Estate Sale 427 Tear Down

[SuperNovaSS]

I posted pictures of a 69 DZ 302 engine awhile back and received positive response so I thought I would try it again.

I bought this 427 engine from a guy who bought it out of an estate sale. He was told it was a "427 out of a Corvette". I looked the engine over and saw it had a 1966 top end and a 69 block. The block has a CE code on the front pad and has never been painted. I originally thought it was a engine out of a 66 Corvette or Impala that had the shortblock replaced under warranty. As I look further, I am not sure.

The has a service dated 67 L88 carb dated 69. It has a 63 Corvette tach drive distributor. The heads have also been ported as shown by the rounded exhaust ports. The engine came with a 69 dated Muncie M20 counter replacement transmission and scattershield that supposedly came out of the same car and came with the headers shown. To me, this points more towards a hot hot built back in 69 with parts someone gathered along with a dealer purchased shortblock. I'm hoping the shortblock is early L-88.

The engine has obviously been mothballed for a long time and still has an embossed AC oil filter that someone set down on the crate it was sitting on <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/frown.gif . I am hoping is was not pulled due an explosion or failure. I plan to take it apart later today. Any guesses on what we will find?


Jason

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20001_zps5cvds2bx.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20001_zps5cvds2bx.jpg.html)


http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20002_zpsmcwrylym.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20002_zpsmcwrylym.jpg.html)


http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20003_zps4vlvops6.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20003_zps4vlvops6.jpg.html)

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20004_zpss46xpfp5.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20004_zpss46xpfp5.jpg.html)

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20005_zpsxteoznlo.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20005_zpsxteoznlo.jpg.html)

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20008_zpsnf1cgpyr.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20008_zpsnf1cgpyr.jpg.html)

[SuperNovaSS]

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20006_zpslqowrasw.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20006_zpslqowrasw.jpg.html)

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20007_zpsyfjcvvgi.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20007_zpsyfjcvvgi.jpg.html)

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20009_zps7c1cckxw.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20009_zps7c1cckxw.jpg.html)

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20010_zpsgcjfpqqv.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20010_zpsgcjfpqqv.jpg.html)

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20011_zpsbknxh8lv.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20011_zpsbknxh8lv.jpg.html)

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20012_zpstxlrd65q.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20012_zpstxlrd65q.jpg.html)

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20017_zpsqjtbayop.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20017_zpsqjtbayop.jpg.html)

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20013_zpsy8myxgro.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20013_zpsy8myxgro.jpg.html)

[SuperNovaSS]

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20014_zpshwhsdy7q.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20014_zpshwhsdy7q.jpg.html)

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20015_zpsvjerbgwf.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20015_zpsvjerbgwf.jpg.html)

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20016_zpsovjpua9v.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20016_zpsovjpua9v.jpg.html)

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20018_zpsxqakzrbf.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20018_zpsxqakzrbf.jpg.html)

[mockingbird812]

Cool. By all means, take us along on this adventure!

[Xplantdad]

hoping for good luck on your teardown!

[SuperNovaSS]

Thanks guys.

Well, I got it torn down to the short block. The bad news is this thread will not be as exciting as the DZ 302 thread. The good news is these are nice parts.

Here we go........

Lets get the carb off:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20019_zpsmkkh0hmc.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20019_zpsmkkh0hmc.jpg.html)


Hmmm, that's not stock but at least they didn't go too crazy.

Let's get the intake off:


http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20020_zpsaazn8tpr.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20020_zpsaazn8tpr.jpg.html)

No, surprises here. Some gasket matching on the intake ports but no porting. No evidence of damage or destruction yet.

Off with it's heads:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20022_zpsh5ptnbag.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20022_zpsh5ptnbag.jpg.html)

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20023_zpstyf2nku0.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20023_zpstyf2nku0.jpg.html)

Everything looks good here. Sorry for the rust dust, I shouldn't have blown it off. The cooling ports spewed dust. Oh wait, what's on the dome of that piston:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20029_zpskp4ajgc6.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20029_zpskp4ajgc6.jpg.html)

Looks like we had quite a few valves contact the pistons.

Let's check the heads for bent valves:


http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20024_zpss08xhmc0.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20024_zpss08xhmc0.jpg.html)

No bent valves or damage to the heads. This engine must have been apart before. Let's check the bores:


http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20030_zpstya3hq2i.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20030_zpstya3hq2i.jpg.html)


http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20027_zps2dnzmi7a.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20027_zps2dnzmi7a.jpg.html)


Hmmm, nice standard bores and no stampings on the pistons.

Time to get this unit on a stand and dig deeper.

First, the flywheel has to go:


http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20028_zpsxhff1ct3.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20028_zpsxhff1ct3.jpg.html)

Now, to get it on the stand. I hope my back can handle it:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427_zpsorigha1o.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427_zpsorigha1o.jpg.html)

No problem.


Ok, while we are draining the oil, let's pull the lifters and store them in order. Now, lets flip this puppy over and get this pan off:



http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20033_zps5iib37kj.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20033_zps5iib37kj.jpg.html)

Now we are talking!

[SuperNovaSS]

Here is the crank number. It is a 6223. This crank was used in 396 engines and 427 engines. However, the L88 crank is a 7115. Not looking good for an L88.

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20034_zpsqmcbgesq.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20034_zpsqmcbgesq.jpg.html)

The rods are the dimple units with 3/8 bolts:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20037_zpsbakwuc59.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20037_zpsbakwuc59.jpg.html)


The piston numbers will tell us what the engine is. Unfortunately, I could not get a clear picture of them for this thread. The piston number is 3888304. It is a GM forged piston made by TRW. This piston was used in L-71 427/435HP and L-72 427/425HP engines. Mystery solved, this is a 427/425HP shortblock. The investigation is no over yet though, let's keep looking:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20035_zpsaqudlt9p.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20035_zpsaqudlt9p.jpg.html)

Balanced rotating assembly. Who knows if this was done when the shortblock was brand new or after the valves hitting some of the pistons.

Original oil pump:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20046_zpswjeyktio.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20046_zpswjeyktio.jpg.html)

I've never seen this modification:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20045_zpswvxmvv5w.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20045_zpswvxmvv5w.jpg.html)


Assembly stamp:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20043_zps6hgpziny.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20043_zps6hgpziny.jpg.html)


Casting date:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20042_zpsg10mlnh5.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20042_zpsg10mlnh5.jpg.html)


Assembly mark:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20040_zpsltwb2kvi.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20040_zpsltwb2kvi.jpg.html)

[SuperNovaSS]

Original non locking motor mounts:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20031_zps80pbu6kb.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20031_zps80pbu6kb.jpg.html)


Small balancer with cover for large balancer:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20047_zpsfg7nl6tb.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20047_zpsfg7nl6tb.jpg.html)

Let's get that timing cover off:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20052_zps3ufljcni.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20052_zps3ufljcni.jpg.html)

Hmm, I'm surprised that nylon gear timing chain is still there. Maybe the original cam is still there.

Well, the lifters are already out. Let's pull the cam out and see:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20053_zpssmetmy7x.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20053_zpssmetmy7x.jpg.html)

Nope, the bump stick was changed but they left the nylon gear timing set. Interesting.

Here is a piston after soaking in WD-40 for a little while anhd being wiped with a rag:



http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20056_zpswy4wjorx.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20056_zpswy4wjorx.jpg.html)

And a cylinder after the cylinders were lubed and the rotating assembly was turned a few times:


http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20055_zpsvawsrkc0.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20055_zpsvawsrkc0.jpg.html)



I think that is all I have for you. My conclusion is this was a hot rod engine that was in who knows what and was used very little.


Thanks for looking,

Jason

[Tracker1]

Nice score!

[willie71]

the ce code means its a creat enterance motor/the original motor was replaced by the dealership/either over the counter or more likley the motor blew up under warrenty/thats why you dont see and parcial serial numbers on the tab either

[SuperNovaSS]

Thanks. I believe CE means Chevrolet Engine. The CE engines were used for warranty replacements, service replacements, over the counter short blocks, long blocks, and fitted blocks I believe. My guess is this was a hot rodders brain child that was bought at a dealer parts counter.

Jason

[earntaz]

Nylon timing gear -- there was a theory the nylon gear would not transmit crankshaft torsional vibrations to the cam ... rumor is Da' Grump ran nylon gears.

Maybe someone else here nows different of more on this ... TAZ

[Tracker1]

CE - Chevrolet Engine, yes - the 9 after the CE means 1969

Does the over-the-counter M20 have a CT stamping (Chevrolet Transmission) on it? Is it CT9 ?

[SuperNovaSS]

Yes, the trans is a CT9 M20.


Jason

[bbbentley]

Interesting that it is a 439 casting with a 69 usage (warranty usage) and not a 512.
I have just one question... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/Can-I-Have-It.gif

[SuperNovaSS]

You can have it if I can have some cash in exchange. I bought this along with a bunch of other parts to get a few pieces I could use. I paid up for this engine simply to satisfy my curiousity about what was inside. Thank goodness it wasn't grenaded.


Here is the trans for those who wanted to see it:

[SuperNovaSS]

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20057_zpsx1vbnlur.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20057_zpsx1vbnlur.jpg.html)

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Mystery427%20058_zpskey2ldkh.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/super-novass/media/Mystery427%20058_zpskey2ldkh.jpg.html)

[RALLY]

Thanks Nova SS. Great pictures on that engine and the factory cast part numbers. Appreciate going the extra mile and helping me out.

[RALLY]

earntaz, i have heard different on the nylon gear. Jerry MacNeish the Camaro expert told me to stay away from these nylon gear spockets. When they failed its lights out for the motor. I use the steel gears for peace of mind. I had a factory set and sold them on ebay. I personally wouldnt use one.

[njsteve]

Same here. You're talking about half century old plastic. It is way beyond its useable life span even for an NOS sprocket.

[earntaz]

I use steel also -- I was just pointing out that certain racers would use the nylon gears for various reasons -- one was Bill Jenkins.

[njsteve]

Way back then, they were new parts! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif

[luzl78]

I have a nos timing set for the 67-69 z28. It is the hd wide gears and chain. Should I not use it? I believe the box date is late 80's.

[njsteve]

Is it a nylon or full steel gear?

I am a fan of using modern internal parts when it comes to building engines. No show judge will ever know that you have improved the internals. Metalurgy has come a long way in half a century or so.

[luzl78]

Nylon gear.

[luzl78]

Do you think the nylon has been compromised? Box was just opened.

[njsteve]

Just from the age I still wouldn't use a nylon gear.

[luzl78]

Anybody need a nos hd extra wide timing chain and gears for the 302?

[cook_dw]

Looks like the engine had a little P to V clearance issues on the exhaust side which is common with high compression and larger cam. I would never install a nylon geared timing set on an engine. The nylon can strip under load.. I would not take the risk.

[njsteve]

Those nylon gears were a big problem back in the day. (yeah, I'm old). I remember the first cold day of the season and you'd get several pontiac owners getting their cars towed in for timing chain jobs. One good backfire and the gear would strip chunks of nylon off. If you were lucky the engine would not restart. Otherwise those pieces would make their way to the oil pan and fully clog the oil pickup. After a timing chain job, the better mechanics would always pull the pan and clean out the sump area and pickup to get the debris out.

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/scholar.gif

P.S. I love these forensic tear down threads. Keep going!

[LIBoomer]

X2 on Pontiac nylon gears. Boy that brings back some memories!

[Damien]

Great thread Jason. Thanks for posting. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

[SuperNovaSS]

My pleasure. I will try to do it more often.


Jason

[JBALL]

I like the tear down threads!

Thanks for posting.