Muscle cars + classic car collecting

[black69]

I am curious on how many out there, that collect muscle cars, also have a desire for cool 2 door 'big size' classic cars. I know station wagons have already caught on, and everyone seems to dig those. I have been asking my wife to let me get a big 2 door ride, and she has said no no no no to my desires to get a 71 riviera, or a 67 toronado, etc, but she finally said <span style="font-weight: bold">YES</span> yesterday to looking at 67 eldorados.

I got this feeling I am the odd one in the muscle car bunch...probably depends on what cars you were around in the 60s and 70s...and your age.

Here is the car that got her to reconsider:
http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo29/xxxblack69/707_main_l_zpsee6btam7.jpg (http://s358.photobucket.com/user/xxxblack69/media/707_main_l_zpsee6btam7.jpg.html)

[L78steve]

When I see them out on the road I like. They are comfy compared to muscle cars. The resale may be tricky so buy right.
My buddy has a 70 black Pontiac GP with the HO 455. Love that car.

[Pat_Dilling]

I would love to have an early to mid 60s Cadillac. I want fins, but not giant ones like 59-60. Coupe d' ville or convertible would be my choice. Sadly no room in the garage, have to settle for my 68 Biscayne.

[enio45]

I love the Riveria line of cars....mid 60's to the 70 boat tails.

I don't have any in my collection, but i do have several late model el caminos and a few italian cars.

[mockingbird812]

love the 67 Eldorados - classic look. My brother-in-law has one and it just exudes 60's coolness! Good luck!

[442w30]

A '67 Eldorado is as sweet as any muscle car during the era. Not many American cars better-looking than that - up there with the '63-65 Riv and '68-69 Charger, among others.

[olredalert]

----You and I think alike, Bob! I particularly like 66/67 Rivieras. One of GMs all time best designed cars. Id have one if I had a bit more storage. I agree with you about 67/70 Eldorados as well. And,,,a few of you guys know that I am also a 69 Grand Prix slappy. You may have seen mine at MCACN this year.......Bill S

[COPO]

Sharp car and looks terrific in black. Also like the SS 454 Montes in black. With all these, best to purchase restored as they just don't command prices that can support a high end restoration.

[Charley Lillard]

I love the big cars. I have 67 ford 427 car and just bought a 66 Bonneville. Eyes on a Toronado.

[PeteLeathersac]

Early 80's I had a '69 Eldo' for a while also a '69 Toro' plus a '71 98 Coupe.
Always wanted a W34 Toro' w/ the 442 bumper cutouts, especially a '70!
<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/burnout.gif
~ Pete

[tabooo]

Go for it Bob! Back in 1969, Friday night was street racing with my Camaro, Sat. night date night with the Eldo.

[GTO_DON]

It's funny how people put 69-72 grand prize and 70-72 Monte Carlos in with the big car category. They are on the same frames as chevelle and gtos. Just about 1 foot longer and the just about the same weight.
I personally like the big cars better than the rest.I've had some really cool ones.

[earntaz]

Had a 72’ Tornado – the wife called it the Nimitz … was excellent in the snow with that four double nickel sittin' in the nose! TAZ

[Billohio]

I drug this home a year ago. It wasnt running well enough for any driving but looking forward to when it will. At least looking forward when its back together! Its a beast and a mile long. Crossram 413 with a push button cast iron transmission. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/12/full-13064-36373-rps20150812_215240.jpg

[earntaz]

Bill -- I don't care what the kids say ... THAT is HEAVY METAL. TAZ

[Craig_Maiorana]

That Eldo is sexy.. I'd gladly take a 66 / 67 toronado ... We used to have one that we took from jersey to Albany (turning stone resort) we would do 85 up the NY through way with the ac blasting like it wasn't no thing

[black69]

Here is the one big 2 door survivor I 'had', but I sold it to help pay for my 67 hemi gtx. It was really tough to see it get picked up. My wife and I did a lot of cruising in it, no worries about overheating, or where to get racing gas, just a nice and smooth ride. Yep, I am ready for a black 67 eldo now....for restoring 'balance'.

http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo29/xxxblack69/goodstufftokeep/100-0015_IMG_2.jpg (http://s358.photobucket.com/user/xxxblack69/media/goodstufftokeep/100-0015_IMG_2.jpg.html)

[njsteve]

Here's our family classic - given to my Grandfather by his company, as a retirement gift in 1971.

(Gets far worse gas mileage than any musclecar I have ever owned. 6mpg highway) <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/12/full-1359-36378-p1000994.jpg

[Craig_Maiorana]

That thing is a block and a half long <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/3gears.gif

[njsteve]

It's longer than my Suburban and wider than a traffic lane!

[Craig_Maiorana]

And bigger than a parking spot ... That'd be fun to have here in California. I would purposely park it in spots marked for &quot;compact&quot; cars just to watch them steam
<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/mad.gif

[SupremeDeluxe]

This was my summer daily driver for awhile, and had several later big Cads as well. 69-70 Deville convertibles are my favorite.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c226/nick_liarakos/1969%20Deville%20Convertible/1969Deville9-22-09015.jpg (http://s28.photobucket.com/user/nick_liarakos/media/1969%20Deville%20Convertible/1969Deville9-22-09015.jpg.html)

[Billohio]

Steve that thing looks clean. has it had much done to it?

[RAIIIT/A]

I like big cars and prefer them over a GM A-body as they have more leg room... and are just cooler and more unusual. I currently have a '67 Grand Prix..... 400 4 speed manual steering and brakes... original paint... 77,000 original miles. Also have a '67 Catalina convertible.. 428.. hood tach...

[njsteve]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Billohio</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Steve that thing looks clean. has it had much done to it? </div></div>

Here's the whole skinny on the big car.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthrea...-a-l#Post539151 (http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/539151/oh-lordy-i-now-own-a-fordy-a-l#Post539151)

[sixt9rsx33]

I once had a 64 Caddy de Ville convertible. It was an old parade car that had 26K miles on it when I got it. Came equipped with parade horns. The car had no ac but power windows, brakes, steering,power top. but no seat belts. A true parade car. It had one repaint in white with black leather. That car was so well built it was crazy. The amount of sound deadening in the carpet, the width of the doors were remarkable. It cruised so well. My girls were in junior high school when I owned it and played soccer. My wife use to load up the car with 7 girls and run car pool. But only after I sourced some original seat belts <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/wink.gif I hated to see it go but moved on to other cars. I did enjoy that big ole boat. And it is funny how many people ask me about that car.

[442w30]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I love the big cars. I have 67 ford 427 car and just bought a 66 Bonneville. Eyes on a Toronado. </div></div>

What's the stats on the Bonneville?

[Charley Lillard]

421,tripower, 4 speed Transistor ignition, heavy duty frame, 373,black with white interior. Needs resto. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/12/full-23-36437-tn_2.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/12/full-23-36438-tn_3.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/12/full-23-36439-tn_5.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/12/full-23-36440-tn_7.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/12/full-23-36441-tn_8.jpg

[GTO_DON]

That's a cool one!

[olredalert]

----Charley,,,Neat piece! Is it an &quot;HO&quot;? That would add a bit of value.....Bill S

[442w30]

I think any Tri-Power 421 has value, HO or otherwise. I know of a silver HO 4-speed that used to be in MI but don't know where it is now. It's actually a dream car of mine. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/drool.gif

[olredalert]

----I agree with you, but HOs are rarer and the top dog. Sort of like the 427/435 Corvette of the big-body Pontiac world, while the regular 421 with trips would equate to the 427/400 in a Corvette. JMHO!.....Bill S

[1967Z28]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">421,tripower, 4 speed Transistor ignition, heavy duty frame, 373,black with white interior. Needs resto.</div></div>

Wow! Very cool car, Charley.

[442w30]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: olredalert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">----I agree with you, but HOs are rarer and the top dog. Sort of like the 427/435 Corvette of the big-body Pontiac world, while the regular 421 with trips would equate to the 427/400 in a Corvette. JMHO!...</div></div>

But aren't 427/400 Vettes the rarest of the street 427s?

I don't have access to my numbers, but 421/356 cars sometimes are rarer than HOs, I believe. Regardless of engine, I want Charlie to think of me when he decides he's sick of Pontiacs. :-)

[Charley Lillard]

Also has a power trunk release. Guy ordered the car to have something different he could drag race but also sold Encyclopedias out of the trunk and hated fishing for his keys in the rain.

[442w30]

The GM Heritage Center has a lot of unpublished info on Pontiacs, but unfortunately no info on 1966 Pontiacs like this - a shame.

However, I have seen their 1967 numbers (which are for the 421's replacement, the 428) and it's interesting to note that the top engines were more popular on the Bonneville than the Catalina, 2+2 excepted. Prob is analogous to the number of L-36 427 Caprices you see versus basic Impalas, Bel Airs, and Biscaynes (at least from my observation).

I don't know if I have digital pics of the silver HO Bonnie I've seen as I'm overseas at the moment, but it has been to the Pure Stock races a few times over the years - prob been 10 years since I've seen it.

[66 L78 ragtop]

I love big cars also. I have 2 66 Impala SS 396 4 speed convertibles. One with factory A/C. I also have a 3rd car with the same options but in a hard top.

Great family cruisers.

[markinnaples]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SupremeDeluxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This was my summer daily driver for awhile, and had several later big Cads as well. 69-70 Deville convertibles are my favorite.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c226/nick_liarakos/1969%20Deville%20Convertible/1969Deville9-22-09015.jpg (http://s28.photobucket.com/user/nick_liarakos/media/1969%20Deville%20Convertible/1969Deville9-22-09015.jpg.html) </div></div>

Nice car. My parents had a dark green/black '70 Coupe de Ville when I was a kid that my dad redid. Man, we all loved that car and it was just such a great family cruiser. I'd love to find another decent one just to take my mom for a ride again. Thanks for the great memories.

[Big Block Bill]

1966 Toronado I pulled out of Gold Run California 2 years ago. I am the 3rd. owner. It still has the Original exhaust system on it dated 10 65. It just turned 50 years old last month. I am waiting 3 months for the engine to come back from the rebuilder, we had to have a set of pistons custom made. Only fit 1966 &amp; 1966 425 Toronado's. 2 tons+ of GM engineering @ it's finest.

Bill http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/12/full-1643-36466-photo.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/12/full-1643-36467-img_2110.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/12/full-1643-36468-img_2112.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/12/full-1643-36469-img_2120.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/12/full-1643-36470-img_2113.jpg

[Craig_Maiorana]

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/haha.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/worship.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/Can-I-Have-It.gif

[njsteve]

I love those pop up headlight Toronados! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

[Charley Lillard]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/12/full-23-36505-img_20140601_174659399_hdr.jpg

[Astock]

LA to Vegas would still be a lot of fun in that baby, let alone back in the day. We had a 1968 Sedan Deville back then for Vegas... last year for stacked headlights.

[markinnaples]

Wow, Charley, were there any options they didn't get?

[Charley Lillard]

No power windows, locks etc.

[markinnaples]

Interesting. Can't wait to see it done.

[olredalert]

----That would be a strong Pontiac done, Charley! My old 64 Grand prix sold for $99,900 about a year and a half ago at a Mecum auction in California to give you an idea what these cars are capable of. Unfortunatly, it was long after I sold it for $50,000......Bill S

[black69]

Love these cars!

I am at the moment trying to educate myself on the Toronado and Eldo's transmissions (chain drive?) and how they could handle so much torque (in some cases well over 500 ft-lbs, I think even more that what I thought was the king of the hill, 70 buick GSX!). That's got to be one hell of a chain!

[Billohio]

dug out some pictures of the 300 G interior. It has power seats but the buckets are on a track that goes under the console and you move the driver's seat and thru a cable, the passenger seat does the http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/12/full-13064-36531-rps20151222_110232.jpg
same. Rear is pictured with console also. the dash is lit up by transformer that causes the speedometer needle to glow and its reflected off the numbers which are porcelain. Carbs were restored by our own Eric http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/12/full-13064-36532-rps20151222_110320.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/12/full-13064-36533-rps20151222_110440.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/12/full-13064-36534-rps20151222_131234.jpg

[sixt9rsx33]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Billohio</div><div class="ubbcode-body">dug out some pictures of the 300 G interior. It has power seats but the buckets are on a track that goes under the console and you move the driver's seat and thru a cable, the passenger seat does the http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/12/full-13064-36531-rps20151222_110232.jpg
same. Rear is pictured with console also. the dash is lit up by transformer that causes the speedometer needle to glow and its reflected off the numbers which are porcelain. Carbs were restored by our own Eric http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/12/full-13064-36532-rps20151222_110320.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/12/full-13064-36533-rps20151222_110440.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/12/full-13064-36534-rps20151222_131234.jpg
</div></div>

Totally outrageous...

[Big Block Bill]

It's amazing anyone could walk into a dealer back in the day and buy anyone of these vehicles. Call me old, but I miss those days. Merry Christmas everyone!

Bill

[Ken Riebel]

Mike Ardito owned that Bonneville. I am a bit surprised that he sold it.

[Charley Lillard]

Mike had it for over 20 years.

[Ken Riebel]

I owned and restored the Silver (Platinum) Bonneville Diego spoke of. While not as loaded up as the one you have, I was a wonderful car. Do you plan on a full resto?

[442w30]

Nice to see you Ken! :-)

[Charley Lillard]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ken Riebel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I owned and restored the Silver (Platinum) Bonneville Diego spoke of. While not as loaded up as the one you have, I was a wonderful car. Do you plan on a full resto? </div></div>

Yep...I'll probably be very upside down in it but sometimes you just gotta....

[Tenney]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No power windows, locks etc. </div></div>

But still plenty seaworthy - nice boat! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

[StealthBird]

Hey Charley, contact me at [email protected] if you'd like to obtain an accurate version of a 1966 window sticker.
That appears to be a PHS version you have, lots of issues on that one. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

Mike

[John]

... This is pretty neat... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/3gears.gif


1964 Buick riviera - Original 425 V8 car (http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/rds/cto/5338063366.html)

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

[Charley Lillard]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StealthBird</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Charley, contact me at [email protected] if you'd like to obtain an accurate version of a 1966 window sticker.
That appears to be a PHS version you have, lots of issues on that one. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

Mike </div></div>

I like the PHS one. There is no mistaking it for a real one...

[Billohio]

did some of the Rivieras have hide away headlights? was it an option or a year made deal?

[442w30]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Billohio</div><div class="ubbcode-body">did some of the Rivieras have hide away headlights? was it an option or a year made deal? </div></div>

Rivs had hidden headlights from 1965-69.

[StealthBird]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StealthBird</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Charley, contact me at [email protected] if you'd like to obtain an accurate version of a 1966 window sticker.
That appears to be a PHS version you have, lots of issues on that one. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

Mike </div></div>

I like the PHS one. There is no mistaking it for a real one... </div></div>

Charley, the PHS ones are very inaccurate, and are easily discernible from an original window sticker.

Here's an original 1966 window sticker for comparison. You can see the font on the PHS version is wrong, the line spacing and character spacing are wrong, and it's missing details like the tax line at the bottom. Also, look at the boxes just below the area around the &quot;MANUFACTURER'S SUGGESTED RETAIL PRICE&quot; line verses the original. PHS used a 1968 form for your 1966. The closer you look, the more differences you'll see, like the &quot;FINAL ASSEMBLY POINT&quot; being in the wrong place, etc.

We do extremely accurate and detailed window stickers for show winning, concourse level Pontiacs. Much of our business comes from people that already had a PHS window sticker, but they want an accurate one with all the correct details.

For more info, and to see feedback people have posted, please take a look at my website in my signature. We had 8 Pontiacs displaying one of our window stickers at the MCACN show this year, as well as having them on Pontiacs that have won POCI and GTOAA top level awards. Among some of the rare cars we've done window stickers for are 5 RAII Firebirds, a real 1969 TA convertible, 31 Judges and GTO's (1969-1971), and I just finished one for a Scott Tiemann 1965 GTO. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

[Tenney]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Billohio</div><div class="ubbcode-body">did some of the Rivieras have hide away headlights? was it an option or a year made deal? </div></div>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d612coV5AVA

[black69]

The only way I would think those more accurate window stickers are ok, would be if there is something in the paper stock that makes it obvious it is a fake. Maybe on the back, there is a light stamping of reproduction, that does not bleed to the front.
Or make the overall size 5-10% off from what a correct one is. Nobody would generally tell that difference at a car show, but when authenticated, it becomes an easy detection method. Right now, I am not a fan of what I am seeing being done. The non PHS one looks too real.

[StealthBird]

I think there's a misunderstanding here. The example I posted above IS an original 1966 window sticker compared to a PHS reproduction, not to one of our reproductions. I was merely using this as an example to show that PHS ones are inaccurate, in response to the earlier comment that &quot;PHS ones look correct&quot;.

The window stickers we make http://www.musclecarfilms.com/PontiacWindowSticker.html simply have all the details that the PHS ones lack. Our reproductions could NEVER be confused with an original window sticker. We're simply bringing a better, more accurate reproduction to the hobby. It's no different than when poor quality, inaccurate reproduction parts are offered, and it sometimes takes years before someone steps up and makes a better, more accurate reproduction. That's what we did. Pontiac people have been disappointed with PHS versions, and we're raising the bar for quality and accuracy. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

[black69]

Back on the 'big car' topic, I was at my neighbor's house yesterday (original hemi cuda owner), and he definitely likes the big cars. I shot a few pics of what he is up to. He is helping me with an engine for a vette.

What is suprising to me, is that I think GM maybe copied some ideas from Chrysler when I look at his car. His 57? desoto has a <span style="font-style: italic">subframe just like a camaro or chevelle</span>, and it has a VIN stamp right by the heaterbox. I dont think GM or ford had a subrame concept in practice this early.


http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo29/xxxblack69/IMG_27711_zpsj2j4hinw.jpg (http://s358.photobucket.com/user/xxxblack69/media/IMG_27711_zpsj2j4hinw.jpg.html)
http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo29/xxxblack69/IMG_27671_zpsxh2xbdvw.jpg (http://s358.photobucket.com/user/xxxblack69/media/IMG_27671_zpsxh2xbdvw.jpg.html)
http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo29/xxxblack69/IMG_27781_zpsvqcj7ggp.jpg (http://s358.photobucket.com/user/xxxblack69/media/IMG_27781_zpsvqcj7ggp.jpg.html)
http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo29/xxxblack69/IMG_27701_zpsouwgge21.jpg (http://s358.photobucket.com/user/xxxblack69/media/IMG_27701_zpsouwgge21.jpg.html)

[Billohio]

my 61 300G has a subframe. The rear attaches in a trough.I was surprised a big car was built like this. I am about ready to pull mine from under the body and get it cleaned up

[black69]

Yeah I have to wonder if Chrysler had a patent on the front subframe and GM was eyeing it to do past a 7 yr timeframe when a patent expires. Sorry to have included the chevelle in my earlier post, I can only think of the camaro as having a front subframe at the moment.

I got the thumbs up/sideways from the wife on buying the triple black project eldo below. Plan would be to pitch the front wheel drive trans, and run a corvette torque tube right through the car (not too big of a hole in fire wall, structure of the body stays intact), and put the 84 and up corvette rear end (subframe) in it. That idea is not mine, it came from a friend. He said to put a paddle shifter in it, I would want a 4 speed on the floor, linking up to the corvette trans in the back. She definitely likes the looks of the triple black eldo all done, so thats good for me at the moment, to get my big car fix.

http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo29/xxxblack69/IMG_26561_zpsksql2cxc.jpg (http://s358.photobucket.com/user/xxxblack69/media/IMG_26561_zpsksql2cxc.jpg.html)

[markinnaples]

Sounds like a wild project, cool.

[442w30]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: black69</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
What is suprising to me, is that I think GM maybe copied some ideas from Chrysler when I look at his car. His 57? desoto has a <span style="font-style: italic">subframe just like a camaro or chevelle</span>, and it has a VIN stamp right by the heaterbox. I dont think GM or ford had a subrame concept in practice this early.
</div></div>

From the pics, that's a 1961 Chrysler, which is a Unibody. Chrysler Corp started with this in 1960 (save Imperial, which joined in '61, I believe).

[black69]

Agreed, its a unibody with front subframe. GM appears to not have done this in a similiar configuration until the camaro and nova, 7 yrs later. If you are a GM guy, you got to give props to Chrysler showing it could be done first.

[Billohio]

Bob whats your friend doing with that car? the firewall heater box hole is alot bigger than my Chrysler, did it have air? Looks like hes done some suspension work too

[black69]

He wants the firewall clean and flat and thus mounted the master cylinder sideways under the dash, as well as the modern new airconditioning unit. He hacked out alot of what was there, so who knows if the car originally had air, I doubt it did. He will just weld in a flat piece to cover all that stuff.

He did say, if he had it to do over again, he would have put the original subframe to the side, and adapt a camaro subframe to get coil overs and disk brakes, but its too late now as he has put that on the original.

[442w30]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: black69</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If you are a GM guy, you got to give props to Chrysler showing it could be done first.
</div></div>

Wasn't the Corvair Unibody?

Citroen did it in 1934. Giving props to Chrysler would be a mistake.

[black69]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 442w30</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: black69</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If you are a GM guy, you got to give props to Chrysler showing it could be done first.
</div></div>

Wasn't the Corvair Unibody?

Citroen did it in 1934. Giving props to Chrysler would be a mistake. </div></div>

Yes the corvair is a unibody, it also used a rear subframe and carried a light little engine, an all this happened in 1960, same time as Chrysler. My point was as far as mounting a large heavy V8 engine using a substantial subframe to a unibody shell, <span style="font-style: italic">out in front</span>, appears to me atleast to have been done by Chrysler first in 1960. I also dont think the rear subframe of a corvair had to work as hard supporting any body components, if at all.

GM would have had no other example to look at when they designed the Camaro to hold a 396/427, other than a Chrysler. I could be wrong. I really never knew this myself, until the other day, and I do have a Camaro <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

[69SSZL1]

1961 saw the Oldsmobile F85 unibody, Pontiac Tempest/Lemans, Buick Skylark, all V8s. All with removable front sub frames.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r206/OAKLYSS/1963%20Jetfire/IMG_0692_zps22kmx7rj.jpg (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/OAKLYSS/media/1963%20Jetfire/IMG_0692_zps22kmx7rj.jpg.html)

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r206/OAKLYSS/1963%20Jetfire/DSC01439%201024x740_zpsbshwl8kh.jpg (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/OAKLYSS/media/1963%20Jetfire/DSC01439%201024x740_zpsbshwl8kh.jpg.html)

[black69]

Cool! I didn't know that. Looks like alternatives to a full frame for a front engine car were all taking form in 60-61.
Btw, that engine you have is wicked!

[442w30]

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif