New super car warranty

[black69]

I was talking to one of the dads in my son's boy scout group, that bought a new vette, and was having a super charger put on it, and said the speed shop doing it, could take it off, if something bad happened and it had to go back to chevy for warranty work. I said, I would not be so sure, the main computer could not tell something was different on that engine running the new setup. Sounded all really shakey/shady (and made me wonder, do non factory conversions operate this way?)

I told him this is why I like the Hellcat, it comes with a pretty good warranty. He said he felt he probably could get stuck eating the cost of blowing up the engine, if something went wrong and was ok with that. I disagreed with that mentality.

So what is pretty valid on this site to discuss, what are all the warranty views from Lingenfelter, Hennesy, Nickey, etc? Aren't most of these cars conversions with the original long block still in place and would be similar to the corvette conversion mentioned above? And what happens if you damage the differential or the trans with the added horsepower? Is that under warranty conversion as part of the conversion?

The closest factory car I remember that may have had probably had a decent factory warranty was a 605HP 2002 ZL1 Camaro the previous owner of my 69 Camaro had.

[PxTx]

I had a Magnusun blower which was a TRD part on my 1999 Tacoma 3.4l. Full warranty, Toyota never had a probalem- probably because TRD offered it. FYI- he guy who ones the truck now still says it runs great and no issue with well over 150k on it.

http://www.magnacharger.com/t-Will-installing-a-supercharger-void-my-warranty.aspx

Now there is something to be said for these motors such as the Hellcat which are engineered form new with the blower in mind. Many turbo motors have the oil squirters to cool the wrist pins- probably SC ones too and I'm sure a few performance N/A motors do, sodium filled exhaust valves tend to be reserved for forced induction, better cooling and a beefed up crank snout too. Many motors live a long life without these items, but there is peace-of-mind when engineered as new.

I'm not one to worry much about voiding warranty. I've always had success talking through differences in perspective and related failures.

[black69]

I just searched for a comparable 700hp upgrade for a ZL1 camaro and found this:
2 yr/24K miles. I think its just covers the engine.

http://www.lingenfelter.com/engine-packa...-package-700-hp (http://www.lingenfelter.com/engine-packages/camaro-zl1-2012-2013/camaro-378-cid-zl1-supercharged-engine-package-700-hp)

Then this one gives you 3 yr 36K miles
http://www.hennesseyperformance.com/hpe700-zl1.html

Or for 50 more HP, you have <span style="font-weight: bold">1 yr/12K miles </span>to try to have bragging rights on an unmodified hellcat:
http://www.hennesseyperformance.com/hpe700-zl1.html

[old5.0]

Not sure how Chevy does it, but on the Fords, there are specific emissions-certified packages available through the catalog that maintain the factory warranty as long as they're installed by the dealer. You go to an outside shop, you're on your own, although many of those shops, at least the reputable ones, offer their own coverage in some form or another.

[black69]

Emissions, there is another can of worms. Going though the 3 options I looked at, I would chose the Hennensy option, as it offers the 3 y 36K mile warranty. That is reasonable.

Hennesy and Lingenfelter are opening up the stock engines, and doing some porting work to net some of the horsepower gains. I feel, Nickey has to be pushing a lot of extra fuel, to make up for not opening up the engine, in their method to get the same 700HP. So if that's the case, I would be more worried with Nickey conversion passing emissions, when the tester gets in and revs the car up.

But, hands down, Hennessy seems to be the only logical choice due to the 3 yr warranty, and the odds are you have some margin on emissions compliance. 1 and 2 yr options, no way.

[budnate]

Speaking of Emission's, have you guys been paying attention to what's going on in California.....the noose is tightening again. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/thumbsdown.gif

[Charley Lillard]

&quot;The closest factory car I remember that may have had probably had a decent factory warranty was a 605HP 2002 ZL1 Camaro the previous owner of my 69 Camaro had.&quot;
There was no factory warranty on any 600 hp 2002 ZL1. That car was built by GMMG and there are still angry people that ended up having to fix the engines themselves after the valve guides were shot after a few hundred miles due to lack of valvetrain geometry knowledge..
I would also take a Nickey over a Hennessy because he is a sponsor here and I have heard alot more great things about Nickey versus Hennessy.
Read this and tell me you would choose Hennessy.
http://www.caranddriver.com/columns/supercars-can-bite-as-hard-as-they-can-run

And before you discount Nickey again because he does not open up some of his engines why don't you ask him before inferring his product is not done right.

[69LM1]

Friend of mine has a 2015 Vette, Hennessy (Pre Z06), and I am not impressed at all. The New Z06's stock eat his lunch all the time.

He has more in the Hennessy than a new Z06.

Rich

[427TJ]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Read this and tell me you would choose Hennessy.
http://www.caranddriver.com/columns/supercars-can-bite-as-hard-as-they-can-run </div></div>

This is from 2002, BTW. Is Hennessy still this bad after 13 years? I park at work near a newer Jeep Cherokee SRT with Hennessy emblems and I lust after it. Oh, and Csaba Csere is pronounced &quot;Chobba Chedda.&quot; Honest.

[black69]

Charlie, referring to something 13 yrs back does not seem fair. I just checked, and maybe they are not as bad as you infer, as Jay Leno bought a 2011 Camaro from them. I think being able to convince Jay Leno is not an easy accomplishment.

Getting back to what I stated, the dominant reason I would select a conversion, it was based on warranty. Hennessy states they have a 3 yr/36K mile. The dodge 700HP competiton has a 5 yr/100K.

As far as Nickey, if I have to precheck on something that is common-sensical to me, before posting, maybe I should not post here anymore. I read those other specs, and if they (Lingenfelter and Hennessy) are doing something to improve breathing to get some of the horsepower gain, then the balance has to be increased fuel delivery. All of them seem to be polishing the intake flow. I looked at some of the injector specs, and I see 65 lbs for Lingenfelter and I see a 85? for Nickey. So I made the comment, when someone else stated emissions, the Nickey conversion has to likely be pushing more fuel considering they have not touched the heads. I further stated nobody would NOT pass emissions, only pointed to concern. After 2-3 yrs you would be on your own, and some of these cars wont go in to emissions testing until after the warranty expires. Here in the state of Illinois, I believe its 5 yrs from new, and then every 2 yrs.

-bob

[old5.0]

Regarding Hennessy, that article doesn't even scratch the surface. Beyond the legion of customers he screwed, he's also, to put it bluntly, an *******. He left a swath of destruction a mile wide in his wake and while some claim that he's turned over a new leaf, I wouldn't risk my money to find out.

[427TJ]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: black69</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Charlie, referring to something 13 yrs back does not seem fair. I just checked, and maybe they are not as bad as you infer, as Jay Leno bought a 2011 Camaro from them. I think being able to convince Jay Leno is not an easy accomplishment. </div></div>

We must assume that Leno was put at the front of the line and that Hennessy made sure his car was perfect, or close to it, before they delivered it to Leno. Upset customers are one thing, an upset Jay Leno is another.

[427freak]

<span style="font-style: italic">&quot;After 2-3 yrs you would be on your own, and some of these cars wont go in to emissions testing until after the warranty expires. Here in the state of Illinois, I believe its 5 yrs from new, and then every 2 yrs.&quot;</span>

In California first smog is 4 years now, just changed from 5. Every 2 years after that. Just had one smogged, no more sniffer on cars with OBDII. Just did visual, checked for evap leaks and plugged into OBD port to look for codes. If what you do to the engine is Calif legal (per the visual, CARB stickers) and it does not trip the check engine light it is good.

[Stefano]

We at NicKey do offer a limited warranty on our packages and stand behind the workmanship on anything we build.

Warranties are subject to many variables and range from no warranty up to three years.

As an example we offer a two year or 24,000 mile, which ever comes first on our most popular option the ZL1-Stage II 850hp package. Not many shops are backing up that much HP.

The most important aspect of any warranty is how it is handled in application. If you have to fight for a valid claim, it may not be worth the paper its written on and just about any attorney can make a cause for it being the owners fault and not the builder.

It is also important know exactly what is and what isn't covered, parts, labor, towing, shipping etc.....

It would be difficult if not almost impossible for any Performance shop to match an OEM warranty.

In practical application we at NicKey have built more than 100 serialized cars in the past decade with many, many more shop cars. I am not aware of one single warranty issue which was not resolved with 100% customer satisfaction.

Next, I would like to clarify some of the miss-information posted regarding our builds. There is just about nothing we haven't done to an LS engine. To insinuate that we just bolt parts on for our builds is false. There is no magic wand to performance, many of the top performance shops even use many of the same Key parts and components and have similar performance results. Our builds/packages are very safe and sound, none are pushing any performance envelope.

Regarding the emissions issue. We build cars with 50 state complaint emission and CARB certifications and we build cars which are for off road use competition purposes only. Passing an emissions test and being emissions legal are not necessarily the same thing. It is also not accurate and false that another shops car will pass emissions while ours will not, under the same circumstances.

I would also like to point out that Ken / Kristen Lingenfelter are a class act and own a top notch Performance operation. If someone chose them to build their car, I cannot see how they could go wrong. We built a NicKey Camaro as a joint venture a while back, and it turned out fantastic.

[black69]

Thanks for responding Stephano. I focused on the term used in the description of your 700HP package, i.e. <span style="font-style: italic">It transforms your ZL-1 to true Super Car status and performance without opening up the engine.</span> I thought I made it clear in my post, I only referred to Nickey as not touching the heads or block. If that insinuates only a bolt on mentality, those are your words, not mine. I don't know what else to say there.

So to Charlie's point, I should have asked you how you get the 700HP without touching the heads and block? I cant put the tooth paste back in the tube at this point, so I am asking now. Is there a basic answer? I see same parts (like pulley ratio), and polishing of similar components, etc, the other guys still do. I can understand there could be some secrets involved here also, that maybe cant be disclosed. Is possible the heads on the stock ZL-1 are good enough to not really need modification to net any real meaningful HP gains compared to other modifications?

[Stefano]

There are times we need to get into the engine and times when its not necessary. With this particular Option: ZL1 Stage I, 700 fwhp / 600 rwhp there is no need to get into the engine. There really aren't too many trade secrets as the LSA engine has been out for quite some time and literally, hundreds of shop have been working on them.

We got one of the First ZL1s and tested our components/pkg on it. It made the power we needed and we have been improving and revising the option since then.

All of the info on the Webs sites is not 100% accurate.

Here are the parts necessary to Achieve the power levels. (There are other ways to get there, but this is the most cost effective. IMO)
ATI Damper
Lower Pulley
Idler relocation bracket
Belt
Injectors
Cold Air Box
Headers
Off road connection pipes
NicKey Super tune
93 Octane Premium Gas

[black69]

Thanks Stephano, that helps a lot. I just read about the one car you did with the Lingenfelter engine that was at Indy in 2012. Very nice. I would not mind driving that around.
https://www.mecum.com/lot-detail/SC0512-126606/0/2010-Chevrolet-Nickey-LPE-Camaro-Coupe/6-Speed/

I also read the warranty that was refered to earlier in the thread for Magnuson super chargers. I can see all the subtle differences one could get into, on a warranty claim. For example, they go as far as requiring no more than 91 octane (last page), if you sign up for their warranty. Looks like they can protect themselves, if they wanted to.

[Stefano]

NicKey Stage I ZL1.

This is the most recent Stage I we just finished up.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/05/full-295-26086-photo1.jpg

[black69]

That looks like a nice flat torque plot!. I went and looked at the Lingenfelter plot (although dated), and it did not look as flat. I would judge yours as better.

[kwhizz]

As far as Stefano tuning these engines and getting power without getting inside the engine........Nickey tuned my Chevelle without doing anything mechanical to the engine........Headers, a smaller transmission (4L70E) and Stefano's tune gave my &quot;Stock&quot; LSA 570 rwhp..........and it idles like a 283......LOL......

Ken

[Stefano]

Thanks Ken, your car runs phenomenal. It's amazing what just a Cold air intake, headers and a good tune will do for an LSA.

The LSA is one of the best, most durable and upgradable engines ever built.

Here is a Stage II ZL1 on 91 octane pump gas (no methanol) then E85 / E67.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/05/full-295-26087-nickey_zl1_14.dyno.jpg (http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/05/full-295-26087-nickey_zl1_14.dyno.jpg)