Aftermarket bumpers and Mirror Location 68 Camaro

[beater68427]

On my 68 I need passenger outside mounting location, I put a new door skin on the passenger side and my old skin was stolen by the metal hounds before I could get the mirror mounting location.

Next does anybody make a good aftermarket bumper? the last set of originals I had chromed was 1300.00 and I was trying to avoid that, so I purchased some AMD "triple chrome new tooling" and it sucks, the drivers side is great but the passenger side is not even the correct contour the radius on the corner is not correct, the brackets are original to the car I compare the AMD to original bumper and the RH side is in 3/8 of a inch at the tip toward body on the AMD

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd132/1972cutlass/AMDbumper_zpsllfozklt.jpg (http://s226.photobucket.com/user/1972cutlass/media/AMDbumper_zpsllfozklt.jpg.html)

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd132/1972cutlass/amdbumper2_zpsrxnrcbda.jpg (http://s226.photobucket.com/user/1972cutlass/media/amdbumper2_zpsrxnrcbda.jpg.html)

[bigsixman]

I am glad that you posted this information because I am bringing my car home from the paint shop today and I have brand new repo bumpers here waiting to install. I unwrapped them when they arrived last week and they appeared excellent. I have the excellent condition original rear bumper, so I will compare the two.

I laid them on top of each other and they appear to be the same. The measurement distance across from the two front tips is 65" for both. The angle radius of the right hand corner bend appears to be fine and does not get tight at the quarter panel.

I wish that I had a good original front bumper to compare with my new repo front.

Good luck with your project.

[beater68427]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bigsixman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am glad that you posted this information because I am bringing my car home from the paint shop today and I have brand new repo bumpers here waiting to install. I unwrapped them when they arrived last week and they appeared excellent. I have the excellent condition original rear bumper, so I will compare the two.

I laid them on top of each other and they appear to be the same. The measurement distance across from the two front tips is 65&quot; for both. The angle radius of the right hand corner bend appears to be fine and does not get tight at the quarter panel.

I wish that I had a good original front bumper to compare with my new repo front.

Good luck with your project.

If yours fit nice let me know what brand I'm perplexed on what to do here, I do not want to say the vendor they didn't make them but haven't called them yet to see what they will do either.




</div></div>

[68l30]

Do the holes in the corner bumper brackets line up?


BIG

[beater68427]

the contour is not even close on the RH side the LH looks fine, bumper will not even go on without damaging the car

[68l30]

I had a issue with a GM bumper years ago due to a previous owner installing patch panels incorrectly. In a nutshell, the quarter stuck out to far...I doubt it's an issue in your case (car looks killer) but, throwing it out there as it's something I've dealt with.

BIG

[beater68427]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 68l30</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I had a issue with a GM bumper years ago due to a previous owner installing patch panels incorrectly. In a nutshell, the quarter stuck out to far...I doubt it's an issue in your case (car looks killer) but, throwing it out there as it's something I've dealt with.

BIG </div></div>

The original bumper fits fine just has some dents and a twist might have to take it in just tired of spending money on this car....

[68l30]

Best bet! Stay away from the repro crap.....looking fwd to seeing this done! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

BIG

[DW31S]

Is the dent or bend in the original near a mounting point? Any possibility that the mounting area or brackets has been &quot;tweaked&quot;. Repro stuff, for the most part, is a &quot;crap shoot&quot; at best. Maybe your new repro isn't as manufactured and somehow got &quot;bent&quot; before you got it. I feel your pain, and empathize with you as I have reluctantly used the &quot;close is good enough&quot; repro stuff. I'd suggest taking your new repro and compare it to another repro and compare the two.

[Lynn]

&quot;just tired of spending money on this car....&quot;

I hear you.

Have to agree with Dave; your bumper may have been damaged before it got to you. Check into sending it back.

[beater68427]

I double check this bumper last night the RH side is bent in, I can measure from the mounting holes to R tip and to the L tip and the RH side is tweaked you can see it just sitting there, As far as returning it I will find out, I sent the retailer a email with pictures with no response I will call them today anything short of them willing to send me a shipping tag Ill just call AMD direct. Summit is starting to sell more item in the restoration field I really need to stick with them on items like this, for another car I ordered a trunk lid it came in with shipping damage I called the tech line at Summit they just sent another told me to keep the first one and had it the next day, and the Firestones came from Summit best price I could find and fast shipping... Ill keep posted on the bumper, in the mean time I still need RH mirror location if anyone has it.

Thanks

[Kurt S]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: beater68427</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I still need RH mirror location if anyone has it. </div></div>
You'll be waiting for a while. No 1st gen came with a pass side mirror from the factory.

[70 copo]

Beater 68427-

This may be helpful:

http://www.hotrod.com/features/1108-vintage-camaro-and-nova-mirrors/

[beater68427]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kurt S</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: beater68427</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I still need RH mirror location if anyone has it. </div></div>
You'll be waiting for a while. No 1st gen came with a pass side mirror from the factory. </div></div>

Never knew that but I have only had a couple first gens and no expert by any means, the car did have one before but if they didn't come with one I will not put one back on, Thanks

[70 copo]

You could get one installed at a dealer. Some states require it.

[Craig_Maiorana]

Was this by chance an OER bumper?

[beater68427]

I normally do not bash a vendor, but I purchased this AMD bumper from Tamraz I have spent thousands there, I just spend 1400.00 that will be the last they will ever get from me, just wasted 20 min on hold and I have also emailed with pictures to get no answer at all, they just told me to hold on again and then transferred me to voice mail....

[Craig_Maiorana]

That's flat out not good. I was just checking to see if it was something from the company I work for. If it was I wanted to try and help. Not that I am denying you assistance either way. I am going to be working on a similar situation so I will be mindful of my results

[beater68427]

I decided to just list it on ebay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/-/191858355033? (http://www.ebay.com/itm/-/191858355033)

[earntaz]

Thats too bad -- I have bought from Tamraz with no issues ... stuff happens.

[Craig_Maiorana]

Stuff does happen. When you deal with outside vendors you have to trust that they are doing their own quality control. I deal with it all day long. When a customer is so upset that they take to the internet then it makes the issue harder to resolve. Like in this case he feels like he got nowhere with them, but he is merely moving on and letting the product go. Sometimes with the aftermarket parts all it takes is some patience and it can be made to work and other times the part can just be completely boogered

[Kurt S]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 70 copo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.hotrod.com/features/1108-vintage-camaro-and-nova-mirrors/ </div></div>
From that link:
&gt;the '67 Camaro mirror head was embossed with a Chevy Bow Tie,
That's incorrect. 67 mirrors are plain, no bowtie.

[70 copo]

Just to clarify since there was no factory passenger side mirror in 1967 if a customer wanted one installed or state law required one to be installed-the period correct and technically the only &quot;correct&quot; GM accessory was part number was 3901862 which was designed as a retrofit for a number of Chevrolet models including the Camaro.

http://www.gmpartswiki.com/w/3901862&amp;book=105

[70 copo]

Here is the accessory mirror and some of the visual detail:

[beater68427]

Thought about the passenger mirror last night, I think I will go ahead and install one on my car, it had one and I know they are small but it would be better than none probably with traffic today. The car itself is nicer than a driver but I plan on driving the crap out of it I've spent a good 6 years on it not to just let it sit....

[beater68427]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Craig_Maiorana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Stuff does happen. When you deal with outside vendors you have to trust that they are doing their own quality control. I deal with it all day long. When a customer is so upset that they take to the internet then it makes the issue harder to resolve. Like in this case he feels like he got nowhere with them, but he is merely moving on and letting the product go. Sometimes with the aftermarket parts all it takes is some patience and it can be made to work and other times the part can just be completely boogered </div></div>

I hear you, I've been in business for 30 years my main business is Trucking and Rigging we specialize in CNC machinery and setting up machine shops we are small I run 10 over the road trucks and two crews setting up machinery, for 10 years I also owned CPM race engines and Performance Marine in AZ and Cole Boats in CA we were a retailer for Dart Hardin Procharger also did R&amp;D for Procharger Crane Holley MSD etc when we had a issue we always listened to the customer and usually just sent them a replacement with a return tag in box the Customer was first and still is, then we dealt with our vendor on our end that was our problem not the customers. Now on this bumper I just asked a simple question to get a run around without any answer for 3 days it is not a money issue but a principle issue for me.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Stupid question, but is it possible to bend it back into place without cracking the chrome?

Also, are the '67 and '68 bumpers the same?

[Charley Lillard]

Beater..send me a business link or such. My Son has a CNC machining business and it maybe you could use you in the future.

[beater68427]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Beater..send me a business link or such. My Son has a CNC machining business and it maybe you could use you in the future. </div></div>

I do not have a web site, here is my FB page
https://www.facebook.com/ER-Lewis-Transportation-Inc-162605310448418/

A video the guys at Silencerco made of us setting them up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4zCjdL4Qoo

CPM still exists here in UT not in AZ anymore and I just manufacture mainly in the marine industry I have retailers and do not do any retail sales.

[68l30]

I can get you some dimensions for a R-H mirror on a 68 ...My 68 had a cheap aftermarket mirror on it when I bought it 30+ years ago. Under the cheap mount was a set of holes that matched the accessory mirror perfect. Can't prove it was dealer installed, but something was always there. Drivers side is remote...My guess is dealer added one.

BIG

[beater68427]

On the mirror I would have imagined even being a dealer installed item there was a template, when I got beater the antenna hole looked like it was cut with a torch, I found a 1968 service part and it has a template for the fender, would there have been one for the mirror?

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r194/3kidsnotime/antenna1_zps75slqatd.jpg (http://s144.photobucket.com/user/3kidsnotime/media/antenna1_zps75slqatd.jpg.html)

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r194/3kidsnotime/antenna_zpswhchrmcr.jpg (http://s144.photobucket.com/user/3kidsnotime/media/antenna_zpswhchrmcr.jpg.html)

[Kurt S]

No state laws required the passenger mirror back then. State law couldn't overrule federal law and it wasn't required federally.

That said, I feel blind getting in a car with only the driver's side mirror...

A template would be a good thing to find.

[70 copo]

Some History is in order:

FEDERAL MOTOR
VEHICLE SAFETY
STANDARDS
(Title 49 Code of Federal
Regulations Part 571)

Standard No. 111 - Rearview Mirrors - Passenger Cars, Multipurpose Passenger Vehicles, Trucks, Buses, School Buses and Motorcycles
(Effective 1-1-68)
This standard specifies requirements for the performance and location of inside and outside rearview mirrors. Its purpose is to reduce the number of deaths and injuries that occur when the driver of a motor vehicle does not have a clear and reasonably unobstructed view to the rear.

The enactment of this standard quickly caused individual states to develop rule making at the state level. This was specific for the usage and design of the vehicle. For example even before the enactment of FMVSS 111:

<span style="font-weight: bold">Alabama</span>
Alabama Vehicle Code, Section 32-5-214
Mirrors.
Every motor vehicle, operated singly or when towing any other vehicle, shall be equipped with a mirror so located as to reflect to the driver a view of the highway for a distance of at least 200 feet to the rear of such motor vehicle. (Acts 1927, No. 347, p. 348; Code 1940, T. 36, §37; Acts 1959, No. 292, p. 860.)

In Alabama towing a simple trailer or having materials stacked up too high in your rear passenger seat could cross up with the law as early as 1959, and land you a citation.

[Kurt S]

There was no state that required passenger side mirrors in 69. None.

FMVSS was developed to provide safety standards and a uniform marketplace to the manufacturers.
The only exception to the federal being *the* rule is with emissions. Since CA regulated emissions before the feds (EPA), they have a special exemption.

[70 copo]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kurt S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There was no state that required passenger side mirrors in 69. None.

FMVSS was developed to provide safety standards and a uniform marketplace to the manufacturers.
The only exception to the federal being *the* rule is with emissions. Since CA regulated emissions before the feds (EPA), they have a special exemption. </div></div>


Sorry I am fresh out of troll food today. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

[Charley Lillard]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 70 copo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kurt S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There was no state that required passenger side mirrors in 69. None.

FMVSS was developed to provide safety standards and a uniform marketplace to the manufacturers.
The only exception to the federal being *the* rule is with emissions. Since CA regulated emissions before the feds (EPA), they have a special exemption. </div></div>


Sorry I am fresh out of troll food today. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif </div></div>

Good. Give it a rest.

[Kurt S]

What's funny is that I did design work on several products that had to conform to the FMVSS, so I'm kinda familiar with it.
No googling required. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

[SS427]

Anyone else ever been told by a vendor that &quot;this is the first time they have ever heard of this complaint&quot; or &quot;you are the only complaint we have heard from&quot; or &quot;we have sold 10,000 of these and NO ONE has ever complained&quot;? The last time I heard that from a vendor I offered to send them the link to the Team Chevelle thread that several dozen people were talking about my particular issue. Listen to the buyers or your products vendors. We can make or break your business.

[beater68427]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SS427</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone else ever been told by a vendor that &quot;this is the first time they have ever heard of this complaint&quot; or &quot;you are the only complaint we have heard from&quot; or &quot;we have sold 10,000 of these and NO ONE has ever complained&quot;? The last time I heard that from a vendor I offered to send them the link to the Team Chevelle thread that several dozen people were talking about my particular issue. Listen to the buyers or your products vendors. We can make or break your business. </div></div>

It is amazing to me after spending thousands with them over the years they just have a not my problem and we do not care attitude. I cant say how I really feel I am quite sure it is against TOS and there may be children around....

[Lynn]

Anyone else ever been told by a vendor that &quot;this is the first time they have ever heard of this complaint&quot; or &quot;you are the only complaint we have heard from&quot; or &quot;we have sold 10,000 of these and NO ONE has ever complained&quot;?

Sound familiar Rick. I think if the first thing you hear from a vendor is &quot;this is rare&quot; or something like you quoted above, it is kind of like the line from Hamlet: &quot;The lady doth protest too much, methinks&quot;. If they feel the need.....

Recently bought a washer pump for the 68 El Camino. Found one made in U.S.A. even. Installed it and it locked the wiper motor. Sent it back after the vendor told me how rare it was for them to have a bad one. Installed the new one. Worked great... except it would not cycle around far enough to shut off!! I had that happen many years ago, and was able to bend the pull arm just enough so it made better contact with the cogs. Still wouldn't work.

I can't sent this one back. I got so mad, I threw in on the floor and broke it into a million pieces. CAN'T ANYONE MAKE PARTS THAT FIT AND WORK AS DESIGNED?

Ordered a Goodmark (made in Taiwan) from Rock Auto. Cost more than the U.S.A. part. Doesn't even look like the pic, and is going back.

So, now that you know I have a temper and am prone to violence against crappy parts, anyone know where I can get a washer pump for a 68 El Camino with the &quot;hidden&quot; wipers?

This hobby can get frustrating, especially when it is the same thing over and over. I am the first to admit that washer pump design was WAAAAAY over engineered, and a simple electric pump would have been cheaper and easier. But really, GM made a few million. No one can make one that fits and works?

[Lynn]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kurt S</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> A template would be a good thing to find. </div></div>

For what it is worth, I used an NOS passenger side GM mirror on my 69 Z, still in the box. No instructions or template included. I realize it COULD have been removed, but doubt there was ever one in there.

[70 copo]

Did an image search--found one dated June 1967. I hope this helps.

[Lynn]

Nice find.

[beater68427]

Nice!!

[70 copo]

Glad to help you! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/flag.gif

[beater68427]

A heads up on my bumper drama, while my efforts dealing with Tamrazs seemed useless a employee there Rob found out about my issues and went above and beyond to make up for the lack of integrity of others, AMD was out of inventory to send a replacement so Rob went through their inventory and did some measuring and sent me a replacement, Thanks Rob and Tamrazs for making this good.

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd132/1972cutlass/68427bumper2_zpsl5tm0voz.jpg (http://s226.photobucket.com/user/1972cutlass/media/68427bumper2_zpsl5tm0voz.jpg.html)

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd132/1972cutlass/68427bumper1_zpsazwtnbrx.png (http://s226.photobucket.com/user/1972cutlass/media/68427bumper1_zpsazwtnbrx.png.html)