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PapaSmurf
02-24-2015, 02:48 AM
Good evening all.
Looking for some advice on the value of a restored 1968 Camaro RS/SS. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif
Doesn't have it's original drivetrain but has a date correct MQ block, a date correct M20 &amp; a correct PF code 3:31 post rear end.
Any &amp; all opinions welcome &amp; appreciated.
Thanks

cook_dw
02-24-2015, 12:37 PM
Need pictures of the restoration to be able to give a decent opinion. Does it have paperwork? Its going to be hard to put a price on something like this without more info.

PapaSmurf
02-24-2015, 03:46 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cook_dw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Need pictures of the restoration to be able to give a decent opinion. Does it have paperwork? Its going to be hard to put a price on something like this without more info. </div></div>
Darrell
I know it's tough to put a precise value on a car without seeing it but I'm looking for a realistic range of prices. I have the opportunity to buy this car unrestored (it's pretty rough) but I'm trying to figure out whether it makes sense financially to buy it &amp; restore. It does have GM Canada documentation.
Thanks

cook_dw
02-24-2015, 04:46 PM
What options did it have?

At this point I would guess 50-60K of course that depends on several things though. Restoration quality, options, desirable color..

P.J.
02-26-2015, 08:49 PM
I restored my 68 and it cost me over 100 ,all orig and NOS dated parts.
The question to ask yourself is what level do you want to restore it too.
Then compare the total cost of the restoration to the price of buying one that has already been restored and documented like the one you want to buy.
3 years ago one sold in Canada for 90 s with documents and real nice resto
I don't know the current going price for a 68.

PJ



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cook_dw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What options did it have?

At this point I would guess 50-60K of course that depends on several things though. Restoration quality, options, desirable color.. </div></div>

COPO
02-28-2015, 04:21 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any &amp; all opinions welcome &amp; appreciated.
Thanks</div></div>


You likely know most of this, but it is extremely unlikely you will make any money by restoring a non supercar even if you started with a free car. Parts and materials alone can turn out to be more than a finished car is worth even with no charge for labor. Once you add labor cost (your time or someone you pay) you will likely spend at least twice what an already restored car costs to purchase. Even when restoring supercars it is very easy to get upside down as parts, labor, and materials add up very fast.

I think most who go down the full restoration path do it for the love of the car / hobby, prestige, ego, other reasons as there is rarely if ever a financial gain at the end. When you take into account time value of money, or lost opportunity cost, then you would virtually always be at a financial loss regardless of the car except for very rare exceptions like ZL-1's, 71 hemi Cuda convertibles, or vintage Ferraris where the values are so high a smaller appreciation can cover the resto costs, but even with these exceptions, it is all about hitting the market timing right. The vast majority of vintage car appreciation can not even come close to what someone might get for investing the same money in a low fee S&amp;P 500 index fund the past 5 years.

If you're doing a quickie re-spray with inferior or repo parts, (lipstick on a pig) then that's another story, but a full concourse frame-off resto is a very expensive proposition. I seem to recall a board member recently that had a RA IV GTO with fresh concours resto and I don't know if it ever sold, but after running through an auction and being for sale for awhile, I think the market valued the car at about 50% of what he had in it.

Bottom line, unless you really love this car, have a trove of rare parts bought 30 years ago, and you have lots of free time, or buddies in the business that will work for beer, or just have unlimited cash, I seriously doubt you will break even on a restoration of a 68 L-78 Camaro documented or not.

With all of that said, sounds like a neat documented car and would be great to save it, but forget making money if you restore it. If you're looking to make a few bucks off a full resto, there is just no rational financial case here. if you are looking to make a buck, then flipping is the way to go. Buy it, invest nothing except a little clean up and selling it on quickly for more than you paid.

Before someone jumps on me, I have owned and still own some rare and desirable muscle cars of the era (2 Yenkos, 5 BM cars, and others) and personally know how much time and money it takes to restore a car properly. It is just not a money making venture except in extremely rare situations. I grew up in high school with these cars and just have a love for them, but they sure don't form any part of my investment or retirement portfolio. My last car purchase was a fully concourse restored one and I probably saved at least 50% versus buying a rough project and having the car done.

Free advice.............now go out and buy that car and get it done, it will be a mostly fun journey, but an expensive one.

chevelleheart
03-01-2015, 01:43 AM
COPO , Pooh-Bah ,....you said that very well ! You are not being You are 100 % correct , that most guys even if you get the car for free, or can do most of the work yourself ,you will most likely end up under water ! Unless its a super rare car, and Documented,.... COPO, LS6 , Yenko , Baldwin or Z16 Chevelle, and even then you will likely only break even.....

L78Kiwi
03-06-2015, 06:08 PM
I am restoring a 67 RS/SS L78, so I am well acquainted with the cost of restoration. When I say restoration I mean down to every last nut, bolt and split pin. To compound this cost I have to contend with international exchange rates and freight charges and then local tax. This means multiplying the cost of parts by 2 (at least). I can therefore definitely say that it is a labor of love......and frustration.
By the way does anybody know where I can get a OL code 4 core Harrison manual radiator.....apart from Heartbeat City Camaro?

luzl78
03-06-2015, 07:45 PM
Gavin, what is the build date of your car? Jeff

mockingbird812
03-06-2015, 08:16 PM
More importantly Gavin. Show us some shots (we love in-process photos <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif) of your cool '67!!! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

L78Kiwi
03-06-2015, 09:18 PM
Hi Jeff, Build date is May 67. Just to save you deciphering the id plate. Its Capri Cream, 4 spd, bench seat, 4.56/1 (factory option ordered not dealer offered , as you will know) rear end and California built. It has had 3 owners not including me and has been off the road since 1970. I am at the stage of putting the drive train back together. I have the original diff and a correct date coded gear box....motor long gone using a CE 427 69....The radiator is holding me up. I plan to change the rear end ratio to 3.7/1. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/03/full-19248-22408-img_0199.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/03/full-19248-22409-indification_plate_2.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/03/full-19248-22410-camaro_in_la_05_mk3.jpg

mockingbird812
03-07-2015, 02:07 AM
Thanks Gavin. Great project. Keep us posted.

spr
03-09-2015, 02:32 PM
here is a photo of the car

http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t426/6t7camaro/915B7D04-D58A-4EFE-AF74-EC47BCCA22DC-3219-00000147587A3E3A_zps533f814e.jpg (http://s1059.photobucket.com/user/6t7camaro/media/915B7D04-D58A-4EFE-AF74-EC47BCCA22DC-3219-00000147587A3E3A_zps533f814e.jpg.html)

spr
03-09-2015, 02:33 PM
http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t426/6t7camaro/F1363383-1EC9-4698-9E00-A64E2E89A61C-3219-000001474921000A_zps1b23e348.jpg (http://s1059.photobucket.com/user/6t7camaro/media/F1363383-1EC9-4698-9E00-A64E2E89A61C-3219-000001474921000A_zps1b23e348.jpg.html)

spr
03-09-2015, 02:35 PM
http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t426/6t7camaro/46CFDCEE-CECD-4A8C-8DAC-F1CEEDA11A57-1551-000000B0B0474591_zps30bc904b.jpg (http://s1059.photobucket.com/user/6t7camaro/media/46CFDCEE-CECD-4A8C-8DAC-F1CEEDA11A57-1551-000000B0B0474591_zps30bc904b.jpg.html)

mockingbird812
03-09-2015, 02:52 PM
Gavin - Nice options, nice color combo. She's gonna look Purdy! Where is the call out for factory 4.56?

L78Kiwi
03-09-2015, 06:56 PM
It's on the protecto plate. The diff is also stamped with the vin and ratio. The photos of the above 68 remind me of my 67....although the condition was a little better, but then again this looks more complete. What ever the case it looks like this will give somebody many hobby hours of enjoyment.
Strange, the steering wheel shown is exactly the same as the one that was on my car when I received it. These must have been a very common after market addition to these cars.

luzl78
03-09-2015, 07:54 PM
I've never seen the rearend stamped with the vin number?

luzl78
03-09-2015, 07:57 PM
If you're not gonna drive it that much I would leave the 4:56 although with the m20 2:52 first gear you're gonna leap the front wheels off the ground.

L78Kiwi
03-09-2015, 09:32 PM
Woops I think you are confused between the 2 cars shown in the photos above. My 67 has an M21 not an M20.

As for the VIN code stamped on the diff, yes its odd. But the original owner explained he had to waited 3 months for the car due to 4.56 gears being a special factory order. So I assume this is why the diff casing was stamped.
I do plan to drive the car and so in order to reduce wear and tear I will change the gears to 3.70....not to mention other practicalities. I have the original 4.56 gears but they need replacing anyway.

169indy
03-10-2015, 03:24 AM
IS this the Hulk?
http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/4904682869.html

PapaSmurf
03-10-2015, 03:15 PM
YUP!

cook_dw
03-10-2015, 04:12 PM
So did you buy the car?

PapaSmurf
03-10-2015, 04:47 PM
Nope. Decided to pass. The non-original power-train was the biggest deciding factor for me.

cook_dw
03-10-2015, 11:36 PM
Someones gotta save this gem!!! If anyone wants to give me the money Ill restore it.. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

Kurt S
03-11-2015, 01:03 AM
Gavin (67 L78),
I'm real curious to see a pic of that axle stamp and the axle VIN.
Interesting - several NOR cars with 4.56, but not many LOS cars.
Bench seat, nice!

L78Kiwi
03-11-2015, 05:37 PM
Sure. The casing is in being blasted today so I'll get a shot within the next day or so

luzl78
03-11-2015, 06:54 PM
Make sure they don't blast the codes and numbers!

L78Kiwi
03-15-2015, 06:13 AM
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/03/full-19248-22982-g4_038.jpg
This code also appears on the protecto plate....not sure if it is the VIN?

L72copocamaro
03-15-2015, 06:50 AM
Axle code, date and plant shift, not the vin.

L78Kiwi
03-15-2015, 07:33 AM
Helpful, thanks. Can you please decode this for me ?

Xplantdad
03-15-2015, 10:25 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: L78Kiwi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Helpful, thanks. Can you please decode this for me ? </div></div>



<ul style="list-style-type: disc"> Code-<span style="font-weight: bold">QB</span> Ratio-4:56 Size-12 Type-P Brake-STD [/list] (4:56 12 bolt posi with standard brakes)

Manufactured on April 24 <span style="font-weight: bold">(0424)</span> by Detroit Gear and Axle <span style="font-weight: bold">(G)</span> on the first shift <span style="font-weight: bold">(1)</span>

scuncio
03-15-2015, 09:09 PM
Killer axle option, not exactly a grocery getter....

L78Kiwi
03-15-2015, 09:44 PM
Thanks for that. Was this normal practice to individually stamp the diff in this way?

I don't think the local Super market would appreciate tyre smoke and black marks in their car park!

cook_dw
03-15-2015, 09:45 PM
What were the brackets on the top of the tubes for? Ladder bars?

L78Kiwi
03-16-2015, 08:24 AM
Yes, I removed those.....carefully

firstgenaddict
03-17-2015, 12:58 AM
My 68 HO GTO is the same colors...
Code D (Alpine Blue) over Parchment. Love the Blues with White/parchment interiors

PapaSmurf
03-25-2015, 02:43 AM
The 68 Camaro RS/SS I was looking at before has resurfaced on eBay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/-/111625912218

Seems to be getting a lot of bidding action.
Hopefully they have had a good look at the pictures especially the roof.
Caveat emptor

PeteLeathersac
03-25-2015, 03:33 AM
Sorry to hijack but the non original engine w/ the eBay deal appears to be from an existing car VIN 124378N413883 mentioned back in this old thread...
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&amp;Number=8198
Whether this John Rego fella or whoever has the car now can make a deal to get the engine or not, they need to be aware of this auction and thread being the MQ suffix and Vin stampings if original show that car was originally an L78 4-Spd!
<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif
~ Pete


Subject eBay Vehicle VIN - 124378N408506

MQ Suffix eBay Engine VIN - 124378N413883



http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/03/full-2506-23375-image.jpg

iluv69s
03-25-2015, 10:23 AM
Dam..Ill bet he would like to see this thread now.... his car is an L-78 !!

cook_dw
03-25-2015, 12:43 PM
Wow.. The power of the internet.. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

PapaSmurf
03-25-2015, 02:46 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: iluv69s</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dam..Ill bet he would like to see this thread now.... his car is an L-78 !!</div></div>
Sent John Rego a PM but not sure he will get it since he hasn't posted anything on the forum since 2002.

cook_dw
03-25-2015, 02:51 PM
I tried emailing him but it kicked back as a bad email address.

PapaSmurf
03-25-2015, 03:07 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cook_dw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I tried emailing him but it kicked back as a bad email address.</div></div>
Thanks Darrell
I got the same thing &amp; there are a number of John Regos in New Jersey.

PeteLeathersac
03-25-2015, 03:41 PM
Looks like this may be the correct lad below?
If emails are all no go, maybe someone closer could try calling him.
<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif
~ Pete



===================

John Rego
270 Jeffrey St.
Long Branch, NJ 07740
732-222-877

-------

Phoenix Paintworks
196 Westwood Ave
Long Branch, NJ 07740
732-263-0360

Owner - John Rego

===================

cook_dw
03-25-2015, 03:52 PM
The Phonenix Paintworks number is no longer in service.

I called the other number and left a message. Hopefully he calls back or finds his way back to the forum.

cook_dw
03-25-2015, 11:03 PM
Just got off the phone with John. Really nice guy. Gave him the info and he is going to give it a try to get the engine back for his car. Hopefully he'll post up here and share what he finds out.

PapaSmurf
03-25-2015, 11:11 PM
Good news Darrell!
Not sure if he's involved in the sale on eBay but a forum member was involved in the sale on Craigslist &amp; Kijiji. I believe he wasn't the owner only the broker for the sale. I sent him a PM on March 17 asking about the car but didn't hear back from him.
His name is Pat &amp; he goes by spr on this site.

cook_dw
03-26-2015, 01:02 AM
If you can get his contact info I will pass it along to John. What sucks is it looks like this car is gonna sell in a little over a day; no reserve. Hopefully we can keep track of the car and block.

PeteLeathersac
03-26-2015, 12:49 PM
If he's flush enough and act's quickly, it may be best buy the works and swap engines also other parts then sell the eBay car off again later?
Be in contact w/ the seller in case things makes sense to pull the auction but even if the car sells to someone else, there may be a chance w/ them too.
Either way the L78 extra value this car has now was all free!
Best save/file pics and look for similar build stampings to compare...note engine stamp unique deep O also two style 4's plus a wide M and perfect Q tail etc.
Good luck John!
<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif
~ Pete



http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/03/full-2506-23375-image.jpg

cook_dw
03-26-2015, 01:27 PM
The MQ is exactly like my 68s. Different 4 in the vin portion though.

PapaSmurf
03-26-2015, 05:51 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PeteLeathersac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If he's flush enough and act's quickly, it may be best buy the works and swap engines also other parts then sell the eBay car off again later?
Be in contact w/ the seller in case things makes sense to pull the auction but even if the car sells to someone else, there may be a chance w/ them too.
Either way the L78 extra value this car has now was all free!
Best save/file pics and look for similar build stampings to compare...note engine stamp unique deep O also two style 4's plus a wide M and perfect Q tail etc.
Good luck John!
<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif
~ Pete
</div></div>
The following has been posted by the seller on eBay. Hopefully it will result in the block returning to its original place.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/use...5_03_26_at_11.4 (http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/03/full-18955-23444-screen_shot_2015_03_26_at_11.4)

spr
03-28-2015, 09:17 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cook_dw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just got off the phone with John. Really nice guy. Gave him the info and he is going to give it a try to get the engine back for his car. Hopefully he'll post up here and share what he finds out. </div></div>

awesome! I really hope his car is reunited with the original block. Im not sure when, but I know the block was bought on ebay a number of years ago.

Kurt S
03-29-2015, 02:03 AM
IIRC, it was 2008.

PeteLeathersac
03-29-2015, 09:57 PM
Sold @ US$ 13,900.00
03/26/15 - eBay Item # 111625912218
Item location: Kelowna, British Columbia, Canada
eBay Vehicle '68 Camaro Coupe - VIN - 124378N408506
eBay deal includes loose T0404MQ Suffix Engine VIN - 124378N413883

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif
~ Pete

Bigjohn396
06-27-2015, 07:47 PM
Just got the block fri. Look's to be in great condition .thank's to all who helped get in touch to find me.124378n413883 I had those number's in my head for years thank's again.http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/06/full-19296-28291-image.jpg

PeteLeathersac
06-27-2015, 08:39 PM
Magic news John and it's so great everything came together for you!
Love to see/hear more about it but first, BIG congrats having an original engine L78 car!
<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif
~ Pete
<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/3gears.gif

PapaSmurf
06-27-2015, 10:04 PM
Great News John!
Any idea where the car that was in the deal ended up?

Bigjohn396
06-27-2015, 11:02 PM
Biloxi ms

scuncio
06-27-2015, 11:16 PM
Awesome. Congratulations!!!

cook_dw
06-28-2015, 01:43 AM
Congrats buddy.!!.. Glad everything worked out..

300deluxeL79
06-29-2015, 12:37 AM
amazing! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif