VITAR COPO protecto plate on eBay

[Tarrytown SS427s]

I'd imagine the current owner would love to have this. Or the free pictures anyway..

eBay link (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-COPO-Camaro-Vitar-Engineering-Original-Protecto-Plate-/291721760608?hash=item43ebf8cf60:g:o~EAAOSwGYVW-I5W&vxp=mtr)

[ban617]

I think Herb is nuts $5,000 for a protecto plate....

[Mr70]

VIN# 124379N615318

[HawkX66]

Do you really think he wants $5k for it or is he just pricing it out of reach for the clone makers? He might be hoping the real owner contacts him. Just trying to give someone the benefit of the doubt...

[Charley Lillard]

He states he is looking for the current owner. Pretty cool and it should add value. I'm sure some kind of deal can be made.

[mockingbird812]

If you read it (I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt) it looks like he is using ebay to track the current owner down (and not just anyone with casual or nepharious sp? interest). Hopefully he will do so and ask only a nominal fee to reunite the POP with the current owner.

[MosportGreen66]

I hate the idea of purchasing documentation from prior owners - the principle makes me sick... documentation held hostage from the car purely for $. Being said, I have paid for the original documentation in two different instances for two different of my cars. It is a part of the hobby. I hope seller/buyer here can come to a price point that unites the paper with the car!

[RPOLS3]

Maybe Stefano can help - here is the thread when he owned it.

Vitar thread (http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/469828/1)

[Tracker1]

I look at it like an original part of the car - if it was the original BE rear for 10k I'd buy it. Same with paper - it's just another part. Just because it's made of paper (or small metal) doesn't make it worthless.

[black69]

I dont think that value being asked is out of line if a car had no documentation. If it added 10% to a 150K car, that would be 15K. He is only asking 3-4 percent really. Look what an auction company gets on both sides of a transaction, and you go after this guy for a measely 3%? I think its a fair ask.

[ssl78]

Probably would not add much value since it is already a known copo and also a race car. It would be nice for the owner of the car to get it fov a reasonable price.

[Charley Lillard]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MosportGreen66</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I hate the idea of purchasing documentation from prior owners - the principle makes me sick... documentation held hostage from the car purely for $. Being said, I have paid for the original documentation in two different instances for two different of my cars. It is a part of the hobby. I hope seller/buyer here can come to a price point that unites the paper with the car! </div></div>

He is not a prior owner of the car. It was with paperwork for another car that he owned.

[rts]

On certain corvettes paperwork, adds 1/3 of the value like on L-88's for instance!!
Cant see how the paper work at 5k is crazy, if it were my car I would pay that price in a second!!!

[SS427]

I agree, it is a shame when items are used as a hostage especially when a car is in a private collection. However and that being said, if a car is being put together for the sole purpose of reselling it (which people will seldom admit to when you are helping them out) for a nice profit then it is only fair that the supplier of such material that helps make the car that much more valuable only share in the profits. I know of one such person who helped the owner of a very rare car. He supplied the owner with a ton of documentation, photographs, historical information, previous owner information, time, etc only to watch the car sell for a HUGE profit and a record sale at that only to receive nothing from the owner/seller in the end other than a thank you. THAT made me sick especially considering the amount of time the individual spent helping the owner out. I too have helped many people with documentation, photos, technical advice, etc only to see a car sell for huge profits and never get anything more than a thank you. I only have myself to blame since I don't ask for it up front and only assume that people would offer after the car sells but I certainly can understand selling documentation that has been found that will greatly increase the value of a car. In some cases I have made deals where I supply the material with the agreement that I share a percentage of the profits in the end albeit a very small percentage. A gamble for both parties but a win/win for both if it sells for good profits. Only problem there is you are once again relying on the honor system. j/m/o

[MosportGreen66]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He is not a prior owner of the car. It was with paperwork for another car that he owned. </div></div>

Pardon... I'm in Europe on business and did not have a moment to read the full eBay ad. I gather the seller is trying to reunited the POP with the car but being said, what's stopping someone who doesn't own the car from clicking the BIN? I commend his effort but the price would not preclude outsiders from being interested in it?

[Stefano]

What a Kool find all these years later. Nice to see that the POP survived.

I spoke to Vinny about the car before he passed. Nice guy and he confirmed the selling dealer and told me the story of ordering the car and driving it back to his shop to to start hopping it up.

I purchased a Z28 from Dr. Kim's estate a while back and Jeff Chlpusa found a copy of a POP imprint in one of the Camaro books he purchased out of the estate. He charged me Zero for his help as well as the document. We were able to confirm the car by finding the original owner, based on just a copy of that imprint.

[the427king]

For the owner of the car, having the ad of the pop is documentation in itself.

[black69]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: the427king</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the owner of the car, having the ad of the pop is documentation in itself. </div></div>

That is very true. I would negotiate with the guy with the protecto plate, splitting the difference in the value gain.

I would pitch the after tax gain down the road of $10K, play up you have a tax liability for a gain at an auction. Get the guy down to ~1/3 split considering you got the car, he has the doc. I can see getting this protecto plate for $3K in cash, especially since he posted very nice pics on ebay, which hurt is negotiating position some.

[x77-69z28]

I have that same envelope from H.M.Williams. The second owner dropped it off at my house a couple of years ago after I contacted him trying to find the original owner. Unfortunately, the P-O-P was not in the envelope! He is still looking around for it. Very cool piece. If it was my car,I would probably sell a body part and buy it.
Buddy

[TAR6569]

I just reunited a 66 Impala SS396 with it's original protectoplate. Sold it to the current owner for a very reasonable price. He was happy to get it. I made a little of it. Nice to finally match one to a car!

[HawkX66]

Bah. If I had a pop or paperwork for someone's car and they seemed like a decent person and they weren't just looking to flip the car for profit, I'd give it to them.

[DW31S]

I don't really see where the P-O-P adds significant value to this particular car. The car is well-known already and the early history has been substantiated and proven. Would it be neat to have it reunited with the car? Certainly, but will it add to the value of the car? I really don't think it will add that great of a percentage of price at this point. I've been wrong before, and I might be here; if the car had just been discovered my outlook would be different.

[Steve Shauger]

If I could add documentation and provenance to any of my cars I would go ahead and purchase it. I've never sold any documentation, but to me it's very important document that belongs with the car. I'm not here to judge the seller, but it is a kool find.

I've been on a mission to find the original owner and GM documentation on my orange rs/z and if someone came along with what is being advertised I'd have owned it by now.

[HawkX66]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: paceme</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I could add documentation and provenance to any of my cars I would go ahead and purchase it. I've never sold any documentation, but to me it's very important document that belongs with the car. I'm not here to judge the seller, but it is a kool find.

I've been on a mission to find the original owner and GM documentation on my orange rs/z and if someone came along with what is being advertised I'd have owned it by now. </div></div>
I agree Steve. I'd love to have the POP or other docs for my SS. I'd buy them also. I'm not judging the seller in this case as I think he's just using eBay as a locater tool. I'm just saying what I would do.

[TAR6569]

Buy it now was changed to $8,000

[olredalert]

----I think the seller is watching this sight!!!!!.....Bill S

[HawkX66]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: olredalert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">----I think the seller is watching this sight!!!!!.....Bill S</div></div>
I'd be surprised if he wasn't. He obviously knows what he has. The higher the price, the more talk, the more likely he is to get the word to the owner.

[Charley Lillard]

Before I was all for him...Now he can choke on it.

[black69]

I have to wonder how much hard documentation exists on that orange car, other than this POP.
The only hard doc I have on my camaro is it's POP, and pics of it early in its life. I would be screwed without that POP.

[BLACKLS5]

With all the knowledge and connections on this site I'm shocked no one knows who the current owner is.

[Kurt S]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Before I was all for him...Now he can choke on it. </div></div>
Really unclear if that's the real price or if that's the price to keep non-owners from buying it.....

[68l30]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kurt S</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Before I was all for him...Now he can choke on it. </div></div>
Really unclear if that's the real price or if that's the price to keep non-owners from buying it..... </div></div>

Yep, &quot;could&quot; be to prevent some capitalist from just flippin a POP.... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif


BIG

[m22mike]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 68l30</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kurt S</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Before I was all for him...Now he can choke on it. </div></div>
Really unclear if that's the real price or if that's the price to keep non-owners from buying it..... </div></div>

Yep, &quot;could&quot; be to prevent some capitalist from just flippin a POP.... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif


BIG </div></div>

Agree.

[PeteLeathersac]

Kudos to those who freely offer original POP's etc that enhance values of these special cars!
That said, those offering items for a price aren't wrong regardless of amount also many sellers not necessarily viewing situations the same as someone here may?
Is a seller advertising an original VIN stamped Muncie really different than one offering THE original POP, especially being how an original POP vehicle w/ admitted replacement trans may be worth more than one similar w/ original trans but no POP?
Considering all including other comments posted, the right/wrong also monetary value is really up to individual circumstances including vehicles/items/buyers/sellers plus best keep in mind actual sale $ may vastly differ from asking prices once vehicle and owner are located?
<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif
~ Pete

[Ryan1969Chevelle]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PeteLeathersac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Kudos to those who freely offer original POP's etc that enhance values of these special cars!
That said, those offering items for a price aren't wrong regardless of amount also many sellers not necessarily viewing situations the same as someone here may?
Is a seller advertising an original VIN stamped Muncie really different than one offering THE original POP, especially being how an original POP vehicle w/ admitted replacement trans may be worth more than one similar w/ original trans but no POP?
Considering all including other comments posted, the right/wrong also monetary value is really up to individual circumstances including vehicles/items/buyers/sellers plus best keep in mind actual sale $ may vastly differ from asking prices once vehicle and owner are located?
<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif
~ Pete




</div></div>

I vote &quot;Pete for Prime Minister&quot;

:-)

Ryan

[Jonesy]

I dont really think his intent is to hold it hostage for $5000 or $8000. The price was put on it to hopefully keep someone from hitting the Buy it now. I think its more to get the word out that he has it.
You guys may be reading into this more than what the real story is.
Just my opinion.

[Charley Lillard]

Might be right and then I will have to take back my comment...

[Mr70]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jonesy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dont really think his intent is to hold it hostage for $5000 or $8000. The price was put on it to hopefully keep someone from hitting the Buy it now. I think its more to get the word out that he has it.
You guys may be reading into this more than what the real story is.
Just my opinion. </div></div>

If this is the case,why list it for only 5-8K?...Want to get the word out?,ask 2X,3X or even 4X that amount and watch how vastly it's shared around the internet.

[camaromb]

It seems lots of original paperwork gets help hostage on these rare expensive cars. Al Maynard bought a ZL1 Camaro years ago and never received the protect-o-plate with the car, it was offered to the next owner of the car for $ 5,000 from the guy Al bought the car from. I found the paperwork for the white Douglas Copo listed on Craigslist as &quot;Original Yenko paperwork,$100&quot;, of course when we put him together with the car owner the asking price was $ 5,000, seems to be the going rate for paperwork! I hope this protect-o-plate can make it to the current owner, without a high ransom fee.

[Craig_Maiorana]

Has anyone looked at the listing lately? He says right in it that he raised the price to keep scavengers from buying to make a killing off of it. He states that he wants to see it go back with the vehicle. I wonder what his real deal price is to the owner. I am shocked that nobody knows where the car has gotten off to.

[TAR6569]

I know some have purposely kept the docs to try to profit after they sell the car. Not the case here. But in those cases, if the docs came with the car when acquired by the owner, then they should either go with the car when sold or given to the new owner free if found later.

The POP I had found for that 66 Impala SS396: original 396 was long gone and no history was known. I paid $50 for it. Sold if for $150. Very reasonable. I'm sure others would have asked five times that, maybe even 10 times. I once had the loose POP plate to a 67 Camaro small block. I sent that to the current owner for free. Later I had the loose POP plate (no book) to a all original convertible L6 driver and I sold it to the owner for $50.

Since I paid for the items, I can't give them away for free but the little bit of profit I make recoups a tiny fraction of the amount of $ I have investing in acquiring all these docs. I'd never hold it for a kings ransom. I'd love to find more matches, it would help out both parties. I recently discovered that a 66 Impala SS 327 sold out of ILL that I have the shipper and broadcast sheets for is in the middle east! I've been trying to contact the owner of that car. Also an all original 68 Impala vert with docs wound up in Germany after being sold on ebay and I have the original invoice to the car. Tried to contact the dealership that sold it on ebay to get the buyer's contact info and they said send them the invoice and they will see what they can do. Wasn't going to take that chance. They might ask a crazy figure for it and my name would not get passed along to the new owner. The best part about completing the match is the reaction of the owner when he/she gets the document!

I still have the 2 page GMAC invoice to a 69 pace car that was sold at BJ a few years ago. Called up the consignor/dealer before the auction and he said it wouldn't really increase the value of the car and would only pay like $50. In that case, for a car of that pedigree with no docs or history, I would think it would increase the value quite a bit. It sold at auction but I haven't been able to track down the current owner.

[black69]

Based on the protecto plate issue date of 4/1, they will have to modify the story told on the car, that it was delivered new at the dealer on 3/18.
A minor detail ofcourse <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

The more I read about this car, it is a pretty significant COPO.

If herb got this POP with a camaro driven by one of the same racers that ran this orange COPO (if I read his ad right), I wonder what is this other car he may still have....hum. Maybe he as another COPO.

[Mr70]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: black69</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Based on the protecto plate issue date of 4/1,they will have to modify the story told on the car, that it was delivered new at the dealer on 3/18. </div></div>

It might be because the car was delivered on 3/18,and sat.
Then weeks later after it was purchased,the P-O-P was created by the Service Dept.and then showing the date it was created on of 4/1.

[DW31S]

Here is a thought: if the P-O-P owner's intent was solely to reunite said P-O-P with the Vitar car, then why not offer it here or other high-performance car sites. Maybe he/she/they did and I am unaware, but I don't think there was a thread like that here. I still say that the car is extremely well-known already and IMO, the P-O-P doesn't add a great percentage of monetary value........notice I said MONETARY VALUE.........cool factor? Absolutely, but I just don't see it raising the price of the car that much.

[COPO140]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DW31S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is a thought: if the P-O-P owner's intent was solely to reunite said P-O-P with the Vitar car, then why not offer it here or other high-performance car sites. Maybe he/she/they did and I am unaware, but I don't think there was a thread like that here. I still say that the car is extremely well-known already and IMO, the P-O-P doesn't add a great percentage of monetary value........notice I said MONETARY VALUE.........cool factor? Absolutely, but I just don't see it raising the price of the car that much. </div></div>

I tend to agree with this statement. When I found the car and had is restored, I was in touch with Vinny throughout the process even though his health was failing. Thanks to Ed Alessi, I was able to get a notarized statement and signature from Vinny stating the car was a factory 427/425. The car has other documentation as well and a nice photo history. The POP is not needed to prove its pedigree but I think it should be mated with the car at a nominal fee at best. Great car with great history. I have no idea where the car is now.

[Stefano]

The last time I heard of the Vitar COPO, it had been restored back to stock.

[Schonyenko2]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COPO140</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DW31S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is a thought: if the P-O-P owner's intent was solely to reunite said P-O-P with the Vitar car, then why not offer it here or other high-performance car sites. Maybe he/she/they did and I am unaware, but I don't think there was a thread like that here. I still say that the car is extremely well-known already and IMO, the P-O-P doesn't add a great percentage of monetary value........notice I said MONETARY VALUE.........cool factor? Absolutely, but I just don't see it raising the price of the car that much. </div></div>

I tend to agree with this statement. When I found the car and had is restored, I was in touch with Vinny throughout the process even though his health was failing. Thanks to Ed Alessi, I was able to get a notarized statement and signature from Vinny stating the car was a factory 427/425. The car has other documentation as well and a nice photo history. The POP is not needed to prove its pedigree but I think it should be mated with the car at a nominal fee at best. Great car with great history. I have no idea where the car is now. </div></div>

I'm confused. We did the restoration for Clint Richmond who found the car here in IA. It was white with Yenko stripes being very successfully raced. Your profile name is Tom Callahan. I don't remember you in the mix.

[SS427]

http://www.nickeyperformance.com/1969-chevrolet-camaro-copo-9561-l72-427/

[COPO140]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Schonyenko2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COPO140</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DW31S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is a thought: if the P-O-P owner's intent was solely to reunite said P-O-P with the Vitar car, then why not offer it here or other high-performance car sites. Maybe he/she/they did and I am unaware, but I don't think there was a thread like that here. I still say that the car is extremely well-known already and IMO, the P-O-P doesn't add a great percentage of monetary value........notice I said MONETARY VALUE.........cool factor? Absolutely, but I just don't see it raising the price of the car that much. </div></div>

I tend to agree with this statement. When I found the car and had is restored, I was in touch with Vinny throughout the process even though his health was failing. Thanks to Ed Alessi, I was able to get a notarized statement and signature from Vinny stating the car was a factory 427/425. The car has other documentation as well and a nice photo history. The POP is not needed to prove its pedigree but I think it should be mated with the car at a nominal fee at best. Great car with great history. I have no idea where the car is now. </div></div>

I'm confused. We did the restoration for Clint Richmond who found the car here in IA. It was white with Yenko stripes being very successfully raced. Your profile name is Tom Callahan. I don't remember you in the mix. </div></div>

Hey Ken, it's me:).

[COPO140]

Ken,
When I signed back up I was not sure Charlie would let me on. I sent him an email explaining it was me however I forgot to change the profile info. I have updated it now.

[leach]

Welcome back Clint now that you corrected the name. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/flag.gif

[COPO140]

Thank you, I have been watching the site for quite some time:).

[Schonyenko2]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COPO140</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ken,
When I signed back up I was not sure Charlie would let me on. I sent him an email explaining it was me however I forgot to change the profile info. I have updated it now. </div></div>

I see. I hope they haven't taken the car back to show room condition. It was a racecar/rolling research center for Vinny's transmissions. It had acid dipped, very thin frt fenders. Visit with Ed Hedrick sometime about the trans Vinny built. They were the best in the day.

[Ryan1969Chevelle]

I am sure it has been totally restored back to stock.

By memory, isn't it like a 250 mile car?

Ryan

[Schonyenko2]

That sounds right. People can do what they want with their cars. It's their choice. But when you have a car like this one, that Vinnie drove from the dealership, to his shop, and took it &quot;off the street&quot;, you've now changed the provence/history of the car. We remember this car for what it became under Vinnie's ownership. Not setting on the show room floor with dog dish hubcaps.To each their own, but I'd walk past 10 dog dished COPOs to see one like the Vitar in race prep. FWIW

[Ryan1969Chevelle]

Preach!!!

Me 2

Ryan

[1969l78]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Schonyenko2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That sounds right. People can do what they want with their cars. It's their choice. But when you have a car like this one, that Vinnie drove from the dealership, to his shop, and took it &quot;off the street&quot;, you've now changed the provence/history of the car. We remember this car for what it became under Vinnie's ownership. Not setting on the show room floor with dog dish hubcaps.To each their own, but I'd walk past 10 dog dished COPOs to see one like the Vitar in race prep. FWIW </div></div>

Amen!!!!!!

[x77-69z28]

What he said!