Well, the Chevelle is D.O.A.....

[VintageMusclecar]

Dead on it's axles. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/bs.gif

I've been trying to isolate a driveline vibration since I got the car on the road.

I just found it...the hard way. Thank God it happened in the garage while the car was up on jack stands.

Damage report:

Driveshaft: now a 2 piece.

Exhaust system: waylayed.

Transmission: Schrapnel all under the car if that tells you anything.

Pics and video to come shortly.

I have just about had enough...I feel like I'm gonna puke.

[Alss]

oooof <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/frown.gif

[earntaz]

Hang in there Eric -- that's why we put destruct systems on missiles ... something is bound to go haywire.

[bbbentley]

Good thing you were not under there inspecting things when it let go! Ouch!

[VintageMusclecar]

I had the car up in the air today to swap out the existing 3&quot; driveshaft for another (oem) 3 1/2&quot; unit I picked up from a friend. The OEM unit was the exact same length as the existing one which I had built locally for the car years ago, and I was pretty sure the existing 3&quot; unit was going beyond it's critical speed limit. Although the charts said it should've been good for ~4700 rpm, I never got it that far. The highest I've had it up to was just over 4000 in 4th gear.

http://www.markwilliams.com/Images/critspeed.jpg

The OEM shaft didn't appear to make any appreciable difference in the vibration levels--as soon as it got to ~4000 it started to vibrate.

I reinstalled the 3&quot; shaft and decided to video the rear tires to see if I had a wobbly rim or an out-of-round tire.

Here's the first video:

http://vid33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/MISC/001_zpsl8qdnrez.mp4

The second video of the drivers side was too dark, so I re-shot it. As soon as the tach hit 4000 in 4th, all hell broke loose.

http://vid33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/MISC/003_zps73g92xhw.mp4

Part of the aftermath:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/MISC/001B_zps8jwpt5pc.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/VMCP777/media/MISC/001B_zps8jwpt5pc.jpg.html)

I am within a whisker of throwing in the towel at this point. I have fought tooth and nail to get this car de-bugged, and as soon as one issue was resolved another came up. I now have a <span style="font-weight: bold">VERY</span> expensive hunk of garage art sitting on jackstands with a wasted trans, a wasted exhaust system from the X pipe to the mufflers, and who knows if the rear end got hurt, I haven't checked that yet. The floor took a hell of a beating as well, but again I haven't mustered the courage to crawl back under the car again and assess the severity of the damage.

And to top it all off, I'd just made phone calls today to inquire about having a new driveshaft made for the car. Due to the length (60&quot; center-to-center) everyone said either 4&quot; aluminum--which there wasn't room for under the car, or 3 1/2&quot; carbon fiber--to the tune of well over $1K. There's no way I could swing that right now, while desperately trying to get my father's old house into marketable condition which is quickly bleeding me out.

Sure wish I would've video taped the driveshaft first--I was going to video it right after the drivers side rear tire.

Somebody please wake me up, this has to be a bad dream.....

[luzl78]

I call for a collection to help out a fellow car lover. I put up the first $100.

[Lynn]

Going back to square one sucks.
Here is hoping the rest of the damage is minimal.
Last year, after spending the winter building a weird combo turbocharged engine for my old Bimmer, I installed the engine, and got it running. The freeze plug right over the turbo was leaking. Can't pull the turbo (aftermarket manifold and turbo) without pulling the head..... well, you get the picture.

Thankfully, neither you nor anyone else was hurt. Can you imagine if this happened while going down the road?

Wish I was in your neighborhood Eric. Seriously, I would come over and help.

[Lynn]

Great idea.
Just sent a paypal payment to:

[email protected]

It is a gift, so don't you dare declare it as income Eric.

[VintageMusclecar]

I don't know what to do or say here...this is very awkward...

[luzl78]

Don't worry about it,Eric. I have never met you but ever since I first joined the site you've always seemed to go out of your way to help people with advice, so this is good karma. People help each other...just the way it should be. My paypal is coming tomorrow. Get your ride back cruising.

[Lynn]

You say thank you and move on. No need for any awkwardness.

I had some very close friends (H&amp;W) back in the 70's who were in the ministry. I would offer to buy their lunch from time to time. They always declined. One day I told them: &quot;you know, I think the only thing that would keep you from accepting a gift from me is your pride&quot; Wife said: &quot;After further thought, we graciously accept. Thank you.&quot;

We all need help from time to time, in many different ways.

[SuperNovaSS]

I'm very sorry to see this Eric. I'm still a bit confused what caused this. Was the driveshaft simply out if balance? It seems like the driveshaft had very little load on it other than the high rpm since it was off the ground. Thank goodness the driveshaft didn't pop the car off the stands.

Jason

[Charley Lillard]

OMG...I sent a donation. You all have to watch the video. It spits the driveshaft and Eric simply says &quot;Found it&quot;. That sucks but I got a good chuckle out of that. I guess you found the vibration.

[Charley Lillard]

Just watched it again and I am still laughing at your comment..... sorry for your plight but you did make it funny.

[VintageMusclecar]

The diameter of the shaft was the issue. The 3&quot; shaft went past it's &quot;critical speed&quot; which is the point where the shaft begins to &quot;jump rope&quot; in the middle. What threw me off was I was experiencing vibration several hundred rpm lower than the critical speed chart says it should've been.

Since there isn't room for a 3 1/2&quot;+ steel or aluminum shaft, I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and go carbon fiber.

It's that or put everything back to stock, sell the car and go from there.

[VintageMusclecar]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just watched it again and I am still laughing at your comment..... sorry for your plight but you did make it funny. </div></div>

A form of gallows humor, as it were.

[Charley Lillard]

So you are saying another 1/4&quot; won't fit ?

[VintageMusclecar]

And thank you.

[VintageMusclecar]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So you are saying another 1/4&quot; won't fit ? </div></div>

Nope. Due to the big oil pan I had to raise the engine up on the mounts which screwed up the driveline angles (which I had resolved to within 1/2° of perfect) which required jacking up the back of the trans to compensate--goodbye tunnel clearance. I could barely get my fingers between the pinion yoke and the trans tunnel.

3 1/2&quot; <span style="font-style: italic">maybe</span> if I dropped the trans down some again, larger, no way.

[SS427]

Very sorry to hear of this Eric but your calm &quot;Found it&quot; comment as you step out of the car will now be forever locked into the good humor history.

Just a quick story about accepting money or help from others and from their viewpoint instead of yours. Over many years while I was getting my business and the LS6 Registry in full swing I had a very good friend (most of us knew him) try to send me money on several occasions to help me get going. I turned him down EVERY time due in part to pride (just like you Eric). He even invited me and Annie to a charity he was putting on where we graciously attended. Once we arrived he tried again to supply us with pick up service from the airport, a luxury vehicle and a very expensive room at a posh hotel. Again I graciously declined but it did not stop. Fast forward to his untimely death. I mistakenly had the misfortune of telling one of his closest friends of his passing expecting that he obviously would have already known. He did not! Days later in conversation with this mutual friend he informed me that I had really hurt this person's feelings several times by not accepting his help when it was offered. He reminded me of how much money this person had and the ONE thing in life that made him very happy (other than his family) was when he was able to help other people he felt he could help. I took that away from him. Because of this unfortunate event I now politely decline the first time and then accept and thank the giver very much for their help.

Moral of the story Eric, let people help when they offer. It is what THEY want to do and it makes THEM happy and does NOT make you any less of a person.

[Crossbreed383]

A donation has been sent to your paypal Eric
The way i see it everyone needs some help now and then.
Thank God no one was hurt ,and as I told you on the phone, metal is fixable,skin not always so much
Besides,i'd just be spending it on a car part anyhow,lol!
And dont ever give up,these trials make it worth even more in the end even if it doesnt seem so now
If it were easy everyone would be doing it
Nick in CO

[VintageMusclecar]

Thank you guys. While this is incredibly awkward for me, my gratitude is sincere.

Eric

[427TJ]

Don't you dare sell the Chevelle over this. Ask Kwhizz about getting a car right!

Donation sent.

[VintageMusclecar]

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/MISC/002_zpssrh8xb1f.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/VMCP777/media/MISC/002_zpssrh8xb1f.jpg.html)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/MISC/007_zpskycchdi5.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/VMCP777/media/MISC/007_zpskycchdi5.jpg.html)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/MISC/003_zpstpopypny.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/VMCP777/media/MISC/003_zpstpopypny.jpg.html)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/MISC/001_zpsjdx34rvx.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/VMCP777/media/MISC/001_zpsjdx34rvx.jpg.html)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/MISC/004_zps5rwjpwdr.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/VMCP777/media/MISC/004_zps5rwjpwdr.jpg.html)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/MISC/009_zpsutyevhi9.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/VMCP777/media/MISC/009_zpsutyevhi9.jpg.html)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/MISC/010_zpslwcldgaq.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/VMCP777/media/MISC/010_zpslwcldgaq.jpg.html)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/MISC/011_zpsbuwmo4vp.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/VMCP777/media/MISC/011_zpsbuwmo4vp.jpg.html)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/MISC/008_zps8yrj1g69.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/VMCP777/media/MISC/008_zps8yrj1g69.jpg.html)

There's more damage on the driver's side but I didn't feel like crawling under the car again.

It even blew the shifter apart.

Aside from the damage to the car, the part that sickens me most is that this trans was one built for me by a friend who's since passed away.

Once I find the motivation to pull the remnants from the car, I'll get the box apart and see if anything can be salvaged. Thankfully I have a friend who's handy with Muncies.

[MosportGreen66]

Eric, so sorry to see this.

Is there any recourse with the drive shaft company? It seems to me like it was never right...

Dan

[scuncio]

Whew, buddy. I feel for you. The Muncie aside, it could have been a lot worse.

[TDW]

Eric, I don't know you personally, however from what I've read here you are a stand-up guy, so I don't feel the least bit uncomfortable with this. I have a rebuilt M20 sitting in the shop here. I bought it from Sammy here on the site a few years ago as a spare. I will loan this trans to you for as long as you need it. If I were a rich man, I'd just give it to you, but alas, I aint. If you want it, I will get it to you.

[VintageMusclecar]

Dan;

More than doubtful. It was built ~8 years ago, and despite the fact that it doesn't even have 100 miles on it, I'm sure they wouldn't stand behind it.

Tony N.;

Agreed, and I am grateful no one got hurt.

Tony W.;

That is insanely generous and I am very grateful for your offer, but I wouldn't want to take the chance that something might happen to it while in my possession. That aside, I'm not even sure if I'm going back to a Muncie based trans at this point.

[VintageMusclecar]

In lieu of donations, if anyone's looking for a carb, I've got some GREAT deals listed in the classified section (http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/611777/huge-carb-sale-looking-for-a-d#Post611777).

[kwhizz]

She left her purse out......and everyone knows I'm not responsible for my actions.......Donation sent.......

Ken

[Postsedan]

I had a similar thing happen to me....I also broke the drive shaft in two pieces. My problem was a faulty u-joint.

It can all be repaired....luckily no one got hurt.

Dan

[Charley Lillard]

And please stop doing that up on jackstands. Bad things can happen like slam on the brakes and have inertia throw the car off the stands etc.

[allcamaro]

I was went back to the first video a few times, listen closely as the wheel speed slows down, something just does not sound right in the rear, I would look their first. My 2 cents...

Joel

[markjohnson]

I've seen where a bad (cracked) transmission tailshaft caused a similar disaster to this. Fella knew it was cracked but just figured he could live with the small drip leak and everything would be fine. Unfortunately, there's nothing left of Eric's to analyze but I do see the bushing from it slid down on the front yoke. One other thing that comes to mind is if that 12 bolt still has a crush sleeve in it or not. If the front pinion seal ever needed changed (or the pinion yoke was ever replaced/upgraded) and the proper torque/crush was not put back on that pinion nut, bad things can happen. Just throwing these out there as food for thought, Eric. We all know you're a pretty handy guy!

[Kurt S]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VintageMusclecar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nope. Due to the big oil pan I had to raise the engine up on the mounts ... </div></div>
Why run that pan? Seems like there should be some other pan options that keep the driveline angles correct. Cheaper than the fancy driveshaft!
Then again, what do I know about Chevelle engine space - nothing... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

[VintageMusclecar]

Joel;

I haven't pulled the cover yet, but the rear end turned fine w/o any tight spots, binding, etc. yesterday while I was removing the broken rear section of the driveshaft. I will pull the cover and verify things before putting the car back together.

Mark;

The trans was fresh and the yoke slid in with ease. There weren't any signs of damage there that I'm aware of.

The rear end was built with a solid pinion spacer. I'll only use a crush sleeve on a stock build.

Kurt;

The pan is a deep sump design which resolved a serious oil control issue, plus it was worth over 25 HP on the dyno over another &quot;race&quot; oil pan.

At this point I've narrowed my options down to the following:

1) Repair and put the Muncie based trans back in and figure out how to get a 4&quot; drive shaft under the car. This means some sort of trans tunnel surgery, but what the hell at this point, right?--the old shaft just started the process for me.

2) Find a suitable manual trans that has a longer tail section which by default reduces the length of the driveshaft which in turn reduces the critical speed issue and allows the use of a smaller diameter driveshaft.

3) For the time being, put a long tail shaft 400 Turbo in the car. The long shaft 400 is 9.5&quot; longer than the short shaft version which takes the driveshaft from 60&quot; down to 51.5&quot;. That would move the pinion yoke back far enough to make room for the use of a 3.5&quot; mild steel shaft which has a critical speed limit of 7418 rpm @ 52&quot; or a CM shaft which is good to just over 7500.

I need to get the busted box out and see what I have left to work with and go from there....but as much as I hate to say it, the 400 Turbo is looking like a pretty attractive solution at this point.

[crash]

1965-68 Pontiac full-size Muncie is 6&quot; longer than the standard Muncie(and I know where some are)...

I've seen this kind of explosion, check the insides of that Muncie real good... Crash

[VintageMusclecar]

I was looking at those last night on eBay--it appears the trans mount pad is moved back quite a ways on the Pontiac tail housings, not sure if I can move my crossmember back that far? Also not sure about the shifter location.

MAN this stuff sure seemed a lot easier 30 years ago...

[jannes_z-28]

This is bad :-(

Are you sure all the angles are OK? It's not like your Chevelle is extended to be a limo so a standard driveshaft should cope with your setup. I don't see any need for a 4&quot; expensive driveshaft.

I suspect some kind of binding in the joints causing this.

Don't give up, just fix it so you can enjoy it!!

Jan

[VintageMusclecar]

Driveline angles were within 1/2° of perfect--I had to raise the back of the trans quite a bit to achieve this, which is why there was no room for a larger diameter driveshaft.

The driveshaft and u-joints was built new for the car in ~2006/2007 and had less than 100 miles on it.

[napa68]

A little donation for someone who has helped me through PM's and entertained me with awesome posts about projects. And.......................built me some pretty nice carbs!

[VintageMusclecar]

I don't know what to say, other than &quot;thank you&quot;.

[napa68]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VintageMusclecar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know what to say, other than &quot;thank you&quot;. </div></div> <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

[Tommy]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VintageMusclecar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/MISC/002_zpssrh8xb1f.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/VMCP777/media/MISC/002_zpssrh8xb1f.jpg.html)
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/MISC/001_zpsjdx34rvx.jpg[/URL] </div></div>


Battle scars should be left permanently in my humble opinion. I left the damage unfixed under mine from a Differential explosion. Lakewood Driveshaft loop might be in order Eric. Sorry about the setback, you'll get it back on the road soon and have a blast in it.

Tommy

[Jim Ferron]

Eric, sorry to see your busted up stuff. Be happy you weren't on the street when that happened. You know I have a twin to your car right? Mine has the OEM 283 shaft in it [whatever that is] with the L-88 and I run 11:90's [ten years] with it with no problem. And I'm sure the staging lanes are FULL of cars like ours with junk drive shafts running week after week with no issue. The vibration I think was telling you something wasn't right, something was flopping around. Perhaps the shaft already had a 'whip' [or was way out of balance] in it that just exaggerated it self at speed. Or I see you car sits pretty low in the back...maybe too low, maybe the rear pinion angle is off...I'll bet a good stock shaft would be fine....

[VintageMusclecar]

One thing's for damn sure...

When I break something, I <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="text-decoration: underline">really</span></span></span> break it. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/MISC/021_zpsfliao0n4.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/VMCP777/media/MISC/021_zpsfliao0n4.jpg.html)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/MISC/022_zpse3u832mt.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/VMCP777/media/MISC/022_zpse3u832mt.jpg.html)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/MISC/023_zpsr743yn59.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/VMCP777/media/MISC/023_zpsr743yn59.jpg.html)

I think the car's on the verge of earning a new nickname:

&quot;Scrapmetal&quot; <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/no.gif

The Quicktime bellhousing is junk too. The one ear on the case that managed to hang on (lower pass. side) bent that mounting tab on the bellhousing.

It's going to be a loooong road back at this rate.

Jim;

I have seen your EE car, I commented on it before re: how much I liked it. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

I'm at a loss on this driveshaft issue other than to conclude that the shaft was just a P.O.S. from the get-go.

My old `67 Chevelle (the one I had before this one) ran 11's on nuts and 10's on the hose with a mild &quot;wanna-be&quot; LS6, 400 Turbo and 4.10 gears. I used a stock driveshaft in it and never had a single problem with it either.

As far as driveline angles go, I am 100% positive they were right--to within 1/2° of perfect as was concurred by two driveshaft shops I'd consulted with just before this shaft let go.

I've no choice at this point to chalk this up to &quot;sh*t happens&quot;.

[markjohnson]

Wow. That is carnage of biblical proportions. Old Testament stuff and the first Autogear case I've ever seen broken.

[kwhizz]

Put a Turbo 400 in it so you can still drive it this year........... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/worship.gif

[VintageMusclecar]

That's a very strong possibility at this point.

If I could somehow manage to unload some of these carbs I've got piling up around me I <span style="font-style: italic">might</span> be able to put a &quot;real&quot; stick trans back in.

[kwhizz]

Better yet........Send it over here and we'll LSA it.........LOL.....and you can have it back in two weeks......

[VintageMusclecar]

Thanks, but no. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/wink.gif

[MosportGreen66]

Leave it a stick...

[napa68]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MosportGreen66</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Leave it a stick... </div></div>

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Verne_Frantz]

Eric, I'm not sure I understand how a new lightweight hi-perf driveshaft is only rated for 4000rpm. I'm sure I&quot;m missing something.

That is terrible carnage. I never would have imagined that failure would have torn the trans off the bell!

Verne <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif

[VintageMusclecar]

I want to keep a stick in it if at all possible, but after this incident, whatever goes back in the car will be as bullet-proof as I can afford to make it. I have a few manual trans options I'm considering, I'll just have to wait to see how things shake out over the next week or two.

I checked the Quicktime (now owned by Lakewood) website and it appears they do offer a repair &amp; re-certification service for their bellhousings, so hopefully I don't have to throw this one on the scrap pile along with the trans &amp; driveshaft.

Verne;

It wasn't a high performance drive shaft, it was a stock replacement unit.

Look over this chart, it explains everything. It all has to do with length, tube diameter and material:

(My driveshaft was 60&quot; and 3&quot; mild steel tube)

http://www.markwilliams.com/Images/critspeed.jpg

I have decided one thing for certain--even if it means cutting/altering the driveshaft tunnel, the car <span style="font-weight: bold">will</span> have a 4&quot; drive shaft in it this time.

This is about how I feel right now.

http://i.stack.imgur.com/Ie2uP.gif

[napa68]

I bought this for my Nova when I went back to a Muncie. Real nice piece and great people to deal with. A driveline vibration disappeared after this (not that my car does not have enough vibrations due to solid mounts)
This was $467 to my door in 2013. It is a 3.5&quot; by 54.75&quot;. The 3.5 inch is tight in the tunnel, but doable.

http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b437/napa68/001_zpse2f9a2d1.jpg (http://s1043.photobucket.com/user/napa68/media/001_zpse2f9a2d1.jpg.html)

[VintageMusclecar]

Aluminum?

[napa68]

Yes it is

[COPO]

Eric, really sorry to hear about the mishap. I had something similar happen to me going about 100 mph when the trans tailshaft grenaded. I'm all for more HP, but for only a 25 HP loss on a non competition car, I think it seems more practical to go back to the stock oil pan. LOTS of hipo engines running just fine with a stock pan and that eliminates the needs for expensive and custom driveshaft and all the other issues.

[VintageMusclecar]

It wasn't just 25 HP, it also resolved a serious windage issue which was causing oil pressure to drop rapidly above 5500 rpm. These 4.25&quot;+ stroke cranks open up a whole `nother can of worms when it comes to oil control.

I'm considering picking up another identical Milodon pan and reducing the front sump depth by ~1/2&quot; which would allow the engine to sit at OEM height.

[earntaz]

Tim -- you said ... This was $467 to my door in 2013. It is a 3.5&quot; by 54.75&quot;. The 3.5 inch is tight in the tunnel, but doable

You didn't indicate what year Nova -- but aren't Nova driveshafts normally about 51-51 inches? ... TAZ

[earntaz]

Sorry - should read 51-52 inches ...

[napa68]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: earntaz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tim -- you said ... This was $467 to my door in 2013. It is a 3.5&quot; by 54.75&quot;. The 3.5 inch is tight in the tunnel, but doable

You didn't indicate what year Nova -- but aren't Nova driveshafts normally about 51-51 inches? ... TAZ </div></div>

It is a 67. That should explain the difference. One other item to add, although I do not think it makes a big difference, I have a Ford 9&quot; in the car

Tim

[earntaz]

Thanks Tim -- that explains it. I had a 64 wagon with a 355 but I don't remember how long the DS was. How is everything in Waukesha these days? I am originally from the Shawano area and now in south Texas -- snow is a four-letter-word. LOL

TAZ

[napa68]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: earntaz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks Tim -- that explains it. I had a 64 wagon with a 355 but I don't remember how long the DS was. How is everything in Waukesha these days? I am originally from the Shawano area and now in south Texas -- snow is a four-letter-word. LOL

TAZ </div></div>

Here it is................May 10th...................55 degrees.....................drizzle............... ..feels like Memorial Day.

Besides that..............life is good! Took the Nova out for a good beating yesterday and now everything in the universe seems right! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/3gears.gif

[VintageMusclecar]

A suitable replacement transmission has been located and will be ordered tomorrow.

What it <span style="font-style: italic">isn't</span>:

<span style="text-decoration: line-through">Muncie</span>

<span style="text-decoration: line-through">B/W T10</span>

<span style="text-decoration: line-through">Richmond</span>

<span style="text-decoration: line-through">Gforce</span>

<span style="text-decoration: line-through">Liberty</span>

What it <span style="font-style: italic">is</span>:

It is a manual and should eliminate any further potential for breakage. It's almost a direct bolt-in for the Muncie save for a little crossmember re-location, and best of all it does <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">not</span></span> require cutting the trans tunnel, PLUS it's a few inches LONGER than a Muncie which = a shorter driveshaft. (Along those lines, I've also found a 12 bolt pinion yoke that's apparently 1&quot; taller than an OEM yoke which takes another inch off the driveshaft)

More details soon.

[Charley Lillard]

Jericho ?

[VintageMusclecar]

Check your PM's.

[earntaz]

Ya' don't need the clutch after first gear ... ??? Yee Hah!!!

[VintageMusclecar]

Nope, not a Jerico.

I'll spill the beans as soon as it arrives.

[Day2_69Z]

DOUG NASH
4 SPEED
or
5 Speed.... 4+1

TREMEC
?

[VintageMusclecar]

Nope and nope.

[SuperNovaSS]

Mopar A-833?


Jason

[earntaz]

TreMec

[novadude]

I still don't understand this one. There must be thousands of Chevelles out there that have turned 4000 rpm in high gear (1:1) many times on stock driveshafts. Munice + 12-bolt = stock length shaft, right? The factory offered 4:10s which would put the driveshaft at that speed barely above legal posted speed limits. I wonder what was going on in your car that made it spit out the shaft?

[VintageMusclecar]

Not a Mopar and not a Tremec.

I'll post up the details once it's here.

John, at this point all I can conclude is that the shaft was junk from the beginning. That still doesn't explain why the 2nd shaft also had a vibration (out of balance or warped also??), but at this point it's water under the bridge. All I can do is pick up the pieces (literally) and move forward.

[napa68]

You're killing me!

http://www.richmondgear.com/index.php/transmission/super-street-5-speed-w-od

????????????????????????????????????????

[napa68]

oooops

you already crossed out the Richmond

kan't reed weell

[VintageMusclecar]

That was actually my first choice, but as per a call directly to Richmond yesterday, that box won't be available until July at the earliest.

[68l30]

The part that confuses me...it came apart under no real load. At what RPM would this have failed on the ground with traction /weight and increase friction-resistance in the driveline ? It could have been much worse. How much depth was in the yoke engagement, how did it slip under rotation? Could there have been a bind adding stress to the shaft during torque / suspension cycling? Any clues on what's left of the Muncie or the shaft (tubing, wall thickness, cracks) itself?

I enjoy doing Destructive &amp; NDT testing on Welded-Fabricated components here at work....I find all failures interesting as they each tell a story. I'm looking forward to seeing this back together !


BIG

[VintageMusclecar]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: crash</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1965-68 Pontiac full-size Muncie is 6&quot; longer than the standard Muncie(and I know where some are)...

I've seen this kind of explosion, check the insides of that Muncie real good... Crash </div></div>

Eric;

Just out of curiosity, can you measure the difference between the 3857584 tailhousing and the 9779246 Pontiac tailhousing trans mount pad?

Does the Pontiac tailhousing use the forward or rearward shifter mounting location?

[earntaz]

NDI to the nth ...

[VintageMusclecar]

NDI? <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif

[earntaz]

Nondestructive Inspection ... system used for inspection of various aircraft related componenents.

[VintageMusclecar]

Ah...I'm familiar with NDT, but I'd not heard of NDI. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

[VintageMusclecar]

Trans has been ordered and is supposed to be here Friday or Monday.

[68l30]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: earntaz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nondestructive Inspection ... system used for inspection of various aircraft related componenents. </div></div>



Yep, same as NDE.....I spend all day staring at Welds and Fabrications. I'm the guy that drives everyone nutz...... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif


BIG

[VintageMusclecar]

You'd think I would've known that acronym since I worked in the aerospace industry...probably knew it at one point and forgot. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif


The ol' gray matter just ain't what it used to be. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif

[earntaz]

Thats why they give us tech data to read even if we've accomplished the task a thousand times -- if something goes hayware, the first thing a QA/QC dude will ask: &quot;Were you using the proper tech order/manual, etc.&quot; If you say no -- you're dead meat even if ya' did the task correctly. For me, it was petty easy -- as a Nuke Troop always had someone to assist -- the old two person concept ... always watching each others six. TAZ

[68l30]

I refer back to my codes daily at times. Other times, they sit on the shelf and gather dust. Always follow the directions and if you vary, better prove it works first. Science, physics and math have been around a long time, that's why they always win. .... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/scholar.gif

BIG

[VaChevyman]

I was readin' some of the remarks here and was wondering what kind of transmission you were getting. Also wanted to say, I have a close friend restoring his LS6 1970 Chevelle to near new original except he had been racing it with an auto trans where it originally had a 4 speed, he sold the 4 speed a few years after buying it in favor of the auto for drag racing, that said, he's pretty good about researching stuff before he buys and has recently received a 4 speed built to m22 specs from a company called Auto Gear in New York. Its supposed to be even better than a m22 for quality of the gears and other parts in it. Just wanted to let you know about it in case you hadn't already heard of them. I'm a newbie and still learning at 66 years old so if I'm off base, just let me know.
http://www.autogear.net/

[VintageMusclecar]

Dan;

You're not off base in any way, and welcome to The Supercar Registry!

The trans I had in the car was built on an Autogear case and iron midplate with GM internals. I have a friend who's going to perform an autopsy on the box and see what--if anything--is still salvageable. If it's worth the effort, I'll get another case &amp; tailhousing later on down the road and rebuild the box and put under the workbench for the day I put the Chevelle back to stock.

[crash]

Eric, I measured the long Muncie against the standard Muncie and...

The long one is 6 1/4&quot; longer...

The trans mount is 7 1/2&quot; further back...

The shifter mounting pad is in the same location...

Hope this helps... Crash

[VintageMusclecar]

Thanks!

[budnate]

https://youtu.be/2lLpZ4hm8b8

[VaChevyman]

Good to hear. Hope it all goes well.

[Dave Rifkin]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: budnate</div><div class="ubbcode-body">https://youtu.be/2lLpZ4hm8b8 </div></div>

DAMN; now that is what drag racing should be. You wanna fill the stands bring back a class where the driver actually has to shift.

[VintageMusclecar]

That's Robert Schmitt's car, he was the winner of the 2004 Hot Rod magazine's pump gas drags event.

One of my favorite `67's of all time.

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[earntaz]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave Rifkin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: budnate</div><div class="ubbcode-body">https://youtu.be/2lLpZ4hm8b8 </div></div>

DAMN; now that is what drag racing should be. You wanna fill the stands bring back a class where the driver actually has to shift. </div></div>

AND get rid of the electonics -- only gimmick is a line lock ... that will separate the men from the boys. Some of these &quot;race cars&quot; have more electonics in the cockpit then the Space Shuttle! Let go of the button, stab it and aim it ...

[VintageMusclecar]

Pretty sure that he's using the rev limiter for shifts on that.

[earntaz]

Not sure if a RL will give a driver an advantage -- but it may certainly keep cost down if you miss a shift!! LOL

[VintageMusclecar]

*edited while I verify info*

[PxTx]

I love your threads Eric. You consistently build the right amount of suspense and the story is fun to follow along with. I'll admit though, I am glad there seems to be a happier tone now that the solution has been chosen. Wish i was in a better position to contribute to your repair, cause when this thread first started -the sickness in my stomach from reading the news can't compare to how you must have felt. You did a nice job of keeping your chin up. Good luck on trans 2.0!

[VintageMusclecar]

(Missed the edit deadline for the last post)

Posted previously above, then removed while I verified the info. See video and info at the end for more info:
================================================== =============

If you have a pro-shifted/faceplated trans, you can use the rev limiter as a &quot;power interrupter&quot; of sorts which enables clutchless shifting. When the engine hits the limiter, power is reduced and the trans will nearly automatically engage the next gear (the driver pre-loads the shifter towards the next gear immediately after each shift). When you heard that popping just before each shift--that was the rev limiter.

Otherwise, you just barely use the clutch to release the load from the trans at the shift point and just as with using the limiter, the trans will essentially pull itself into the next gear.

Very cool stuff, and I came within a <span style="font-style: italic">whisker</span> of going that exact route after this failure, but ultimately wound up taking a slightly different direction.

As it is, a near-perfect solution to my transmission issue pretty much fell into my lap by sheer happenstance. It was one of those &quot;right place at the right time&quot; scenarios.

I promise I'll post up the details as soon as everything's here.

I dropped the Quicktime bellhousing off @ Kammers this afternoon to see if the tweaked trans mounting ear can be put back in place. They seemed relatively confident it could be fixed, I'm to call tomorrow afternoon for the final verdict.

*EDIT*

Check out this video on driving a non-synchro Jerico DR4 on the street. Be sure to read the text below the video for a full explanation.

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[VintageMusclecar]

Paul;

I appreciate the kind words, but I'm far from out of the woods with this deal...I am <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="text-decoration: underline">way out</span></span> in no man's land at this point.

The main thing that's keeping me moving forward now is a rather strange mix of good old-fashioned bull-headed determination (which some may consider a character flaw at times like this) and morbid curiosity.

I'm still pretty shell-shocked at all this, but what else can I do?--even though the thought crossed my mind (and made a hell of an effort to stay there!), I can't exactly leave this thing mechanically eviscerated sitting on jackstands in my garage. I'm in what some might call automotive purgatory--I can't really afford <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="text-decoration: underline">to</span></span></span> fix the car at this point, but at the same time I can't afford <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="text-decoration: underline">NOT to</span></span></span> fix it either.

I can see myself drifting off towards one hell of a rant, so I'll cut this short here.

Your encouragement and kind words are more than enough contribution.

Thank you, and I mean that sincerely. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

[VintageMusclecar]

A little good news:

Kammers just called and they were able to repair the bellhousing.

One rather expensive bullet dodged.

The new clutch also just came in along with the tall Mark Williams pinion yoke.

Re: the pinion yoke, I wanted to note something...

It might seem somewhat frivolous to swap the pinion yoke <span style="font-style: italic">just to</span> shave another inch off of the driveshaft, but there's a little more to it than that. The MW yoke also takes a 1350 series universal joint which is considerably stronger than the OEM 1330 series pinion flange and universal joint.

The new driveshaft will come with 1350 series universal joints by default, and as such would've required an adapter universal joint to mate to the OEM pinion flange--not the way I want to go with this. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/no.gif

More details once the trans arrives.

[wagonman]

Don't fret, in the Aerospace industry NDT is an acronym for both Testing and Inspection.

You don't really hear the acronym NDI To often.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VintageMusclecar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You'd think I would've known that acronym since I worked in the aerospace industry...probably knew it at one point and forgot. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif


The ol' gray matter just ain't what it used to be. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif </div></div>

[m22mike]

This A &amp; P mechanic always took NDT as meaning &quot;Non destructive test&quot; , like X rays, die penatrant, zy glo and eddy currant inspections to list a few. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif

[earntaz]

I guess I am old school -- after being involved with the USAF and DoD for over 41 years ... NDI was the common term. TAZ

http://www.tinker.af.mil/library/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=5509

[napa68]

With all this talk about driveshaft's, I thought this would be appropriate.

http://www.iedls.com/asp/admin/getFile.asp?RID=6&amp;TID=28&amp;FN=PDF

[earntaz]

Tim -- excellent article ... TAZ

[VintageMusclecar]

The replacement trans is on the FedEx truck for delivery today.

Rather than continue on this thread, I'm going to start another one as soon as it's here. I want to put the negative behind and focus on the positive, hence the new thread.