Zedder's Red '67 L78

[Zedder]

Here is a little info on the new '67 L78 that I just purchased. The car was advertised on ebay in 2006 and was a no sale. The owner and I kept in touch over the years and 2 hours before Tony was to inspect the Black L78 in Detroit, I get an email saying that he is finally ready to let the car go and accept my latest offer! Coincidence??? So, I call him as soon as I get home and we finalize the deal. Here is what I know so far about the car. The car was apparently sold new in New York and was raced by the first owner soon after he got it. It is a Bolero Red '67 SS396 L78 with M21 and 3.73 posi. All of the drivetrain is original. Black standard interior, am radio, power disc brakes, rally wheels, and a cowl plenum breather was added at some point.

Early in the car's life, he staggered the rear shocks like a '68 and added multi-leaf rear springs to help with wheel hop. Nothing else was cut-up or changed and the car retains all of it's original panels except the trunk lid (the SS hood comes with the car). There has been NO RUST in this car ever <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif It has had one repaint in the wrong shade of red.

I'm not sure when the second owner bought it, but he sold it to the guy I bought it from in 1998 and it had 12,000 miles on it. It currently has 20,993 miles. As you can see it has a number of 70's mods like the wheels, cowl hood, air shocks, spoilers, electronic ignition, chrome alt bracket, flex fan etc. Also, the current owner put fresh rings and bearings and roller rockers on the car - original carb, intake, distributor (in a box), alternator.

Here are a few pics:

[Zedder]

A few more...

[Zedder]

All original interior above...even the original non-SS steering wheel.

A few more...

[Zedder]

Last one's for now...

[Zedder]

The main reason the car didn't sell on ebay was the due to the paint color being wrong and so the owner bartered with a friend to get it painted. It spent 2 years in paint jail just to come out fish-eyed. So, it is still de-chromed waiting for a proper paint job. I would really just like to set a budget of $20K to get the car repainted and all of the incorrect items straightened out, but I'm not sure if I should just wait and go all out with a full cosmetic resto of the sub and under-carriage etc. Decisions, decisions...

[Xplantdad]

Way cool! I would enjoy it and drive it for a while...then decide <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

Congrats on the newest member of your car family!

[John]

....Great find <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

... Got any photos of it as it was raced? <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

[Zedder]

Thanks guys. I haven't got the paperwork yet to call the 2nd owner and see what he has/remembers...

[PeteLeathersac]

W<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/drool.gifW and congrats again!!!
What of the D80, added @ lid swap?
<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif
~ Pete

[Zedder]

Thanks Pete...not sure yet. I still need to gather a lot of info. I just ordered the NCRS report on the car...should be interesting to see where it started out.

[ss427copo]

Nice score!

[1967Z28]

Congratulations on the purchase, Mark.

-Jon

[brent396]

Nice find <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

[iluv69s]

Sweeeettt.. congrats Mark !!! interesting w the non-SS steering wheel... hope you find more history on the car,...good luck with it !!!

[JRC99]

Very cool car.

[earntaz]

Mark -- check the pinion seal ... looks like grease on the side of the tail pipe and muffler. TAZ

[Day2_69Z]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zedder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A few more...</div></div>

MQ code is shared in '67 L78 &amp; '69 L72 ????

I could swear in the Rust Bucket '69 COPO Thread next door States. ...MQ for. L72
A misprint or are my eyes really this bad ?

[Lynn]

Freakin awesome.
I love it when the plan comes together.
I also like to see great cars like this end up in the RIGHT hands, and Mark, you are definitely the one Karma had in mind to be caretaker for this car. Just awesome.

[Zedder]

Thanks guys...I really appreciate the kind words. The L78's didn't get SS horn buttons, but I have no idea why?

TAZ, thanks for the heads up...I saw that oil but didn't know where it was coming from. I know that I have a number of things to fix like that and the rubber fuel line!

[earntaz]

What an AWESOME way to keep yourself busy ... enjoy!! TAZ

[Zedder]

Thanks Taz...if anyone else notices things like the leak Taz pointed out, feel free to mention it...you won't hurt my feelings <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif. I've been away from Camaros for 10 years and I've forgotten a lot!

I'm currently leaning towards collecting parts and fixing all of the backyard mechanic work that was done in the past before doing anything with the paint. It's definitely getting some Cragar's so feel free to suggest wheel and tire options. Likely putting wheel opening and drip rail mouldings with pin stripes like we used to do on all our cars back in the 70's - sorry in advance to the purists <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

[scuncio]

Nice Mark! Sorry we couldn't get the deal done on the other car.

[Zedder]

Thanks Tony. It certainly wasn't your fault...I appreciate you trying so hard.

[Zedder]

Got the NCRS docs today...sold new at Alt Chevrolet, Grand Island, NY. Ironically, only about an hour away from here...

[RJS]

Good for you Mark!!! I think you made out better sticking to your guns and waiting for the right car to pop up. No rust is a big factor and completely matching to boot.
Ron

[Zedder]

Well...I give up! I've been waiting 6 weeks now to finalize the deal and get the car picked up and I can't take the excuses anymore. Really nice guy, but he is impossible to work with! Back to the drawing board....

[Xplantdad]

That sucks!

[SS427]

I know how you feel Mark. Been working with an LS6 owner for over 8 months now. Wants to sell the car but impossible to work with and has killed at least 4 different deals. I'm done!

[Zedder]

I hate to walk Rick, but it went from, it's at his mother's, to I can't find the keys because they are locked in the trunk, to I can't get the back seat out, to...

[DW31S]

Feel bad for you Bro. Nothing like getting jerked around for no real reason. Gotta wonder what makes people tick.

[1967Z28]

That really sucks, Mark. I hope you have better luck next time around.

[bbbentley]

Many things in my life I wonder why did they happen? Just as many times, I wonder why some things did not happen? If it is meant to be, it will work out. Sorry, Mark, for all the emotions that have come from this event. Hang in there.

[njsteve]

Grrrr. I hate pathological liars. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/mad.gif

Reminds me of a guy I tried to deal with many years ago who allegedly had the original, damaged block for a car I was restoring. He went from, &quot;it's in my garage,&quot; to &quot;it's in my dad's garage&quot; to &quot;it's buried in the back yard of my dad's house&quot; to &quot;my dad found it in the garage just yesterday and threw it out with the garbage at the curb.&quot;

REALLY??? Your frikken 87-year-old father lifted a 200 lb engine block and carried it 100 feet to the curb??????

Sorry for your failed deal. You'll find something better.

[Zedder]

Thank you all...I really appreciate it. It's funny, as I get older this stuff just doesn't bother me like it used to. As my wife says, &quot;there's always another car <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

[chevelleheart]

Sorry to hear all that Mark, I've had the odd one like that too. But It makes us all appreciate dealing with real car guys, the guys that say yes to a price and stick to it. That don't shop your offer all over the place and sell it out from underneath you. Guys that never skirt around the &quot; orig numbers matching&quot; issues, the fake cowl tags, buildsheets, re-stamps, ..guys that tell you exactly the truth , which thankfully is the majority of guys I've been fortunate enough to deal with...
Good Luck Mark,...on to the next car....

[Zedder]

So this car might be available to me again and I could use some help in determining a budget for making it a nice cruise night car. It has 21,000 original miles on it. Here is the deal:

The car is sitting partially stripped right now as the owner was going to repaint it. There is NO RUST anywhere, but it needs stripped and repainted the correct shade of red. It needs a windshield, gas tank, fuel lines, tires and new Cragars, carb rebuilt, pinion seal, carpet and headliner and probably needs the brakes done. Also the correct harmonic balancer put on it. I’m sure there are other small things, but that is everything major.

So what is a realistic budget for this? Nice driver quality cruise night car...not a show piece. Ideally, i’d Like to get this work done in the US before shipping the car to Ontario as I don’t know anyone local that can do the work.

The car used to have a Stinger hood and cowl plenum breather on it when it was a weekend racer...I would do that again with wheel well and drip rail trim and white pin stripes...

[Zedder]

Let me put it another way...do you think I can get the work done for $30k? If so, any recommendations for a shop to do it? I’d love Brian at Super Car Workshop or Rick Nelson to do the car, but both are probably out of this price range. Thanks for any assistance offered!

[Zedder]

For those following along...a couple of members were kind enough to send me pm’s. Consensus is $15-$20k...or $30k for a top quality shop. Sure makes doing an L78 project difficult to justify.

[Zedder]

Video of the car in it’s current state...

https://www.facebook.com/1088961617857393/posts/1616028945150655/

[1967 4K]

Good to hear about your purchase Mark I know you’ve been looking for quite some time. I remember seeing this car in years past. Congrats and good luck. What’s the build date please?
Richard

[Zedder]

Haven’t bought it yet Richard...but saw it today. Still trying to justify the total cost after paint etc. It’s an 07B car.

[1967 4K]

Sorry I misunderstood. One week newer build than mine. Does it have a 406 cast # block?

[Zedder]

Have to check my pics when I get home and let you know...

[southernfriedcj]

Just read the thread. Were you ever able to buy the Camaro?

[Zedder]

No, every time we get close...it falls apart again. I’ve let go of the thought of owning one day...

[BJCHEV396]

Never let go Mark!

[Jonesy]

Hey, its only been 3 years!! :D

[x77-69z28]

Sorry to hear Mark. Stick with it. It took me 20 years to get back the original short block to my 69Z. Every excuse in the world, but I stuck with it. It paid off in the end.
Buddy

[southernfriedcj]

No, every time we get close...it falls apart again. I’ve let go of the thought of owning one day...

That sucks. Is he one of those people that is afraid he's going to sell it too cheap?

I run into that type all the time when buy development property.

They are scared to name a price or take an offer because they fear they will sell to cheap.

Usually they are super flaky and have several buyers trying to get the deal. I always tell them if they want to treat it like an auction then sell it at an auction and I'll bid.

[Zedder]

No, price wasn’t the issue. He needed to do a few things before I would send a deposit...like find the keys and title :) he just kept delaying to the point that I was afraid to send the money. If I was local, I may have felt ok doing the deal in cash upon picking the car up. No way I was going to wire the money.

[Zedder]

It’s actually been 12 years! We first talked about the car in 2006!

Thanks guys!

[Zedder]

https://www.facebook.com/mark.alexander.33886305/videos/2061461170757425/

Here is a video of it...original drivetrain L78...

[Zedder]

Just a quick update since it's been 3 years since my last post on this one! The owner and I have kept in touch over the years. He got divorced in his 60's a few years ago and met a new lady on-line. They met and married in the Philippines and then got stuck there due to Covid-19. He just let me know that he is back in the US and is working on the L78. He is going to paint it himself (he says that he has done a lot of cars) and then he will call me to see if I am interested in it. Hopefully, that won't take another 3 years!

[Pro Stock John]

Awesome car, shame it's sitting like that, good luck!

[Too Many Projects]

Where is it in the states ? Could one of us go look at it for you and maybe prod the owner to pull his head out ? I can get in a trunk and retrieve keys... a long stick with a bent friggen nail can reach from the back seat. It just isn't that hard, if he REALLY wants to sell it.

Buy it without paint, you aren't going to be happy with what he does anyway.

[1967 4K]

Is that one in Phil’s registry?

[Zedder]

Thanks guys!. He got the keys out and found the title. I made him an offer without paint, but he is dead set on painting it! I’m not holding my breath that he will come through this time, but you never know!

Yes, it is in the registry. Rather not post where it is until I have a deal on it.

[chevelleheart]

Mark, …I have to say , I love your tenacity…and stickwithitness!! Good luck

[Zedder]

Thanks! The guy has never done anything intentional to screw with me, so I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[Pro Stock John]

I guess my concern is that he will (a) repaint the car and then put it out there again to see what the market reaction is, or (b) he's just not at the point where he's going to do something. If you lived by him I wonder how he'd react to cold hard cash in his hands. Could buy a nice cruiser.

[Zedder]

I agree with you John, but I just have to let it play out. It’s already been 15 years, so what’s a little more time? ��. If he sells it to someone else, there’s always another car…

[Zedder]

Update: the brakes have been done and the car is nearly ready for paint!

[Too Many Projects]

Have him send pics.
https://www.cloudynights.com/uploads/monthly_10_2006/post-17081-14070996271141_thumb.gif

[Zedder]

That is exactly what I asked him for!

[Zedder]

Anyone have the correct paint code for the black tail panel on an L78?

[Zedder]

The paint work has started….

[touspude]

Any updated pictures of it?

[Zedder]

Just the fenders that I received yesterday.

[Zedder]

Updating the saga…the owner was contacting me every few week asking questions about paint details. The last pic sent was this one…

I’ve sent him 3 messages since Dec 17th with no response. Really hope he is ok and has just gone AWOL as he does from time-to-time.

[Zedder]

As usual…just got this message…

Hi, it's just slow going right now. I've been working a lot on the engine Bay area. The rest of the car Body is about 90% ready to paint Except for the doors. The 2 fenders are done and look great with the white stripes.

Glad to hear that he is ok!

[Crush]

I would ask if it’s ok to stop by.

[Zedder]

That would involve a 2 hour plane ride! ;)

[Zedder]

A few more update pics. Unfortunately, the owner decided to por15 chassis black everything…

[Too Many Projects]

You'll have a driver that you won't need to be concerned about getting wet or dirty. After the POR 15 peels off, you can start the correct resto.

[cook_dw]

That appears to be a 69 subframe. Also looks like a small balancer too. Wasn't this the original engine?

[Zedder]

It is the original drivetrain and yes, he knows he put a 350 balancer on it when he freshened the motor - "that's all I had in the shop" was his rationale. We've never discussed the subframe.

[NorCam]

"that's all I had in the shop"

That's a real good sign for...run the other way!

[cook_dw]

350 as in cubic inch!!?!!

[Zedder]

The car is $55,000 once it is painted and reassembled. Runs great, no rust, original interior and all numbers match drivetrain (stamping verified). I don't think anyone expects it to be perfect for that price...and frankly, I may not end up buying it. The owner recently inherited his mother's estate, so he is no longer pressed for money.

I'm just posting the pics for those who have been following the story over the years and are interested in seeing more details about the car.

The car is low miles, but was a weekend drag racer when new.

[Zedder]

That appears to be a 69 subframe. Also looks like a small balancer too. Wasn't this the original engine?

What makes you think it is a 69 subframe?

[cook_dw]

Lack of frame mounted bump stop, and what appears to be the 3rd elongated hole on the horn…. Hence I said “that appears to be” as the wiring harness is in the way. FYI I never admitted to be 100% correct as I could always be wrong.

[cook_dw]

In general.

67

[cook_dw]

68

[cook_dw]

69. Now there is some overlap between 68/9 but you get the general idea. Also the location of the bump stop changes each year. That can be found here..http://www.camaros.org/suspen.shtml#aarms

[Zedder]

Thanks. I don’t believe the welded bump stop bracket would be visible at these angles. There are no bump stop bolt holes in the a-arms, and there is no elongated or round third hole. Looks like a 67 frame to me. That 69 frame you posted says 70 Nova on it.

[cook_dw]

Nova and camaro shared the same frame.. as I said I could be wrong from the photos presented.:beers:

[Zedder]

No problem. I had to look at pics of the 67 I just sold to remember exactly where those brackets were located.

[Zedder]

I received an update last week...the saga continues, but I really don't care one way or the other!

He found that the head bolts were leaking coolant into the engine and had to pull it. It is at the shop being rebuilt. He was doing the paint work at his cousin's place. She has mental health issues and had some sort or relapse, so he cannot work there any longer as it stresses her out. He will move the car somewhere else when he gets the engine back in. All true? I really have no idea. However, if it is, he should have sold me the car as is when I tried to buy it that way before he started working on it!!!

[Too Many Projects]

This is one of those I'll believe it when I see it dramas. Sorry you are stuck in the middle.

[Zedder]

No worries…I’m 99% sure it will never see my garage and I’m ok with that. Just wanted to share the continuing story with those who have been following along.

[Pro Stock John]

Our thoughts are with you.

[Steve Shauger]

No worries…I’m 99% sure it will never see my garage and I’m ok with that. Just wanted to share the continuing story with those who have been following along.

Hi Mark I assume nothing positive to report? I've been strung along a few times. Hope all is well...

[Zedder]

Hi Steve, all is well…hope the same for you. Once again, the guy has fallen off of the face of the earth. I haven’t heard a peep from since he sent those last photos.

[Zedder]

Hi Mark I assume nothing positive to report? I've been strung along a few times. Hope all is well...

Guess who I heard from Steve? Yep, the Camaro had the engine rebuilt and is painted except for the tailpan blackout. Owner is in the Philippines until November, but says he will have it finished shortly…and the story continues!

[Steve Shauger]

Guess who I heard from Steve? Yep, the Camaro had the engine rebuilt and is painted except for the tailpan blackout. Owner is in the Philippines until November, but says he will have it finished shortly…and the story continues!

:biggthumpup:

[chevelleheart]

This is just a brutal story to follow anymore,…god what a goat rodeo you’ve had Mark …
Brutal

[Zedder]

Thank God I don’t take it seriously! It used to piss me off, now it makes me chuckle ��. Thought you guys would get a kick out of the update.

[Too Many Projects]

Surprising he still has your contact info and thinks you are still going to buy this when/if it's ever done. I wonder if he's ever considered you'd pass from old age first...:rolleyes2:

But, you are right. After this long, it is just entertainment.

[Zedder]

He’s actually older than me. I think he is in his early 70’s now. We’ve been negotiating since 2006!

[Zedder]

Well, this should be interesting. The owner just emailed saying that he needs to sell the car because his brother wants it out of his shop. Last message a few months ago was that he was nearly finished painting it and rebuilding the motor. Not sure if he got it completed yet? Not even sure if I'm still interested after 18 years!

Update: Just got a few pics. It's not finished. I'll post pics tonight when I get home. Such a shame he started working on it. Rust free, 20,000 mile original drive train L78 that had nice paint although the wrong shade of red.

[Too Many Projects]

Wow, what a long term drama with this guy.
Follow thru with the info, especially price. If you decide you are no longer interested, someone else on here may well want the chance to buy it.

[Zedder]

Heard a little more. I'll post details tonight. Poor fellow has some health issues. Car is not complete yet, but he did spend bunch of money on it. Asking price is a bargain given what it really is - $48k.

[Zedder]

Anybody looking for a little project work to finish it off into a driver for me? :)

[fastco]

cough! cough! still got my contact info?

Paul

[Zedder]

cough! cough! still got my contact info?

Paul

Coming out of retirement, Paul? :)

[Zedder]

From the owner…‘The engine has been rebuilt and installed in the car, transmission and drive shaft all connected. The car has been painted but not all of it has been buffed out yet. Doors are hung but still the front end needs to be assembled and fenders need to be installed. One door needs the glass reinstalled. The rear tail pan is painted but the SS hood is not painted yet. The front windshield is cracked and needs replacing. There is an issue with the oil filter adapter, it was pressed into the cavity in the block where it's supposed to be but it should have been mounted with 2 bolts. So it needs to be taken out and I have a new one to put in there the correct way. Also the trunk lid needs to be installed‘

[Zedder]

Sorry…even with a new iPad I can’t get the pics oriented on this website. This doesn’t happen on any other site that I visit?

[fastco]

Still retired from the shop, but building my own stuff.

Paul

[Too Many Projects]

Looks like most of a day to assemble the car to move it. How difficult would it be to get it into Canada as a roller ?

[Zedder]

No problem shipping it as a roller. The challenge would be getting it back together so they can move it in one piece.

[Too Many Projects]

Definitely, you would need to find someone in the area that could do that.

[PeteLeathersac]

‘

Best of luck Mark, whatever’s happening now.:crazy:
:beers:
~ Pete

.

[Zedder]

Thanks Pete! I just keep looking at the pics thinking, “why didn’t you listen to me and leave it alone!” Remember, when we started talking it looked like this!

[BJCHEV396]

Thanks Pete! I just keep looking at the pics thinking, “why didn’t you listen to me and leave it alone!” Remember, when we started talking it looked like this!

Wow,looked great!!

[Zedder]

It was, but it was painted Toyota red rather than Bolero red. He thought it would bring more money if he repainted it. Everything spiralled out of control from there!

[Too Many Projects]

What a BUFFOON !!! Good grief, what he did was crazy. Agree, it looked great...:frown:

[Zedder]

He wouldn’t listen to me when I offered suggestions. For example a few months ago he told me he was going to rebuild the suspension with urethane bushings and front coil overs. I told him not to waste money on stuff like that if he was going to sell the car as L78 lovers would want it bone stock. As you can see, he didn’t listen to me. Ironically, he now wants what I offered him for it 3 years ago before he painted it, rebuilt the motor and did that suspension work. I think he’ll struggle to get $35-$40k as is.

[Too Many Projects]

I'm with you on the "should have left it alone". As it sits, it needs a person with mechanical skills, tools, time and be close by to even get it out of the shop. As a classic, immobile, "basket case", I suspect he may struggle to get 30k.

If he can assemble it to roller status, your assessment of price is reasonable.
If he thought the urethane bushings and double adjustable coil overs were going to help the price, he may as well have dropped an LS engine in it to attract the under 40 crowd.

[chevelleheart]

OMG , it’s so sad…
If he had just left it , absolutely a deal coulda been had