axle. The BE looks suspect, and too far from the numbers. I'll look for a picture of mine.
Andy

[69LM1]

Looks like a BL rear to me as well....

Rich

[camaromb]

I hope the pictures after wire brushing are posted by the owner, the stamps are better to see. It is certainly odd that the E is not in the normal place and the stamp appears out of the norm also. If someone was faking a BE why would they not get BE money for it? This 12 bolt was under a 6 cyl Camaro purchased for $ 3k last week, and it had the correctly dated BE posi unit. Those are not easy to find.

It reminds me of the RS Copo Camaro on Ebay a few years ago, tired old ex race car the woman owned in Florida. That car had a BE and an original curved neck in it, frost green with deluxe interior. It was bashed as being a made up car. The current owner of this Ebay car has paperwork from the original owner showing it was a Copo car. Never say never.

[scuncio]

Interesting to learn the rest of the story. I agree that some aircraft stripper and a very mild nylon brush would really help see the stamping.

[cdn454LS6]

Why are there hit/dimple marks all round the E everywhere else is smooth?

[mbxlesney]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stefano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Same 12 bolt housing. </div></div>

Thanks Stefano and Peter for the replies. One could never stop learning about these cars...especially COPOs. Pete I did remember a article on a 12 bolt with tapered axle tubes and maybe it was about the JL8 <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

[61 vert]

The hammer marks would suggest to me that it was mistamped when manufactured originally . Assembly line guy hit it with the wrong stamp flipped his hammer over, peened it back smooth or reasonably close and restamped it with the E.You guys seem to forget that these were all done by hand and mistakes were made.Someone needs to snap it up for their next COPO restoration project.

[61 vert]

I have been corrected. It appears that if a part was mistamped at the factory, a special stamp was stamped over the mistake and then the correct stamp placed elsewhere. Learn something every day.

[Kurt S]

I've never seen a misstamped axle that I can recall.

[69LM1]

Here is a BL coded rear I have in the garage:

http://www.69lm1.com/parts/rear/pn.jpg

This is the one here:

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/download/Number/42757/filename/axle_BE0519G1_restamp2.jpg

To me, looks like the bottom of the &quot;E&quot; in BE looks like the &quot;L&quot; in BL

Rich

[x77-69z28]

I'm with you on that Rich.

[L78steve]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kurt S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've never seen a misstamped axle that I can recall. </div></div>

He's one for you Kurt.
I have the POP to back it up.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/01/full-3467-20728-cbt_axle_002.jpg

[neresto]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/01/full-11877-20729-image.jpg

[Kurt S]

I knew if I said that, pics would appear. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif
The second one looks like alphabet practice.

[70 copo]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: L78steve</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kurt S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've never seen a misstamped axle that I can recall. </div></div>

He's one for you Kurt.
I have the POP to back it up.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/01/full-3467-20728-cbt_axle_002.jpg
</div></div>

Both images look like the standard method of correcting a miss stamp at the factory.

First obliterate the previous mark and then correct. I have seen engine blocks where the stamping was corrected in this way. Not pretty but that is the way it was.

Thanks for posting.

[70 copo]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kurt S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I knew if I said that, pics would appear. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif
The second one looks like alphabet practice. </div></div>

This condition is typical of the quality and performance issues encountered when a replacement worker is assigned to an element and does not understand how to properly perform the element.

More common than you would think.

[Fast67VelleN2O]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/01/full-2506-20577-image.jpg

Honestly, this looks like a BL stamp to me that someone altered. The only way I would ever say this *might* be legit was if it had a correctly dated COPO posi unit and ring and pinion in it and it was in &quot;as found&quot; condition and not painted or fluffed.

[70 copo]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fast67VelleN2O</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/01/full-2506-20577-image.jpg

Honestly, this looks like a BL stamp to me that someone altered. The only way I would ever say this *might* be legit was if it had a correctly dated COPO posi unit and ring and pinion in it and it was in &quot;as found&quot; condition and not painted or fluffed. </div></div>


Exactly....on the dated COPO R&amp;P portion of the comment.

I am not going to offer opinion either way on the subject rear end. What I will say is that the obliteration marks are consistent with a known manufacturing plant correction technique as recalled to me by the spring and axle line workers.

It is troubling that segments in hobby keep calling most everything with a stamp deviation that does not fit a narrow interpretation fake. If we do this most all of the time we are collectively doomed to learn nothing new before the &quot;living past&quot; transitions into history.

The living past in my statement is in reference to still living line workers who installed these assemblies.

Of course the matter is sealed and left to us to figure out what we can - when remaining workers who can tell us what happened eventually pass away.

That is when this portion of the hobby truly passes into the historical context.

[SS427]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 70 copo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> What I will say is that the obliteration marks are consistent with a known manufacturing plant correction technique as recalled to me by the spring and axle line workers. It is troubling that segments in hobby keep calling most everything with a stamp deviation that does not fit a narrow interpretation fake. </div></div>

You make a good point Phil. With as many inspections that I do every year it has almost gone the other way. When the stamps look too perfect I start to worry. I wrote off a CRV 3.31 rearend as being a restamp about 2 years ago and actually bought it and put it into my inventory. I thought it was fake as you could clearly see that the face had been hastily ground off and restamped in the stamp area of the axle tube. Fast forward 2 years and I get another LS6 in the shop. While inspecting it I see the same exact thing while forgetting about the other rearend. I was going to write it off as a restamp as well but something kept nagging me. I finally remembered the other rearend and bingo, almost identical and within 5 days of the car in the shop. I conferred with Chris White who also confirmed that he felt it was real. Never say never! This is also why documenting these types of anomalies are so important.

[ds1]

Mistakes like that can be a black ball on a car. And the EXPERTS are the ones to blame.

[camaromb]

My low mile LS6 also had a ground axle stamp area, not typical thats for sure. I will post pictures of the BE in question after the paint was stripped. The oxidation is very consistent in all the stamps. I think it is just a non-typical stamp, especially since it has a very difficult to find dated BE posi in it.

[Kurt S]

Here's a better pic. It is not an 'anomaly', IMO.

If the collective wants, I will stop giving opinions on stamps. It's low pay anyway....

[Day2_69Z]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: camaromb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My low mile LS6 also had a ground axle stamp area, not typical thats for sure. I will post pictures of the BE in question after the paint was stripped. The oxidation is very consistent in all the stamps. I think it is just a non-typical stamp, especially since it has a very difficult to find dated BE posi in it.</div></div>

So, you're saying the internals are COPO ? The carrier internals &amp; R&amp;P are correct ?

[SS427]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ds1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mistakes like that can be a black ball on a car. And the EXPERTS are the ones to blame. </div></div>

I disagree with you and it is often times the EXPERTS do the homework and research to prove that an anomaly is in fact a factory defect. Case in point.

[Steve Shauger]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kurt S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's a better pic. It is not an 'anomaly', IMO.

If the collective wants, I will stop giving opinions on stamps. It's low pay anyway.... </div></div>

Kurt your expertise and opinion is welcomed and appreciated.

[ds1]

It is a double edged sword. We look to them for answers to our questions. They are necessary. But because one says with Authority something is a fake when it may not, there is a dog pile against it. And it depends on the expert. One expert here in the east has a bad reputation because of his making mistakes and his ego. He is attacked on this site regularly. Galen Govier has tarnished his reputation passing off bad cars. Personally I think the rear in this topic looked bad or suspicious. I followed this topic to see where it went. You pointed out that it looks like one you have and others have said it looks like established practices to repair mistakes. I want to learn by being informed and not be told if something does not fit into a narrow margin of what is established as being correct. A point made earlier in this topic. These were production built. No two alike. We have a 67 GTO my uncle bought in 69 with the ugliest firewall. Turns out it has an AC firewall on a car that never came with AC. How, Why? It was just built that way. I was a little hard on the &quot;experts&quot; in my first post. My point is that when they give their opinion it is hard to change mindset after making their opinion known.

[camaromb]

This rearend in question has a E 9 J dated posi with correct side gears, round spring plate, etc. The gear set is not original, Richmond.

[SS427]

If not for the &quot;experts&quot; (which I am by no means not one) many people would have been screwed at auctions and private sales. To my knowledge no one has ever gotten a bogus car by me though it will happen some day, I am only human. In the meantime I have saved many people hundreds of thousands of dollars by not making big mistakes.

Unlike some other inspectors, I will NOT certify a car. Reason being, if I were not an honest man I guarantee I could build a totally bogus LS6 convertible and sell it for many hundreds of thousands of dollars and no one would be the wiser. If I can do it, so can someone else so there is no way I am going to certify a car as being real because today that is nearly impossible. I will write a report with my best professional opinion on real or built but that is it. This is one of the reasons I am SO against re-manufactured or &quot;tribute&quot; paperwork as it will SOMEDAY get into the wrong hands. Mark it as a reproduction or make a list of VIN's public if you want to help the hobby.

[70 copo]

This got my attention:

http://www.camaros.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-176365.html

[ds1]

I agree with you. But when you put yourself out there as an expert, you open yourself up to being questioned. Just have to be careful with wording when a car or part in question does not fit what is the known norm. I am dealing with a rare car now that has a questionable part. The experts report says he &quot;thinks&quot; it is a restamp. The seller contends that it was not when the car was examined. We know it has been retamped but when? And because it is restamped does not mean that it is not the factory original part. This is a small ding against the car. But the cowl tag guarantees it is real as well as the second owner who is friends with a big collector here in PA.

[RST]

Very interesting reading guys,

This is why I love this site and why we always seek input from people we consider to be the most knowledgeable people in the industry to advise us on any and all cars we pursue. To me the very best documentation you have today is a notarized affidavit from the original owner stating what he or she knows and purchased. As stated by many here, these are old cars, and have in most cases been through many people’s hands over the years. They were built by people, NOT machines, the inventories on the line were done by hand, not tracked by computers, and they didn’t have cameras at every production point in the line. We know for a fact that all kinds of wired things happened on the line and we can only rely on the most knowledgeable people to provide input based on their expert opinions of individual anomalies. Thank you all who have taken the time to provide input here on this thread and in other posts.

Let’s keep our great hobby alive and well!

[ds1]

RST My personal Z28 I have spoken to the original owner several times. He ordered the car. I can not get him to put anything in writing. I have asked. All I have is our conversations. Wish I could get something. Luckily NCRS offered the shipping reports that backed him telling me he ordered the car from Berger. I have the POP that backs it options, but for some that is not enough. I come here to learn because I am a student of history. There is a lot of great info all over the internet. How someone uses the knowledge can be either good or bad.

[RST]

ds1,

That is a bummer that he will not sign a verification letter for you, some of these old timers are very Leary of anytime official, my dad paid for everything with Money Orders for years because he did not want his money in a bank. We had an issue some time ago from an original owner who did not want to sign anything, he finally told us it was because he was embarrassed because the car had been re-possessed by the bank. He finally agreed and we left that part out of the story. Keep tying with your guy, hopefully he will understand that it is an important part of documenting an important car that he ordered <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

[m22mike]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m22mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The other fishy thing is the placement of the eaton posi single &quot;E&quot; under the main stamp, I have never seen one that far from apporximate center

Mike </div></div>

After looking at my pictures again, I found this one with the &quot;E&quot; a bit to the left, so I guess that may not be that big of a deal. And after seeing another , and better photo of the BE in question here I am not ready to throw it under the bus, and it is a good date, along with what Mark B added about the guts.
Some good points have been made here about the the hand done aspect of these stamps, when we find a rare housing like this we all like to see that perfect stamp, except it does not exist.
How many BE's have been not hit square and all the skeptics see a BL ?
Would be interesting to see any BL's with this date, except who takes pictures of a BL <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif
Keep an open mind, these cars were crap sometimes.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/01/full-2974-20775-be_0624.jpg

Another 0519
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/01/full-2974-20776-be0519.jpg

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/01/full-2974-20780-be_0519.jpg

[camaromb]

Mike,
Thanks for posting the BE pics, the first 519BE you showed has the same fat ends on the E of the BE as the one in question. Most of the stamps have a more crisp straight line. I don't know myself on this BE but who would fake a BE with a real dated Copo posi unit and sell it cheap, that makes no sense. Here is a picture of the cast date of the BE in this discussion.

[69LM1]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m22mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> except who takes pictures of a BL <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif
</div></div>

Me... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif Lots of LM1's had them

Rich

[miket1]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 69LM1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Here is a BL coded rear I have in the garage:

http://www.69lm1.com/parts/rear/pn.jpg

This is the one here:

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/download/Number/42757/filename/axle_BE0519G1_restamp2.jpg

To me, looks like the bottom of the &quot;E&quot; in BE looks like the &quot;L&quot; in BL

Rich </div></div>

The BE in question does Not look like any kind of stamp, like the BL stamp does, looks like it was hacked out with a center punch, and a bad job of hacking, just my opinion from owning and messing with these cars since 1967, I am not an expert at all,

[bergy]

I'm not pretending to be an expert, but I can tell you that at Tonawanda we didn't usually grind bad stamped numbers off. We would just &quot;X&quot; out the wrong number and re-stamp the correct number. It was never a good idea to turn the production/QC employees loose with a grinder when it wasn't necessary. We WOULD grind off erroneous raised part numbers and stamp the correct part number in their place. I spent a week doing that to exhaust manifolds as a GMI student :-)

Question - if you were selling a real &quot;BE&quot; rear - wouldn't you remove the paint so that people could see the detail of the stamp clearly?

[SuperNovaSS]

I thought a picture with the paint removed was posted and it looked pretty good. Based on that picture I assume someone here bought this rear. Is that assumption correct. As far as not removing the paint, most people are lazy.


Jason

[ANDY M]

Mike, is that second picture of the 0519 from my car? It looks just like the picture I keep in the car.
Andy

[m22mike]

Andy
I have know idea. I copy stuff like the BE axle shots that are posted on eBay or boards for reference. Did you ever post your,s ?

Mike

[CanCOPO]

And then it could simply be a Brian Williams incident...I misremembered

[ANDY M]

Mike, I know that I posted that picture here, but it must have been about 10 or 11 years ago. Hard to believe that I have been hanging out here for that long. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/youguysrock.gif
I know I have it on a disk somewhere. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif

[PeteLeathersac]

You and others posted BE parts pics in this below linked thread back in '04 Andy,
Not all, but most attached pics are still working Ok.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/76440/1
<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif
~ Pete

[talwell]

I have a BE stamped rear that I bought several years ago. The man I purchased from had a great collection of cars, parts and some quite rare stuff. Story was that he had purchased about 15 years prior at Englishtown swap meet from someone that pulled it out of a car (possibly a nova) and had no idea about it.

The date stamp on it is 0524 - I asked a few people about it, sent the stamp to a few people and had mixed reviews. I can try to locate the picture again.

My question - is 0524 a known production date?

[PeteLeathersac]

Here's the BE picture you posted a few years ago Todd.
What internal parts were included w/ it?
<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif
~ Pete

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/02/full-2506-21231-image.jpg

[talwell]

The internals are all wrong. 5:19 or something like that in it. All the shackles and ears are on the tubes and looks never modified but I was always suspect of it because I didnt think it was a known date and the internals were not there.

[ANDY M]

Well, I think we have a match.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/02/full-1623-21301-be.jpg

I took this in 2004 when I had the rear axle rebuilt. Saved in a backup disk.

[the427king]

My first impression was that someone ball peened in the original letter and stamped an E in the craters.[I was the first person to get a photo of the rear which is posted here] After seeing close ups of this wo paint,that isnt the case at all. I have a April BE with similar divits that really arent that deep and in the same location.Some of the letter E is in a smooth area of the tube. Add to the assumption that someone would find an original 519 dated rear which is a known copo date[and that they would know that] ,stamp an E in it[that is assuming they could find a 519 dated non BE copo rear]. Put the rear in a 3000.00 nova and sell it. And for good measure,find a 3500.00 posi unit dated correctly for the rear[and similar to the match of other 519 known copo housing combinations ] and then give it away in a 71 nova .While this is a 427 enthusiast site Id bet only a handful here would even know the difference on the posi units from standard units, let alone someone out there forging a rear . Highly unlikely. The eaton posi E stamp is irrelevant as far as location,I have seen rears with it stamped on the opposite tube,or 6 inches away from where it normally is. If this was a 373 posi,there wouldnt be any question whatsoever. I have seen pics of this rear that dont look anything like the first pic posted of it. Same enlarged rounded ends on all long tails of the Es While someone would be &quot;pouring acid on it in thier laboratory&quot; to use in it thier nova ,they could have unbolted the posi unit and swapped it out and sold the posi unit for more than the BE rear,posi unit , and the car combined. .....I stand corrected.

[camaromb]

My point exactly, no one goes to that much trouble to give away $$$. The seller had no idea it had the correct posi unit until I talked to him, almost impossible to find with the correct date.

[the427king]

If you look at this picture a member posted earlier in the thread,it also has the same&quot;scoop&quot; marks on it that arent hammer marks ,and oddly the large one on top looks very similar to the impressions the exhaust system makes when hitting the axle tube. I have seen rears with the letter removed completely from interference with the exhaust system over axle pipe over time sometimes due to an exhaust hanger/suspension issue.

[DW31S]

So WHO bought it?